Fischella wrote:Papanikolaou has been hurt now that he is back on track he is as good as ever for Oly, he is a candidate for DPOY this season.
Rodriguez was nobody before he left and was the MVP of the EL when he got back and a top5-10 offensive talent in the league for 2-3 years.
UcanUwill wrote:It looks Papanikolaou completely lost his shot since he stepped on NBA court. But his defense has become elite. He picked up a lot training with NBA stars.
Most Euros who come back from the NBA, they come back much better. Training and playing against the best of the best does it for you.
Sergio is a good example. He was truly nobody when he first came to the NBA, came back noticeable better, Euro game was almost too slow for him, he was awesome.
Nando De Colo is another good example. He was decent Euroleague player when he left, but he came back as a dominant superstar.
Macijauskas was a star, but even he came back with a far better ISO skills.
Good recent example is Ognjen Kuzmic, he came back noticeable stronger and tougher.
Thats why coming to the NBA is a good thing, even if you dont stick around, you pick up a lot of things.
Sergio was much worse when he came back to Europe from NBA. Come on...how can anyone say he came back better? Did you see him play that first year back in Europe with Real Madrid? He was really bad, and most people thought his career was over, and he was going to get cut by them soon. He was really bad when he came back. Yeah, he was EuroLeague MVP - four years after that time. No way you can claim that was because of the NBA. So he got worse, then got better, then after 4 years was MVP, and NBA should get credit for that? But NBA had nothing to do with him coming back an awful player his first year back in Europe?
Papanikolaou is worse than he was before. He might be better on defense, but he lost the ability to shoot, and the ability to score more than 3 feet from the basket. And his imporvement on defense is largely because of coach Sfairopoulos and how he uses him. He's too slow to guard 3s and too weak to guard 4s. So Sfairopoulos (probably the best defense coach in Europe), uses him to mainly guard point guards and two guards, and because of his size/length and the true zone behind him, he can excel in that role on defense. He still can't guard athletic 3s one to one at all in open space.
Kuzmic...........did you not see him play with Panathinaikos last year? Dude was straight up ridiculously awful all season. I mean painfully bad the whole year with Panathinaikos.
In the case of Kuzmic and Sergio, they eventually got better. But they definitely came back much worse from the NBA. They improved only after getting rotation minutes in big EuroLeague clubs. They for sure, without any doubt, came back worse from the NBA. The improvement was after getting a rotation role in big EuroLeague teams.
Kuzmic...he was absolutely horrific last year with Panathinaikos - probably the worst center they had in like 20 years. And yes, Sergio was really bad that first year back in Europe with Real. You either didn't see him play then, or you forgot. He was struggling like hell.
De Colo was better, yes, and Maciajuaskas was maybe just slightly better, but no way in the world was that true of those other players. In De Colo's case to be specifically accurate though, he was a bit better his first year back, but he made his big improvement after a year with CSKA. Don't credit him for the last 2 years and say, "NBA made him better" based on just that. You forget, his first year with CSKA - yes, he was better than before, but just slightly. Again, the major improvement for him came after a year in CSKA's rotation.
A lot of this clearly depends on consistent playing time and role. Navarro was the Grizzlies 6th man for a year, and he came back to EuroLeague a bit better than he was before. Conversely, Spanoulis spent a year on the bench in Houston, in Jeff Van Gundy's "doghouse", and he came back to EuroLeague being noticeably worse than he was before. It took Spanoulis about 4-5 years to get back to the level he was at before he originally left for the NBA. So going to the NBA and riding the bench does hurt European players.
jrob23 wrote:but there is. Because Ntilikina is the best player on the floor. Which is in essence what we're debating. I say he's a NBA lottery pick who should be starting in Europe based on talent. You think he's not worth starting over absolute scrubs that would have a tough time making a top college team. Agree to disagree. But when the NBA draft comes around he'll be drafted...not those scrubs starting over him. If that isn't proof enough I don't know what is
You are just repeating a fake and imaginary myth about European basketball. It's something some NBA fans that have never seen a European basketball game made up in their own minds, then kept repeating, and now pass it off as "fact". It's actually one of many myths, or "fake news" if you will, of European basketball that is passed off as being true by some NBA fans..
And no, Ntilikina is not "the best player on the floor." Game 2 of BCL playoffs against Aris was the best game he ever played as a pro, and he most definitely was not the best player on the floor - not even in his best ever game as a pro, was he best player on the floor. These kinds of claims get tedious and ridiculous after awhile.
And again, for the umpteenth time - no one cares about starting or not starting in European basketball. Teams don't have designated starters and bench players. That's American basketball ideology, and it really does not exist in European basketball philosophy. Once again, repeated for the probably dozenth time....numerous EuroLeague MVPs were bench players. Teams don't use a designated and hardly defined starter and bench caste system in Europe. Players generally usually play wherever they play based on match ups. That's it. Why this has to be explained over and over here is very odd.
Finally, you keep making the claim that NCAA college team's players are better than players in first tier professional leagues in Europe....how in the world do you expect anyone here to take your posts seriously when you keep making that absurd claim over and over.
I have a feeling Divac is forcefully going to try recreating the Kings from more than a decade ago and fail while trying to do that. Unfortunately he was hired a year too late, after they already passed on the perfect piece - Jokic. But enough about that, it's off-topic.
