Geometry: The Frank Kaminsky Thread

Vanderbilt_Grad · Post #1821 » by **Vanderbilt_Grad** » Tue Mar 7, 2017 12:30 am

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Yosemiteben posting fake news?

Post #1822 » by **yosemiteben** » Tue Mar 7, 2017 12:31 am

@JustinThomasNBA
I asked Frank Kaminsky about being out for the season, he replied with there's no truth to that, Charlotte expects him back soon #Hornets.

Whoops.

In his pre-game presser Cliff definitely made it sound like he expected to get Frank back this season.

Snidely FC · Post #1823 » by **Snidely FC** » Tue Mar 7, 2017 3:33 am

wasn't wearing a sling tonight

Post #1824 » by **fatlever** » Tue Mar 7, 2017 4:51 am

Frank is the best! Frank commenting on news he is out for the season.

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Post #1825 » by **fatlever** » Tue Mar 7, 2017 7:02 am

Frank with a manbun needs to happen

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SWedd523 · Post #1826 » by **SWedd523** » Tue Mar 7, 2017 2:11 pm

fatlever wrote:Frank with a manbun needs to happen

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Nobody having a man bun needs to happen

Post #1827 » by **fatlever** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:44 pm

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Post #1828 » by **fatlever** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:31 pm

Can we dig deeper into these tweets? Is Frank only at his best when the games are out of range?

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Is this related to Frank being relaxed vs putting too much pressure on himself?... issues we have discussed previously. Are these sample sizes too small to be taken seriously?

Post #1829 » by **yosemiteben** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:15 pm

Well first off I think most offensively gifted players will improve their efficiency when they close out blowout games where the other team is not motivated, so this stat isn't exactly unique to Frank.

The stat does not adequately address the question of whether Frank's offensive performance is acceptable in close games. You are attributing the team's ORTG to Frank as though he is the only one responsible for our offense in those situations. Other stats like his USG%, FG%, FGAs, and assists would be useful in showing how involved he is. If he has a really high USG with low assists and FG%, then yeah he is hurting us. A raw ORTG stat isn't going to tell you that.

I'm not sure how big the data set is for tied games, but guessing not very big.

As for the up 1-5 stat, 106.4 isn't exactly a terrible ORTG, that's pretty much league average for Q4 offense, so I'm not sure what the point is there.

To me this is the sort of lazy twitter analysis I've come to expect from that source.

316Hornets · Post #1830 » by **316Hornets** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:56 pm

Frank has the 2nd worst fg% in OT games this year, only behind Kemba. So, I guess pressure could be a problem there. His fg% in OT games was even worse last year.

Post #1831 » by **yosemiteben** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:04 pm

316Hornets wrote:Frank has the 2nd worst fg% in OT games this year, only behind Kemba.

4 game sample size though.

Mystical Apples · Post #1832 » by **Mystical Apples** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:07 pm

fatlever wrote:Can we dig deeper into these tweets? Is Frank only at his best when the games are out of range?

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Is this related to Frank being relaxed vs putting too much pressure on himself?... issues we have discussed previously. Are these sample sizes too small to be taken seriously?

Good job, good effort on the bro-tastic data mining. The best is "proof in this pudding" which is the non-technical term for "analytically adjacent."

Mystical Apples · Post #1833 » by **Mystical Apples** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:13 pm

316Hornets wrote:Frank has the 2nd worst fg% in OT games this year, only behind Kemba. So, I guess pressure could be a problem there. His fg% in OT games was even worse last year.

At home or away?

316Hornets · Post #1834 » by **316Hornets** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:19 pm

Mystical Apples wrote:
316Hornets wrote:Frank has the 2nd worst fg% in OT games this year, only behind Kemba. So, I guess pressure could be a problem there. His fg% in OT games was even worse last year.

At home or away?

3 games away shot 20% on 1/5(all 2 pointers).
1 game home shot 50% on 1/2.

Not a big sample, but these are the most important minutes of a game.

Last year in OT,
0/2 on the road
1/2 at home.

Post #1835 » by **fatlever** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:28 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Well first off I think most offensively gifted players will improve their efficiency when they close out blowout games where the other team is not motivated, so this stat isn't exactly unique to Frank.

The stat does not adequately address the question of whether Frank's offensive performance is acceptable in close games. You are attributing the team's ORTG to Frank as though he is the only one responsible for our offense in those situations. Other stats like his USG%, FG%, FGAs, and assists would be useful in showing how involved he is. If he has a really high USG with low assists and FG%, then yeah he is hurting us. A raw ORTG stat isn't going to tell you that.

I'm not sure how big the data set is for tied games, but guessing not very big.

As for the up 1-5 stat, 106.4 isn't exactly a terrible ORTG, that's pretty much league average for Q4 offense, so I'm not sure what the point is there.

To me this is the sort of lazy twitter analysis I've come to expect from that source.

Thanks YB. This is basically what I was thinking when I posted those tweets, hence why I was hoping for you guys to dig a little deeper. One reason twitter can't replace forums when it comes to this type of discussion. Not enough room to really get to the bottom of what is happening.

Mystical Apples · Post #1836 » by **Mystical Apples** » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:36 pm

yosemiteben wrote:Well first off I think most offensively gifted players will improve their efficiency when they close out blowout games where the other team is not motivated, so this stat isn't exactly unique to Frank.

The stat does not adequately address the question of whether Frank's offensive performance is acceptable in close games. You are attributing the team's ORTG to Frank as though he is the only one responsible for our offense in those situations.

I'm not sure how big the data set is for tied games, but guessing not very big.

To me this is the sort of lazy twitter analysis I've come to expect from that source.

I mean, why use "tied" which also includes 0-0 to begin games and then compound that selective sample with ORtg?

Here are "tied" stats to show how silly this narrative is (at least 35 "tied" attempts).

FGA: 35
FG: 42.9% (1st CHA)
3P: 47.9% (1st CHA, 20th NBA)
eFG: 52.9% (1st CHA, 38th NBA)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pi/shareit/x47SJ

Post #1837 » by **fatlever** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:32 pm

Fluff piece on Frank

http://fansided.com/2017/03/30/frank-kaminsky-charlotte-hornets-improvement/

Post #1838 » by **Diop** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:42 pm

overall are we happy though that we have seen these glimpses from a 2nd year player?

can consistency come?

316Hornets · Post #1839 » by **316Hornets** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:23 pm

Diop wrote:overall are we happy though that we have seen these glimpses from a 2nd year player?

can consistency come?

Overall, the progress Kaminsky has made is promising. There are many players that have performed not nearly as well, most notably the guy we took the year before at #9, Noah Vonleh. The key to Frank improving into a consistent starter is to improve his fg%. We've seen glimpses of what he can do and what's shocking is that he is shooting 37% at home while 42% on the road. If he could somehow find his groove at home, this team could really excel.

A guy that I can compare Kaminsky to is Jimmy Butler. He started his career with low fg% and has turned it around remarkably. He also is shooting 42% at home and 48% on the road this year.

Braggins · Post #1840 » by **Braggins** » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:35 pm

I'm still worried about Frank considering he is a few days away from turning 24 and still shooting 40/32/75 splits with fairly modest production. I feel like next season is super important for him and he needs to establish himself as more than a role player asap. Hes already a nice player, but we need more than that. I'd love to see him become a 15/6/3 guy on something 45/36/78 shooting splits next season.