Game 62: Utah Jazz (38-24) @ Sacramento Kings (25-36) - 6:00 PM ET

[benchmobbin02]

I am a bit angry that the Kings are playing all our vets instead of giving alot more time to Skal etc.
I understand why they are doing it . You cannot as long as your in contention for a playoff spot basically tell your vets , your overall fan base that your throwing the towel in already. If you do that you anger a lot of the fan base and your current vets , not to mention any future free agent you may want to sign for later .
That said if the Kings have any vets right now that you are not looking to keep next season and so forth then the Kings should be sitting those players or give them a ton less playing time while giving our young bloods a lot more playing time .
They really need to put current players on the floor now they have that they project to be on our roster next season .

Based on that I would start the following :

Collison
Hield or Ben
Temple
Skal
Stein


Bench being :

Ben or Hield
Richardson ( if he was not injured I would remove 1 of Hield , Ben or Skal to the Bench ) If I was playing small ball & wanting a fast pace playing style of game .
Tolliver
Papa
Lawson
Tyreke
Koufas
Galloway
Gay ( out )
Aflallo


Our next 10 games are :

9:00 pm ET
Today at DEN
PREVIEW
8:30 pm ET
Wed Mar 8 at SA
10:30 pm ET
Fri Mar 10 WAS
10:30 pm ET
Sat Mar 11 DEN
10:30 pm ET
Mon Mar 13 ORL
10:00 pm ET
Wed Mar 15 at PHO
3:00 pm ET
Sat Mar 18 at OKC
7:00 pm ET
Sun Mar 19 at SA
10:30 pm ET
Wed Mar 22 MIL
10:30 pm ET
Fri Mar 24 at GS


20 games remaining . Tied for the 9th worst record .
3 games behind the 8th seed whom we are playing today via conference.
1 1/2 games behind the 9th seed via conference .
1/2 game behind the 10th seed via our conference .
We are tied for the 11th seed via our conference whom is Minn however they are highly doubtful to get the 8th seed based on games behind plus having only 8 more home games versus 12 more away games . That will be really tough .

My point is I really hope Ownership & Management do not wait to much longer to play the younger players far , far more & put the line up on the floor that you are most projecting for next year . If you do that then the chemistry between those players will already be developing to play greater as a team next year .
All of this preparing for next season and in the same breath getting our 2 x #1 picks this season. Which have a ton of value .
I hope they listen ?

The mistake you guys are making is thinking that playing them more minutes is how you develop them when in reality it's one part in 12-15 step process and we as fans only every get to see that one step, maybe a peak at a few others.

Your response made no sense at all as far as the second part of your statement .
You mention you guys think as if everyone is wrong and you are right . I honestly do not think you know nearly as much as you say you do . I do not think you have a grasp from the business side of things or the understanding to what better serves the KINGS .
You mention a 12-15 step process that is nonsense their is no 12-15 step process .
Their are many different ways a player can learn to better their craft as well as understanding of the game and maturity .Their is no 12-15 step process . Again I am not saying rush any player to play whom is not ready . These guys are ready and hungry for more minutes . Give them more minutes that only helps them in turn helps us .
Anyways Skal only played what a minute last night while fully healthy .
Sorry even if your giving vets more playing time you find a way at this point to get him at least 10-15 minutes a game unless injured.
I am not hard up to let all our youngs to have all the playing time however again Skal , Willy , Buddy , Malachi if healthy all should be getting 10-20 minutes in Stein's case I say even more 25-32 minutes a game .

No I mentioned you guys in the same senses that you and others state your opinion. It's the same thing you do just with a different opinion.

I think I could have used a different term to describe what I meant. You seem to have been tripped up by the 12 step process term. My meaning is that playing minutes in a game is just one part in a multi part plan to develop these players. Not necessarily the last part. If that is what you thought I meant then I should have been more clear.

The clip Tree's pointed out clearly points to Coach having a solid plan to slowly bring along the young guys, especially Skal. It's a process that changes as the player and the matchup does. Saying you think they are ready for minutes is one thing. Of course they want to be on the floor and they do some good things when they are out there at times. But saying they should get a certain # of minutes every night is stating that you know better than coach what is good for their development. Like I said before and I will even expand on, it's like a grade schooler that can only see 1/4 of the chalkboard thinking they know more than a mathematician in a calculus class.

[SacKingZZZ]

Joerger was a D league coach and a part of the development in Memphis. At this point who am I to question his decisions? I'd like to see the young guys get more minutes but I also agree with Joerger that you can't just hand the keys over, and increasing their workload over a stretched out period of time can be beneficial in comparison to throwing a guy to the wolves.

Skal playing 1 minute? Was the matchup that lopsided for Skal? In the end Joerger will be proven right or wrong. Hope he's right.

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When a player like Skal is going above and beyond in games despite his lack of polish you don't cut his minutes in favor of trying to gut out a win on the backs of Anthony Tolliver or Kosta Koufos. Or if you do, you do it once as a testament to their character and effort. Dave Joerger has proven to squeeze blood out of a turnip before but this is just crazy stuff. They are still trying to make the playoffs and it's understandable I guess. But the question is, at what point do they finally give it up and put in the work that will hopefully make this team better next year? There was a complete blowout the other night and he didn't even put Papagiannis in until like the final 2 minutes.

We've seen in the past the Kings just spin in the same spot with coaches that gave the younger players at the time all of about a week at the end of the year to get it going. The experience they can gain in these last 20 games could be invaluable. I eagerly await the turning over of the mantle because that's the only hope this team has moving forward.

Obviously, Dave has a plan to bring these guys along and doesn't care what fans think. And he shouldn't he is he one that has developed guys before. He is the one that has direct contact with the players and watches practice and work ethic. He is the one that assigns workouts and drills and film study. And he is the one that know NBA matchup. Questioning his approach is like a grade schooler questioning a mathematician in calculus class.

We have direct contact in watching the games so it's hard to sell me on calculus when it looks like your ABC's. I think Dave is a good coach but whoever is in charge of getting the rebuild on the fast track needs to get it on the fast track. The more they make mistakes in game now, the less they may make in the future. Sorry, I can't trust this team with the "They'll get better by watching the game" mantra. Yeah, that worked for Ben McLemore. There's a good example of too little, too late right there.

[benchmobbin02]

When a player like Skal is going above and beyond in games despite his lack of polish you don't cut his minutes in favor of trying to gut out a win on the backs of Anthony Tolliver or Kosta Koufos. Or if you do, you do it once as a testament to their character and effort. Dave Joerger has proven to squeeze blood out of a turnip before but this is just crazy stuff. They are still trying to make the playoffs and it's understandable I guess. But the question is, at what point do they finally give it up and put in the work that will hopefully make this team better next year? There was a complete blowout the other night and he didn't even put Papagiannis in until like the final 2 minutes.

We've seen in the past the Kings just spin in the same spot with coaches that gave the younger players at the time all of about a week at the end of the year to get it going. The experience they can gain in these last 20 games could be invaluable. I eagerly await the turning over of the mantle because that's the only hope this team has moving forward.

Obviously, Dave has a plan to bring these guys along and doesn't care what fans think. And he shouldn't he is he one that has developed guys before. He is the one that has direct contact with the players and watches practice and work ethic. He is the one that assigns workouts and drills and film study. And he is the one that know NBA matchup. Questioning his approach is like a grade schooler questioning a mathematician in calculus class.

We have direct contact in watching the games so it's hard to sell me on calculus when it looks like your ABC's. I think Dave is a good coach but whoever is in charge of getting the rebuild on the fast track needs to get it on the fast track. The more they make mistakes in game now, the less they may make in the future. Sorry, I can't trust this team with the "They'll get better by watching the game" mantra. Yeah, that worked for Ben McLemore. There's a good example of too little, too late right there.

You're highlighting my point. Going off of in game play only as fans is an incomplete and flawed judgement when the coaches and player development and management have a 360 degree view.

Whoever said that the rebuild was gonna be or should be a fast tracked. That is a trap that fans want to force on orgs, when in reality it takes time to develop players and better yet a team to really compete if your going the rebuild route.

Equating Ben's development or lack there of to these current rookies is apples to oranges. A completely different decision making and support structure is supervising the process.

[SacKingZZZ]

Obviously, Dave has a plan to bring these guys along and doesn't care what fans think. And he shouldn't he is he one that has developed guys before. He is the one that has direct contact with the players and watches practice and work ethic. He is the one that assigns workouts and drills and film study. And he is the one that know NBA matchup. Questioning his approach is like a grade schooler questioning a mathematician in calculus class.

We have direct contact in watching the games so it's hard to sell me on calculus when it looks like your ABC's. I think Dave is a good coach but whoever is in charge of getting the rebuild on the fast track needs to get it on the fast track. The more they make mistakes in game now, the less they may make in the future. Sorry, I can't trust this team with the "They'll get better by watching the game" mantra. Yeah, that worked for Ben McLemore. There's a good example of too little, too late right there.

You're highlighting my point. Going off of in game play only as fans is an incomplete and flawed judgement when the coaches and player development and management have a 360 degree view.

Whoever said that the rebuild was gonna be or should be a fast tracked. That is a trap that fans want to force on orgs, when in reality it takes time to develop players and better yet a team to really compete if your going the rebuild route.

Equating Ben's development or lack there of to these current rookies is apples to oranges. A completely different decision making and support structure is supervising the process.

No, it's a trap we've seen forced on fans before and it didn't work, won't work, and doesn't work. Even on the pregame they are talking about how many of these players are auditioning for other teams. How does that in any way help the Kings moving forward? If you believe players are better off not actually playing against competition then that's fine but I couldn't disagree more and have given a specific example on the team currently as to the lasting negative effects of doing do. There is only so much time before these players come off their rookie deals (Gee, think I've said that before) so there really is only about a 2-3 year window before you have to start deciding what's what, where you are going. and who's going with you.

[benchmobbin02]

We have direct contact in watching the games so it's hard to sell me on calculus when it looks like your ABC's. I think Dave is a good coach but whoever is in charge of getting the rebuild on the fast track needs to get it on the fast track. The more they make mistakes in game now, the less they may make in the future. Sorry, I can't trust this team with the "They'll get better by watching the game" mantra. Yeah, that worked for Ben McLemore. There's a good example of too little, too late right there.

You're highlighting my point. Going off of in game play only as fans is an incomplete and flawed judgement when the coaches and player development and management have a 360 degree view.

Whoever said that the rebuild was gonna be or should be a fast tracked. That is a trap that fans want to force on orgs, when in reality it takes time to develop players and better yet a team to really compete if your going the rebuild route.

Equating Ben's development or lack there of to these current rookies is apples to oranges. A completely different decision making and support structure is supervising the process.

No, it's a trap we've seen forced on fans before and it didn't work, won't work, and doesn't work. Even on the pregame they are talking about how many of these players are auditioning for other teams. How does that in any way help the Kings moving forward? If you believe players are better off not actually playing against competition then that's fine but I couldn't disagree more and have given a specific example on the team currently as to the lasting negative effects of doing do. There is only so much time before these players come off their rookie deals (Gee, think I've said that before) so there really is only about a 2-3 year window before you have to start deciding what's what, where you are going. and who's going with you.

So what you're saying is that you believe you know how to develop a 19-20 yr old player better that Dave Joerger.

I disagree strongly.

[sacking123]

Some really good points here.
I agree with Benchmobbin in that actual playing time is only one part of Joergers plan. I'm sure he is communicating things to the young guys so I'm happy with that I guess.
However I'm a little impatient too and I believe there is room to give these young guys more of an opportunity NOW, not next year when we have potentially 4 rookies on the roster.
The main reason for this is the vets now get to utilise this team as their own platform for playing somewhere else next season. And the blame for this has to sit with Vlade. He wanted to start again, but he only did half the job at the deadline. At the minimum he should have gotten rid of AA and one of the PGs, Collison if it were me.
KK should have been gone too, however I realise he is a good team guy.
This is the source of the most frustration I believe, there is more, but I won't go into yet


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[SacKingZZZ]

You're highlighting my point. Going off of in game play only as fans is an incomplete and flawed judgement when the coaches and player development and management have a 360 degree view.

Whoever said that the rebuild was gonna be or should be a fast tracked. That is a trap that fans want to force on orgs, when in reality it takes time to develop players and better yet a team to really compete if your going the rebuild route.

Equating Ben's development or lack there of to these current rookies is apples to oranges. A completely different decision making and support structure is supervising the process.

No, it's a trap we've seen forced on fans before and it didn't work, won't work, and doesn't work. Even on the pregame they are talking about how many of these players are auditioning for other teams. How does that in any way help the Kings moving forward? If you believe players are better off not actually playing against competition then that's fine but I couldn't disagree more and have given a specific example on the team currently as to the lasting negative effects of doing do. There is only so much time before these players come off their rookie deals (Gee, think I've said that before) so there really is only about a 2-3 year window before you have to start deciding what's what, where you are going. and who's going with you.

So what you're saying is that you believe you know how to develop a 19-20 yr old player better that Dave Joerger.

I disagree strongly.

Where did I say that? I was fairly specific in what I said above and my opinion on the matter.

[City of Trees]

We need our own "trust the process" saying around here.

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[SacKingZZZ]

Some really good points here.
I agree with Benchmobbin in that actual playing time is only one part of Joergers plan. I'm sure he is communicating things to the young guys so I'm happy with that I guess.
However I'm a little impatient too and I believe there is room to give these young guys more of an opportunity NOW, not next year when we have potentially 4 rookies on the roster.
The main reason for this is the vets now get to utilise this team as their own platform for playing somewhere else next season. And the blame for this has to sit with Vlade. He wanted to start again, but he only did half the job at the deadline. At the minimum he should have gotten rid of AA and one of the PGs, Collison if it were me.
KK should have been gone too, however I realise he is a good team guy.
This is the source of the most frustration I believe, there is more, but I won't go into yet


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

And that is probably the biggest source of my personal frustration. I heard the same arguments being posed above before, so what's to say it turns out different this time.

Also, the argument is coming after a game where a tight rotation which included the most extreme version of young player crunching possible. The Kings still lost, the Kings are still playing individuals that most likely won't be here next year, and you still have valuable in game experience wasted.

Unless of course Benchmobbin is standing behind his view that in game experience is worthless.

[benchmobbin02]

No, it's a trap we've seen forced on fans before and it didn't work, won't work, and doesn't work. Even on the pregame they are talking about how many of these players are auditioning for other teams. How does that in any way help the Kings moving forward? If you believe players are better off not actually playing against competition then that's fine but I couldn't disagree more and have given a specific example on the team currently as to the lasting negative effects of doing do. There is only so much time before these players come off their rookie deals (Gee, think I've said that before) so there really is only about a 2-3 year window before you have to start deciding what's what, where you are going. and who's going with you.

So what you're saying is that you believe you know how to develop a 19-20 yr old player better that Dave Joerger.

I disagree strongly.

Where did I say that? I was fairly specific in what I said above and my opinion on the matter.

Cop out.

The things that you are finding fault with (playing time, fast tracking rebuild) are his plan so yes that is what you are saying.

You can't have it both ways.

[benchmobbin02]

Some really good points here.
I agree with Benchmobbin in that actual playing time is only one part of Joergers plan. I'm sure he is communicating things to the young guys so I'm happy with that I guess.
However I'm a little impatient too and I believe there is room to give these young guys more of an opportunity NOW, not next year when we have potentially 4 rookies on the roster.
The main reason for this is the vets now get to utilise this team as their own platform for playing somewhere else next season. And the blame for this has to sit with Vlade. He wanted to start again, but he only did half the job at the deadline. At the minimum he should have gotten rid of AA and one of the PGs, Collison if it were me.
KK should have been gone too, however I realise he is a good team guy.
This is the source of the most frustration I believe, there is more, but I won't go into yet


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

And that is probably the biggest source of my personal frustration. I heard the same arguments being posed above before, so what's to say it turns out different this time.

Also, the argument is coming after a game where a tight rotation which included the most extreme version of young player crunching possible. The Kings still lost, the Kings are still playing individuals that most likely won't be here next year, and you still have valuable in game experience wasted.

Unless of course Benchmobbin is standing behind his view that in game experience is worthless.

There are two different issues at play here.

Your issue with vets that you believe won't be on the team next year getting time.

and

The coach developing the young guys as at the correct pace as he sees fit. Sometimes that will involve 20 mins a game and sometimes it will be less.

I think that Coach is thinking more about the development of the youth more than getting the vets more time to audition for other teams.

[SacKingZZZ]

So what you're saying is that you believe you know how to develop a 19-20 yr old player better that Dave Joerger.

I disagree strongly.

Where did I say that? I was fairly specific in what I said above and my opinion on the matter.

Cop out.

The things that you are finding fault with (playing time, fast tracking rebuild) are his plan so yes that is what you are saying.

You can't have it both ways.

Cop out? No, per usual there is too much inference on your end in an attempt to support your claim, a claim that doesn't entirely even exist. Just because you disagree with a specific aspect of what a coach is doing doesn't mean you dismiss everything they are doing. He may be doing a bang up job on developing them in practice, but I'm saying IMO he could be doing a much better job developing them IN GAME by allowing them more consistent playing time. Nothing more, nothing less.

And if I'm "copping out" point out where I said I know how to "develop a 19-20 yr old player better that Dave Joerger". The onus is on you my friend.

[benchmobbin02]

Where did I say that? I was fairly specific in what I said above and my opinion on the matter.

Cop out.

The things that you are finding fault with (playing time, fast tracking rebuild) are his plan so yes that is what you are saying.

You can't have it both ways.

Cop out? No, per usual there is too much inference on your end in an attempt to support your claim, a claim that doesn't entirely even exist. Just because you disagree with a specific aspect of what a coach is doing doesn't mean you dismiss everything they are doing. He may be doing a bang up job on developing them in practice, but I'm saying IMO he could be doing a much better job developing them IN GAME by allowing them more consistent playing time. Nothing more, nothing less.

And if I'm "copping out" point out where I said I know how to "develop a 19-20 yr old player better that Dave Joerger". The onus is on you my friend.

I'll take the onus and I'm glad you clarified your position. But I'm sure Coach Joerger know much better than you the needs of the young players in ALL ASPECTS....which was my point.

[dozencousins]

The mistake you guys are making is thinking that playing them more minutes is how you develop them when in reality it's one part in 12-15 step process and we as fans only every get to see that one step, maybe a peak at a few others.

Your response made no sense at all as far as the second part of your statement .
You mention you guys think as if everyone is wrong and you are right . I honestly do not think you know nearly as much as you say you do . I do not think you have a grasp from the business side of things or the understanding to what better serves the KINGS .
You mention a 12-15 step process that is nonsense their is no 12-15 step process .
Their are many different ways a player can learn to better their craft as well as understanding of the game and maturity .Their is no 12-15 step process . Again I am not saying rush any player to play whom is not ready . These guys are ready and hungry for more minutes . Give them more minutes that only helps them in turn helps us .
Anyways Skal only played what a minute last night while fully healthy .
Sorry even if your giving vets more playing time you find a way at this point to get him at least 10-15 minutes a game unless injured.
I am not hard up to let all our youngs to have all the playing time however again Skal , Willy , Buddy , Malachi if healthy all should be getting 10-20 minutes in Stein's case I say even more 25-32 minutes a game .

No I mentioned you guys in the same senses that you and others state your opinion. It's the same thing you do just with a different opinion.

I think I could have used a different term to describe what I meant. You seem to have been tripped up by the 12 step process term. My meaning is that playing minutes in a game is just one part in a multi part plan to develop these players. Not necessarily the last part. If that is what you thought I meant then I should have been more clear.

The clip Tree's pointed out clearly points to Coach having a solid plan to slowly bring along the young guys, especially Skal. It's a process that changes as the player and the matchup does. Saying you think they are ready for minutes is one thing. Of course they want to be on the floor and they do some good things when they are out there at times. But saying they should get a certain # of minutes every night is stating that you know better than coach what is good for their development. Like I said before and I will even expand on, it's like a grade schooler that can only see 1/4 of the chalkboard thinking they know more than a mathematician in a calculus class.

First to be clear my opinions are always just that Mine .
I never just agree with anyone to be in a majority.
If I feel I am right and everyone else disagrees the so be it .

All that said now . I see what you saying more clearly . However I think the bottom line really is we need to play the players that the Kings see as key players to our future next season and there after without going overboard .
Give these guys real game experience in real time with a good amount of minutes . This means even if for now that they do not match up well . Skal is doing great . It would be beneficial to him working on his moves etc. , getting used to opposing players , If he gets out muscled fine that should tell him more internally that he needs to add muscle and some weight to his frame . That would be motivation to do even better .
I am not implying he is a future Karl Malone but to use him as an example . He came into the league being a bigger name player with a higher expectation and overall he lived up to it . However when Malone came into the league he scored but his frame was much thinner and later he bulked up and exploded to be a much greater player . Skal can do that as well . Stein & Skal need to both be feed alot of minutes in Skal's case at least 20 minutes nightly and in some case 30 + . Stein needs at least 25 minutes but in most cases 32 minutes or more . These are 2 of our bigs that will be focal points to this team in the near future .
We need to feed these guys a lot of minutes . When healthy this goes for Malachi . Buddy has to be given a lot of minutes .
I am only concerned about any current vets we have that we intend to keep . If we are not keeping them then it's a business and move on from them especially as we approach being completely eliminated from the payoff picture .

19 games remaining we are 4 back with 3 -4 other teams in front of us as well .
I think we are done now . But for argument sake if we get 6 games back from the playoffs . I say Kings should only play vets whom we do not plan to keep at all or very limited minutes were as giving our immediate future players the bulk of the minutes .

[benchmobbin02]

Your response made no sense at all as far as the second part of your statement .
You mention you guys think as if everyone is wrong and you are right . I honestly do not think you know nearly as much as you say you do . I do not think you have a grasp from the business side of things or the understanding to what better serves the KINGS .
You mention a 12-15 step process that is nonsense their is no 12-15 step process .
Their are many different ways a player can learn to better their craft as well as understanding of the game and maturity .Their is no 12-15 step process . Again I am not saying rush any player to play whom is not ready . These guys are ready and hungry for more minutes . Give them more minutes that only helps them in turn helps us .
Anyways Skal only played what a minute last night while fully healthy .
Sorry even if your giving vets more playing time you find a way at this point to get him at least 10-15 minutes a game unless injured.
I am not hard up to let all our youngs to have all the playing time however again Skal , Willy , Buddy , Malachi if healthy all should be getting 10-20 minutes in Stein's case I say even more 25-32 minutes a game .

No I mentioned you guys in the same senses that you and others state your opinion. It's the same thing you do just with a different opinion.

I think I could have used a different term to describe what I meant. You seem to have been tripped up by the 12 step process term. My meaning is that playing minutes in a game is just one part in a multi part plan to develop these players. Not necessarily the last part. If that is what you thought I meant then I should have been more clear.

The clip Tree's pointed out clearly points to Coach having a solid plan to slowly bring along the young guys, especially Skal. It's a process that changes as the player and the matchup does. Saying you think they are ready for minutes is one thing. Of course they want to be on the floor and they do some good things when they are out there at times. But saying they should get a certain # of minutes every night is stating that you know better than coach what is good for their development. Like I said before and I will even expand on, it's like a grade schooler that can only see 1/4 of the chalkboard thinking they know more than a mathematician in a calculus class.

First to be clear my opinions are always just that Mine .
I never just agree with anyone to be in a majority.
If I feel I am right and everyone else disagrees the so be it .

All that said now . I see what you saying more clearly . However I think the bottom line really is we need to play the players that the Kings see as key players to our future next season and there after without going overboard .
Give these guys real game experience in real time with a good amount of minutes . This means even if for now that they do not match up well . Skal is doing great . It would be beneficial to him working on his moves etc. , getting used to opposing players , If he gets out muscled fine that should tell him more internally that he needs to add muscle and some weight to his frame . That would be motivation to do even better .
I am not implying he is a future Karl Malone but to use him as an example . He came into the league being a bigger name player with a higher expectation and overall he lived up to it . However when Malone came into the league he scored but his frame was much thinner and later he bulked up and exploded to be a much greater player . Skal can do that as well . Stein & Skal need to both be feed alot of minutes in Skal's case at least 20 minutes nightly and in some case 30 + . Stein needs at least 25 minutes but in most cases 32 minutes or more . These are 2 of our bigs that will be focal points to this team in the near future .
We need to feed these guys a lot of minutes . When healthy this goes for Malachi . Buddy has to be given a lot of minutes .
I am only concerned about any current vets we have that we intend to keep . If we are not keeping them then it's a business and move on from them especially as we approach being completely eliminated from the payoff picture .

19 games remaining we are 4 back with 3 -4 other teams in front of us as well .
I think we are done now . But for argument sake if we get 6 games back from the playoffs . I say Kings should only play vets whom we do not plan to keep at all or very limited minutes were as giving our immediate future players the bulk of the minutes .

I understand all the points and opinions you guys are making but let's say I'm Vivek. I watch alot of basketball but in no way am I a professional in any sense of the sport (playing, coaching, managing or developing). Who do you think I should trust on the right pace, matchups, minutes and alignments I should use my young players in? Coach Joerger and staff or the fanbase?

Pretty simple.

And BTW the minutes for the young players have increased. This whole discussion really heated up when Skal played limited minutes in the Utah game. We don't know the reason for that, whether it was fatigue, resting an injury, discipline, player/lockerroom management or what. But what has been clear, beside a few exceptions, is that the minutes in the last 5 games are being spread around much more than previously. All the main guys are getting around 20 mins a game, besides WCS and the point guards, who are getting more. It's a step toward what you guys are saying you want for our young player. I see this as a smart coach managing his lockerroom and the team he has. It can't be easy.

[sacking123]

No I mentioned you guys in the same senses that you and others state your opinion. It's the same thing you do just with a different opinion.

I think I could have used a different term to describe what I meant. You seem to have been tripped up by the 12 step process term. My meaning is that playing minutes in a game is just one part in a multi part plan to develop these players. Not necessarily the last part. If that is what you thought I meant then I should have been more clear.

The clip Tree's pointed out clearly points to Coach having a solid plan to slowly bring along the young guys, especially Skal. It's a process that changes as the player and the matchup does. Saying you think they are ready for minutes is one thing. Of course they want to be on the floor and they do some good things when they are out there at times. But saying they should get a certain # of minutes every night is stating that you know better than coach what is good for their development. Like I said before and I will even expand on, it's like a grade schooler that can only see 1/4 of the chalkboard thinking they know more than a mathematician in a calculus class.

First to be clear my opinions are always just that Mine .
I never just agree with anyone to be in a majority.
If I feel I am right and everyone else disagrees the so be it .

All that said now . I see what you saying more clearly . However I think the bottom line really is we need to play the players that the Kings see as key players to our future next season and there after without going overboard .
Give these guys real game experience in real time with a good amount of minutes . This means even if for now that they do not match up well . Skal is doing great . It would be beneficial to him working on his moves etc. , getting used to opposing players , If he gets out muscled fine that should tell him more internally that he needs to add muscle and some weight to his frame . That would be motivation to do even better .
I am not implying he is a future Karl Malone but to use him as an example . He came into the league being a bigger name player with a higher expectation and overall he lived up to it . However when Malone came into the league he scored but his frame was much thinner and later he bulked up and exploded to be a much greater player . Skal can do that as well . Stein & Skal need to both be feed alot of minutes in Skal's case at least 20 minutes nightly and in some case 30 + . Stein needs at least 25 minutes but in most cases 32 minutes or more . These are 2 of our bigs that will be focal points to this team in the near future .
We need to feed these guys a lot of minutes . When healthy this goes for Malachi . Buddy has to be given a lot of minutes .
I am only concerned about any current vets we have that we intend to keep . If we are not keeping them then it's a business and move on from them especially as we approach being completely eliminated from the payoff picture .

19 games remaining we are 4 back with 3 -4 other teams in front of us as well .
I think we are done now . But for argument sake if we get 6 games back from the playoffs . I say Kings should only play vets whom we do not plan to keep at all or very limited minutes were as giving our immediate future players the bulk of the minutes .

I understand all the points and opinions you guys are making but let's say I'm Vivek. I watch alot of basketball but in no way am I a professional in any sense of the sport (playing, coaching, managing or developing). Who do you think I should trust on the right pace, matchups, minutes and alignments I should use my young players in? Coach Joerger and staff or the fanbase?

Pretty simple.

And BTW the minutes for the young players have increased. This whole discussion really heated up when Skal played limited minutes in the Utah game. We don't know the reason for that, whether it was fatigue, resting an injury, discipline, player/lockerroom management or what. But what has been clear, beside a few exceptions, is that the minutes in the last 5 games are being spread around much more than previously. All the main guys are getting around 20 mins a game, besides WCS and the point guards, who are getting more. It's a step toward what you guys are saying you want for our young player. I see this as a smart coach managing his lockerroom and the team he has. It can't be easy.

That's a pretty poor argument.
"I watch alot of basketball but in no way am I a professional in any sense of the sport (playing, coaching, managing or developing). Who do you think I should trust on the right pace, matchups, minutes and alignments I should use my young players in? Coach Joerger and staff or the fanbase?"
Just because Joerger is doing it a certain way doesn't mean he is doing it correctly. Same goes for anyone on here stating their way is the only way.
The fact is there are many ways to start this rebuild, Joerger has his and while IMO he is doing a lot right, he is doing a lot, let's say differently. If these vets are busting their asses in practise just like the young guys are being asked to then no worries with some playing time. I can certainly see DC doing that.
They are being taught how to be a professional, however in my experience as a player, coach and administrator young players all react differently to getting increased mins and then playing well or poorly. It's a case by case basis.
The thing is, the coaching staff, at this point in time, hasn't let them off the leash to find out. That is frustrating.


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[codydaze]

With regards to playing young guys, I look at how Joerger brought Jamychal Green. You could say it's a little bit of a different situation because Memphis was actually having success but Green didn't get a lot of time even though fans wanted him to start getting more time over ZBo. Now he's a really solid player and starter for Memphis. Does he have the same sort of development if he's thrown into the fire right away? Impossible to tell but his approach at least seems to work.

[benchmobbin02]

First to be clear my opinions are always just that Mine .
I never just agree with anyone to be in a majority.
If I feel I am right and everyone else disagrees the so be it .

All that said now . I see what you saying more clearly . However I think the bottom line really is we need to play the players that the Kings see as key players to our future next season and there after without going overboard .
Give these guys real game experience in real time with a good amount of minutes . This means even if for now that they do not match up well . Skal is doing great . It would be beneficial to him working on his moves etc. , getting used to opposing players , If he gets out muscled fine that should tell him more internally that he needs to add muscle and some weight to his frame . That would be motivation to do even better .
I am not implying he is a future Karl Malone but to use him as an example . He came into the league being a bigger name player with a higher expectation and overall he lived up to it . However when Malone came into the league he scored but his frame was much thinner and later he bulked up and exploded to be a much greater player . Skal can do that as well . Stein & Skal need to both be feed alot of minutes in Skal's case at least 20 minutes nightly and in some case 30 + . Stein needs at least 25 minutes but in most cases 32 minutes or more . These are 2 of our bigs that will be focal points to this team in the near future .
We need to feed these guys a lot of minutes . When healthy this goes for Malachi . Buddy has to be given a lot of minutes .
I am only concerned about any current vets we have that we intend to keep . If we are not keeping them then it's a business and move on from them especially as we approach being completely eliminated from the payoff picture .

19 games remaining we are 4 back with 3 -4 other teams in front of us as well .
I think we are done now . But for argument sake if we get 6 games back from the playoffs . I say Kings should only play vets whom we do not plan to keep at all or very limited minutes were as giving our immediate future players the bulk of the minutes .

I understand all the points and opinions you guys are making but let's say I'm Vivek. I watch alot of basketball but in no way am I a professional in any sense of the sport (playing, coaching, managing or developing). Who do you think I should trust on the right pace, matchups, minutes and alignments I should use my young players in? Coach Joerger and staff or the fanbase?

Pretty simple.

And BTW the minutes for the young players have increased. This whole discussion really heated up when Skal played limited minutes in the Utah game. We don't know the reason for that, whether it was fatigue, resting an injury, discipline, player/lockerroom management or what. But what has been clear, beside a few exceptions, is that the minutes in the last 5 games are being spread around much more than previously. All the main guys are getting around 20 mins a game, besides WCS and the point guards, who are getting more. It's a step toward what you guys are saying you want for our young player. I see this as a smart coach managing his lockerroom and the team he has. It can't be easy.

That's a pretty poor argument.
"I watch alot of basketball but in no way am I a professional in any sense of the sport (playing, coaching, managing or developing). Who do you think I should trust on the right pace, matchups, minutes and alignments I should use my young players in? Coach Joerger and staff or the fanbase?"
Just because Joerger is doing it a certain way doesn't mean he is doing it correctly. Same goes for anyone on here stating their way is the only way.
The fact is there are many ways to start this rebuild, Joerger has his and while IMO he is doing a lot right, he is doing a lot, let's say differently. If these vets are busting their asses in practise just like the young guys are being asked to then no worries with some playing time. I can certainly see DC doing that.
They are being taught how to be a professional, however in my experience as a player, coach and administrator young players all react differently to getting increased mins and then playing well or poorly. It's a case by case basis.
The thing is, the coaching staff, at this point in time, hasn't let them off the leash to find out. That is frustrating.


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It's a poor argument to say I trust his judgement over yours or mine or any other fan in this matter? Whatever man...

I have never said that everything he does is right or the argument for playing younger player more is invalid. Only that I think he knows better than us what should be done.

And many of the young player mins have increased.

[blind prophet]

No, it's a trap we've seen forced on fans before and it didn't work, won't work, and doesn't work. Even on the pregame they are talking about how many of these players are auditioning for other teams. How does that in any way help the Kings moving forward? If you believe players are better off not actually playing against competition then that's fine but I couldn't disagree more and have given a specific example on the team currently as to the lasting negative effects of doing do. There is only so much time before these players come off their rookie deals (Gee, think I've said that before) so there really is only about a 2-3 year window before you have to start deciding what's what, where you are going. and who's going with you.

Agreed man.

I could see the logic in giving Tyreke some burn if there's a chance we may want him back next year.

The only possible explanation I have here is maybe Vlade really wants the Kings to press, maybe he actually wants to, or thinks he wants some of these vets around next year.

Not what I or you would most likely do.