Bradley Beal - Part III

[TheKingOfVa360]

Klay Thompson?

I wouldn't trade Beal for Klay. I think Beal is already as good as Klay if not better. And Beal is almost 4 years younger.

[europeanfan]

A detail that I love if that he doesn't seem to give a **** if it's Biyombo or Gobert at the rim, he's confident he can score anyway.

Watch on YouTube

I mean look at 1min10 he doesn't even need a screen to beat Ross and Biyombo.

He's not doing with raw athleticism either like a young Wade who was just a freak of nature.

A lot of people say Harden is the natural heir to Ginobili, but I went from watching Ginobili to Beal myself, Ginobili had some clutch defensive plays in him, the clutch steal Beal got yesterday after missing that wide open 3 was a typical Ginobili turn of events. His passing doesn't have that much flair yet, and will maybe never come close to Gino/Harden but his game is so well rounded that it doesn't matter.

I think the last American player I liked watching so much was Chris Paul is in prime.

[nate33]

I'm not sure I'd trade Beal for Antonio Davis, but yes for Anthony. And probably wouldn't trade him for John Wall.

Blake is a pending FA and is becoming injury-prone. I do like Paul George and don't like Cousins, no matter what crazy stats he puts up.

My issue with John Wall is age. He's still a better player than Beal, but he's 3 years older. We pretty much know what Wall will become as a player - pretty much what he is right now. We still don't know what Beal's ceiling is. Also, Wall is likely to get a supermax contract in 2 years, which will be really pricey.

Finally, I didn't put Wall in a "probably wouldn't trade" category. I put him in the "would consider" category - meaning it's a possibility but not a no-brainer.

[Kanyewest]

For this season, how does Beal rank in terms of shooting guards? I think Beal is making his case for #1 although a case could be made for DeRozan. Thompson may play better without Durant in the lineup.

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[tontoz]

For this season, how does Beal rank in terms of shooting guards? I think Beal is making his case for #1 although a case could be made for DeRozan. Thompson may play better without Durant in the lineup.

Sent from my LG-D851 using RealGM mobile app

If we count Harden as a 2 then Beal would be 3rd in the league at worst. I think a case could be made that he is better than Klay. Beal is 3rd in RPM marginally behind Klay.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/2

I would say he is definitely better than Derozen, who is a weak defender and doesn't have much off the ball game.

[nuposse04]

For this season, how does Beal rank in terms of shooting guards? I think Beal is making his case for #1 although a case could be made for DeRozan. Thompson may play better without Durant in the lineup.

Sent from my LG-D851 using RealGM mobile app

If we count Harden as a 2 then Beal would be 3rd in the league at worst. I think a case could be made that he is better than Klay. Beal is 3rd in RPM marginally behind Klay.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/2

I would say he is definitely better than Derozen, who is a weak defender and doesn't have much off the ball game.

Unless the rankings are coming up differently for you, RPM has beal ranked 2nd there to Harden

Beal is better then klay per 36 across the board save for an extra rebound a game and slightly lower TOs then Beal.. which makes sense since Beal can actually initiate offense. Klay for all his awesome shooting isn't the playmaker Beal has become.

Beal also bests him in WS48, Ortg/Drtg differential, PER and VORP. Klay is a bettr 3 pt shooter and probably a better defender but Klay also has the benefit of not having to expend that much energy as Beal does on offense.

Save for Harden I can't think of a better 2 guard. Unless you ascribe the WP48 in which case you have this absolute hilarity:
http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players?direction=desc&minimum=true&positions%5B%5D=SG&sort=per48_wins_produced

Thabo, GRIII, Seth Curry, and Tony Allen better then Beal... LMAO.

[tontoz]

For this season, how does Beal rank in terms of shooting guards? I think Beal is making his case for #1 although a case could be made for DeRozan. Thompson may play better without Durant in the lineup.

Sent from my LG-D851 using RealGM mobile app

If we count Harden as a 2 then Beal would be 3rd in the league at worst. I think a case could be made that he is better than Klay. Beal is 3rd in RPM marginally behind Klay.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/2

I would say he is definitely better than Derozen, who is a weak defender and doesn't have much off the ball game.

Unless the rankings are coming up differently for you, RPM has beal ranked 2nd there to Harden

Beal is better then klay per 36 across the board save for an extra rebound a game and slightly lower TOs then Beal.. which makes sense since Beal can actually initiate offense. Klay for all his awesome shooting isn't the playmaker Beal has become.

Beal also bests him in WS48, Ortg/Drtg differential, PER and VORP. Klay is a bettr 3 pt shooter and probably a better defender but Klay also has the benefit of not having to expend that much energy as Beal does on offense.

Save for Harden I can't think of a better 2 guard. Unless you ascribe the WP48 in which case you have this absolute hilarity:
http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players?direction=desc&minimum=true&positions%5B%5D=SG&sort=per48_wins_produced

Thabo, GRIII, Seth Curry, and Tony Allen better then Beal... LMAO.

LOL they just did an update. Klay was 2nd when i posted the link.

[nate33]

For this season, how does Beal rank in terms of shooting guards? I think Beal is making his case for #1 although a case could be made for DeRozan. Thompson may play better without Durant in the lineup.

Sent from my LG-D851 using RealGM mobile app

If we count Harden as a 2 then Beal would be 3rd in the league at worst. I think a case could be made that he is better than Klay. Beal is 3rd in RPM marginally behind Klay.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/2

I would say he is definitely better than Derozen, who is a weak defender and doesn't have much off the ball game.

Unless the rankings are coming up differently for you, RPM has beal ranked 2nd there to Harden

Beal is better then klay per 36 across the board save for an extra rebound a game and slightly lower TOs then Beal.. which makes sense since Beal can actually initiate offense. Klay for all his awesome shooting isn't the playmaker Beal has become.

Beal also bests him in WS48, Ortg/Drtg differential, PER and VORP. Klay is a bettr 3 pt shooter and probably a better defender but Klay also has the benefit of not having to expend that much energy as Beal does on offense.

Save for Harden I can't think of a better 2 guard. Unless you ascribe the WP48 in which case you have this absolute hilarity:
http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players?direction=desc&minimum=true&positions%5B%5D=SG&sort=per48_wins_produced

Thabo, GRIII, Seth Curry, and Tony Allen better then Beal... LMAO.

I think DeRozan would be better on a bad team because he's a legit 1st option scorer, albeit at lower efficiency. Beal is better for a good team because he can score in a way that doesn't detract from his teammates, and he can provide spacing to help his teammates score easier. Beal is also a better defender than DeRozan.

Since the goal is to play on good teams and actually win titles, I think Beal is the best SG in the league right now (excluding Harden).

[CobraCommander]

Klay Thompson?

I wouldn't trade Beal for Klay. I think Beal is already as good as Klay if not better. And Beal is almost 4 years younger.

Ok I and1'd you butttttttt i think Klay is being held back on GSWs. Klay on a team where he is the center piece or primary scorer could be a MVP contender. Can you imagine Klay next to Wall where Klay is the focal point of the offense??

Or Better yet..I would argue that Klay and Westbrook would make OKC better than GSW because you would have a true Alpha in Westbrook with someone that can play the side kick role without ego.

Back to Beal...Beal isnt as good as Klay on the defensive end yet...but Beal is trending to be as good as Klay and thats as much as we could ask for...

[stevemcqueen1]

Beal's a blue chipper. He's better than Klay. He's better than Lillard too. He's the second best player from his draft class and the best perimeter player. Wall is the best player from his class. Between the two of them, there will probably come a point where they are the best players at their position in the league. Gonna have to wait for Harden and Curry and Paul to get old first though, so it might be several years from now.

[payitforward]

Thing about Beal is that he got better -- then he got better again -- & now he's getting better again: all within a single season! I.e. we really don't know his ceiling yet.

No, I wouldn't take Klay Thompson for him. Guys like Butler & Harden are 4 years older than Brad. Not interested. Anthony Davis? Of course.

[payitforward]

OTOH, that doesn't mean Brad couldn't be traded. But not easily in a 1-for-1 deal.

[ClutchDJ]

Klay can barely create for himself. Definitely taking Beal over him at this stage.

[Illmatic12]

I remember people on this board comparing their shooting splits and saying Brad would "never" be on Klay's level, and I said that people are discounting the 3yr age difference. Sure enough, as he enters his prime Beal is surpassing Thompson offensively

Beal's comp isn't vs any SG who's currently playing. His comp is vs Reggie Miller and Ray Allen. When you start talking about an SG who can average 20+ppg on 60 TS% that's the historical territory we're getting into. Harden does it, but as a FT drawing machine and not a floor-spacing sharpshooter.


Interesting query: guards who have posted a season over 60 TS% by their age 24 season (Brad is 23yo) sorted by ppg

http://bkref.com/tiny/2PbzR

[nate33]

I remember people on this board comparing their shooting splits and saying Brad would "never" be on Klay's level, and I said that people are discounting the 3yr age difference. Sure enough, as he enters his prime Beal is surpassing Thompson offensively

Beal's comp isn't vs any SG who's currently playing. His comp is vs Reggie Miller and Ray Allen. When you start talking about an SG who can average 20+ppg on 60 TS% that's the historical territory we're getting into. Harden does it, but as a FT drawing machine and not a floor-spacing sharpshooter.


Interesting query: guards who have posted a season over 60 TS% by their age 24 season (Brad is 23yo) sorted by ppg

http://bkref.com/tiny/2PbzR

I am eating serious crow on Beal. I really didn't think he'd pan out to be much more than a Hersey Hawkins type of guy - a reliable catch-and-shoot scorer who could also finish on the break, but not really a shot creator.

Boy was I wrong.

I can think of very few examples of guys who have learned to create off the dribble after entering the league. Beal is one of them. (Kawhi Leonard and Jimmy Butler are others). His improvement has been remarkable. He is such a complete scorer right now and he is so fundamentally sound with his footwork. He has a bit of Steve Nash in him in the way he utilizes the fear of his jumper in order to sneak into the lane and finish at the rim, all without the need for elite athleticism.

The only thing left to add to his arsenal is the ability to draw fouls at a higher rate.

[nate33]

I remember people on this board comparing their shooting splits and saying Brad would "never" be on Klay's level, and I said that people are discounting the 3yr age difference. Sure enough, as he enters his prime Beal is surpassing Thompson offensively

Beal's comp isn't vs any SG who's currently playing. His comp is vs Reggie Miller and Ray Allen. When you start talking about an SG who can average 20+ppg on 60 TS% that's the historical territory we're getting into. Harden does it, but as a FT drawing machine and not a floor-spacing sharpshooter.


Interesting query: guards who have posted a season over 60 TS% by their age 24 season (Brad is 23yo) sorted by ppg

http://bkref.com/tiny/2PbzR

Now throw in a USG% of 25% and a 1500 minutes played cutoff:

http://bkref.com/tiny/hrteP

[tontoz]

Beal's breakout this season is one of the most dramatic i have seen in recent years. In addition to the other areas where he has improved there is one that simply defies logic.

In his first four seasons one of his big issues were 2 pt jumpers. He took too many and shot them very poorly. Before this season his career best from 10-22 feet was 37.8%. This season he is shooting 49.1%.

http://bkref.com/tiny/xlnXl

[DCsOwn]

I remember people on this board comparing their shooting splits and saying Brad would "never" be on Klay's level, and I said that people are discounting the 3yr age difference. Sure enough, as he enters his prime Beal is surpassing Thompson offensively

Beal's comp isn't vs any SG who's currently playing. His comp is vs Reggie Miller and Ray Allen. When you start talking about an SG who can average 20+ppg on 60 TS% that's the historical territory we're getting into. Harden does it, but as a FT drawing machine and not a floor-spacing sharpshooter.


Interesting query: guards who have posted a season over 60 TS% by their age 24 season (Brad is 23yo) sorted by ppg

http://bkref.com/tiny/2PbzR

I am eating serious crow on Beal. I really didn't think he'd pan out to be much more than a Hersey Hawkins type of guy - a reliable catch-and-shoot scorer who could also finish on the break, but not really a shot creator.

Boy was I wrong.

I can think of very few examples of guys who have learned to create off the dribble after entering the league. Beal is one of them. (Kawhi Leonard and Jimmy Butler are others). His improvement has been remarkable. He is such a complete scorer right now and he is so fundamentally sound with his footwork. He has a bit of Steve Nash in him in the way he utilizes the fear of his jumper in order to sneak into the lane and finish at the rim, all without the need for elite athleticism.

The only thing left to add to his arsenal is the ability to draw fouls at a higher rate.

The thing to remember about Beal, and one of the reasons that I was so bullish on his development even while he struggled a bit, is that he always possessed the rudimentary ability to create shots for himself. As a young player, and Beal confirmed this in multiple interviews, Beal actually patterned his game after Allen Iverson. If you saw him play in high school, he possessed the ball a ton, demonstrated competent ball handling ability, and generated offense for himself consistently (including in high level allstar games). He didn't start from the position of a non-ball handler/shooter, he started from a scorer/shooter baseline. That does not always translate gong forward obviously (often players have to adjust parts of their games as they progress into higher levels of competition), but as we're seeing, Beal has developed the capacity to create for himself, and to me, that is in part due to the fact that he had an unrefined ability to handle the rock even as a young player in the league. He's really just gone on to burnish that portion of his skill set.

He'll never be AI or Harden in terms of initiating offense/creating off the dribble, but he already possesses a better handle than Ray Allen or Allen Houston (I watched Ray from his days in UConn very closely), and I can imagine him getting to a Dwade level of ball handling before its all said and done. Don't misunderstand me, he won't be the singular force that prime Wade was because he's not as physically gifted, but in terms of handling the ball, I could very easily see him reach that level of competence as soon as his 25th birthday.

[stevemcqueen1]

Walter Davis man, that is a good find. He has to be one of the best players that no one remembers.

[nate33]

The thing to remember about Beal, and one of the reasons that I was so bullish on his development even while he struggled a bit, is that he always possessed the rudimentary ability to create shots for himself. As a young player, and Beal confirmed this in multiple interviews, Beal actually patterned his game after Allen Iverson. If you saw him play in high school, he possessed the ball a ton, demonstrated competent ball handling ability, and generated offense for himself consistently (including in high level allstar games). He didn't start from the position of a non-ball handler/shooter, he started from a scorer/shooter baseline. That does not always translate gong forward obviously (often players have to adjust parts of their games as they progress into higher levels of competition), but as we're seeing, Beal has developed the capacity to create for himself, and to me, that is in part due to the fact that he had an unrefined ability to handle the rock even as a young player in the league. He's really just gone on to burnish that portion of his skill set.

He'll never be AI or Harden in terms of initiating offense/creating off the dribble, but he already possesses a better handle than Ray Allen or Allen Houston (I watched Ray from his days in UConn very closely), and I can imagine him getting to a Dwade level of ball handling before its all said and done. Don't misunderstand me, he won't be the singular force that prime Wade was because he's not as physically gifted, but in terms of handling the ball, I could very easily see him reach that level of competence as soon as his 25th birthday.

I disagree. Beal was embarrassingly bad as a one-on-one ball-handler/shot creator in his first 2 seasons. Any Bradley Beal isolation usually ended up in a turnover. He was terrible. His crossover was way too high and often got tipped by the defender.

He has improved his handle dramatically since entering the league.