The Washington Redskins Thread

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

This is basically what I said in a previous post

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[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[Rafael122]

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Good signing, but they still need linebacker help, and safety help.

[Wizardspride]

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Good signing, but they still need linebacker help, and safety help.

LB, yep...but they signed DJ Swearinger to play FS.

[Wizardspride]

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[Rafael122]

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Good signing, but they still need linebacker help, and safety help.

LB, yep...but they signed DJ Swearinger to play FS.

...they still need safety help lol. I like Malik Hooker, just not sure he'll be there at 17.

[Wizardspride]

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[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Only seen Prior play WR once - against us last year. Looked pretty unstoppable on the day. For those who've seen him more regularly, is he legit?

[Wizardspride]

Only seen Prior play WR once - against us last year. Looked pretty unstoppable on the day. For those who've seen him more regularly, is he legit?

He's legit in terms of talent: 6-4, sub 4.4 forty etc.

He's just inexperienced as a WR (former QB)

Very big upside though.

[stevemcqueen1]

Pryor is good. Elite body control, size, and speed. He has the ability to be a real workhorse at the position. Don't know how good he is as a blocker, but if he's willing, he's got the size to be effective.

As wizardspride said, inexperience at the position is one issue. Though he's so talented, he doesn't have a lot of trouble beating coverage and making plays.

Apparently damn near everyone in the NFL hates the guy. I don't know what it is about him, but he's a milellie11-esque lightning rod. Must be a diva. But then so were Garcon and Jackson.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Bennie Logan is interesting. How does he stack up against Dontarie Poe and the FA DL from the Giants?

[stevemcqueen1]

Bennie Logan is interesting. How does he stack up against Dontarie Poe and the FA DL from the Giants?

Bennie Logan is good but limited. Really good at what he specializes in and I think he would be a high quality acquisition. The tl;dr summary of Logan is that he's a top notch run stuffing nose tackle. Two down player. Basically no utility against the pass.

A little run down on him, he was the nose tackle in Philly's interior DL rotation the past couple of seasons. The other key players in it were Fletcher Cox and Beau Allen. The three of them are really damn good run stuffers and Cox is a good pass rusher. Philly used a pretty conservative two gapping 3-4 scheme in 2014 and 2015 where Logan played a classic gap clogging zero technique, and this suited him really well. In 2015, Profootball Focus graded him as the fourth best run defending interior defensive linemen in the NFL. Then last year they switched to a one gap 4-3 scheme where the lineman are tasked to get upfield and Logan was much less effective. That's why they're letting him walk.

He's a really good fit for the type of scheme we ran last season. I don't know if you're familiar with the terminology of defensive line alignments, but last year Chris Baker was the player who lined up most frequently in the zero technique in the entire league. Zero technique is lining up directly over the center, a position where you defend the two A gaps on either side of the center (play two gap). Meaning the Redskins play with a traditional two gapping nose tackle more than any other team in the league. This is what Logan excels at. Baker is OK at it, but stylistically, he is much more of a penetrator and is probably more valuable as a one and three technique. Which is why I think he left.

Here is a graph from PFF showing how where the top five zero techniques in the NFL lined up most frequently last season:



As you can see, Baker took over half his snaps as the 0 tech, Logan was next highest with about 44%. Sammie Lee Hill was third at just under a third of his snaps. Then you have Poe and Harrison (the Giants FA acquisition from last year you were talking about). Each take about a quarter of their snaps as a 0 technique. Harrison takes the vast majority of his snaps at the one technique in New York's scheme. A one technique means lining up off the center's left or right shoulder. It's a one gap alignment where the DT is only responsible for one of the A gaps. This allows the DT to play downhill get into the backfield easier. But it requires you to commit another defensive player to defending the other gap. Usually that's an inside linebacker. So it can create holes in your run defense if your inside linebackers suck.

Now if you look, you'll see each of them also play some form of 2 technique. I'm guessing PFF's 2I technique notation denotes playing in a 2 technique alignment but playing only one gap instead of both. 2 technique means lining up directly over a guard, and in the old days that meant defending the A and B gap. But I'm guessing 2I means shooting one of the gaps, and the purpose of lining up in the 2 technique instead of either the 1 or 3 is to try and disguise which gap you're having the guy shoot. As you can see, Dontari Poe was the only guy who played a fair amount of either type of 2 technique. It's not a common alignment, you'd probably only go to it in certain nickle and dime packages where you think a run might still be coming.

Finally, the 3 technique part of the graph shoes that only Dontari Poe and Sammie Lee Hill got a lot of run at that spot. Three technique means you're lining up off the right shoulder of the right guard, or the left shoulder of the left guard and they defend the B gap. It's the Mean Joe Greene position. Usually you put your best pass rushing interior lineman there, so if one of these guys is playing a lot of three technique, it means they're playing a featured role on passing downs too.

Clearly Dontari Poe is a different kind of player than Logan. He is far more versatile and plays everywhere on Kansas City's line. And he also plays way more snaps than Logan did. He got over a thousand snaps last season to Logan's 700 something. A thousand snaps means Poe almost never comes off the field. That's rare. So Poe is better than Logan largely because he's a work horse and has the ability to play on passing downs.

But Logan is very good at what he does. If you're satisfied with just a run stuffing two gapper to play first and second down who can solidify the interior of your run defense, then he fits the bill. Our run defense has been soft as Hell for years. We could really use Logan. I think he'd be an upgrade over Baker and he'd probably be way cheaper than Poe and Harrison were. Good cost effective move.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Bennie Logan is interesting. How does he stack up against Dontarie Poe and the FA DL from the Giants?

Bennie Logan is good but limited. Really good at what he specializes in and I think he would be a high quality acquisition. The tl;dr summary of Logan is that he's a top notch run stuffing nose tackle. Two down player. Basically no utility against the pass.

A little run down on him, he was the nose tackle in Philly's interior DL rotation the past couple of seasons. The other key players in it were Fletcher Cox and Beau Allen. The three of them are really damn good run stuffers and Cox is a good pass rusher. Philly used a pretty conservative two gapping 3-4 scheme in 2014 and 2015 where Logan played a classic gap clogging zero technique, and this suited him really well. In 2015, Profootball Focus graded him as the fourth best run defending interior defensive linemen in the NFL. Then last year they switched to a one gap 4-3 scheme where the lineman are tasked to get upfield and Logan was much less effective. That's why they're letting him walk.

He's a really good fit for the type of scheme we ran last season. I don't know if you're familiar with the terminology of defensive line alignments, but last year Chris Baker was the player who lined up most frequently in the zero technique in the entire league. Zero technique is lining up directly over the center, a position where you defend the two A gaps on either side of the center (play two gap). Meaning the Redskins play with a traditional two gapping nose tackle more than any other team in the league. This is what Logan excels at. Baker is OK at it, but stylistically, he is much more of a penetrator and is probably more valuable as a one and three technique. Which is why I think he left.

Here is a graph from PFF showing how where the top five zero techniques in the NFL lined up most frequently last season:



As you can see, Baker took over half his snaps as the 0 tech, Logan was next highest with about 44%. Sammie Lee Hill was third at just under a third of his snaps. Then you have Poe and Harrison (the Giants FA acquisition from last year you were talking about). Each take about a quarter of their snaps as a 0 technique. Harrison takes the vast majority of his snaps at the one technique in New York's scheme. A one technique means lining up off the center's left or right shoulder. It's a one gap alignment where the DT is only responsible for one of the A gaps. This allows the DT to play downhill get into the backfield easier. But it requires you to commit another defensive player to defending the other gap. Usually that's an inside linebacker. So it can create holes in your run defense if your inside linebackers suck.

Now if you look, you'll see each of them also play some form of 2 technique. I'm guessing PFF's 2I technique notation denotes playing in a 2 technique alignment but playing only one gap instead of both. 2 technique means lining up directly over a guard, and in the old days that meant defending the A and B gap. But I'm guessing 2I means shooting one of the gaps, and the purpose of lining up in the 2 technique instead of either the 1 or 3 is to try and disguise which gap you're having the guy shoot. As you can see, Dontari Poe was the only guy who played a fair amount of either type of 2 technique. It's not a common alignment, you'd probably only go to it in certain nickle and dime packages where you think a run might still be coming.

Finally, the 3 technique part of the graph shoes that only Dontari Poe and Sammie Lee Hill got a lot of run at that spot. Three technique means you're lining up off the right shoulder of the right guard, or the left shoulder of the left guard and they defend the B gap. It's the Mean Joe Greene position. Usually you put your best pass rushing interior lineman there, so if one of these guys is playing a lot of three technique, it means they're playing a featured role on passing downs too.

Clearly Dontari Poe is a different kind of player than Logan. He is far more versatile and plays everywhere on Kansas City's line. And he also plays way more snaps than Logan did. He got over a thousand snaps last season to Logan's 700 something. A thousand snaps means Poe almost never comes off the field. That's rare. So Poe is better than Logan largely because he's a work horse and has the ability to play on passing downs.

But Logan is very good at what he does. If you're satisfied with just a run stuffing two gapper to play first and second down who can solidify the interior of your run defense, then he fits the bill. Our run defense has been soft as Hell for years. We could really use Logan. I think he'd be an upgrade over Baker and he'd probably be way cheaper than Poe and Harrison were. Good cost effective move.

Awesome analysis. Thanks for taking to time.

It's a shame we couldn't keep Bake and add Bennie. Baker isn't a traditional nose, but seemed to do pretty well next to Pot Roast.

All in all, if we can sign Logan, we may have actually upgraded.

Be interesting to see what emerges in terms of the whole story behind them s-canning Scott M.

[CobraCommander]

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I cant tell you how much I disagree with this...Deshawn and Garçon would still be the 1st and 2nd best WR on this team (reed is a oft injured tight end). The skins are in official free fall!

[Wizardspride]

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I cant tell you how much I disagree with this...Deshawn and Garçon would still be the 1st and 2nd best WR on this team (reed is a oft injured tight end). The skins are in official free fall!

He didn't say they were better.

He just said they have alot of upside....and he's correct.

[stevemcqueen1]

Pryor is better than Garcon. Garcon is being overrated now by a fanbase that didn't care too much for him before this week. The only thing Garcon did at a plus level was block and run after the catch. Pryor is a far bigger talent than him. He's bigger and faster, he's got better run after catch ability, better body control, a better catch radius, is a better red zone target, and you can run plays with him out of the backfield. He's also three years younger than Garcon and cheaper than what Garcon ended up going for. Pryor is a flat out upgrade over Garcon.

Jackson was a brilliant deep threat, but he was limited, aging, and replaceable. He is a flanker who basically only excelled at the vertical route stems. Pryor can play both flanker and split end and be productive running the underneath stuff too. Losing Jackson is a blow, but letting him walk was the right move at his age and price. He's a speed merchant who just turned 30. He'll probably start declining in years two and three of his deal. And there is a chance we can replace Jackson's productivity with Doctson, who is also a special vertical receiver, but is also a damn good red zone target too. And if you're going to ding Jordan Reed for being hurt a lot, you can't ignore how often Jackson got hurt.

Letting Garcon walk was necessary. The dude was a crappy teammate and we've needed to turn the page with him for a while. Pryor is an outright upgrade.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Pryor is better than Garcon. Garcon is being overrated now by a fanbase that didn't care too much for him before this week. The only thing Garcon did at a plus level was block and run after the catch. Pryor is a far bigger talent than him. He's bigger and faster, he's got better run after catch ability, better body control, a better catch radius, is a better red zone target, and you can run plays with him out of the backfield. He's also three years younger than Garcon and cheaper than what Garcon ended up going for. Pryor is a flat out upgrade over Garcon.

Jackson was a brilliant deep threat, but he was limited, aging, and replaceable. He is a flanker who basically only excelled at the vertical route stems. Pryor can play both flanker and split end and be productive running the underneath stuff too. Losing Jackson is a blow, but letting him walk was the right move at his age and price. He's a speed merchant who just turned 30. He'll probably start declining in years two and three of his deal. And there is a chance we can replace Jackson's productivity with Doctson, who is also a special vertical receiver, but is also a damn good red zone target too. And if you're going to ding Jordan Reed for being hurt a lot, you can't ignore how often Jackson got hurt.

Letting Garcon walk was necessary. The dude was a crappy teammate and we've needed to turn the page with him for a while. Pryor is an outright upgrade.

I think I agree with this, though time will tell. Just curious, why do you say Garçon was a crappy teammate? Reporters mostly talk about him as a hard worker and locker room leader.

[stevemcqueen1]

Pryor is better than Garcon. Garcon is being overrated now by a fanbase that didn't care too much for him before this week. The only thing Garcon did at a plus level was block and run after the catch. Pryor is a far bigger talent than him. He's bigger and faster, he's got better run after catch ability, better body control, a better catch radius, is a better red zone target, and you can run plays with him out of the backfield. He's also three years younger than Garcon and cheaper than what Garcon ended up going for. Pryor is a flat out upgrade over Garcon.

Jackson was a brilliant deep threat, but he was limited, aging, and replaceable. He is a flanker who basically only excelled at the vertical route stems. Pryor can play both flanker and split end and be productive running the underneath stuff too. Losing Jackson is a blow, but letting him walk was the right move at his age and price. He's a speed merchant who just turned 30. He'll probably start declining in years two and three of his deal. And there is a chance we can replace Jackson's productivity with Doctson, who is also a special vertical receiver, but is also a damn good red zone target too. And if you're going to ding Jordan Reed for being hurt a lot, you can't ignore how often Jackson got hurt.

Letting Garcon walk was necessary. The dude was a crappy teammate and we've needed to turn the page with him for a while. Pryor is an outright upgrade.

I think I agree with this, though time will tell. Just curious, why do you say Garçon was a crappy teammate? Reporters mostly talk about him as a hard worker and locker room leader.

I bet reporters liked him because he was one of the biggest leakers on the roster. Plus there was this little gem: http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/03/06/pierre-garcon-laughs-redskins/

He also demanded a trade during the middle of last season.

I think Garcon is a good person outside the locker room, but inside, he's a mercenary and a diva.