NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread

pickIBL · Post #281 » by **pickIBL** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:26 am

I would take the kid from ucla first btw. I'm becoming very intrigued by Miles Bridges if utah could put something together. If you anchor with gobert and run out hood, hayward, and exum he's a surprisingly good fit.. Plus he's a two feet two hands guy.

pickIBL · Post #282 » by **pickIBL** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:38 am

Plus with that late first i think they go jeanne. With his mobility and developing shot he could play along side gobert. Twin 7'2 french towers

pickIBL · Post #283 » by **pickIBL** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:21 am

Kid in Croatia on a .500 team dropping 23/7/7. At 6'7 you gotta investigate a little. Luka bozic

sipclip · Post #284 » by **sipclip** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:27 am

pickIBL wrote:I would take the kid from ucla first btw. I'm becoming very intrigued by Miles Bridges if utah could put something together. If you anchor with gobert and run out hood, hayward, and exum he's a surprisingly good fit.. Plus he's a two feet two hands guy.

I love this draft so much. I feel like I am saying this about every prospect but I would love to snag TJ Leaf. Every time I watch him play I come away impressed with his overall game. I think he has the potential to become a better version of Ryan Anderson which we would all take.

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sipclip · Post #285 » by **sipclip** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:27 am

KqWIN · Post #286 » by **KqWIN** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:30 am

I don't really think of Leaf as a Ryan Anderson type. He's a scorer, not a shooter. Ryno did more than just shoot earlier in his career, but he's always had a quick trigger from behind the arc. The three ball has been the most important part of his game. I know Leaf has a great shooting percentage, but he's not a guy looking for threes. Most of his offense comes from within 15 feet.

stitches · Post #287 » by **stitches** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:07 am

uber_snotling wrote:
stitches wrote:Lauri Markkanen might be the best 7 footer shooter in the history of the league the moment he steps foot on an NBA floor. He's shooting 44% from 3 on 6 attempts per 40 minutes. He is insane. And he does it in variety of ways. Look at those stats:

(numbers by Ode To Oden podcast)
Catch and shoot: 1.38 ppp
Pick and pop: 1.24 ppp
Off screen: 1.35 ppp !!!!!!!!!!!! Yes! This is 7 footeell r running off screens and scoring at 1.35 ppp rate!!!!!

WTF!!!?!? Those are insane numbers. I'm beginning to think it might be a good idea to try to trade up for this kid(using Favors ? ). He will be an great addition and insane offensive weapon next to Gobert. He might be the perfect complement offensively for him I've ever seen.

Ever heard of Kareem? Or Dirk? Or Wilt?

It is great that Markkanen is shooting well in college, but wait until he scores a few thousands points in the NBA before crowning him the greatest 7 ft shooter in the history of the NBA.

Of those only Dirk can have a claim to be the best shooter 7 footer in the history of the league. Wilt and Kareem are not even in the discussion.

I know that what I'm saying sounds extremely ambitious and a possible overreaction to smallish sample in college, but it's not just the stats I'm looking at - the kid is a natural shooter. Just watch him and watch his form and release. People are swooning over Porzingis shooting. I'm calling it right now - Markkanen will be a better shooter in the league than Porzingis, DAY 1! He has range and he has variability in his shots and he's consistently good at pretty much every single type of jump shot. With that said - I'm talking only about shooting here. I think he has a long way to go in other areas of the game and I don't really like him defensively at all, although I think he can be good enough when put next to a big like Gobert.

I'm no more immune to making a mistake or being wrong than anybody else, but at least I believe I have a reasonable albeit kind of a hot take on this one. Feel free to tease me in two-three years if Lauri sucks at shooting in the NBA.

stitches · Post #288 » by **stitches** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:26 am

Catchall wrote:I think Hartenstein is lottery talent. Legit 7-footer, good athlete, has inside-outside game, young. Plays with an edge. To me he looks like a better prospect than Bender and Sabonis from last year, possibly Poeltl as well. I don't know if he's really going to play the 4, but I would take a hard look at him. I think if he were playing college in the U.S. I think he'd be discussed in the top half of the lottery.

His edge is of the type Cousins has. I watched him over the summer in a FIBA Euro tournament. He pouts and screams at teammates every time he doesn't get his way. Taunts opponents and barks at refs. I watched him flat out refuse to defend his man and allow a walk into the paint for a layup simply because he didn't get to finish the previous possession on offense. Which again... just like in Cousins' case is shameful, because he has a damn good talent overall.

KqWIN · Post #289 » by **KqWIN** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:07 am

Frank Jackson, our prodigal son, has taken Grayson Allen's starting position. I don't think he'll declare for this draft, but I think it'd be interesting if he test the waters and we give him a promise as a first round pick. Bias aside, I think he could be a good scoring combo guard in the NBA. He'll probably be a lottery pick if he returns, so it wouldn't be a bad idea to take a flier on him one year early. Great speed, athleticism, and shooting ability.

sipclip · Post #290 » by **sipclip** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:25 pm

KqWIN wrote:I don't really think of Leaf as a Ryan Anderson type. He's a scorer, not a shooter. Ryno did more than just shoot earlier in his career, but he's always had a quick trigger from behind the arc. The three ball has been the most important part of his game. I know Leaf has a great shooting percentage, but he's not a guy looking for threes. Most of his offense comes from within 15 feet.

I think he is a shooter and a scorer which is what I like so much about him.

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pickIBL · Post #291 » by **pickIBL** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:37 pm

stitches wrote:
Catchall wrote:I think Hartenstein is lottery talent. Legit 7-footer, good athlete, has inside-outside game, young. Plays with an edge. To me he looks like a better prospect than Bender and Sabonis from last year, possibly Poeltl as well. I don't know if he's really going to play the 4, but I would take a hard look at him. I think if he were playing college in the U.S. I think he'd be discussed in the top half of the lottery.

His edge is of the type Cousins has. I watched him over the summer in a FIBA Euro tournament. He pouts and screams at teammates every time he doesn't get his way. Taunts opponents and barks at refs. I watched him flat out refuse to defend his man and allow a walk into the paint for a layup simply because he didn't get to finish the previous possession on offense. Which again... just like in Cousins' case is shameful, because he has a damn good talent overall.

He needs to grow/man up. We'll see

uber_snotling · Post #292 » by **uber_snotling** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:01 pm

stitches wrote:
uber_snotling wrote:Ever heard of Kareem? Or Dirk? Or Wilt?

It is great that Markkanen is shooting well in college, but wait until he scores a few thousands points in the NBA before crowning him the greatest 7 ft shooter in the history of the NBA.

Of those only Dirk can have a claim to be the best shooter 7 footer in the history of the league. Wilt and Kareem are not even in the discussion.....

I'm no more immune to making a mistake or being wrong than anybody else, but at least I believe I have a reasonable albeit kind of a hot take on this one. Feel free to tease me in two-three years if Lauri sucks at shooting in the NBA.

I understand the hot take that the kid can shoot, but Kareem is the all time leader in points scored, and he did it highly efficiently in an era with no 3-point line. Kareem had multiple seasons with TS% greater than 60%, scoring 30+ points per game. He averaged 24.6 points per game over 20 seasons. He was a 19 time all-star, six-time MVP, and three of the top six seasons in win shares ever. He has the two greatest offensive win-shares seasons of all-time at 18.3 and 17.0 (70, 71), better than Jordan, LeBron, Will, and Curry.

Saying Kareem wasn't a great shooter because he didn't have a 3-point shot in an era with no 3-point shot is dumb. Kareem was unguardable and scored 1.2 points per shot for 20 seasons.

Korver maybe able to hit 3s more efficiently than LeBron, but VOLUME matters and being able to score efficiently and create your own shot matters more. That's why Dirk is a great 7 foot shooter, not because he can hit the pick n pop or the open 3, but because he has his own unguardable shot. Well, Kareem had the most unguardable shot in the history of the NBA.

Post #293 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:13 pm

There is a big difference between being a great scorer and a great shooter. Kareem was a great scorer, Korver is a great shooter but not a great scorer. Gobert and DeAndre Jordan have a career TS% of 62% but I don't think anyone will claim they are great shooters.

I think stitches is saying Markkanen will be a great shooter, not necessarily a great scorer.

stitches · Post #294 » by **stitches** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:41 pm

uber_snotling wrote:
stitches wrote:
uber_snotling wrote:Ever heard of Kareem? Or Dirk? Or Wilt?

It is great that Markkanen is shooting well in college, but wait until he scores a few thousands points in the NBA before crowning him the greatest 7 ft shooter in the history of the NBA.

Of those only Dirk can have a claim to be the best shooter 7 footer in the history of the league. Wilt and Kareem are not even in the discussion.....

I'm no more immune to making a mistake or being wrong than anybody else, but at least I believe I have a reasonable albeit kind of a hot take on this one. Feel free to tease me in two-three years if Lauri sucks at shooting in the NBA.

I understand the hot take that the kid can shoot, but Kareem is the all time leader in points scored, and he did it highly efficiently in an era with no 3-point line. Kareem had multiple seasons with TS% greater than 60%, scoring 30+ points per game. He averaged 24.6 points per game over 20 seasons. He was a 19 time all-star, six-time MVP, and three of the top six seasons in win shares ever. He has the two greatest offensive win-shares seasons of all-time at 18.3 and 17.0 (70, 71), better than Jordan, LeBron, Will, and Curry.

Saying Kareem wasn't a great shooter because he didn't have a 3-point shot in an era with no 3-point shot is dumb. Kareem was unguardable and scored 1.2 points per shot for 20 seasons.

Korver maybe able to hit 3s more efficiently than LeBron, but VOLUME matters and being able to score efficiently and create your own shot matters more. That's why Dirk is a great 7 foot shooter, not because he can hit the pick n pop or the open 3, but because he has his own unguardable shot. Well, Kareem had the most unguardable shot in the history of the NBA.

They didn't score by shooting, they scored by dominating the paint. Kareem had 70% FT shooting, Wilt was in the 40s and 50s. That's Deandre Jordan level bad. Kaareem shot 1/18 from 3p for the 10 years of his career there was a 3p line. Those are not shooters, they were amazing players, they were not great shooters.

millslapper · Post #295 » by **millslapper** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:41 pm

And Dirk is a great scorer, not only a shooter. That's a big difference. Markkanen could end as a pure shooter.

stitches · Post #296 » by **stitches** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:45 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:There is a big difference between being a great scorer and a great shooter. Kareem was a great scorer, Korver is a great shooter but not a great scorer. Gobert and DeAndre Jordan have a career TS% of 62% but I don't think anyone will claim they are great shooters.

I think stitches is saying Markkanen will be a great shooter, not necessarily a great scorer.

Exactly. I think he can be both(still better shooter than scorer, though), simply because he can shoot in different ways and he has some ball skills. I can see him being 20pt scorer in the league at some point in his career relatively easy if what he does now translates well in the league.

uber_snotling · Post #297 » by **uber_snotling** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:03 pm

Kareem wasn't dunking. He was hitting his skyhook midrange game to the tune of 30 points per game at 60% eFG.

Do you guys think Karl Malone was a "scorer" but not a shooter?

If you want to claim Markkannen will be the greatest 7-ft catch-and-shoot specialist (a la Korver), then fine. But saying that guys who hold NBA records for points scored are not great "shooters" because they didn't use the 3-point line is two-pointist.

stitches · Post #298 » by **stitches** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:18 pm

uber_snotling wrote:Kareem wasn't dunking. He was hitting his skyhook midrange game to the tune of 30 points per game at 60% eFG.

Do you guys think Karl Malone was a "scorer" but not a shooter?

If you want to claim Markkannen will be the greatest 7-ft catch-and-shoot specialist (a la Korver), then fine. But saying that guys who hold NBA records for points scored are not great "shooters" because they didn't use the 3-point line is two-pointist.

He will score in different ways, not just on catch and shoot opportunities. He has a turn around jumper(similar to the one Porzingis had coming from Spain), he shoots coming off screens and he has some ball-skills where he will probably be able to create a bit against bigs. He has a bit of skill in the post too. I don't think you are giving him enough credit for his offensive game. Korver is a low-usage high efficiency specialist. I think Markkanen can have much higher usage and scoring.

My point was mainly about his ability to stretch the floor at his size and shoot insane % on jumpshots in variety of ways. You seem to have taken it to mean that I think he will be better player than Malone, Wilt and Kareem... something I never said, nor do I even remotely think.

If you want me to make it about Malone, OK I will oblige you - I think he will have better jump shooting percentages from any range outside of 12-15 feet. Both 3s and mid- or long-distance 2s. And that's not to say Malone was bad at those(mid-range jumpshots), by the middle of his career he had become very very good at them. I just think Lauri can be elite at them. As in... Dirk level, Horford level, David West level.

Post #299 » by **Inigo Montoya** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:34 pm

Malone was a great mid-range shooter but he didn't have a consistent 3pt shot or range. Kareem had a great touch which along with his height made his sky-hook unstoppable and made him the greatest scorer in the history of the league. Was he a great shooter? I'd say not necessarily. From my perspective, you need to have a certain long range ability to be considered a shooter and not a shooter-of-fish-in-a-barrel like Gobert, DJ, Shaq and even Kareem to some extent who all had great eFG% but not much of a range.

pickIBL · Post #300 » by **pickIBL** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:48 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:Malone was a great mid-range shooter but he didn't have a consistent 3pt shot or range. Kareem had a great touch which along with his height made his sky-hook unstoppable and made him the greatest scorer in the history of the league. Was he a great shooter? I'd say not necessarily. From my perspective, you need to have a certain long range ability to be considered a shooter and not a shooter-of-fish-in-a-barrel like Gobert, DJ, Shaq and even Kareem to some extent who all had great eFG% but not much of a range.

for a period of time i don't think anyone scored or dominated the floor like wilt did. I agree shooters should make deep 3s consistently