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Ken Berger on the Bulls

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Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#1 » by drosestruts » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:24 pm

Berger, a long-time NBA writer, published a piece today on the Bulls. It covers a lot of what we've been discussing in other threads, but comes with his thoughts and information he's received from "sources"

Link: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2697770-distrust-dysfunction-disappointing-yes-these-are-your-chicago-bulls

Some quotes:

When the Bulls hit the All-Star break as barely a playoff team with veteran leaders mouthing off in unsettling ways, Butler's name became one of the most prominently mentioned in trade talks around the NBA. However, a league source familiar with Chicago's strategy said the team was not initiating trade discussions about Butler but merely fielding calls. There was "absolutely nothing" the team even came close to considering, the person said.



Yet the belief persists in front office circles that Butler is no fan of Hoiberg. In fact, a scout with a rival team told Bleacher Report he's witnessed persistent episodes when Butler, Rondo and Wade have ignored plays Hoiberg has called.

"When Fred would call plays on the sideline, Rondo would just flat-out blow him off," said the scout, who spoke with Bleacher Report on the condition of anonymity. "Wade does it, too. Butler does it, too. ... That becomes infectious."


Like hedge fund managers, they're counting on a crash after two straight summers of exorbitant contracts given out amid unprecedented spikes in the salary cap. And when other teams pull back, the Bulls believe they'll be ready to pounce.

"This market's going to shut down in 14 months," one executive within the league said. "And when it does and you have flexibility, it's a buyer's market and you'll have opportunities."

By then, Wade and Rondo will be long gone, and the Bulls will be banking on their ability to attract high-impact free agents in their prime—something they've never done. It's also something that will be even more challenging if the collateral damage from the Wade-Rondo experiment continues to mount.


It will all come down to whether the Bulls' bet on a free-agent market collapse in 2018 is on the money—and whether they can capitalize. The alternative was to bottom out, rebuild, waste precious years of Butler's prime and take their chances in the draft lottery.
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#2 » by weneeda2guard » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:44 pm

Yea I'm not allowing them to carrot on the stick in front of the donkey me again, I'll pass

Now they want to sell the 2018 plan

Of course this after the 2010, 2012, and 2014 plans smh.

They need to get off they asses and make it happen now.
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#3 » by fleet » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:50 pm

So veterans don't respect Hoiberg. He has a great future. So does the franchise, because all we need to do is find some dumb rookies to win a ring for the team.
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#4 » by Bulls03 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:56 pm

fleet wrote:So veterans don't respect Hoiberg. He has a great future. So does the franchise, because all we need to do is find some dumb rookies to win a ring for the team.


What do you mean find some? We already have our championship core intact.

Payne-Val-Zipser-Portis-Felicio

Rondo-Wade-Butler-Niko-Lopez are just holding them back.
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#5 » by MisterRoy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:01 pm

Bulls03 wrote:
fleet wrote:So veterans don't respect Hoiberg. He has a great future. So does the franchise, because all we need to do is find some dumb rookies to win a ring for the team.


What do you mean find some? We already have our championship core intact.

Payne-Val-Zipser-Portis-Felicio

Rondo-Wade-Butler-Niko-Lopez are just holding them back.

Love it.


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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#6 » by JeremyB0001 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:03 pm

drosestruts wrote:Berger, a long-time NBA writer, published a piece today on the Bulls. It covers a lot of what we've been discussing in other threads, but comes with his thoughts and information he's received from "sources"

Like hedge fund managers, they're counting on a crash after two straight summers of exorbitant contracts given out amid unprecedented spikes in the salary cap. And when other teams pull back, the Bulls believe they'll be ready to pounce.

"This market's going to shut down in 14 months," one executive within the league said. "And when it does and you have flexibility, it's a buyer's market and you'll have opportunities."

By then, Wade and Rondo will be long gone, and the Bulls will be banking on their ability to attract high-impact free agents in their prime—something they've never done. It's also something that will be even more challenging if the collateral damage from the Wade-Rondo experiment continues to mount.


Good article. I found the above section to be the most illuminating. Many have insisted the Bulls have no plan or acted confounded by the plan. A minority of us (Duck comes to mind) have taken the position that the plan is pretty straightforward and has been pretty obvious since this past off-season: It's to maintain cap space for 2018 in the hopes that other teams have spent all of theirs in 2016 and 2017 and that it's become a buyer's market. It's notable that Berger and his executive source also seem to find this plan relatively clear and intuitive. (Although Berger views the plan as being dependent on the Bulls landing superstars with the cap space. I think that the Bulls plainly understand that it's hard to land superstars and have contingency plans for the cap space such as getting assets back in exchange for taking on bad or at least big contracts.)
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#7 » by sh0ck » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:15 pm

That doesn't sound like a team that's going to trade Butler in the off season...

But I don't know if this makes me feel better or worse. Things to "look forward" to next year

- Fred does NOT get canned in the off season, but makes it 1/4 way through the 2017-2018 season before getting fired (Merry Xmas Freddie!). God willing, Gar follows him and scorches Earth by releasing a ton of juicy Bulls rumors
- Wade opts in because of the 23 million, causes such a stir that he forces a mid-season trade to a semi-contending playoff team (for pretty much nothing)
- Jimmy is not traded, plays amazing in the first half of 2017-2018 (especially after they say goodbye to Hoiberg), becomes completely disillusioned by the team's lack of direction, only to be compounded by Wade's departure.
- Bulls go after more bargain bin/rentals in the off season, and put together the NBA's worst shooting team 2 years in a row with some big named non-shooting players, while spinning "cap flexibility" and "2018 FA plan" while building "WITH Jimmy Butler, but not around him."
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#8 » by fleet » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:20 pm

Bulls03 wrote:
fleet wrote:So veterans don't respect Hoiberg. He has a great future. So does the franchise, because all we need to do is find some dumb rookies to win a ring for the team.


What do you mean find some? We already have our championship core intact.

Payne-Val-Zipser-Portis-Felicio

Rondo-Wade-Butler-Niko-Lopez are just holding them back.

Damn silly veterans. The Bulls strategy of putting all their eggs into the free agency market would seem to contradict the Hoiberg employment. Just an observation. Fingers crossed this summer?
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#9 » by Stratmaster » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:51 pm

If Rondo, Wade and Butler aren't willing to run the plays the head coach calls, or play the game plan the coach wants...get rid of all 3 of them. Rondo is gone anyway, Wade needs to be.Butler doesn't know what is best for him and the team enough to make those decisions even if he had the authority.

This would explain the constant buddy ball with Fred constantly talking about moving the ball after losses.

I'm honestly sick of all of them. I would rather watch anyone other than Wade and Butler play basketball right now.
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#10 » by Stratmaster » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:57 pm

I firmly believe the Bulls have managed to put together a coach and a collection of players who are the whiniest, most fragile wimps I have ever seen compete in professional sports. They at the same time have the biggest egos yet most fragile psyches of any people I have ever seen. They could keep a psych class busy for a whole semester using them as a case study.

I'm sick of trying to decide who is at fault. Get rid of Hoiberg, Rondo, Butler, Wade, Niko, Portis, Forman and Paxson and start it all over. I added Portis just because he doesn't seem to give a damn about anything.

Bunch of entitled wimpy jack asses getting paid to play a kids game and whining and bitching the whole time.
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#11 » by realEAST » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:20 pm

I can see Bulls bring back McDermott, "on a reasonable deal".

Even if they will have had a shot at any serious FA in 2018, I wouldn't be surprised if they would low ball themselfs out of a deal, counting on "buyers market".

Next stop, plan 2020 - assesing and developing youth and planning to pull Riley hattrick in "never stronger and more favourable FA market where we'll have a lot of flexibility".
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#12 » by Stratmaster » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:20 pm

Oh, not to mention the internet gossipmongers who pose as reporters. When did we become a society that can't live without 140 characters sent to gossip and try to tear down people, organizations and institutions. Everyone wants to either be the media or be the subject of the media. I'm beginning to think the less I read about my favorite sports and teams the better because the discussion has gone into the gutter and the players and participants have now dipped down to the same level.

Thank goodness for the Cubs. A sport and players you can actually like.
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#13 » by drosestruts » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:30 pm

Stratmaster wrote:Oh, not to mention the internet gossipmongers who pose as reporters. When did we become a society that can't live without 140 characters sent to gossip and try to tear down people, organizations and institutions. Everyone wants to either be the media or be the subject of the media. I'm beginning to think the less I read about my favorite sports and teams the better because the discussion has gone into the gutter and the players and participants have now dipped down to the same level.

Thank goodness for the Cubs. A sport and players you can actually like.


Just wait, the contract demands and divaish attitudes are coming to the Cubbies. You don't make it this far in any sport without an ego, and with that comes desire to be paid what your worth (not unfair yet routinely criticized by fans due to it being so much more than they'll ever make), and to be recognized as "the man".

Also important to note, winning cures all. With the Cubs, everything is all good. Madden makes bad bullpen decisions, doesn't matter, they won. When things start going the other way, your start looking more like the Washington Nationals.
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#14 » by johnnyvann840 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:31 pm

Stratmaster wrote:Oh, not to mention the internet gossipmongers who pose as reporters. When did we become a society that can't live without 140 characters sent to gossip and try to tear down people, organizations and institutions. Everyone wants to either be the media or be the subject of the media. I'm beginning to think the less I read about my favorite sports and teams the better because the discussion has gone into the gutter and the players and participants have now dipped down to the same level.

Thank goodness for the Cubs. A sport and players you can actually like.


You sound like an old man yelling at the clouds. However, I 100% agree with you. It's sickening and it's the beginning of the end, my friend.
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#15 » by GimmeDat » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:32 pm

So tired of hearing managements delusional plans.
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#16 » by realEAST » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:37 pm

I think it is just a beginning
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#17 » by drosestruts » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:38 pm

Back on track, mark me as opposed to this recycled "Have cap space improve through free agency" plan.

A) Because it has a low success rate

B) It's boring and wasteful to the present

C) These are the 2018 free agents:

Durant
Dirk
Wade
Brook Lopez
DeMarcus Cousins
Pau Gasol
Tony Parker
Rudy Gay
Derrick Favors
Trevor Ariza
Avery Bradley
Jabari Parker
Andrew Wiggins
Nick Young
Dante Exum
Julius Randle
Seth Curry
Doug McDermott
Rodney Hood
....other uninteresting names
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#18 » by johnnyvann840 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:39 pm

realEAST wrote:I think it is just a beginning


the beginning of what?
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#19 » by Stratmaster » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:42 pm

drosestruts wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:Oh, not to mention the internet gossipmongers who pose as reporters. When did we become a society that can't live without 140 characters sent to gossip and try to tear down people, organizations and institutions. Everyone wants to either be the media or be the subject of the media. I'm beginning to think the less I read about my favorite sports and teams the better because the discussion has gone into the gutter and the players and participants have now dipped down to the same level.

Thank goodness for the Cubs. A sport and players you can actually like.


Just wait, the contract demands and divaish attitudes are coming to the Cubbies. You don't make it this far in any sport without an ego, and with that comes desire to be paid what your worth (not unfair yet routinely criticized by fans due to it being so much more than they'll ever make), and to be recognized as "the man".

Also important to note, winning cures all. With the Cubs, everything is all good. Madden makes bad bullpen decisions, doesn't matter, they won. When things start going the other way, your start looking more like the Washington Nationals.


i just haven't seen the level of soap opera as high in baseball. There is a player here and there who acts like a douche but not the majority like in the NBA. Reporters are always looking for a scoop but I don't see the same kind of destructive internet "journalism" like with the NBA.
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Re: Ken Berger on the Bulls 

Post#20 » by johnnyvann840 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:42 pm

drosestruts wrote:Back on track, mark me as opposed to this recycled "Have cap space improve through free agency" plan.

A) Because it has a low success rate

B) It's boring and wasteful to the present

C) These are the 2018 free agents:

Durant
Dirk
Wade
Brook Lopez
DeMarcus Cousins
Pau Gasol
Tony Parker
Rudy Gay
Derrick Favors
Trevor Ariza
Avery Bradley
Jabari Parker
Andrew Wiggins
Nick Young
Dante Exum
Julius Randle
Seth Curry
Doug McDermott
Rodney Hood
....other uninteresting names


I agree..... Every player on that list will be either too old, or not good enough to sign or overpay for. No chance of Durant coming here..... the rest of the list is a joke. We better hit on draft gold or we focked
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