Luka Doncic

[Kolkmania]

I get the point, rules allow more penetration in the NBA in comparison with Euroleague e.g. and I totally agree with that statement. However, besides the different rules, there's also a huge discrepancy between the level of athleticism at the perimeter.
I think the latter outweighs the advantages in rules for the somewhat sluggish players. That's why Ricky Rubio for example does excel in the NBA in comparison with the national team. He's quick and shifty, unlike Sergio Rodriguez and current Luka Doncic.

Btw, I'm not saying that Doncic is a mediocre prospect, but the ability to penetrate the defense could make the difference between potential all-star level and a Joe Ingles impact (who's really good). That means he'll be a wing with stretching abilities who gets regular opportunities to create out of the P&R.

[Bob8]

All that stuff about rules and officiating goes out the window when you consider the massive talent difference of the players. NBA competition is on a totally different level than Euroleague. It's why Euroleague legends like Vassilis Spanoulis were bonafide scrubs against the big boys in the NBA. Same goes for a Euroleague MVP in Sergio Rodriguez. Also on the other end, why an NBA scrub in the 400s in scoring like Shane Larkin is hovering around top 15 in Euroleague scoring. Doncic is an outstanding prospect but there is plenty of reason to wonder how his game will translate against the vastly better NBA competition.

Larkin has good stats only because he played a lot of minutes, because he doesn't have adequate backup. Here you have players Index Rating per 40 minutes and you can see Doncic is 2nd, Larkin 39th.
http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=Single&seasoncode=E2016&cat=Valuation&agg=PerMinute

points scored per 40 minutes, Doncic 51th, Larkin 54th.
http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=Single&seasoncode=E2016&cat=Score&agg=PerMinute&page=2

assists, Doncic 4th, Larkin 10th.
http://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=Single&seasoncode=E2016&cat=Assistances&agg=PerMinute

In Real Larkin's stats would have been much lower.

[Bob8]

I get the point, rules allow more penetration in the NBA in comparison with Euroleague e.g. and I totally agree with that statement. However, besides the different rules, there's also a huge discrepancy between the level of athleticism at the perimeter.
I think the latter outweighs the advantages in rules for the somewhat sluggish players. That's why Ricky Rubio for example does excel in the NBA in comparison with the national team. He's quick and shifty, unlike Sergio Rodriguez and current Luka Doncic.

Btw, I'm not saying that Doncic is a mediocre prospect, but the ability to penetrate the defense could make the difference between potential all-star level and a Joe Ingles impact (who's really good). That means he'll be a wing with stretching abilities who gets regular opportunities to create out of the P&R.

Joe Ingles Euroleague stats. http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=003062#!careerstats

Luka Doncic this years stats. http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=005929

Even if we forget Doncic had this stats being only 17 years old, we can see huge difference between this two players. And I really can't understand how you can compare this two? Btw he has better stats. in Nba than in Euroleague.

[Kolkmania]

I get the point, rules allow more penetration in the NBA in comparison with Euroleague e.g. and I totally agree with that statement. However, besides the different rules, there's also a huge discrepancy between the level of athleticism at the perimeter.
I think the latter outweighs the advantages in rules for the somewhat sluggish players. That's why Ricky Rubio for example does excel in the NBA in comparison with the national team. He's quick and shifty, unlike Sergio Rodriguez and current Luka Doncic.

Btw, I'm not saying that Doncic is a mediocre prospect, but the ability to penetrate the defense could make the difference between potential all-star level and a Joe Ingles impact (who's really good). That means he'll be a wing with stretching abilities who gets regular opportunities to create out of the P&R.

Joe Ingles Euroleague stats. http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=003062#!careerstats

Luka Doncic this years stats. http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=005929

Even if we forget Doncic had this stats being only 17 years old, we can see huge difference between this two players. And I really can't understand how you can compare this two?

I'm not talking about that Joe Ingles, I'm talking about 29 year old Ingles who's thriving in the Jazz motion offense and is a positive contributor on a dark hose for the championship.

[Bob8]

I get the point, rules allow more penetration in the NBA in comparison with Euroleague e.g. and I totally agree with that statement. However, besides the different rules, there's also a huge discrepancy between the level of athleticism at the perimeter.
I think the latter outweighs the advantages in rules for the somewhat sluggish players. That's why Ricky Rubio for example does excel in the NBA in comparison with the national team. He's quick and shifty, unlike Sergio Rodriguez and current Luka Doncic.

Btw, I'm not saying that Doncic is a mediocre prospect, but the ability to penetrate the defense could make the difference between potential all-star level and a Joe Ingles impact (who's really good). That means he'll be a wing with stretching abilities who gets regular opportunities to create out of the P&R.

Joe Ingles Euroleague stats. http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=003062#!careerstats

Luka Doncic this years stats. http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=005929

Even if we forget Doncic had this stats being only 17 years old, we can see huge difference between this two players. And I really can't understand how you can compare this two?

I'm not talking about that Joe Ingles, I'm talking about 29 year old Ingles who's thriving in the Jazz motion offense and is a positive contributor on a dark hose for the championship.

O.k . Sorry, my mistake. Isn't he the same player?

[UcanUwill]

Really awesome game between Real and Panathinaikos so far. Super athletic, very watchable game, some of the best Euroleague has to offer. Anyone who claims top college teams are more athletic and have better measurements is just flat out clueless. Randolph, Hunter, Gist, Gabriel are athletic freaks.
By contrast, Doncic really looks unathletic in this game. Very quite so far, I hope he figures out how to contribute in this, big test for him IMO.

[Mirotic12]

Really awesome game between Real and Panathinaikos so far. Super athletic, very watchable game, some of the best Euroleague has to offer. Anyone who claims top college teams are more athletic and have better measurements is just flat out clueless. Randolph, Hunter, Gist, Gabriel are athletic freaks.
By contrast, Doncic really looks unathletic in this game. Very quite so far, I hope he figures out how to contribute in this, big test for him IMO.

For a screen roll guard, playing against a team like Panathinaikos is a lot different than playing against Spanish teams, and most EuroLeague teams. Panathinaikos is built almost entirely on how to match with Olympiacos (so they are almost all about size, length, defense, and athleticism), and how to be able to defend Spanoulis (so all those Gabriel, Singleton, Gist type guys used to cover in switches and screen roll). Llull saw just a slight amount of the the defense Spanoulis gets, and even without the double team part of that, he wasn't the same.

That team is built to stop Spanoulis, and so it makes it really hard for guys like Doncic, against a team like that.

About the NCAA teams having taller, longer, better athletes than EuroLeague teams...just ignore those comments. To anyone that has ever actually seen a NCAA and EuroLeague game, they know it simply isn't true, and that's it's just ridiculous and absurd.

[UcanUwill]

Very disappointing loss. Llull can be so garbage at times, turning it over like a kid. Anyone who says Llull is best player in Europe, should be punched in the dick by Teodosic and DeColo.

[Mirotic12]

Very disappointing loss. Llull can be so garbage at times, turning it over like a kid. Anyone who says Llull is best player in Europe, should be punched in the dick by Teodosic and DeColo.

That team is designed to defend Spanoulis..so that's the hardest defense against a lead guard any team in EuroLeague has. Llull is a great player (4th best in Europe), he's just wildly inconsistent with his outside shot. He's probably the streakiest 3 point shooter I've ever seen.

It's like he can go 10-10 or 0-10, hell 12-15, or 0-15. The streakiness of his shooting is ridiculous, and Laso allows all his ball handlers to do whatever they want basically. So Llull will win several games, and he will lose several games. The guy is an ultimate chucker without any conscience on his shot attempts. When he is cold from outside, his team will have to deal with a lot of bricks being taken.

However, no way in hell Real Madrid could even think about winning EuroLeague without Llull. Their offensive firepower is way to based on playing off someone else. They basically have one great individual scorer in Llull, and that's it. No great creator either, although Doncic and Rudy are very good at that. Without Llull, they couldn't beat the top EuroLeague teams in big games. They really miss Sergio Rodriguez on offense. They are obviously better on defense without him, but on offense they just don't operate the same way. Rodriguez's ball handling, shooting and passing are all missing from that team, and it constantly shows up any time they play a good team in a big game.

[peja_the_legend]

Really awesome game between Real and Panathinaikos so far. Super athletic, very watchable game, some of the best Euroleague has to offer. Anyone who claims top college teams are more athletic and have better measurements is just flat out clueless. Randolph, Hunter, Gist, Gabriel are athletic freaks.
By contrast, Doncic really looks unathletic in this game. Very quite so far, I hope he figures out how to contribute in this, big test for him IMO.

Except for Randolph who has freakish lentgh i'd hardly call any of the other players as athletic freaks..For european standards,maybe.In NCAA/NBA the likes of Gist/Gabriel would be medium athletes.Nothing extraordinary.

I do agree that's Doncic lacks explosiveness.It's obvious and some matchups expose this weakness more than others.The hype has kinda cooled down the last month,his performances arent anything to write home about.

[Bob8]

Really awesome game between Real and Panathinaikos so far. Super athletic, very watchable game, some of the best Euroleague has to offer. Anyone who claims top college teams are more athletic and have better measurements is just flat out clueless. Randolph, Hunter, Gist, Gabriel are athletic freaks.
By contrast, Doncic really looks unathletic in this game. Very quite so far, I hope he figures out how to contribute in this, big test for him IMO.

For a screen roll guard, playing against a team like Panathinaikos is a lot different than playing against Spanish teams, and most EuroLeague teams. Panathinaikos is built almost entirely on how to match with Olympiacos (so they are almost all about size, length, defense, and athleticism), and how to be able to defend Spanoulis (so all those Gabriel, Singleton, Gist type guys used to cover in switches and screen roll). Llull saw just a slight amount of the the defense Spanoulis gets, and even without the double team part of that, he wasn't the same.

That team is built to stop Spanoulis, and so it makes it really hard for guys like Doncic, against a team like that.

About the NCAA teams having taller, longer, better athletes than EuroLeague teams...just ignore those comments. To anyone that has ever actually seen a NCAA and EuroLeague game, they know it simply isn't true, and that's it's just ridiculous and absurd.

Only in Oaka. Panathinaikos is different team away. And Spanoulis is just older every day and he can't do what he did before. Every away game in Euroleague is very difficult, I wouldn't make too many conclusions after this one. Real plays on Saturday in Acb, and then double Euroleague week, against Barcelona and Olympiacos. Crazy schedule.

[Bob8]

Really awesome game between Real and Panathinaikos so far. Super athletic, very watchable game, some of the best Euroleague has to offer. Anyone who claims top college teams are more athletic and have better measurements is just flat out clueless. Randolph, Hunter, Gist, Gabriel are athletic freaks.
By contrast, Doncic really looks unathletic in this game. Very quite so far, I hope he figures out how to contribute in this, big test for him IMO.

Except for Randolph who has freakish lentgh i'd hardly call any of the other players as athletic freaks..For european standards,maybe.In NCAA/NBA the likes of Gist/Gabriel would be medium athletes.Nothing extraordinary.

I do agree that's Doncic lacks explosiveness.It's obvious and some matchups expose this weakness more than others.The hype has kinda cooled down the last month,his performances arent anything to write home about.

I wonder what did Doncic to you, you're always here when he doesn't have the best game and never when he has? Problems with his dad maybe? Don't you think that playing 80 games in a season will normally bring some not the best ones. Even the best Nba players don't play 80 great games.

[Mirotic12]

Except for Randolph who has freakish lentgh i'd hardly call any of the other players as athletic freaks..For european standards,maybe.In NCAA/NBA the likes of Gist/Gabriel would be medium athletes.Nothing extraordinary.

I do agree that's Doncic lacks explosiveness.It's obvious and some matchups expose this weakness more than others.The hype has kinda cooled down the last month,his performances arent anything to write home about.

Yes, and in NCAA, LeBron would be barely above your average mid major small forward athletically...

I also love how you equate NCAA with NBA athletically, which is absurd.

Please, next time make use of the green font.

Only in Oaka. Panathinaikos is different team away. And Spanoulis is just older every day and he can't do what he did before. Every away game in Euroleague is very difficult, I wouldn't make too many conclusions after this one. Real plays on Saturday in Acb, and then double Euroleague week, against Barcelona and Olympiacos. Crazy schedule.

Only in OAKA what? I never said anything about Panathinaikos being a better team or anything. It would be a big success for them to make the final four. Real is also a better team, but they have a bad match up with them. But playing on the road or at home, Panathinaikos is the most athletic team in Europe, and that's why they are a bad match up for Real Madrid, which is so based on offense skill. Spanoulis does what he always did. He played the last 3 months with a severe thigh injury (that requires a year to fully heal), nothing about age. Before that he was playing great, and he played great in the first game back from the injury also last week against Darussafaka, where he was clearly the best player on the court for either team.

[Bob8]

Except for Randolph who has freakish lentgh i'd hardly call any of the other players as athletic freaks..For european standards,maybe.In NCAA/NBA the likes of Gist/Gabriel would be medium athletes.Nothing extraordinary.

I do agree that's Doncic lacks explosiveness.It's obvious and some matchups expose this weakness more than others.The hype has kinda cooled down the last month,his performances arent anything to write home about.

Yes, and in NCAA, LeBron would be barely above your average mid major small forward athletically...

I also love how you equate NCAA with NBA athletically, which is absurd.

Please, next time make use of the green font.

Only in Oaka. Panathinaikos is different team away. And Spanoulis is just older every day and he can't do what he did before. Every away game in Euroleague is very difficult, I wouldn't make too many conclusions after this one. Real plays on Saturday in Acb, and then double Euroleague week, against Barcelona and Olympiacos. Crazy schedule.

Only in OAKA what? I never said anything about Panathinaikos being a better team or anything. It would be a big success for them to make the final four. Real is also a better team, but they have a bad match up with them. But playing on the road or at home, Panathinaikos is the most athletic team in Europe, and that's why they are a bad match up for Real Madrid, which is so based on offense skill. Spanoulis does what he always did. He played the last 3 months with a severe thigh injury (that requires a year to fully heal), nothing about age. Before that he was playing great, and he played great in the first game back from the injury also last week against Darussafaka, where he was clearly the best player on the court for either team.

Panathinaikos plays like that only in OAKA. They have 15 wins but only 3 away, against the worst teams in Euroleague, Galatasaray, Armani and Brose.

And stop this nonsense about Spanoulis. He had grade 2 muscle strain. normally 2-3 weeks out, but he made a mistake and didn't stop immediately. One year? If you tear your muscle completely, you're not out for 1 year and believe me you can't play with torn muscle(rupture).

I watched the game against Darussafaka. Wanamaker was amazing, Spanoulis was good only in last 5 minutes. Here are the stats,

http://www.euroleague.net/main/results/showgame?gamecode=200&seasoncode=E2016#!boxscore

[GlenRiceARoni]

Man Doncic really leaps off the screen for me. He looks like a man amongst boys and then you find out he's the boy!

I'm a Hornets fan so immediately I see the comparison to Nic Batum's game. A solid all around player whose game is more predicated on skill than athleticism.

I think he's a lock for a top 3 pick in 2018.

I really see his niche as a great secondary playmaker to have on the wing. Let the PG probe the defense and get the ball to Doncic in various manners where he already has a leg up on the defense rather than Doncic forcing most of the action himself.

I agree with the assessment that he doesn't have the ceiling of a lebron, durant, Anthony Davis type prospect but he sure has a can't miss feel to him.

When I say he reminds me of Nic Batum I mean like he looks like he could practically slide in for Batum right now... he's got a heck of a lot of upside left.



-------------------------------------------------------------------
Excited about the Playoffs now that Durant has given other teams a fighting chance

[UcanUwill]

Except for Randolph who has freakish lentgh i'd hardly call any of the other players as athletic freaks..For european standards,maybe.In NCAA/NBA the likes of Gist/Gabriel would be medium athletes.Nothing extraordinary.

Ha, dont make me laugh. I would probably say Randolph might be least athletic out of all these players mentioned, he just has best measurements. Gist also has great measurements tho.

I wonder what did Doncic to you, you're always here when he doesn't have the best game and never when he has? Problems with his dad maybe? Don't you think that playing 80 games in a season will normally bring some not the best ones. Even the best Nba players don't play 80 great games.

Doncic had a bad game, and we probably shouldn't over analyze it, but that being said, this is what I afraid could happen in the NBA. He faced superior athletes and just looked a bit too slow. Its easy to dominate unathletic teams like Zalgiris, but against PAO yesterday he was kinda exposed I thought. He still had 2 great assists, but other than that, struggled on both ends.

[BillyKingGM]

Of course 90% of the teams in the NCAA aren't as athletic as Panathinaikos... 90% of the teams in Euroleague aren't as athletic as them!

There are 300+ teams in the NCAA, of course the talent differential is just as huge as it in the EL. You can't compare entire leagues, the best way to break it down would be to take the top 10 or so most athletic teams and compare them. Is Panathinaikos more athletic than Kentucky this year? No. No they are not.

[UcanUwill]

Of course 90% of the teams in the NCAA aren't as athletic as Panathinaikos... 90% of the teams in Euroleague aren't as athletic as them!

There are 300+ teams in the NCAA, of course the talent differential is just as huge as it in the EL. You can't compare entire leagues, the best way to break it down would be to take the top 10 or so most athletic teams and compare them. Is Panathinaikos more athletic than Kentucky this year? No. No they are not.

Some Euroleague teams are unathletic, and most Euro non Euroleague teams are really unathletic. But most athletic teams like Pao are really athletic. I think they can easily compare with teams like Kentucky. Some players really surprised me, like Gabriel, I had no idea he had such hops and acrobat skills. Lots of good talent in that game, it was very watchable.

[XTraderXL]

Doncic has apparently been playing hurt for the past 2 weeks. He has a problem with his hamstring, nothing serious. Thats why he has been getting a little less playing time in the last few games...

[Mirotic12]

Panathinaikos plays like that only in OAKA. They have 15 wins but only 3 away, against the worst teams in Euroleague, Galatasaray, Armani and Brose.

And stop this nonsense about Spanoulis. He had grade 2 muscle strain. normally 2-3 weeks out, but he made a mistake and didn't stop immediately. One year? If you tear your muscle completely, you're not out for 1 year and believe me you can't play with torn muscle(rupture).

I watched the game against Darussafaka. Wanamaker was amazing, Spanoulis was good only in last 5 minutes. Here are the stats,

http://www.euroleague.net/main/results/showgame?gamecode=200&seasoncode=E2016#!boxscore

Why are you talking about Panathinaikos playing in OAKA? The point has nothing to do with them winning the game or being better than Real or anything. It's that they are a bad match up for any lead guard driven team. You are arguing about something that is not even being discussed.

The discussion isn't about who is a better team, it's about how Doncic can match up against what is probably the most athletic team in Europe, or certainly one of the most athletic. And no, the athletic level of the team does not change because they are on the road. Their quality of play drops, mainly because the refs always help them at home (the hooligans and their owner always intimidate the refs to a ridiculous degree that would never be allowed in NBA for example). But you don't get less athletic on the road, and more athletic at home, so I'm not sure why it matters that the game was at Athens. Yes, they are a bad road team, which isn't at all pertinent to what was being discussed here.

The injury you note for Spanoulis is a totally different injury. I'm talking about an injury he got about 3 months ago, where he tore the abductor muscles in his right upper thigh. Without surgery it takes about a year to fully heal. Just because you didn't know he has been playing with that injury, does not mean it does not exist. It's a totally different injury.