Political Roundtable Part XIII

[tontoz]

It would also involve significant reductions and risk and insurance costs on the part of the doctors. So its not all bad for them. Many health care systems are doing horrific in the US market. The fact that insurance companies are making BANK is not improving personal health or our systems' health. Ideally, a single payer system would cover basic health care and allow for a premium insurance model.

Tell that to the people in Canada who routinely come here for treatment, or have to wait indefinitely to get treatment in Canada.

My mom has already gone through two successful treatments of proton therapy, each lasting several weeks, for cancer. Proton therapy is an alternative to radiation therapy with far fewer side effects. She got treatment only 90 minutes from her home.

Good luck getting proton therapy in Canada. I doubt they have a proton machine in the entire country.

You might want to show that healthcare companies are one of the lowest margin groups out there. So much for making huge bank.

Yeah but more competition would force them to put more pricing pressure on providers.

I have worked on the same contract for 10 years but ownership of it has changed hands three times. I can't say who I work for now but I was shocked to see some of the "preferred provider rates". The first thing that came to mind was that these people are weak negotiators, maybe even worse than EG lol.

That was before I ran across claims where we actually paid more than the charge amount There were cases where our "negotiated rate" was actually more than the provider's charge and our electronic processing system was designed to read the negotiated rate. We actually had to reprogram the system to flag cases like this so they wouldn't auto adjudicate. Then we could use the charge as the negotiated rate.

[dckingsfan]

Either way - it is hopelessly broken and here we are talking about ACA or no ACA and ignoring the real problem(s). Sigh.

[Kanyewest]

It would also involve significant reductions and risk and insurance costs on the part of the doctors. So its not all bad for them. Many health care systems are doing horrific in the US market. The fact that insurance companies are making BANK is not improving personal health or our systems' health. Ideally, a single payer system would cover basic health care and allow for a premium insurance model.

Tell that to the people in Canada who routinely come here for treatment, or have to wait indefinitely to get treatment in Canada.

My mom has already gone through two successful treatments of proton therapy, each lasting several weeks, for cancer. Proton therapy is an alternative to radiation therapy with far fewer side effects. She got treatment only 90 minutes from her home.

Good luck getting proton therapy in Canada. I doubt they have a proton machine in the entire country.

You might want to show that healthcare companies are one of the lowest margin groups out there. So much for making huge bank.

There are a lot of extraneous costs for it being a profit industry including marketing/sales, bureaucratic costs, CEO/employee salaries. But you are right it isn't solely on the insurance companies; hospitals/medical practices/drug companies cost more than any other parts of the world.

[sfam]

Fox News distances itself from Fox News reporting that Obama asked the UK government to wiretap Trump (last 10 seconds or so).

Watch on YouTube

Trump thinks its fine to respond he was just passing this on. Why would we care what he says? There is no responsibility for him to verify his sources I suppose. I mean who is he to be believed?

[sfam]

It would also involve significant reductions and risk and insurance costs on the part of the doctors. So its not all bad for them. Many health care systems are doing horrific in the US market. The fact that insurance companies are making BANK is not improving personal health or our systems' health. Ideally, a single payer system would cover basic health care and allow for a premium insurance model.

Tell that to the people in Canada who routinely come here for treatment, or have to wait indefinitely to get treatment in Canada.

My mom has already gone through two successful treatments of proton therapy, each lasting several weeks, for cancer. Proton therapy is an alternative to radiation therapy with far fewer side effects. She got treatment only 90 minutes from her home.

Good luck getting proton therapy in Canada. I doubt they have a proton machine in the entire country.

Yes, anecdotes are a great way to come up with policy. I'm sure Brietbart is filled with stories such as this.

Here's an anecdote based on a poll. Apparently there is massive support for public health care in Canada, even if there are horrific stories of people close to the border choosing an alternative.

- An overwhelming 94-percent of Canadians support public - not private, for-profit - solutions to making the country's healthcare system stronger - with an equal number of Conservatives flying the banner for public health care.

If I wanted to tell that to the people of Canada as you suggest, I would need to search for that 6% who agree with you I suppose.

EDIT: Best of luck for your Mom's treatment. If she ever moves to Canada, she can indeed try Proton therapy. This type of claim seems similar to the Republicans claiming Stephen Hawking would be dead if on public health care. Hawking of course lives in the UK, and has been kept alive on public health care.

Again though, we have things like Aflac there. That wouldn't change with a single payer.

[sfam]

Listening to all the hard luck stories hear about the travails of health insurance companies, its so sad to hear how poor off they are. Apparently there is widespread lies online, as many stories apparently are talking about record profits. Here's one of many

Consider UnitedHealth, the nation's largest health insurer that is leaving the marketplace next year. UnitedHealth claims that Obamacare has reduced its 2016 earnings by $850 million. While they might have $850 million less than they wanted, UntedHealth’s profits are still soaring.

In fact, UnitedHealth announced record-breaking profits in 2015, followed by an even better year this year. In July 2016, UnitedHealth celebrated revenues that quarter totalling $46.5 billion, an increase of $10 billion since the same time last year. And company filings show that UnitedHealth’s CEO Stephen J. Hemsley made over $20 million in 2015. To be fair, that is a pay cut. The previous year, in 2014, Hemsley took home $66 million in compensation.

"If you look at our Proxy, the Board lays out in extensive detail, in great detail, the thinking behind both CEO and executive compensation,” UnitedHealth executive Don Nathan tells ConsumerAffairs.

“At his request, Mr. Hemsley’s total compensation is below the median for CEOs in the Company’s peer group,” the proxy statement says, “even though the Board believes his performance has been outstanding."

In other words, Hemsley is far from being the only health insurance CEO making millions of dollars every year.

Sky-high profits
Aetna, whose CEO Mark Bertolini reported to the Securities and Exchange Commission a $27.9 million compensation in 2015, has similarly celebrated sky-high profits. “In 2015, we reported annual operating revenue of over $60.3 billion, a record for the Company,” Aetna recently told investors.

Aetna spokesman T.J. Crawford wrote a brief statement to ConsumerAffairs describing the company's losses under Obamacare: “As updated on our Q3 earnings call last week, we now expect a 2016 pretax loss in our individual products (on- and off-exchange) of approximately $350 million,” he said via email, otherwise directing questions to a company press release.

Thanks to the insurance industry’s combination of record profits in recent years and increasing premiums, people on both sides of the political aisle have criticized the Affordable Care Act as being more beneficial to the insurance industry than consumers, though politicians remain deeply divided on what a good, viable alternative would entail.

Here's another

A Salon analysis of regulatory filings found that the top five health insurers — UnitedHealth, Anthem, Aetna, Humana and Cigna — have doled out nearly $30 billion in stock buybacks and dividends from 2013 to 2015. (The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Affordable Care Act in 2012.)

We force everyone to have health care and claim the health insurance industry is barely making money? Doesn't really follow common sense, or apparently, some analysis out there.

[DCZards]

Again, I would be open to a single payer. But you would have to fix the underlying issues for it to work. But, if you fix the underlying issues - either system would work.

That was why the ACA was such a waste.

A waste? Tell that to the millions of people who finally have healthcare coverage because of ACA. Tell that to those Americans with pre-existing conditions who now have coverage because of ACA. Tell that to my nieces who are able to remain on my brother's healthcare plan until the age of 26 because of ACA.

Obamacare is flawed and has been from the outset. And, hopefully, it will be fixed. But "a waste?" I don't think so.

If nothing else, Obamacare has established the fundamental principle that ALL Americans should have access to quality, affordable healthcare...and that's a good thing, imo.

[sfam]

Again, I would be open to a single payer. But you would have to fix the underlying issues for it to work. But, if you fix the underlying issues - either system would work.

That was why the ACA was such a waste.

A waste? Tell that to the millions of people who finally have healthcare coverage because of ACA. Tell that to those Americans with pre-existing conditions who now have coverage because of ACA. Tell that to my nieces who are able to remain on my brother's healthcare plan until the age of 26 because of ACA.

Obamacare is flawed and has been from the outset. And, hopefully, it will be fixed. But "a waste?" I don't think so.

If nothing else, Obamacare has established the fundamental principle that ALL Americans should have access to quality, affordable healthcare...and that's a good thing, imo.

If the totality of what the ACA accomplished was shifting the belief that healthcare is a right instead of a privilege, it was worth its weight in gold. That over 20 million more people have healthcare makes it more than that.

The set of interests in health care make any policy change nightmarish. Whether or not the Republican plan makes sense (it doesn't), it will be insanely difficult to pass, no matter what was written. The Republicans say the ACA was voted on in the dead of night, but that was after more than a year of dialog, debate and everything else. It was never going to be easy, even if the roll-out was good, even if the President wasn't a crazed tweeting lunatic, even if the actual bill was good.

[dckingsfan]

Again, I would be open to a single payer. But you would have to fix the underlying issues for it to work. But, if you fix the underlying issues - either system would work.

That was why the ACA was such a waste.

A waste? Tell that to the millions of people who finally have healthcare coverage because of ACA. Tell that to those Americans with pre-existing conditions who now have coverage because of ACA. Tell that to my nieces who are able to remain on my brother's healthcare plan until the age of 26 because of ACA.

Obamacare is flawed and has been from the outset. And, hopefully, it will be fixed. But "a waste?" I don't think so.

If nothing else, Obamacare has established the fundamental principle that ALL Americans should have access to quality, affordable healthcare...and that's a good thing, imo.

If the totality of what the ACA accomplished was shifting the belief that healthcare is a right instead of a privilege, it was worth its weight in gold. That over 20 million more people have healthcare makes it more than that.

The set of interests in health care make any policy change nightmarish. Whether or not the Republican plan makes sense (it doesn't), it will be insanely difficult to pass, no matter what was written. The Republicans say the ACA was voted on in the dead of night, but that was after more than a year of dialog, debate and everything else. It was never going to be easy, even if the roll-out was good, even if the President wasn't a crazed tweeting lunatic, even if the actual bill was good.

It was a waste. It helped 24M people but put 250+M people at risk in the long-term. I forgot - short-term is good enough. In the next 10 years it creates an additional quarter billion shortfall and probably closer to a trillion dollar shortfall since the supposed saving that were built in will never get enacted.

So, within 20 years, CBO projects that entitlement spending plus interest -- which are the primary drivers of the country's long-term debt -- will suck up virtually every tax dollar coming into the federal government, up from 65% today. Name your program, and it is GONE! Help the UN, nope. Legal defense, nope. EPA, poof!

The ACA accelerated the process, so I stand by my statement. We had a chance to actually fix the underlying problems and we punted it down the field to the next generation. Epic fail.

And now we have Trump stumping on the campaign trail about the $20T deficit, bemoaning how bad it is and he doesn't even take a swing - sad. Another epic fail.

Neither the Ds or the Rs have any spine when they get into power. They know we are stupid as a collective whole.

EOR.

[sfam]

A waste? Tell that to the millions of people who finally have healthcare coverage because of ACA. Tell that to those Americans with pre-existing conditions who now have coverage because of ACA. Tell that to my nieces who are able to remain on my brother's healthcare plan until the age of 26 because of ACA.

Obamacare is flawed and has been from the outset. And, hopefully, it will be fixed. But "a waste?" I don't think so.

If nothing else, Obamacare has established the fundamental principle that ALL Americans should have access to quality, affordable healthcare...and that's a good thing, imo.

If the totality of what the ACA accomplished was shifting the belief that healthcare is a right instead of a privilege, it was worth its weight in gold. That over 20 million more people have healthcare makes it more than that.

The set of interests in health care make any policy change nightmarish. Whether or not the Republican plan makes sense (it doesn't), it will be insanely difficult to pass, no matter what was written. The Republicans say the ACA was voted on in the dead of night, but that was after more than a year of dialog, debate and everything else. It was never going to be easy, even if the roll-out was good, even if the President wasn't a crazed tweeting lunatic, even if the actual bill was good.

It was a waste. It helped 24M people but put 250+M people at risk in the long-term. I forgot - short-term is good enough. In the next 10 years it creates an additional quarter billion shortfall and probably closer to a trillion dollar shortfall since the supposed saving that were built in will never get enacted.

So, within 20 years, CBO projects that entitlement spending plus interest -- which are the primary drivers of the country's long-term debt -- will suck up virtually every tax dollar coming into the federal government, up from 65% today. Name your program, and it is GONE! Help the UN, nope. Legal defense, nope. EPA, poof!

The ACA accelerated the process, so I stand by my statement. We had a chance to actually fix the underlying problems and we punted it down the field to the next generation. Epic fail.

And now we have Trump stumping on the campaign trail about the $20T deficit, bemoaning how bad it is and he doesn't even take a swing - sad. Another epic fail.

Neither the Ds or the Rs have any spine when they get into power. They know we are stupid as a collective whole.

EOR.

No Obama's ACA is responsible for the overall entitlement spending problem? According to you, every piece of legislation in the past 25 years has exacerbated this problem (perhaps not the year or two in the 90s where there was positive cash flow?). Clearly we have long term issues - the largest problem that cannot be fixed being the fact our society is aging.

As for a chance to fix this, I don't know if this was from a movie, but not in actual reality back in 2008. This was not a possibility for reasons we have discussed continually. There is no way Obama could have passed what you are claiming was needed. That he passed anything on health care was pretty amazing.

[gtn130]

Hey Nate,

You said you would change your tune on Trump if it was proven he lied about Obama wiretapping him....

bump

[dckingsfan]

If the totality of what the ACA accomplished was shifting the belief that healthcare is a right instead of a privilege, it was worth its weight in gold. That over 20 million more people have healthcare makes it more than that.

The set of interests in health care make any policy change nightmarish. Whether or not the Republican plan makes sense (it doesn't), it will be insanely difficult to pass, no matter what was written. The Republicans say the ACA was voted on in the dead of night, but that was after more than a year of dialog, debate and everything else. It was never going to be easy, even if the roll-out was good, even if the President wasn't a crazed tweeting lunatic, even if the actual bill was good.

It was a waste. It helped 24M people but put 250+M people at risk in the long-term. I forgot - short-term is good enough. In the next 10 years it creates an additional quarter billion shortfall and probably closer to a trillion dollar shortfall since the supposed saving that were built in will never get enacted.

So, within 20 years, CBO projects that entitlement spending plus interest -- which are the primary drivers of the country's long-term debt -- will suck up virtually every tax dollar coming into the federal government, up from 65% today. Name your program, and it is GONE! Help the UN, nope. Legal defense, nope. EPA, poof!

The ACA accelerated the process, so I stand by my statement. We had a chance to actually fix the underlying problems and we punted it down the field to the next generation. Epic fail.

And now we have Trump stumping on the campaign trail about the $20T deficit, bemoaning how bad it is and he doesn't even take a swing - sad. Another epic fail.

Neither the Ds or the Rs have any spine when they get into power. They know we are stupid as a collective whole.

EOR.

No Obama's ACA is responsible for the overall entitlement spending problem? According to you, every piece of legislation in the past 25 years has exacerbated this problem (perhaps not the year or two in the 90s where there was positive cash flow?). Clearly we have long term issues - the largest problem that cannot be fixed being the fact our society is aging.

As for a chance to fix this, I don't know if this was from a movie, but not in actual reality back in 2008. This was not a possibility for reasons we have discussed continually. There is no way Obama could have passed what you are claiming was needed. That he passed anything on health care was pretty amazing.

Got it - no administration is responsible. No additive debt load is responsible. It's the other parties problem. There is NEVER a good time to make the hard choices. Guess I should give Trump a pass too.

[DCZards]

If the totality of what the ACA accomplished was shifting the belief that healthcare is a right instead of a privilege, it was worth its weight in gold. That over 20 million more people have healthcare makes it more than that.

We’ll probably debate for years how we pay for Obamacare (or future iterations of the law), the law’s impact on the deficit/taxes, and how to improve the law. But what’s not debatable is that an essential—some might say life-saving—principle has been established. It will likely go down as Pres. Obama’s most important and long-lasting achievement.

[tontoz]

EDIT: Best of luck for your Mom's treatment. If she ever moves to Canada, she can indeed try Proton therapy. This type of claim seems similar to the Republicans claiming Stephen Hawking would be dead if on public health care. Hawking of course lives in the UK, and has been kept alive on public health care.

Again though, we have things like Aflac there. That wouldn't change with a single payer.

Canada approved the used of a proton therapy machine 2 years ago so i wasnt far off. This from Feb 19, 2015.

Canada has cleared the way for the use of proton therapy in cancer.

The Mevion S250 proton therapy system has become the first such system to receive a medical device license from Health Canada, the federal department responsible for public health. This system is now approved to be installed at cancer facilities across the country, says the manufacturer.

My mom was already being treated 90 minutes from her house at that time. Canadians coming here for treatment is old news. So are obscene wait tiimes.

This failure is partially recognized in the CIHI report itself. By simply viewing the data from another angle we note that, overall, two out of 10 Canadians do not receive "priority procedures" within the remarkably long benchmarks used in the report (six months for hip and knee replacements, for example). Moreover, governments still do not generally report comprehensive and comparable information on wait times for most medically necessary procedures.

More detailed statistics from other sources paint an even grimmer picture. For example, the Fraser Institute's most recent wait times report finds that wait times (GP to treatment) have almost doubled since 1993. Worse, physicians report that patients generally wait almost three weeks longer than what they consider clinically reasonable (after consultation with a specialist).

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/bacchus-barua-/canada-health-care_b_9646872.html

Six month wait times?

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[sfam]

Read on Twitter

Wew! Was getting worried we might run out of new scandals!

[closg00]

Fox News distances itself from Fox News reporting that Obama asked the UK government to wiretap Trump (last 10 seconds or so).

Watch on YouTube

Trump thinks its fine to respond he was just passing this on. Why would we care what he says? There is no responsibility for him to verify his sources I suppose. I mean who is he to be believed?

I heard judge Napolitano's theory/speculation, what he was doing was trying to provide some cover for Trump. What the Trump folks are doing is transparent and insulting to our intelligence, they are scurrying around trying to buttress Trump's original outlandish claim by finding news articles about other surveillance and attaching it to Trumps claim...basically throwing stuff at the wall and hoping to sticks or muddy the waters.

[Illuminaire]

As someone who started off in the States, then moved to Canada later in life, I'll go ahead and provide more direct experience than simple anecdotes.

Universal healthcare in Canada means that the demand is extraordinarily high. I have had to wait for hours in an emergency room when my symptoms meant I might have a blood clot - and when I did get seen, I was placed on a spare bed outside of a room because they were full.

My wife has needed an MRI on her knee and probably surgery for years now, but we can't get a doctor to actually send her to a specialist. Since she can walk normally it's not serious enough to them. We could go to a lab out of pocket for the MRI, but then we'd still need a doctor to actually do something with the results. If we ever do get one to agree that the chronic pain she feels after exercising and the way her messed up knee twists and displaces her hip is medically significant enough to warrant a specialist, we will need to wait months before an appointment will be available.

There are many good things about the Canadian system. Medications are not terribly expensive in most cases. It seems that they've done a better job of bringing costs down then anywhere in the States that I am aware of. But there are weaknesses too, and some of them are more than just an annoyance.

For instance, right now I am actually unable to find a doctor within driving distance. That's not technically true - there is one family practice in my town taking on new patients. It's just that they have a terrible rating on every doctor review site I've found, so I made the call that it would be better to go without than to go with a legitimately bad doctor. But that's it. One guy taking on patients in a 50 KM radius around me. The healthcare is universal... if you can wait long enough, and if it's even available.

[tontoz]

As someone who started off in the States, then moved to Canada later in life, I'll go ahead and provide more direct experience than simple anecdotes.

Universal healthcare in Canada means that the demand is extraordinarily high. I have had to wait for hours in an emergency room when my symptoms meant I might have a blood clot - and when I did get seen, I was placed on a spare bed outside of a room because they were full.

My wife has needed an MRI on her knee and probably surgery for years now, but we can't get a doctor to actually send her to a specialist. Since she can walk normally it's not serious enough to them. We could go to a lab out of pocket for the MRI, but then we'd still need a doctor to actually do something with the results. If we ever do get one to agree that the chronic pain she feels after exercising and the way her messed up knee twists and displaces her hip is medically significant enough to warrant a specialist, we will need to wait months before an appointment will be available.

There are many good things about the Canadian system. Medications are not terribly expensive in most cases. It seems that they've done a better job of bringing costs down then anywhere in the States that I am aware of. But there are weaknesses too, and some of them are more than just an annoyance.

For instance, right now I am actually unable to find a doctor within driving distance. That's not technically true - there is one family practice in my town taking on new patients. It's just that they have a terrible rating on every doctor review site I've found, so I made the call that it would be better to go without than to go with a legitimately bad doctor. But that's it. One guy taking on patients in a 50 KM radius around me. The healthcare is universal... if you can wait long enough, and if it's even available.

Exactly. 'The fundamental flaw of single payer is obvious. A big reason that a lot of people go into medicine is to make good money. When gov't puts an artificial cap on the amount of money they can make they have less incentive to pursue medicine as a career. Medical device companies have less incentive to produce new, better products knowing that they won't be covered. And so on

[Benjammin]

Healthcare is like getting your car fixed. You'd love for it to be cheap, quick, and good but if you're getting two out of three you're doing well.

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