Around the League

[El Chivo]

Not a believing in Hilly or Benji but that certainly doesn't mean I'm gonna support the idea that the organisation made some crazy error by letting Crawford go

He can be useful in a specific role - one we don't have here for him!

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it's a fact that every organization in the league picks from d-league, give minutes to rookies and even second rounder. we are watching the same bull**** since last autumn, SVG only switches Harris and Leuer without a real ratio.

So you're telling me that the organisation with the largest pro scouting department is deliberately sitting on their hands?

Is it possible that what you don't know about Hilliard & Benji is more important than what you do know of random d league prospects?

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I don't care about what I don't know about Hilliard and Gbinije. They are 24 and 25 yo and they can't play.

SVG is losing the benefit of doubt.

[Alexander]

I can't speak for Gores, but I'd always want my third string to push the second, the bench to push the starters.
Perhaps Jordan Crawford would push Bullock and Johnson more than Gbinije and Hilliard. In that case, I wish we'd have him instead.
I'd also want to have NBA caliber players throughout the roster; if my 14th and 15th men are going to wash out after this contract is up, I'd rather find someone that could have some staying power.

#baffled Jordan Crawford had no staying power though!

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It's not even an endorsement of Jordan Crawford; nobody on this board is fanboying for him.

I understand that in real life you can't treat your roster like it's a fantasy team, and that there are costs and cons to letting players go.

The point is that we should always be looking to improve. If you can consolidate talent and improve the starting lineup, you do it. It's easier to consolidate talent when you have talent, and that requires a bench that pushes the starters. The 11th-15th man segment of the roster can be a lot of things: developmental, veteran leadership, experimental.

Gbinije and Hilliard don't have any real value. They aren't helping the Pistons and they probably wouldn't help other teams. I'd prefer to cycle them out and cycle two others in that COULD help the Pistons, either as experienced vets (they aren't), developmental prospects (they aren't), or experiments (Justin Harper, Quincy Miller types).

It's not about Jordan Crawford, it's that we have a few dead roster spots. We let the trade deadline pass without moving Reggie or Drummond, fine. What else can we do? This team isn't in a position where we can be satisfied with not tinkering.

[DBC10]

Yeah I think at this point we should stop drafting these old seniors and instead go for the most potential but somehow fell type of players. That's 2 for 2 so far in which Hilliard and Gbenejie type of players haven't even sniffed our rotation.

Easier said than done I know, but I'd prefer we start investing into euros

[Pharaoh]

I can't speak for Gores, but I'd always want my third string to push the second, the bench to push the starters.
Perhaps Jordan Crawford would push Bullock and Johnson more than Gbinije and Hilliard. In that case, I wish we'd have him instead.
I'd also want to have NBA caliber players throughout the roster; if my 14th and 15th men are going to wash out after this contract is up, I'd rather find someone that could have some staying power.

#baffled Jordan Crawford had no staying power though!

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It's not even an endorsement of Jordan Crawford; nobody on this board is fanboying for him.

I understand that in real life you can't treat your roster like it's a fantasy team, and that there are costs and cons to letting players go.

The point is that we should always be looking to improve. If you can consolidate talent and improve the starting lineup, you do it. It's easier to consolidate talent when you have talent, and that requires a bench that pushes the starters. The 11th-15th man segment of the roster can be a lot of things: developmental, veteran leadership, experimental.

Gbinije and Hilliard don't have any real value. They aren't helping the Pistons and they probably wouldn't help other teams. I'd prefer to cycle them out and cycle two others in that COULD help the Pistons, either as experienced vets (they aren't), developmental prospects (they aren't), or experiments (Justin Harper, Quincy Miller types).

It's not about Jordan Crawford, it's that we have a few dead roster spots. We let the trade deadline pass without moving Reggie or Drummond, fine. What else can we do? This team isn't in a position where we can be satisfied with not tinkering.

How do you know they aren't helping us? Do you see tje team in practice or on the bus or on the plane or in the locker room?

From all reports Hilly & Benji are mature guys, work hard & aren't problems.

This is another situation where what we see is 5% of the entire picture and reeks of grass is greener

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[El Chivo]

So basically we used two 2nd rounder to draft bus mates.

[Pharaoh]

So basically we used two 2nd rounder to draft bus mates.

Is that what I posted?

Maybe because they're mature hard working players they push the guys ahead of them in practice and in the gym?

WE don't know!

What we do know is that we have the largest pro scouting department in the league and if they could find better options for those spots they'd do it

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[El Chivo]

You are a believer, I believe in what I see, instead

[Alexander]

#baffled Jordan Crawford had no staying power though!

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It's not even an endorsement of Jordan Crawford; nobody on this board is fanboying for him.

I understand that in real life you can't treat your roster like it's a fantasy team, and that there are costs and cons to letting players go.

The point is that we should always be looking to improve. If you can consolidate talent and improve the starting lineup, you do it. It's easier to consolidate talent when you have talent, and that requires a bench that pushes the starters. The 11th-15th man segment of the roster can be a lot of things: developmental, veteran leadership, experimental.

Gbinije and Hilliard don't have any real value. They aren't helping the Pistons and they probably wouldn't help other teams. I'd prefer to cycle them out and cycle two others in that COULD help the Pistons, either as experienced vets (they aren't), developmental prospects (they aren't), or experiments (Justin Harper, Quincy Miller types).

It's not about Jordan Crawford, it's that we have a few dead roster spots. We let the trade deadline pass without moving Reggie or Drummond, fine. What else can we do? This team isn't in a position where we can be satisfied with not tinkering.

How do you know they aren't helping us? Do you see tje team in practice or on the bus or on the plane or in the locker room?

From all reports Hilly & Benji are mature guys, work hard & aren't problems.

This is another situation where what we see is 5% of the entire picture and reeks of grass is greener

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That's not a good argument from a place of logic. I can't prove something, you can't prove something the opposite, it doesn't strengthen your argument or weaken mine. If/when those three wash out of the league, I won't remember this conversation to tell you "I told you so", but I'm confident it'll happen soon.

I know that Hilliard has played 302 minutes. Bullock 296. Gbinije 32. Shooting guard is the position with the easiest path towards minutes on this team, and they haven't gotten many.
The Pistons haven't made a meaningful transaction since Beno Udrih, which was a response to injury. The entire season we've just sent players to the D League and back.
Those are the facts. This team as constructed is in danger of missing the playoffs and we haven't made a move whatsoever. I understand why we didn't/couldn't move the bigger fish, but man, Gbinije and Hilliard must be GREAT at spotting people in the weight room and must LOVE to play Uno on the team flights and must really HUSTLE during team practices!!!

[Pharaoh]

It's not even an endorsement of Jordan Crawford; nobody on this board is fanboying for him.

I understand that in real life you can't treat your roster like it's a fantasy team, and that there are costs and cons to letting players go.

The point is that we should always be looking to improve. If you can consolidate talent and improve the starting lineup, you do it. It's easier to consolidate talent when you have talent, and that requires a bench that pushes the starters. The 11th-15th man segment of the roster can be a lot of things: developmental, veteran leadership, experimental.

Gbinije and Hilliard don't have any real value. They aren't helping the Pistons and they probably wouldn't help other teams. I'd prefer to cycle them out and cycle two others in that COULD help the Pistons, either as experienced vets (they aren't), developmental prospects (they aren't), or experiments (Justin Harper, Quincy Miller types).

It's not about Jordan Crawford, it's that we have a few dead roster spots. We let the trade deadline pass without moving Reggie or Drummond, fine. What else can we do? This team isn't in a position where we can be satisfied with not tinkering.

How do you know they aren't helping us? Do you see tje team in practice or on the bus or on the plane or in the locker room?

From all reports Hilly & Benji are mature guys, work hard & aren't problems.

This is another situation where what we see is 5% of the entire picture and reeks of grass is greener

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That's not a good argument from a place of logic. I can't prove something, you can't prove something the opposite, it doesn't strengthen your argument or weaken mine. If/when those three wash out of the league, I won't remember this conversation to tell you "I told you so", but I'm confident it'll happen soon.

I know that Hilliard has played 302 minutes. Bullock 296. Gbinije 32. Shooting guard is the position with the easiest path towards minutes on this team, and they haven't gotten many.
The Pistons haven't made a meaningful transaction since Beno Udrih, which was a response to injury. The entire season we've just sent players to the D League and back.
Those are the facts. This team as constructed is in danger of missing the playoffs and we haven't made a move whatsoever. I understand why we didn't/couldn't move the bigger fish, but man, Gbinije and Hilliard must be GREAT at spotting people in the weight room and must LOVE to play Uno on the team flights and must really HUSTLE during team practices!!!

1 - 2nd rounders wash out all the time so nothing surprising there

2 - claiming SG is the easiest path to minutes on the team while ignoring SJ & KCP to support your argument is biased

3 - not making "meaningful" transactions doesn't mean they haven't attempted to

4 - this team as constructed is how many wins out of HCA in the playoffs?

5 - the sarcasm about what contributions Hilly & Benji make in practice, on the bus, on the plane or in the gym is childish

You guys act like you are seeing 100% of the picture when really you're looking at a thumbnail - that's a fact!

I said WE don't know. Not YOU! We as in both (all) of us. Therefore the burden of proof is on you:

Who could we have signed that could have made a difference? If Jordan Crawford is the answer then you've failed miserably

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[Pharaoh]

You are a believer, I believe in what I see, instead

I'm not a believer! I believe that I don't see the entire picture.

I've said for long enough we've got 2 halves of a good team but those halves don't mesh

I've said for long enough that a guy like Ish as starting PG is better than a guy like RJ

I've said for long enough that we need to utilise Tobias & KCP better offensively since they're our best offensive weapons.

Not much point me banging on about it non stop for 3 months when 2 will suffice!

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[Pharaoh]

FYI: 7 wins off HCA in the East...

So the difference between a circle jerk of epic proportions and absolute **** misery is maybe 4 wins?

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[Cowology]

I'm sure you could point to a lot of different factors, but in my mind those "4 wins" are essentially a reflection on our poor defense. We need to beat the teams we're supposed to beat, but we've had numerous examples of crappy teams beating us on days when our offense wasn't clicking and we had nothing to fall back on. Unfortunately PG & C tend to be the most important positions defensively (dribble penetration & rim protection) and those are our 2 biggest culprits. It's a serious problem.

[Pharaoh]

I'm sure you could point to a lot of different factors, but in my mind those "4 wins" are essentially a reflection on our poor defense. We need to beat the teams we're supposed to beat, but we've had numerous examples of crappy teams beating us on days when our offense wasn't clicking and we had nothing to fall back on. Unfortunately PG & C tend to be the most important positions defensively (dribble penetration & rim protection) and those are our 2 biggest culprits. It's a serious problem.

Agree that's a big issue - part of the Rubio love tbh since every TWolf fan claims his D is stellar

But if the difference between loving the team and hating them is 4 wins what does that say about the fanbase?

Think it says more about those fans than it says about the team

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[El Chivo]

I'm sure you could point to a lot of different factors, but in my mind those "4 wins" are essentially a reflection on our poor defense. We need to beat the teams we're supposed to beat, but we've had numerous examples of crappy teams beating us on days when our offense wasn't clicking and we had nothing to fall back on. Unfortunately PG & C tend to be the most important positions defensively (dribble penetration & rim protection) and those are our 2 biggest culprits. It's a serious problem.

it's impossible to make them understand that Drummond and Jackson are two dead weights.

[Alexander]

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1541392
I farted around on Reddit And basketball reference instead of writing a research paper about angina, And posted my first General NBA thread ever.
I think it's neato. 98-99 was historically stacked for PFs with entire top 5 ever active, and 09-10 seems to be the golden year for PGs.

[davidvolumes]

My question is to pharaoh. What is the two halves of a good team that we have?

[Pharaoh]

My question is to pharaoh. What is the two halves of a good team that we have?

IMO:

I think we all understand that a Drummond/RJ PnR heavy system would be best with shooters around them...so you run:

Dre, Jon, Harris, Bull, RJ

Bullock is probably the best spot up shooter we have, Jon likely the best shooting PF we have, Harris the bail out option if the PnR is covered every time.

This isn't ideal but they're guys already here so you make the best of what you have.

Assuming that's what you run Jon, Bull & Tobias make teams pay enough when they crowd the paint so at least you're keeping the D honest and can run RJ/Dre all day

A Dre, Harris, SJ, KCP, Ish line up would be at it's best in a motion style offense where you've got 4 guys that can make plays, move off the ball, push the tempo, get transitions, creating space through movement etc

Again not ideal cause SJ gotta make shots but you make the best of what you have

I think either system works well enough and plays to the strengths of the players in that line up with Mook & Harris the rare dudes that can play big minutes in both types and be effective

But those 2 styles don't really mesh as one depends heavily on ONE playmaker while the other is much more free flowing

NBA teams have had success with both styles so the type of system you run doesnt really matter - you just gotta run the system that utilizes your talent the most...

And that's where our system falls apart!

RJ is not willing/able to give up being the dominant playmaker for the good of the group...he marginalizes KCP to such an extent that KCP becomes a non factor offensively

Playing a system that does that to one player isn't the end of the world but when that guy plays 35 minutes a night and is quite possibly THE best player on your roster (only Tobias can argue about being above him) then you've failed as a coach

Your job as coach is to make the most of your best players & I believe KCP & Harris are not only our best weapons offensively but that they are better suited to a different system

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[DBC10]

I think someone here mentioned it before, but the Magic have to be somewhat interested in reuniting with SVG again, no? I have a tiny inkling that there may be some mutual interest now that Hennigan is on his way out. I know that SVG is still contracted, but I can't imagine that there hasn't been conversations in the past about it.

I think SVG's family still lives down there no?

[coordinator0]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/245389/Frank-Vogel-Believes-Mario-Hezonjas-Best-Position-Could-Be-Power-Forward

“There’s a chance that this could be his best position or most natural position in today’s NBA: to be 6-9 small-ball four [power forward]," said Vogel. "He’s going to have an opportunity to take a look at that and see what that feels like."

Uh... what?

[Pharaoh]

LMAO - Mario is a 3, not a 4. Same way SJ is a 3 not a 2

Can't make them what they're not

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