Wright and Reyes don't deserve starting in All-Star Game

[OoAnd1]

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Don't even try to compare Reyes to Hanley statwise.. Let's face it, no one is more fun to watch in a game than Jose Reyes, and that, imo, is good enough to get him the start.

It didn't hurt that he went 3-4 with a run and a SB either.

WTF are you talking about the most fun to watch? Stats are facts....who's the most fun to watch is an opinion....unless Reyes is moonwalking his way to the plate I don't see how he's any special to watch.

[OoAnd1]

see, you're doing it again. i do not give a **** how many runs someone scores or drives in. it is completely dependent on the rest of the lineup.

ugh

Every stat a batter has is dependent on the rest of the lineup. I don't see your point. From stolen bases (do the batters behind you give you time to rob the base) to homeruns (are the other batters doing their part, forcing the pitcher to pitch to you).

[blueNorange]

wahhh wahhh wahhh ahhh wwwhhhaaaaaa whha whhaa whaaa wahhh wahhh wahhh ahhh wwwhhhaaaaaa whha whhaa whaaa wahhh wahhh wahhh ahhh wwwhhhaaaaaa whha whhaa whaaa wahhh wahhh wahhh ahhh wwwhhhaaaaaa whha whhaa whaaa wahhh wahhh wahhh ahhh wwwhhhaaaaaa whha whhaa whaaa wahhh wahhh wahhh ahhh wwwhhhaaaaaa whha whhaa whaaa wahhh wahhh wahhh ahhh wwwhhhaaaaaa whha whhaa whaaa

Aww ... there, there. I'll warm you up some hot milk and sing you a lullaby later on.

[OoAnd1]

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Aww ... there, there. I'll warm you up some hot milk and sing you a lullaby later on.

(picture)

That's ok, I don't care if you're lactating.

[cmaff051]

[quote="Jose7

[mets87]

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Every stat a batter has is dependent on the rest of the lineup. I don't see your point. From stolen bases (do the batters behind you give you time to rob the base) to homeruns (are the other batters doing their part, forcing the pitcher to pitch to you).

you don't know much about stats do you =/

[holdupstop23]

Glad to see the majority agree that Cabrera should have started. It's obvious that Cabrera is the better player.



Regarding Reyes vs. Hanley....I can't use power numbers? It doesn't matter where they hit...power numbers means runs scored...scoring runs is the bottom line for a lineup. If Reyes gets a double, steals third and then scores from a sacrifice out...that's better than Hanley just hitting a homerun? Small ball and long ball are BOTH important and Hanley does both. You want more specific lead-off stats? Fine...

Hanley: .331Avg, .388OBP, 117Hits, 14HR, 35RBI, 70R, 23Dbls, 4Tripl, 28BB, 27SB
Reyes: .307Avg, .387OBP, 110Hits, 4HR, 35RBI, 62R, 17Dbls, 9Tripl, 47BB, 46SB

Reyes is the better lead-off hitter. Hanley is the better ballplayer. Hanley is just a bigger threat...one night he's batting lead-off..robbing bases and starting big innings....the next night he's batting 3rd....knocking in runs and capping big innings. He has potential to get a 40/40 one year in the near future.

Stats are stupid in this case and I'll tell you why. The Mets do not want Reyes using his power swing, they want him on base. So Reyes has been working the count better and shortening his swing to try and get on base. This is why his OBP and walks are so high and power is down. The whole point of doing this is because if Reyes gets on base, its almost an automatic double with him stealing 2nd. If the Mets gave Reyes permission to just use his regular stroke, he would have alot more hits, doubles, triples and HR's.

So no matter what stat you use, Reyes is better.

[Jose7]

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What's up with telling people to shut up? You do that an awful lot, I'd advise you to cool it. We are all trying to be peaceful here, we don't appreciate being told to shut up. We'd give the same corteousy to you.

Press the ignore button it's pretty easy to do. I'm about to do it to you.

What happened? I thought A Rod was going to re sign, it was such breaking news.

[bringinhinkie]

reyes >>> hanley


to add insult to injury, reyes errors = 6, hanley = 16

[Jose7]

oh and 2 of those errors charged to reyes were pure BS. I've watched mostly every game this year and 2 errors were on garbage calls.

[knicksNOTslick]

reyes >>> hanley


to add insult to injury, reyes errors = 6, hanley = 16

oh man, ownage


plus i think it helps that we're in first place... while the marlins are somewhere down there.

[/thread]

[mets87]

[quote="Jose7

[OoAnd1]

reyes >>> hanley


to add insult to injury, reyes errors = 6, hanley = 16

So when I bring up stats showing Hanley is the better offensive player....stats don't matter but you can bring up stats to show Reyes is the better defensive player?

But if stats do count...great..Hanley is the better offensive player while Reyes is the better defensive player. That's a fair point.

[OoAnd1]

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Stats are stupid in this case and I'll tell you why. The Mets do not want Reyes using his power swing, they want him on base. So Reyes has been working the count better and shortening his swing to try and get on base. This is why his OBP and walks are so high and power is down. The whole point of doing this is because if Reyes gets on base, its almost an automatic double with him stealing 2nd. If the Mets gave Reyes permission to just use his regular stroke, he would have alot more hits, doubles, triples and HR's.

So no matter what stat you use, Reyes is better.

Why are you assuming only Reyes is limited by their team's wishes? Both players have to play within the game-plan of their teams. Both have to reach base, both have good hitters behind them. Where did you hear Hanley has the green-light to do whatever he wants no matter the situation? If he needs to walk, he walks, he needs to bunt, he bunts, needs to get a flyout, groundout...he does it. And when he needs to drive in runs...he does that too.

It's not fair to discount Hanley by saying stats don't count. These stats aren't magical numbers out of nowhere. Those stats makeup every way he produces representative of what he does in the games. How can you evaluate players if you discount their production during the games?

[mets87]

hey man i think hanley ramirez is incredibly underrated. playing in florida will do that to a player...i looked at his stats and was shocked, because i never hear anything about him. but you can't say reyes doesn't deserve to start in the all-star game. if anything, you should be complaining about beltran getting any votes at all, as he's having a joke of a season.

[holdupstop23]

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Why are you assuming only Reyes is limited by their team's wishes? Both players have to play within the game-plan of their teams. Both have to reach base, both have good hitters behind them. Where did you hear Hanley has the green-light to do whatever he wants no matter the situation? If he needs to walk, he walks, he needs to bunt, he bunts, needs to get a flyout, groundout...he does it. And when he needs to drive in runs...he does that too.

It's not fair to discount Hanley by saying stats don't count. These stats aren't magical numbers out of nowhere. Those stats makeup every way he produces representative of what he does in the games. How can you evaluate players if you discount their production during the games?

Hanley is a great player. But stats dont really count in this case. Jose has been specifically told to put away his power swing and hit line drives. If he was swinging normally during the whole season, his power numbers would be up.

Jose batted leadoff the whole season. Hanley bats 3rd sometimes. Hanley has more opportunities to use his power swing.

[randomhero423]

reyes deserved to start. defintely. so did wright. (although m-cab is much better). beltran didn't.

here's hanley's #'s.
Batting 1st: .361 8 HR 19 RBI 17 2b, 5 3b. .433 OBP 205 at bats.
Batting 3rd: .297 6 HR, 18 RBI, 8 2b, 0 3b. .331 OBP 165 at bats.

So it is evident he's asked for more of a power swing when he's 3rd and not first. Reyes plays his role, and so does Hanley. Which makes both uncomparable stats wise.

And Hanley is overlooked by Met fans for two reasons. One he's in FL and no publicity. Two he's terrible vs us.

His career vs the NYM: .214 avg, 4 HR, 9 rbi, 30 SO, 14 R, 133 atbats.

[OoAnd1]

reyes deserved to start. defintely. so did wright. (although m-cab is much better). beltran didn't.

here's hanley's #'s.
Batting 1st: .361 8 HR 19 RBI 17 2b, 5 3b. .433 OBP 205 at bats.
Batting 3rd: .297 6 HR, 18 RBI, 8 2b, 0 3b. .331 OBP 165 at bats.

So it is evident he's asked for more of a power swing when he's 3rd and not first. Reyes plays his role, and so does Hanley. Which makes both uncomparable stats wise.

And Hanley is overlooked by Met fans for two reasons. One he's in FL and no publicity. Two he's terrible vs us.

His career vs the NYM: .214 avg, 4 HR, 9 rbi, 30 SO, 14 R, 133 atbats.

You're the first person here to actually come up with some data and information to base your opinion on. I like that. But I disagree....just because they don't have identical roles doesn't mean you can't say one is better than the other. A batter is a batter....whatever your role is, you have to produce. And they both have great production.

The only thing I can admit to is...since their stats are SO CLOSE, it's hard to say one is better than the other. But my purpose is not to make everyone believe that Hanley>Reyes....it's the fact that Hanley is SO under the radar (wasn't even IN the All-Star game) that bothers me.

I'm not trying to say Furcal is better than Reyes...that's not an argument....if you really think I'm crazy for saying Hanley is better than Reyes than you're either biased or don't know baseball because it is certainly arguable. Not fact, but arguable.

[OoAnd1]

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Hanley is a great player. But stats dont really count in this case. Jose has been specifically told to put away his power swing and hit line drives. If he was swinging normally during the whole season, his power numbers would be up.

Jose batted leadoff the whole season. Hanley bats 3rd sometimes. Hanley has more opportunities to use his power swing.

Don't you think that counts that Hanley can be both a great leadoff hitter and a great cleanup hitter??? That's great versatility. He can either start rallies or end them with homeruns.

Eventually he'll be an everyday 3 or 4 like Vladimir Guerrero avging .320+, 35hr, 35 SB.

[holdupstop23]

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Don't you think that counts that Hanley can be both a great leadoff hitter and a great cleanup hitter??? That's great versatility. He can either start rallies or end them with homeruns.

Eventually he'll be an everyday 3 or 4 like Vladimir Guerrero avging .320+, 35hr, 35 SB.

Sure that counts. He is a great player. I am just telling you why Hanley's numbers look alot better.

He reminds me of Rentaria.