Better Without SVG??

[bjones521]

Reviewing the two teams salaries and the overall talent on he roster the year SVG took over as GM and now leaves a lot to be desired and his tenure is very similar to Joe D. I could argue that SVG was better off then but his "we'll sign players and see what happens" approach may leave the Pistons bad for years to come.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/detroit-pistons-salary-archive-201314/


SVG has not put together a team than doesn't mesh well and put together a team that can't shoot, Similar to Joe D with Monroe and Josh Smith. He has also put together a mediocre team with a lot of big contracts that nobody wants ala Ben gordon, CharlieV and Josh Smith. Do you guys think we are headed down that same road of mediocrity we've been down with JoeD?

[A_dub06]

Reviewing the two teams salaries and the overall talent on he roster the year SVG took over as GM and now leaves a lot to be desired and his tenure is very similar to Joe D. I could argue that SVG was better off then but his "we'll sign players and see what happens" approach may leave the Pistons bad for years to come.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/detroit-pistons-salary-archive-201314/


SVG has not put together a team than doesn't mesh well and put together a team that can't shoot, Similar to Joe D with Monroe and Josh Smith. He has also put together a mediocre team with a lot of big contracts that nobody wants ala Ben gordon, CharlieV and Josh Smith. Do you guys think we are headed down that same road of mediocrity we've been down with JoeD?

I wouldn't call this team similar to any team Joe Dumars built and also context is everything....

Dumars had assets at his disposal and he let the franchise flounder for years with incredibly mediocre talent and little to no upside while signing guys that were either well past their prime or just terrible fits. Dumars traded away assets in short term moves which were then compounded by wasting the little benefit received from said move (Ben Gordon trade followed by Josh Smith signing).

SVG on the other hand inherited a team without real assets and has made several trades which have largely been in our favour. Considering what he had to work with I applaud SVG in his moves acquiring players such as Harris, Morris and even Jackson for a small outlay.

I wouldn't care if Gores wanted to move on from SVG as I really dislike his coaching but to even compare SVG to Dumars is understating just how badly Joe D screwed us for most of a decade.

[Pharaoh]

Reviewing the two teams salaries and the overall talent on he roster the year SVG took over as GM and now leaves a lot to be desired and his tenure is very similar to Joe D. I could argue that SVG was better off then but his "we'll sign players and see what happens" approach may leave the Pistons bad for years to come.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/detroit-pistons-salary-archive-201314/


SVG has not put together a team than doesn't mesh well and put together a team that can't shoot, Similar to Joe D with Monroe and Josh Smith. He has also put together a mediocre team with a lot of big contracts that nobody wants ala Ben gordon, CharlieV and Josh Smith. Do you guys think we are headed down that same road of mediocrity we've been down with JoeD?

Your lack of knowledge disturbs me!

Big contracts no one wants?

Name them all please!

Drummond - would get Max money from multiple teams if he was available

KCP - likely to be offered the max after this season!

RJ is paid $13-15 mil atm - people are talking about George Hill & Jrue Holiday getting offered over $20 mil a year this off-season

Jon Boy - makes around $10-13 mil - dudes that fill similar roles and play the minutes he plays will command approx $5 mil more than that this off-season

If you don't know the market value for players don't make threads like this.

Also, what about Mook & Ish? They don't fit your narrative so you ignore them?

It's possible - likely even - that Van Bower say the cap spike coming and made moves to take them outta the craziness that has & will happen!

Better to have a bunch of good, team friendly contracts on the books than get stuck paying big money for the likes of Turner, Crabbe, Johnson, Mozgov, Deng, Noah etc

IIRC Tobias Harris makes LESS than all those I named!

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[bjones521]

Reviewing the two teams salaries and the overall talent on he roster the year SVG took over as GM and now leaves a lot to be desired and his tenure is very similar to Joe D. I could argue that SVG was better off then but his "we'll sign players and see what happens" approach may leave the Pistons bad for years to come.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/detroit-pistons-salary-archive-201314/


SVG has not put together a team than doesn't mesh well and put together a team that can't shoot, Similar to Joe D with Monroe and Josh Smith. He has also put together a mediocre team with a lot of big contracts that nobody wants ala Ben gordon, CharlieV and Josh Smith. Do you guys think we are headed down that same road of mediocrity we've been down with JoeD?

Your lack of knowledge disturbs me!

Big contracts no one wants?

Name them all please!

Drummond - would get Max money from multiple teams if he was available

KCP - likely to be offered the max after this season!

RJ is paid $13-15 mil atm - people are talking about George Hill & Jrue Holiday getting offered over $20 mil a year this off-season

Jon Boy - makes around $10-13 mil - dudes that fill similar roles and play the minutes he plays will command approx $5 mil more than that this off-season

If you don't know the market value for players don't make threads like this.

Also, what about Mook & Ish? They don't fit your narrative so you ignore them?

It's possible - likely even - that Van Bower say the cap spike coming and made moves to take them outta the craziness that has & will happen!

Better to have a bunch of good, team friendly contracts on the books than get stuck paying big money for the likes of Turner, Crabbe, Johnson, Mozgov, Deng, Noah etc

IIRC Tobias Harris makes LESS than all those I named!

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Looks like someone is over valuing the players on this mediocre roster. The 3 largest contracts on this team are Drummond, RJ and Harris. Im sorry but no one wants those deals and its eating our salary cap, So much so, that we have one of the highest payrolls in the league. You think teams are clamoring for a 26mil non offensive and defensive C? So just bc any team would have given Drummond the max we should have too? And please who is paying RJ 16mil per? We have on avg 55 per per year over the next 3 with Harris, RJ and Drummond and all are avg.

[Pharaoh]

Reviewing the two teams salaries and the overall talent on he roster the year SVG took over as GM and now leaves a lot to be desired and his tenure is very similar to Joe D. I could argue that SVG was better off then but his "we'll sign players and see what happens" approach may leave the Pistons bad for years to come.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/detroit-pistons-salary-archive-201314/


SVG has not put together a team than doesn't mesh well and put together a team that can't shoot, Similar to Joe D with Monroe and Josh Smith. He has also put together a mediocre team with a lot of big contracts that nobody wants ala Ben gordon, CharlieV and Josh Smith. Do you guys think we are headed down that same road of mediocrity we've been down with JoeD?

Your lack of knowledge disturbs me!

Big contracts no one wants?

Name them all please!

Drummond - would get Max money from multiple teams if he was available

KCP - likely to be offered the max after this season!

RJ is paid $13-15 mil atm - people are talking about George Hill & Jrue Holiday getting offered over $20 mil a year this off-season

Jon Boy - makes around $10-13 mil - dudes that fill similar roles and play the minutes he plays will command approx $5 mil more than that this off-season

If you don't know the market value for players don't make threads like this.

Also, what about Mook & Ish? They don't fit your narrative so you ignore them?

It's possible - likely even - that Van Bower say the cap spike coming and made moves to take them outta the craziness that has & will happen!

Better to have a bunch of good, team friendly contracts on the books than get stuck paying big money for the likes of Turner, Crabbe, Johnson, Mozgov, Deng, Noah etc

IIRC Tobias Harris makes LESS than all those I named!

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Looks like someone is over valuing the players on this mediocre roster. The 3 largest contracts on this team are Drummond, RJ and Harris. Im sorry but no one wants those deals and its eating our salary cap, So much so, that we have one of the highest payrolls in the league. You think teams are clamoring for a 26mil non offensive and defensive C? So just bc any team would have given Drummond the max we should have too? And please who is paying RJ 16mil per? We have on avg 55 per per year over the next 3 with Harris, RJ and Drummond and all are avg.

What's the cap set at dude?

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[Joe Berry]

Michael Curry, John Kuester, Lawrence Frank, Mo Cheeks, John Leuer no thanks, i'd stick with SVG all day every day.

We had no assets other than Drummond and KCP when SVG started. This current roster at least has talent but is flawed. I am not worried about the cap i think all the guys on the roster are tradable. The future was looking bright just one year ago. Reggie got hurt, Drummond didnt develop and our shooting just disappeared. It is a disappointing season no doubt, but i think SVG can turn this around, all the roster moves were more than solid. Just building around flawed players like Reggie & Dre when you lack any kind of shooting seemed to be a mistake.

[Pharaoh]

I view what we've seen thus far as asset collection

All contracts signed under the old CBA and the ones that weren't are market value based on what we saw last off-season and likely to see this off-season

People whine about the payroll like having cap room helps us big time yet Green, Carroll & Horford said "thanks but no thanks"

The time to worry about payroll was LAST off-season when we got Jon, Ish & Bobo before retaining Dre.

I'll hear out anyone that has a better idea than that trio but good luck picking dudes much better than Jon & Ish for what we paid

Although I'm sure there's a bunch if obscure guys who were great signings after the fact.

Captain Hindsight to the rescue!



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[Blkbrd671]

I view what we've seen thus far as asset collection

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essentially this, we have YOUNG TALENTED ASSETS. sh* buddy f* hield netted decent assets. RJ and TH are premium players because in this new cba there contracts are a bargain and long term. Even with this inconsistent version of RJ.

[DetroitSho]

People who call anyone on this team overpaid is basically not even worth discussing with. The only one I could say is overpaid is Boban and that's literally due to his salary to on court production ratio. But somehow the whole building goes crazy anytime he takes off his warmups or touches the ball.

[BadMofoPimp]

Reviewing the two teams salaries and the overall talent on he roster the year SVG took over as GM and now leaves a lot to be desired and his tenure is very similar to Joe D. I could argue that SVG was better off then but his "we'll sign players and see what happens" approach may leave the Pistons bad for years to come.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/detroit-pistons-salary-archive-201314/


SVG has not put together a team than doesn't mesh well and put together a team that can't shoot, Similar to Joe D with Monroe and Josh Smith. He has also put together a mediocre team with a lot of big contracts that nobody wants ala Ben gordon, CharlieV and Josh Smith. Do you guys think we are headed down that same road of mediocrity we've been down with JoeD?

Your lack of knowledge disturbs me!

Big contracts no one wants?

Name them all please!

Drummond - would get Max money from multiple teams if he was available

KCP - likely to be offered the max after this season!

RJ is paid $13-15 mil atm - people are talking about George Hill & Jrue Holiday getting offered over $20 mil a year this off-season

Jon Boy - makes around $10-13 mil - dudes that fill similar roles and play the minutes he plays will command approx $5 mil more than that this off-season

If you don't know the market value for players don't make threads like this.

Also, what about Mook & Ish? They don't fit your narrative so you ignore them?

It's possible - likely even - that Van Bower say the cap spike coming and made moves to take them outta the craziness that has & will happen!

Better to have a bunch of good, team friendly contracts on the books than get stuck paying big money for the likes of Turner, Crabbe, Johnson, Mozgov, Deng, Noah etc

IIRC Tobias Harris makes LESS than all those I named!

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

Looks like someone is over valuing the players on this mediocre roster. The 3 largest contracts on this team are Drummond, RJ and Harris. Im sorry but no one wants those deals and its eating our salary cap, So much so, that we have one of the highest payrolls in the league. You think teams are clamoring for a 26mil non offensive and defensive C? So just bc any team would have given Drummond the max we should have too? And please who is paying RJ 16mil per? We have on avg 55 per per year over the next 3 with Harris, RJ and Drummond and all are avg.

I bet you would be surprised what teams would be offering for those guys.

[Canadafan]

Reviewing the two teams salaries and the overall talent on he roster the year SVG took over as GM and now leaves a lot to be desired and his tenure is very similar to Joe D. I could argue that SVG was better off then but his "we'll sign players and see what happens" approach may leave the Pistons bad for years to come.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/detroit-pistons-team-salary/detroit-pistons-salary-archive-201314/


SVG has not put together a team than doesn't mesh well and put together a team that can't shoot, Similar to Joe D with Monroe and Josh Smith. He has also put together a mediocre team with a lot of big contracts that nobody wants ala Ben gordon, CharlieV and Josh Smith. Do you guys think we are headed down that same road of mediocrity we've been down with JoeD?

Your lack of knowledge disturbs me!

Big contracts no one wants?

Name them all please!

Drummond - would get Max money from multiple teams if he was available

KCP - likely to be offered the max after this season!

RJ is paid $13-15 mil atm - people are talking about George Hill & Jrue Holiday getting offered over $20 mil a year this off-season

Jon Boy - makes around $10-13 mil - dudes that fill similar roles and play the minutes he plays will command approx $5 mil more than that this off-season

If you don't know the market value for players don't make threads like this.

Also, what about Mook & Ish? They don't fit your narrative so you ignore them?

It's possible - likely even - that Van Bower say the cap spike coming and made moves to take them outta the craziness that has & will happen!

Better to have a bunch of good, team friendly contracts on the books than get stuck paying big money for the likes of Turner, Crabbe, Johnson, Mozgov, Deng, Noah etc

IIRC Tobias Harris makes LESS than all those I named!

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And Leuer and Tobias are both on decelerating contracts!
KCP SJ Ellenson Drummond are all very young and will continue to get better. Internal growth

[Alexander]

In a vacuum we don't have many players that are a bad value.
Marcus Morris is grossly underpaid.
KCP is going to see his salary quintuple.
Those two mitigate Boban being a top 7 salary while not being in the rotation, at the very least.
______________________________
The majority of teams would pay Drummond what we are (22 mil)!
New Orleans (Cousins 17 and Davis 22), Philly (Embiid), Atlanta (Howard-23), Clippers (DeAndre 21), Memphis (Gasol-21), Heat (Whiteside-22) wouldn't because of who they already have. San Antonio probably wouldn't with 35 between Aldridge (20) and Gasol (15). Brook Lopez is making 21 for the Nets.

Freaking Al Horford is making 26 a year for Boston. New York is paying Noah 17 to be on the bench, Enes Kanter makes the same as a backup and plays less than half the game (although he's productive). Biyombo makes 17.

Drummond is not overpaid. I repeat: Drummond is not overpaid.
______________________________
Reggie Jackson's contract was done in anticipation of the salary cap's rapid expansion and assuming that he'd stay healthy and improve. He didn't and he didn't. However, the rest of the league wouldn't raise an eyebrow at a 24-25 year old 18/9 player getting that kind of money in offseasons to come.

We should move on from Reggie Jackson for several reasons, but his contract isn't nearly the biggest concern.

[Billl]

If everyone on our team was a free agent this year, the only guys taking a pay cut would be RJ and Boban.

The "problem" is our cap is that we have a bunch of good players but no true star. Due to the max contract, the true superstars are the best value in the league. Drummond may have market max value, but his production is way, way less than someone like Durant or Curry. That's the trap of building around fringe all-star type guys. You have to pay them market value to keep them, but you take a cap hit like you just signed LBJ.

[Pharaoh]

If everyone on our team was a free agent this year, the only guys taking a pay cut would be RJ and Boban.

The "problem" is our cap is that we have a bunch of good players but no true star. Due to the max contract, the true superstars are the best value in the league. Drummond may have market max value, but his production is way, way less than someone like Durant or Curry. That's the trap of building around fringe all-star type guys. You have to pay them market value to keep them, but you take a cap hit like you just signed LBJ.

THIS!

The drama is if you dont pay market value then you gotta tank and that was never an option for SVG here

Gores wanted a "winning" team ASAP

IF Gores isn't happy then yeah they'll change it we're not gonna be legit contenders regardless of who you add here.

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[ElectricMayhem]

Josh Smith is overpaid. Post-injury RJ is currently overpaid but he was well worth his deal last year, especially considering the current market. Boban is overpaid because he is glued to the bench. Our situation is MUCH better than it was in the Dumars era with CV, Bengo, and Josh Smith. Those were some of the worst contracts in league history. And they were paired with coaches like Curry and Kuester to further exacerbate the situation.

[El Chivo]

The most ridicolous thing SVG did is to draft two forwards while he traded for other 2 and signed another one.

Basically he did not believe in his picks since he made them.

Milwaukee is starting two rookies!

[pistonsbball]

He's a good coach. Guy took a team with Rafer Alston starting at pg to the finals.

Our roster mix at the moment sucks. SVG the GM has to take some of the blame. No shooting. Our two highest paid players have a **** mentality. No other coach, other than maybe Pop, would do any better. I'd rather give SVG a shot with a refreshed roster, rather than hire a new coach for this group.

Also, this team lacks vets. I would've tried to keep Tolliver or bought in a couple of other guys.

[El Chivo]

He's a good coach. Guy took a team with Rafer Alston starting at pg to the finals.

4 basketball geologic eras ago.

[Pharaoh]

The most ridicolous thing SVG did is to draft two forwards while he traded for other 2 and signed another one.

Basically he did not believe in his picks since he made them.

Milwaukee is starting two rookies!

When we drafted SJ we didn't have Tobias and/or Mook.

Do you not acquire guys on good team friendly contracts because of a rookie?

When we drafted Henry we didn't have Jon Boy - do you not attempt to sign Horford because of a rookie? Do not attempt to sign a guy your scouting department have pegged as a good fit because of Kingy?

A GMs job is to win now and win later. A homer could argue that SJ & Kingy will be GOLD in 2 years when Mook is gone...but the hatred right now is too intense for most to remove the emotion

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[ImHeisenberg]

The 3 largest contracts on this team are Drummond, RJ and Harris. Im sorry but no one wants those deals and its eating our salary cap, So much so, that we have one of the highest payrolls in the league.

Harris at $14 million isn't a bad deal. Kent Bazemore is making $18 million a year in the cap era.

Harris and Drummond could be moved with ease. SVG just isn't going to get a great return for them, as nobody wins those kinds of trades if you're the seller. Boogie just went for a late lotto pick and what is considered a bad player.

Having almost $45 million tied up in the center position is where the bad cap management is. Paying Boban $8 million and barely playing him is a little moronic. And, Baynes may pick up his option and we'll run it back again next season like that.

I don't think anyone in our starting 5 is overpaid. I think some of the bench players were overpaid.

Either way you play it, we're in cap hell. 3rd highest payroll. Currently 9th in the east.