Roberson has to go

sleestak33 · Post #1 » by **sleestak33** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:44 am

In 4 games against the Warriors this season Roberson has played 110 minutes with only 13 points and shot 6-24 while going 0-10 on 3s and 1-4 on free throws. Not only that he got lit up the first 3 games by KD for 39, 40 and 34 points and in this game Thompson had 34. SMFH OKC has no chance against the elite teams playing this kid. He should have never even stepped on the court against the Warriors this year because he has no business being out there. This entire franchise is delusional about him and so are the fans but the stats don't lie. He is the worst offensive perimeter player in the history of the NBA (and I'm talking about a shooting guard/small forward that either started for a team or played a significant role) and I will challenge anybody else to find somebody worse...good luck.

InTheSabonus · Post #2 » by **InTheSabonus** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:57 am

I'm all for him going. I hate what he does to our offense...not even him getting fouled is a good thing. And on the slightly less rational side I've really not liked him since he put a massive dent in Russell's face a couple of years ago.

But who do we play at small forward? Obviously Singler is out. Grant is bad. Dougie is the most obvious option, but a) the coach has no idea how to use him and b) he's really the anti-roberson defensively.

So who do we sign? Well we can't afford any big names targets. No Hayward or Paul George. Galinari will probably be too expensive. Maybe we could acquire Wilson Chandler. Rudy Gay is done.

And disregarding who we could potentially get, we all know how much Presti loves Roberson. Or really just the Roberson type. It's why we have 3 of him on the roster. He's getting signed. And I assume doing so will prevent us from signing Taj.

I'd like to sign Roberson on the cheap. Then have him on the bench. Bust him out against guys he can defend well- pretty much any star that isn't on the warriors. But that isn't going to happen. Well, not like I can know any of this for sure. But it feels safe to make such assumptions. Our probable best hope is that Dougie develops enough to the point where he's smashing down the door, forcing Donovan to start him.

Pillendreher · Post #3 » by **Pillendreher** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:06 pm

He doesn't need to go, but he does need to get his act together. If I'm Presti, I'm offering him a deal with bonuses based on his offensive performance.

Post #4 » by **ThunderBolt** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:40 pm

If we can sign him cheaply, I would be in favor of moving him at the deadline next year. If we keep him, I don't want him to be a starter.

hardenASG13 · Post #5 » by **hardenASG13** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:54 pm

Finally some others can see this! The bigger travesty is that 2 generational talents had to play along this guy the last 2 years. Any solid veteran wing alongside them (even a Matt Barnes type) would've been unstoppable last year. People wanna talk about his defensive rating smh. He holds back the offense so much and doesn't do anything to stop superstars. It's comical

hardenASG13 · Post #6 » by **hardenASG13** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:56 pm

They will be able to get him back cheap bc the rest of the league realines wings need to be able to shoot, no matter how good their d is. But he's as good as luc mbah moute maybe so it's ok.

oken · Post #7 » by **oken** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:08 pm

I don't like bashing Roberson because he is a very nice guy but as I posted before when you factor in FT% and 3-pt% other teams are getting the same level of offensive production from either their rookies or $2-5mln/year rotation guys.
Here is a comparison: http://bkref.com/tiny/9EnN9

Also his human handcuff powers are not working against elite teams because you can't stop these guys with one-on-one defense, they will go crazy like bulls when you put such defenders and try to shame you. You need to take them out of their own rhythm, intercept passes, penetrate their very high screens or even screen their screeners and show a team effort. A good example for this is the Pistons-Warriors matchup from last year. They showed everybody how an inferior team should deal with Warriors, unfortunately OKC is still miles away from a combined team effort on defense. I would love to have KCP and Ersan here in OKC now.

Watch on YouTube

Post #8 » by **bondom34** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:27 pm

Oh no.

Post #9 » by **ThunderBolt** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:29 pm

Stephen A Smith just said okc has "this guy Roberson on their roster that they can't do anything with".

Post #10 » by **bondom34** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:30 pm

And no, he still doesn't. He's one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, as much as I get annoyed with his shooting at times if you want to put Russ on their best offensive player and watch him tire out on defense, sure but that's an awful idea.

Oh and Tony Allen and MKG are worse offensively.

Post #11 » by **bondom34** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:30 pm

Knrstz wrote:Stephen A Smith just said okc has "this guy Roberson on their roster that they can't do anything with".

That sounds like a reason to keep him

Post #12 » by **ThunderBolt** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:32 pm

bondom34 wrote:And no, he still doesn't. He's one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, as much as I get annoyed with his shooting at times if you want to put Russ on their best offensive player and watch him tire out on defense, sure but that's an awful idea.

Oh and Tony Allen and MKG are worse offensively.

Or maybe that's offset because Russ doesn't have to everything on offense.

Post #13 » by **bondom34** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:33 pm

Knrstz wrote:
bondom34 wrote:And no, he still doesn't. He's one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, as much as I get annoyed with his shooting at times if you want to put Russ on their best offensive player and watch him tire out on defense, sure but that's an awful idea.

Oh and Tony Allen and MKG are worse offensively.

Or maybe that's offset because Russ doesn't have to everything on offense.

We've seen it when Roberson isn't in because he's hurt and Abrines or a few years ago Morrow started. They just give up 130 per game and Russ still tires out.

I've argued against him a few times, but this isn't a time to. He's certainly a worthwhile player and one of a small handful of guys who probably should be kept.

Post #14 » by **ThunderBolt** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:36 pm

bondom34 wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
bondom34 wrote:And no, he still doesn't. He's one of the best perimeter defenders in the league, as much as I get annoyed with his shooting at times if you want to put Russ on their best offensive player and watch him tire out on defense, sure but that's an awful idea.

Oh and Tony Allen and MKG are worse offensively.

Or maybe that's offset because Russ doesn't have to everything on offense.

We've seen it when Roberson isn't in because he's hurt and Abrines or a few years ago Morrow started. They just give up 130 per game and Russ still tires out.

I've argued against him a few times, but this isn't a time to. He's certainly a worthwhile player and one of a small handful of guys who probably should be kept.

I agree that if you replace him with a guy that is a defensive liability then it's pointless. We probably would have given up 130 with him in the lineup last night if the starters had remained in the game.

Post #15 » by **bondom34** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:38 pm

Knrstz wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
Or maybe that's offset because Russ doesn't have to everything on offense.

We've seen it when Roberson isn't in because he's hurt and Abrines or a few years ago Morrow started. They just give up 130 per game and Russ still tires out.

I've argued against him a few times, but this isn't a time to. He's certainly a worthwhile player and one of a small handful of guys who probably should be kept.

I agree that if you replace him with a guy that is a defensive liability then it's pointless. We probably would have given up 130 with him in the lineup last night if the starters had remained in the game.

And I'm again stuck going back to coaching. Everything points to him being a top 5 defender, and one of the premier perimeter defenders in the NBA. GSW is a bad matchup period, heck TA and MKG have it happen too, but Brooks never had this happen.

Post #16 » by **ThunderBolt** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:41 pm

bondom34 wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
bondom34 wrote:We've seen it when Roberson isn't in because he's hurt and Abrines or a few years ago Morrow started. They just give up 130 per game and Russ still tires out.

I've argued against him a few times, but this isn't a time to. He's certainly a worthwhile player and one of a small handful of guys who probably should be kept.

I agree that if you replace him with a guy that is a defensive liability then it's pointless. We probably would have given up 130 with him in the lineup last night if the starters had remained in the game.

And I'm again stuck going back to coaching. Everything points to him being a top 5 defender, and one of the premier perimeter defenders in the NBA. GSW is a bad matchup period, heck TA and MKG have it happen too, but Brooks never had this happen.

You're probably right but unless Donovan wants to go to Indiana, I think we're stuck. I don't want to admit that because it means we're just wasting Russ.

Pillendreher · Post #17 » by **Pillendreher** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:46 pm

Re coaching: I still can't shake the feeling that Donovan isn't allowed to do the stuff he wants to do. I believe there's still way too much interference coming from the top.

Post #18 » by **ThunderBolt** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:54 pm

Pillendreher wrote:Re coaching: I still can't shake the feeling that Donovan isn't allowed to do the stuff he wants to do. I believe there's still way too much interference coming from the top.

I don't disagree with that either. I've said before that I think part of "the thunder way" is letting superstars do whatever they want. We never maximized and molded Durant and Westbrook into their maximum potential. Too much ISO ball. Same problem with different coaches tells me it's a part of a bigger issue.

Post #19 » by **bondom34** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:56 pm

Knrstz wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
I agree that if you replace him with a guy that is a defensive liability then it's pointless. We probably would have given up 130 with him in the lineup last night if the starters had remained in the game.

And I'm again stuck going back to coaching. Everything points to him being a top 5 defender, and one of the premier perimeter defenders in the NBA. GSW is a bad matchup period, heck TA and MKG have it happen too, but Brooks never had this happen.

You're probably right but unless Donovan wants to go to Indiana, I think we're stuck. I don't want to admit that because it means we're just wasting Russ.

Right now there's a lot of things that can happen with the roster around Russ. And if I'm being honest Robes is one of like 5 guys I think should stay ideally.

Pillendreher wrote:Re coaching: I still can't shake the feeling that Donovan isn't allowed to do the stuff he wants to do. I believe there's still way too much interference coming from the top.

Think I agree here too.

hardenASG13 · Post #20 » by **hardenASG13** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:36 pm

bondom34 wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
bondom34 wrote:And I'm again stuck going back to coaching. Everything points to him being a top 5 defender, and one of the premier perimeter defenders in the NBA. GSW is a bad matchup period, heck TA and MKG have it happen too, but Brooks never had this happen.

You're probably right but unless Donovan wants to go to Indiana, I think we're stuck. I don't want to admit that because it means we're just wasting Russ.

Right now there's a lot of things that can happen with the roster around Russ. And if I'm being honest Robes is one of like 5 guys I think should stay ideally.

Pillendreher wrote:Re coaching: I still can't shake the feeling that Donovan isn't allowed to do the stuff he wants to do. I believe there's still way too much interference coming from the top.

Think I agree here too.

Do you think replacing robes with a slightly worse defender (something in the mold of Wilson chandler, will Barton, Matt Barnes, Trevor ariza,etc) who can also score and contribute to a cohesive offense would be a downgrade? I think this is where I differ from you on him, not his defensive ability, but the impact him being arguably an all nba defender has while he really kills them offensively against good teams. Teams that realize that as long as you keep him from getting behind the defense on baseline cuts, he really does nothing, and his foul shots are almost like turnovers at this point. Obviously putting abrines, a skinny rookie from overseas as a replacement will hurt a defense, but would putting Oladipo on top 2s and signing a competent offensive guy who can do a decent job on bigger wings not be an upgrade. I think others in here are starting to acknowledge that his ability to stick to guys is pesky, but star players abuse him regardless of how hard he makes them work. If he could regularly lock down stars (the guys he'd hafta beat in the playoffs, which is what it's all about when you have a generational talent like westbrook on your team; you need to capitalize on that!), I would fully support him as a contributor. But he can't, and the only guy who can consistently really is kawhi Leonard. I don't care what he can do against Milwaukee on a Tuesday night. He's gotta do more offensively for what this teams goals should be, given they currently have the most Athletic guard in league history, and just last year had even more than that. As far as coaching, I'd agree with both of you that Donovan doesn't have full reigns, as it looks way to similar to what went on when Brooks was here, but KD was there to hide all the flaws of the non shooting wing system. With him gone that philosophy has to change, and it seems to be a presti philosophy.