Westbrook's on ball D isn't good

SFbaybum · Post #1 » by **SFbaybum** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:53 pm

...and his help D seems worse. Help Defense is where the Warriors thrive. Westbrook is guilty of leaving his man thinking a shot is going up because he is rebound hunting and is therefore suspect to the extra pass.

OKC is a good team. Taj Gibson is great pick up but W's just aren't a good matchup.

Osirus89 · Post #2 » by **Osirus89** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:25 pm

Amen brother.....Amen.
Look I love Russ as much as the next guy, but let's not delude ourselves. His defense sucks. HARD. Like almost Lillard level. Ibaka and KD masked a lot of that, but now it's more pronounced. One reason why Roberson even with his flaws has a role on this team. We can't just bring in a wing version of kanter. He has to be a plus defender as well, because Russ can be a sieve.

Post #3 » by **ThunderBolt** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:26 pm

SFbaybum wrote:...and his help D seems worse. Help Defense is where the Warriors thrive. Westbrook is guilty of leaving his man thinking a shot is going up because he is rebound hunting and is therefore suspect to the extra pass.

OKC is a good team. Taj Gibson is great pick up but W's just aren't a good matchup.

I agree. I think the thunders culture and coaching doesn't control/coach their superstars. Russ wouldn't have developed into this kind of player on Popovich. Russ is chasing rebounds at the expense of defense.

Post #4 » by **Andre Roberstan** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:26 pm

Westbrook's not a fantastic defender. If you're taking last night's game as evidence of anything outside of the Dubs being a flat better team and having OKC's number, though, you're off base. That's one of the worst games we've played all year.

Post #5 » by **ThunderBolt** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:31 pm

Andre Roberstan wrote:Westbrook's not a fantastic defender. If you're taking last night's game as evidence of anything outside of the Dubs being a flat better team and having OKC's number, though, you're off base. That's one of the worst games we've played all year.

You could probably use the other three games against the warriors and still make the point.

Post #6 » by **Andre Roberstan** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:42 pm

Knrstz wrote:
Andre Roberstan wrote:Westbrook's not a fantastic defender. If you're taking last night's game as evidence of anything outside of the Dubs being a flat better team and having OKC's number, though, you're off base. That's one of the worst games we've played all year.

You could probably use the other three games against the warriors and still make the point.

I don't know what it is, but even considering talent level we just look awful against them pretty much every time we play.

Post #7 » by **bondom34** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:43 pm

Knrstz wrote:
Andre Roberstan wrote:Westbrook's not a fantastic defender. If you're taking last night's game as evidence of anything outside of the Dubs being a flat better team and having OKC's number, though, you're off base. That's one of the worst games we've played all year.

You could probably use the other three games against the warriors and still make the point.

They're a terrible matchup. But we know this about Russ, he's not a great defender, he's not an awful defender. Everything you could say about him he's overall pretty average on that end. Has the tools but pretty similar to Curry in actual defense as far as effectiveness.

Post #8 » by **Andre Roberstan** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:45 pm

bondom34 wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
Andre Roberstan wrote:Westbrook's not a fantastic defender. If you're taking last night's game as evidence of anything outside of the Dubs being a flat better team and having OKC's number, though, you're off base. That's one of the worst games we've played all year.

You could probably use the other three games against the warriors and still make the point.

They're a terrible matchup. But we know this about Russ, he's not a great defender, he's not an awful defender. Everything you could say about him he's overall pretty average on that end. Has the tools but pretty similar to Curry in actual defense as far as effectiveness.

Curry's more disciplined. Russ has better tools.

Post #9 » by **bondom34** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:46 pm

Andre Roberstan wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
You could probably use the other three games against the warriors and still make the point.

They're a terrible matchup. But we know this about Russ, he's not a great defender, he's not an awful defender. Everything you could say about him he's overall pretty average on that end. Has the tools but pretty similar to Curry in actual defense as far as effectiveness.

Curry's more disciplined. Russ has better tools.

Yep pretty much.

Post #10 » by **ThunderBolt** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:50 pm

Westbrook appears to put forth the effort. Curry just gets pushed around because he's small. That leads me to believe that RW's defense isn't broken, it's just not a priority. I do think we should address him leaving his man for rebounds. We have a solid front court on the rebounding end. If Russ will stay set the defense isn't compromised if the opposition gets an offensive rebound. Does it accelerate our fast break that much to have our pg drive the full length of the floor compared to Adams/Taj/Kanter rebounding and immediately passing to him? I think our style of play makes it hard for all of the players to stay engaged.

Post #11 » by **bondom34** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:54 pm

Knrstz wrote:Westbrook appears to put forth the effort. Curry just gets pushed around because he's small. That leads me to believe that RW's defense isn't broken, it's just not a priority. I do think we should address him leaving his man for rebounds. We have a solid front court on the rebounding end. If Russ will stay set the defense isn't compromised if the opposition gets an offensive rebound. Does it accelerate our fast break that much to have our pg drive the full length of the floor compared to Adams/Taj/Kanter rebounding and immediately passing to him? I think our style of play makes it hard for all of the players to stay engaged.

He's better than 2 years ago, but worse than last year. It comes with the load offensively. It's the same thing most one man teams go through.

spearsy23 · Post #12 » by **spearsy23** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:28 pm

Neutral defender carrying the heaviest offensive load of all time. You guys are ridiculous. I've been as pessimistic as anyone this season, but come on. Comparing him to lillard? Gtfo here with that crap, even with his usage he's about the same as curry.

Also, up probably doesn't have an agenda.

Post #13 » by **bondom34** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:35 pm

spearsy23 wrote:Neutral defender carrying the heaviest offensive load of all time. You guys are ridiculous. I've been as pessimistic as anyone this season, but come on. Comparing him to lillard? Gtfo here with that crap, even with his usage he's about the same as curry.

Also, up probably doesn't have an agenda.

Don't know the OP, but the rest is spot on. He's improved from 2 years ago, which is all I could ask.

oken · Post #14 » by **oken** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:56 pm

Here is a graph for the hustle stats of some teams. Our man Russ is not doing his homework properly.

Full image is here: http://imgur.com/93lByAw

Screen Asst.: Screens that lead to field goal by teammate
Deflection: Defensive player gets his hand on the ball on a non-shot attempt
Loose Ball: Player gains sole possession of a live ball not in the control of either team

Post #15 » by **ThunderBolt** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:24 pm

The only two players in the league to contest fewer three pointers ar Gobert and Whiteside.

Post #16 » by **Andre Roberstan** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:38 pm

Contested FG is an unbelievably crap stat unless you play right under the basket, because SportsVu doesn't know who to assign the defense to. All the stats guys wish people would stop using it.

It is complete and utter trash and I wish it would die.

http://www1.vantagesports.com/Articles/archive_article_view/Vg1ZYyMAALIAoMzK

http://www1.vantagesports.com/Articles/archive_article_view/Vg7lTCEAAB8AoU_K

Post #17 » by **bondom34** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:51 pm

And by contested 3s we're also conceding Lillard is a better defender than CP3.

oken · Post #18 » by **oken** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:26 pm

If you liked it here is an updated version

You can see the full JPG here: http://imgur.com/QNqx3Im

oken · Post #19 » by **oken** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:26 am

I even prepared a normalized version. if anybody wants to check, the excel sheet is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1QDqQyL4XUtWk5UTkF0ZzE3cUk/view

Also this is a preview of what is inside: