2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2

[LloydFree]

New big board for the Sixers:

1) Lonzo Ball
2) Markelle Fultz
3) Josh Jackson
4) Jayson Tatum
5) Jonathan Isaac
6) Malik Monk
7) De'Aaron Fox
8) Dennis Smith Jr.
9) Frank Ntilikina
10) Miles Bridges
11) Lauri Markannen

Your big board thru #4 is how I think the actual draft will probably play out. I'd also be willing to bet the GM that takes Fultz over Jackson won't have a job two years after that pick.

[TheAntiTrump]

Why is so many down on Dennis Smith ? The guy is Allen Iverson like fast. Can shoot way better then he ever could. And gets to the rim and draws fouls with ease. He is very confident. And his PG productivity for being on such a bad team is amazing...better then Ball IMHO. I think the league GM's that need a PG will covet him greatly. No way he falls from top-5

Dennis Smith might put up better numbers for a bad team where he has the ball in his hands all the time. However on our team with Embiid and Simmons, we are better off with Malik Monk who is a better off-ball player, better shooter, and I think will be a better defender in time due to his physical tools.

I like Monk too. But disagree about his physical athleticism as compared to Smith. Smith is ealiy the best Athlete in this draft. Is tall. And already at NBA weight at 200lbs. His 3pt shooting is not quite as good as Monk's. But Monk had other teammates who took away defensive pressure. As where Smith was on a Island to himself. He was constantly hounded by 2 defenders at all times. In the NBA, with the likes of a Simmons and Embiid, he will get a lot of clean looks at the basket, and I believe he will shoot at a higher %. And as far as getting to the rim, and finishing...there is no one better then Smith. Monk is good yes. And I would not be opposed if we took him. But Smith has better skills overall.

[No-Man]

Thornwell is good but let's not act like he can create against NBA competition or anything, he gets a ton of stuff from playing already from the midpost/elbows and bullying smaller players to get close to and get fouled, his TS% has ramped up due to FTr going up and he finally getting his shot.
If his shot fully translates you are talking hopefully about a version of Wes Matthews that can pass a bit (and that would be a tremendous player that I'd take top10 hands down, still feel is unlikely he gets as dynamic as an off-ball shooter as Wes) but I don't think you can foresee him been an on-ball playmaker, he is a quick/solid passer, and the ball doesnt stick, but he doesnt get by or create enough separation in pick&roll or situations where he has the ball even against NCAA competition, I doubt he can do that at the next level.
He is a nice player as a 3&D wing that hopefully can held himself defending the POA, and hit enough 3s, plus keep the ball moving.
Probably worthy of a top20 selection if you believe in the shooting.

[Negrodamus]

Thornwell is good but let's not act like he can create against NBA competition or anything, he gets a ton of stuff from playing already from the midpost/elbows and bullying smaller players to get close to and get fouled, his TS% has ramped up due to FTr going up and he finally getting his shot.
If his shot fully translates you are talking hopefully about a version of Wes Matthews that can pass a bit (and that would be a tremendous player that I'd take top10 hands down, still feel is unlikely he gets as dynamic as an off-ball shooter as Wes) but I don't think you can foresee him been an on-ball playmaker, he is a quick/solid passer, and the ball doesnt stick, but he doesnt get by or create enough separation in pick&roll or situations where he has the ball even against NCAA competition, I doubt he can do that at the next level.
He is a nice player as a 3&D wing that hopefully can held himself defending the POA, and hit enough 3s, plus keep the ball moving.
Probably worthy of a top20 selection if you believe in the shooting.

... and he's arguably the best defensive prospect in college basketball.

And if he's playing for the Sixers, he'll be able to bully any player that's defending against him. What goes largely unnoticed is how often he's defended by a college 4 or 5 and is successfully "bullying" against a player 5 inches taller than him.

But if we're going to continue to minimize his effect on defense, should we talk about his 32 putbacks; only Markkanen has that many in the top 15 on DX. How about his 20 AST% to 11.5 TO% as an off ball guard for USC.

Honestly, the only argument against him is age at this point (unless you're concerned that he was caught smoking weed). If he was a sophomore, he'd be a top five pick, mainly because he exudes winning basketball.

[No-Man]

Thornwell is good but let's not act like he can create against NBA competition or anything, he gets a ton of stuff from playing already from the midpost/elbows and bullying smaller players to get close to and get fouled, his TS% has ramped up due to FTr going up and he finally getting his shot.
If his shot fully translates you are talking hopefully about a version of Wes Matthews that can pass a bit (and that would be a tremendous player that I'd take top10 hands down, still feel is unlikely he gets as dynamic as an off-ball shooter as Wes) but I don't think you can foresee him been an on-ball playmaker, he is a quick/solid passer, and the ball doesnt stick, but he doesnt get by or create enough separation in pick&roll or situations where he has the ball even against NCAA competition, I doubt he can do that at the next level.
He is a nice player as a 3&D wing that hopefully can held himself defending the POA, and hit enough 3s, plus keep the ball moving.
Probably worthy of a top20 selection if you believe in the shooting.

... and he's arguably the best defensive prospect in college basketball.

And if he's playing for the Sixers, he'll be able to bully any player that's defending against him. What goes largely unnoticed is how often he's defended by a college 4 or 5 and is successfully "bullying" against a player 5 inches taller than him.

But if we're going to continue to minimize his effect on defense, should we talk about his 32 putbacks; only Markkanen has that many in the top 15 on DX. How about his 20 AST% to 11.5 TO% as an off ball guard for USC.

Honestly, the only argument against him is age at this point (unless you're concerned that he was caught smoking weed). If he was a sophomore, he'd be a top five pick, mainly because he exudes winning basketball.

Against Duke he only bullied the Guards whenever he had Tatum on him he went out to the perimeter, which is the smart thing to do, I doubt he can bully big guys consistently, drive by them maybe.

He is good defensively, anticipates great but I dont think he has the athleticism to keep up with elite Guards, not many do, he is clearly savy, and even quarterbacks the team defensively, which is a rare trait.

He isn't an off-ball guard in college, he has a near 30% usage, the only argument about him is how much you trust the shooting off-the-dribble translating since he hasnt been nearly as solid shooting overall during his earlier years and how much you factor in his FTr been that high this year which helps his efficience a ton.
Like even if that doesnt traslate great I think he deserves a look in the late 1st/early 2nd, so if you feel like he is going to be at the very least solid there, or capable enough, he is likely a top20 guy, I think there's where I am at, but if you are buying on him been elite/worth of a lotto/top10 pick, you gotta believe some playmaking off-dribble is gonna be there at the NBA, I am not sure about that, and that he is defensive profile is gonna be successful too, plus continued improvements in shotmaking.

Could happen and could burn some teams that pass on him, but I am not sure I am there with him just yet, probably top20 is as far as I can go, although that might change if several guys go back to school of course.

I dont see how he is in 76ers range either way unless you trade Okafor for a mid 1st or something.

[cksdayoff]

i think Dennis Smith Jr is a top 5 pick.

and Markelle Fultz and Josh Jackson will be the top 2 players taken in the draft

[Unbreakable99]

Lavar Ball was wrong to talk about LeBron's kids.

Read on Twitter

[shawn_hemp]

Lavar Ball was wrong to talk about LeBron's kids.

Read on Twitter

Yeah I agree with LeBron here.

And it's not even like Lavar said anything that was really untrue or negative but why are you talking about someone else's kids at all?

Lavar Ball is tolerable when he is just pumping up his own kids but I don't want to hear his opinion on much else. I don't really want to hear from him at all tbh, but I understand he is a proud parent and everything

[eagereyez]

I'm hoping that Jackson will go before Fultz and/or Ball. It increases the odds of us getting either one of them.

[76ciology]

Fultz, Ball and Jackson all in the same tier?

[76ciology]

Tough to project Ball. Their team is very well spaced and high paced that you don't know if Ball's numbers is inflated. Kendall Marshall, Raymond Felton and Lin looked good with D'Antoni's system.

He's very well rounded but he doesn't look dominant like Curry or Westbrook.

[freshie2]

Ball isn't a player who will have inflated stats...part of his allure us his game presence (think J Kidd and Magic). He's the top player them Fultz and a gap between 2 and 3 (Tatu or Jackson??).

[LloydFree]

I was hoping Duke made a run in the tournament and would help inflate Tatum's profile enough to put him ahead of Jackson. I wanted the possibility of Jackson falling to #4, in case the Lakers pick conveys. But they're out and Kansas looks like their headed for a showdown with Arizona in the Championship. Josh Jackson's​ profile will only get bigger from here on out. I can't see how Jackson makes it to #4 now, especially with Ainge having a top 3 pick.

[Negrodamus]

I was hoping Duke made a run in the tournament and would help inflate Tatum's profile enough to put him ahead of Jackson. I wanted the possibility of Jackson falling to #4, in case the Lakers pick conveys. But they're out and Kansas looks like their headed for a showdown with Arizona in the Championship. Josh Jackson's​ profile will only get bigger from here on out. I can't see how Jackson makes it to #4 now, especially with Ainge having a top 3 pick.

More details about how he attacked that girl comes out.

Edit: threatened to beat her; attacked her car.

[LloydFree]

I was hoping Duke made a run in the tournament and would help inflate Tatum's profile enough to put him ahead of Jackson. I wanted the possibility of Jackson falling to #4, in case the Lakers pick conveys. But they're out and Kansas looks like their headed for a showdown with Arizona in the Championship. Josh Jackson's​ profile will only get bigger from here on out. I can't see how Jackson makes it to #4 now, especially with Ainge having a top 3 pick.

More details about how he attacked that girl comes out.

I don't speculate on stuff like that. Possible witness to an incident does not = alleged perpetrator. Frank Mason was a possible witness also. Maybe you know something more.

[shawn_hemp]

Hopefully Fultz, Ball, or Jackson get caught smoking weed between now and draft day

[Negrodamus]

I was hoping Duke made a run in the tournament and would help inflate Tatum's profile enough to put him ahead of Jackson. I wanted the possibility of Jackson falling to #4, in case the Lakers pick conveys. But they're out and Kansas looks like their headed for a showdown with Arizona in the Championship. Josh Jackson's​ profile will only get bigger from here on out. I can't see how Jackson makes it to #4 now, especially with Ainge having a top 3 pick.

More details about how he attacked that girl comes out.

I don't speculate on stuff like that. Possible witness to an incident does not = alleged perpetrator. Frank Mason was a possible witness also. Maybe you know something more.

I made an edit, but it's not really speculation if Self is suspending him for the incident. He started damaging the car once she locked herself in it. Might be a one time incident, but the professional sports world is growing exceedingly cautious about domestic violence (and rightly so).

[LloydFree]

More details about how he attacked that girl comes out.

I don't speculate on stuff like that. Possible witness to an incident does not = alleged perpetrator. Frank Mason was a possible witness also. Maybe you know something more.

I made an edit, but it's not really speculation if Self is suspending him for the incident. He started damaging the car once she locked herself in it. Might be a one time incident, but the professional sports world is growing exceedingly cautious about domestic violence (and rightly so).

Ok. I got you. We're talking about different incidents. I didn't see anything more that could come of that.

[Unbreakable99]

Let's say we drafted DSJ or Fox. Since Simmons is going to run the offense would that mean they wouldn't start? I don't think TJ would be a good fit with Simmons. I don't think any of them would be a good fit with Simmons. Would DSJ or Fox even start? And would they even be ahead of TJ? Do you think even if we draft DSJ or Fox that TJ would start over them or come off the bench ahead of them?

[Kobblehead]

I think Dennis Smith has the skillset to fit with Simmons. He may not shoot 40% from three, but he clearly has the ability make shots. I definitely don't think he's ready to start in year 1, though. Whatever team drafts him will have to be patient with him.