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Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA?

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Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA?

Poll ended at Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:47 pm

Yes
15
63%
No
9
38%
 
Total votes: 24

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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#21 » by Jarlaxle0204 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:55 pm

I think Ulis will be the perfect backup PG. That's not a slight on him but I imagine his size would be a detriment in the playoffs where teams focus in more on matchups. I'm incredibly happy with him though and it's a real luxury to have someone that good at the backup PG spot.
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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#22 » by MathiasPW » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:15 pm

Jarlaxle0204 wrote:I think Ulis will be the perfect backup PG. That's not a slight on him but I imagine his size would be a detriment in the playoffs where teams focus in more on matchups. I'm incredibly happy with him though and it's a real luxury to have someone that good at the backup PG spot.


Thinking about how teams can explore his size. Obviously opposite guards can post him up, but that play is just so uncommon nowadays.

Shooting over him sounds forced, as he has a great knack in staying glued to his man. And I mean REALLY glued. Most likely a mismatch with a forward shooting over Ulis would hit him with an elbow to the face first.and it's not like Ulis can't at least keep a hand on the guys face.

Mismatch with a big in the paint might be troublesome, but I have the impression that Ulis size might be an advantage in that case, as he can knock the ball away when it's bouncing high from a bigs hand.

Any ideas on how else that could happen? I guess the Celtics playoff series might be worth seeing to understand how teams will exploit IT
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Re: RE: Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#23 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:51 pm

MathiasPW wrote:
Jarlaxle0204 wrote:I think Ulis will be the perfect backup PG. That's not a slight on him but I imagine his size would be a detriment in the playoffs where teams focus in more on matchups. I'm incredibly happy with him though and it's a real luxury to have someone that good at the backup PG spot.


Thinking about how teams can explore his size. Obviously opposite guards can post him up, but that play is just so uncommon nowadays.

Shooting over him sounds forced, as he has a great knack in staying glued to his man. And I mean REALLY glued. Most likely a mismatch with a forward shooting over Ulis would hit him with an elbow to the face first.and it's not like Ulis can't at least keep a hand on the guys face.

Mismatch with a big in the paint might be troublesome, but I have the impression that Ulis size might be an advantage in that case, as he can knock the ball away when it's bouncing high from a bigs hand.

Any ideas on how else that could happen? I guess the Celtics playoff series might be worth seeing to understand how teams will exploit IT

I think 3 out 4 times teams can't exploit the little pg.... its that 1 out of 4 that concerns me with guys like ulis or IT. Guys like wall could really just crush them in a playoff series and make them nearly unplayable. So if you want to be a true contender then its a real concern since chances are you will face a nightmare match up somewhere in your playoff run.

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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#24 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:50 pm

I should say that I LOVE his profile as a backup PG. To me the size thing isn't a problem on a second unit. He brings great energy to the game on both sides of the ball. Most importantly the guys you play with on a second unit are usually somewhat limited in what they can do so having someone like Ulis who can get them the ball in the right spots makes them more effective players and really boosts a second unit as a whole.
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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#25 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:42 pm

He can definitely be a starting PG but I'd see him more as an elite backup point than a just average starting PG.
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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#26 » by GMATCallahan » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:56 am

Texas Chuck wrote:I love Ulis. Thought he was an incredible draft steal--even with the hip concerns. It does feel like he's too small to make it work defensively, but the Celtics have managed to have a very good defense with horrible defender IT starting and still missing a rim protector and being an awful rebounding team.

So it has to be possible, right?

But if at any point you guys grow weary of him, just send him east to Dallas. JJ Barea is getting old and I'd love to slide Ulis into his role. And that's assuming we find a better PG. Ulis would certainly be starting over Yogi atm.


The Celtics were a very good defensive team—a great defensive team, really—last season, ranking fourth in the NBA Defensive Rating (points allowed per possession). For most of this season, they were well below average in that regard; recent improvement has placed them slightly above average—fourteenth out of thirty and allowing 108.3 points per 100 possessions (compared to the league mean of 108.7).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2017.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2017.html

Last season, Thomas was certainly a below-average defender, ranking forty-eighth among sixty-nine "point guards" at -1.89 in Defensive Real Plus-Minus, but he was not "horrible."

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2016/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/1

This season, conversely, he ranks dead last among ninety "point guards" at -4.31, 1.10 worse than the eighty-ninth-best "point guard."

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/3/sort/DRPM/position/1

So a team can be very good, or even great, defensively with a well below-average defensive point guard. The Celtics' performance this season, conversely, may suggest that you cannot be very good defensively with a "horrible" defender at point guard.

The Celtics are poor on the boards, but I would not say that are missing a "rim protector" per se. They do not possess a dominant one, but Al Horford is a decent shot blocker and Amir Johnson is a very underrated positional defender with length. Tommy Heinsohn has analogized his role and performance in Boston's defense to Kevin Garnett's in earlier years, and not without some justification. Johnson currently ranks third among all "power forwards" in Defensive Real Plus-Minus (actually, Johnson and Horford play interchangeably on defense in terms of power forward/center matchups):

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/6

The presence of Johnson and Horford, along with Jae Crowder, Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, and Terry Rozier, have allowed Boston's defense to at least neutralize the presence of the worst defender in the NBA (Thomas), thus enabling Thomas to pull out close games in the fourth quarter with his virtuosic offense.

In any event, according to Defensive Real Plus-Minus (which certainly is far from perfect yet generally makes sense), Tyler Ulis presently ranks as merely a slightly below-average defensive point guard, placing fifty-first among ninety "point guards" at -0.92, actually just a little below Eric Bledsoe, whose defense has declined every year in Phoenix and whose defense dropped off dramatically this season.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/1

Whether Ulis can maintain that defensive ranking in an expanded offensive role while matched up against better opponents remains to be seen.
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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#27 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:47 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:He can definitely be a starting PG but I'd see him more as an elite backup point than a just average starting PG.


You can say that all you want, but Ulis had great success at the college level and is currently putting up near-elite starting point guard stats. And that's with his teammates throwing up lots of bricks. 15 and 8 are starter's stats in the NBA. IMO, there simply will not be 30 better point guards in the league. So he should start, here or elsewhere - unless he's on a contender. I could see him as a sixth/seventh man on a top team.
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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#28 » by SideSwipe » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:41 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:He can definitely be a starting PG but I'd see him more as an elite backup point than a just average starting PG.


You can say that all you want, but Ulis had great success at the college level and is currently putting up near-elite starting point guard stats. And that's with his teammates throwing up lots of bricks. 15 and 8 are starter's stats in the NBA. IMO, there simply will not be 30 better point guards in the league. So he should start, here or elsewhere - unless he's on a contender. I could see him as a sixth/seventh man on a top team.


Yeah, the key is to be a net positive. If he keeps putting up 17/11 games he will do great, even if his defense is bad a la Nash. That said, I think he is a better defender than Nash was, though the height thing will always be a concern. That said, if Isaiah can be an All-Star, I've seen nothing from him to suggest he couldn't be as good or better than Thomas at this point.
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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#29 » by TheFire » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:19 pm

SideSwipe wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:He can definitely be a starting PG but I'd see him more as an elite backup point than a just average starting PG.


You can say that all you want, but Ulis had great success at the college level and is currently putting up near-elite starting point guard stats. And that's with his teammates throwing up lots of bricks. 15 and 8 are starter's stats in the NBA. IMO, there simply will not be 30 better point guards in the league. So he should start, here or elsewhere - unless he's on a contender. I could see him as a sixth/seventh man on a top team.


Yeah, the key is to be a net positive. If he keeps putting up 17/11 games he will do great, even if his defense is bad a la Nash. That said, I think he is a better defender than Nash was, though the height thing will always be a concern. That said, if Isaiah can be an All-Star, I've seen nothing from him to suggest he couldn't be as good or better than Thomas at this point.


He needs to develop a 3 point shot if he wants to be as good as IT. Also, will his body at 150 lbs be able to handle 82 games/season a 35+ MPG?
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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#30 » by SideSwipe » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:03 am

TheFire wrote:
SideSwipe wrote:
cosmofizzo wrote:
You can say that all you want, but Ulis had great success at the college level and is currently putting up near-elite starting point guard stats. And that's with his teammates throwing up lots of bricks. 15 and 8 are starter's stats in the NBA. IMO, there simply will not be 30 better point guards in the league. So he should start, here or elsewhere - unless he's on a contender. I could see him as a sixth/seventh man on a top team.


Yeah, the key is to be a net positive. If he keeps putting up 17/11 games he will do great, even if his defense is bad a la Nash. That said, I think he is a better defender than Nash was, though the height thing will always be a concern. That said, if Isaiah can be an All-Star, I've seen nothing from him to suggest he couldn't be as good or better than Thomas at this point.


He needs to develop a 3 point shot if he wants to be as good as IT. Also, will his body at 150 lbs be able to handle 82 games/season a 35+ MPG?


The point is good, but I think Nash played at like 6'3" and 160 for a lot of his career. Steph Curry is also playing with a thin frame that is still 160, I think.
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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#31 » by GMATCallahan » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:15 am

SideSwipe wrote:The point is good, but I think Nash played at like 6'3" and 160 for a lot of his career. Steph Curry is also playing with a thin frame that is still 160, I think.


I would be surprised if Curry is 160 pounds—that would be extremely thin for a 6'3" guy. For what it is worth, his listed weight is 190.

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3975/stephen-curry

Nash's listed weight was 195; in no way was he 160.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html

Nash's listed height was 6'3", but in no way was he 6'3"—guys like Russell Westbrook and Dwyane Wade are about 6'3" (even if Wade is listed at 6'4"); so were Jason Kidd and Gary Payton. I suspect that Nash was more like 6'1" and 1/2—he said once that he was actually 6'2", not 6'3", and even that height was probably rounded up or rounded off.
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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#32 » by GMATCallahan » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:21 am

SideSwipe wrote:Yeah, the key is to be a net positive. If he keeps putting up 17/11 games he will do great, even if his defense is bad a la Nash. That said, I think he is a better defender than Nash was, though the height thing will always be a concern. That said, if Isaiah can be an All-Star, I've seen nothing from him to suggest he couldn't be as good or better than Thomas at this point.


I seriously doubt that Ulis will score like Thomas—Thomas is a historic scorer for his height and even in the history of a fabled franchise.

That said, Ulis is much more of a playmaker than Thomas.
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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#33 » by DirtyDez » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:02 am

Ulis would've been a great backup during the Nash era. My hope is we get Fultz and trade Bledsoe. Fultz can also play some SG so you could have 2/3 of Fultz/Booker/Ulis in at all times.
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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#34 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:12 am

DirtyDez wrote:Ulis would've been a great backup during the Nash era. My hope is we get Fultz and trade Bledsoe. Fultz can also play some SG so you could have 2/3 of Fultz/Booker/Ulis in at all times.

That number pick would solve quite a few issues but I guess you could say that about any team. Getting Fultz and moving Bledsoe is the ideal scenario.
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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#35 » by Damkac » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:34 am

Love the passing but he takes way too many mid range shots.
Needs to add muscles and 3pt shot to be really good player.
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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#36 » by Voldemort » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:37 am

darealjuice wrote:If IT can be one of the better players in the league at his size, then I don't see why Ulis can't eventually reach starter level. I wouldn't be comfortable with it going into next year though. He needs to gain some weight, get stronger, and add a 3 point shot to his game. I do know that he's already made Knight look expendable and this is his first year.

IT makes up for his height disadvantage by being an elite shooter from midrange and 3pt range.

IT came into the NBA as a pretty good shooter.

Ulis is a better playmaker than IT but Ulis has very little scoring ability. He can improve his shot but I doubt it will ever be elite like IT's.

I think Ulis ceiling is Ricky Rubio. Great passer, good defender, high bball IQ but not much else.
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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#37 » by Shady Franchise » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:30 pm

Hey guys. I know Ulis has solidified himself as your team's backup PG, but I wanted to get a better idea of his value. Would you trade Ulis+ future 1st for Gordon? Reading through this thread I've noticed some are really high on him (future starter, maybe better than IT), and some are a little more reserved (fringe starter, upper end 6th man). Please educate me on his value. Thanks.
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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#38 » by Frank Lee » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:46 pm

He'll play 1/10 of the minutes at 1/100 of the cost.

His value is not measured by other players as much as his cost/production. You just can't find much more bang for the buck. Teams need these kind of players/contracts.
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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#39 » by ATTL » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:57 pm

Shady Franchise wrote:Hey guys. I know Ulis has solidified himself as your team's backup PG, but I wanted to get a better idea of his value. Would you trade Ulis+ future 1st for Gordon? Reading through this thread I've noticed some are really high on him (future starter, maybe better than IT), and some are a little more reserved (fringe starter, upper end 6th man). Please educate me on his value. Thanks.


We don't really have space for Gordon in our front court right now. Plus he's bffs with Booker so that could complicate things
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Re: Can Tyler Ulis become a starter in the NBA? 

Post#40 » by Shady Franchise » Wed Jun 28, 2017 4:59 pm

ATTL wrote:
Shady Franchise wrote:Hey guys. I know Ulis has solidified himself as your team's backup PG, but I wanted to get a better idea of his value. Would you trade Ulis+ future 1st for Gordon? Reading through this thread I've noticed some are really high on him (future starter, maybe better than IT), and some are a little more reserved (fringe starter, upper end 6th man). Please educate me on his value. Thanks.


We don't really have space for Gordon in our front court right now. Plus he's bffs with Booker so that could complicate things


Oh ok. Thanks. Figured Gordon was the only player you'd want from the Magic minus Isaac. You have young PFs already, so I agree.
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