Knicks-Jazz PG Thread

[Kinglee]

Thanks man.

Some people here think Melo is still a better player and advocate to trade KP or reduce his role in the offense in favor of Melo. It's good to see opposing fans providing a fresh take.

When you say "some people" you mean "one person" right?

There are two actually. kinglee?

KP is a better player than Carmelo?

If this is a game y'all want to use as an example for Carmelo, please explain to me. So KP got absolutely dominated, but because he scored 24 points he had a good game. But if Carmelo puts up that very same statline (well he averaged 23/6/3) and let another guy even have a decent game, Carmelo gets bashed. Didn't KP literally just score points and do nothing else this game? Now he's better than Carmelo? Huh?

The guy he guarded had 33/13 with 11 offensive boards. My goodness!

And no I never advocated to reduce KP role. I said he's fine in his role now. How many games do we have to see that the guy isn't that good at creating his own shot and his shot selection is horrible?

It's amazing how I get called out for bashing KP, but I get randomly bought up for what? I want KP to be great, understand that! I want the Knicks to win a championship before I die, understand that! Sorry if I'm not all high off a 7'3 guy shooting 3s. Every damn team has a center of Power forward that shoot 3s now, it's nothing rare or "special" about the guy, especially because he isn't the sharpshooter we thought he was, at least as of right now. Sorry for giving A realistic take in the guy. Everyone ignores that I call him an ELITE rim protector, but points out that I talk about his offense which is quite simple VERY LIMITED.

[DOT]

Don't kill me, I like KP being featured more and getting more shots and he needs this for development, but I look at ALL players stats in these late, "don't really matter too much" games where some stat padding goes on, with a bit of skepticism. I think KP probably played well, but again there is some late season padding for younger players and I sort of hold judgement if this is/was progress until next year.

I'll take him getting reps and opportunity in real games though.

You're right on that general point, but in this circumstance, we're playing a good defensive team who's trying to keep home court advantage in the playoffs, and KP is going up against their best defensive player.
While KP did have a good game offensively, Gobert absolutely destroyed him on the other end, mostly due to his rebounding ability and strength. Honestly, if KP should work with anyone over the summer, it should be Gobert, as he has a similar body type, and was able to add strength without too much weight

[K_ick_God]

I do think strength and stamina are 2 big things for KP. He could be a monster if those things are up to NBA average as he matures.

[MartinsLusis]

This game is exactly why Porzingis is not a 5. Great strategy for tank, but centers will keep dominating us next year. KP needs a Tyson chandler type like Dirk had.

Or maybe KP who isn't even ready yet still scored 24 points on a good enough efficiency? And Gobert didn't even score on KP that much.

[thebuzzardman]

Don't kill me, I like KP being featured more and getting more shots and he needs this for development, but I look at ALL players stats in these late, "don't really matter too much" games where some stat padding goes on, with a bit of skepticism. I think KP probably played well, but again there is some late season padding for younger players and I sort of hold judgement if this is/was progress until next year.

I'll take him getting reps and opportunity in real games though.

You're right on that general point, but in this circumstance, we're playing a good defensive team who's trying to keep home court advantage in the playoffs, and KP is going up against their best defensive player.
While KP did have a good game offensively, Gobert absolutely destroyed him on the other end, mostly due to his rebounding ability and strength. Honestly, if KP should work with anyone over the summer, it should be Gobert, as he has a similar body type, and was able to add strength without too much weight

According to a pretty good break down, most of Goberts destroying seemed to be on WHG or KOQ or because of poor guard play (no way!). I'm sure he still bodied him up a lot as they profile similarly athletically but with Gobert having strength on him with more years.

[Fat]

This game is exactly why Porzingis is not a 5. Great strategy for tank, but centers will keep dominating us next year. KP needs a Tyson chandler type like Dirk had.

Right now he"s not but when he fills out he will be. Him not being a 5 right now is no reason for him to not play it though, he needs to get used to it

[Kinglee]

I do think strength and stamina are 2 big things for KP. He could be a monster if those things are up to NBA average as he matures.

If KP had strength and learned how to guard in the post, my outlook would change on the guy completely. No I don't think he will be Dirk 2.0, but him already with his rim protection ability paired with ability to guard in the post would make him a pretty damn good piece to have. Like I keep saying he's a 3 point shooter that can block shots, but if it's not blocking shots at the rim he can't play defense. If he played good defense he would be a nice piece to have.

[MP4LIFE]

When you say "some people" you mean "one person" right?

There are two actually. kinglee?

KP is a better player than Carmelo?

If this is a game y'all want to use as an example for Carmelo, please explain to me. So KP got absolutely dominated, but because he scored 24 points he had a good game. But if Carmelo puts up that very same statline (well he averaged 23/6/3) and let another guy even have a decent game, Carmelo gets bashed. Didn't KP literally just score points and do nothing else this game? Now he's better than Carmelo? Huh?

The guy he guarded had 33/13 with 11 offensive boards. My goodness!

And no I never advocated to reduce KP role. I said he's fine in his role now. How many games do we have to see that the guy isn't that good at creating his own shot and his shot selection is horrible?

It's amazing how I get called out for bashing KP, but I get randomly bought up for what? I want KP to be great, understand that! I want the Knicks to win a championship before I die, understand that! Sorry if I'm not all high off a 7'3 guy shooting 3s. Every damn team has a center of Power forward that shoot 3s now, it's nothing rare or "special" about the guy, especially because he isn't the sharpshooter we thought he was, at least as of right now. Sorry for giving A realistic take in the guy. Everyone ignores that I call him an ELITE rim protector, but points out that I talk about his offense which is quite simple VERY LIMITED.

Very limited...like your basketball IQ.

[thebuzzardman]

Well, watching a highlight clip, I saw KP put 15 points on Goebert directly. I realize Gobert had a career game (not all against KP) but KP looked good against him offense in a variety of ways (3 pointers, pull up jumper, P&R and a couple of drives)

[K_ick_God]

I want KP to be great, understand that!

Then you should be happy, because he is driving and getting where he wants, with some dunks, at will.

When he gets stronger he'll be able to neutralize a lot of what Gobert did last night, and other than excellent garbage points and turnstile picks, Gobert doesn't have any of that offensive talent.

Dray Green is not politically correct and said KP will be a great player in this league for a long time to come.

Your bias is clear and boring.

[K_ick_God]

I do think strength and stamina are 2 big things for KP. He could be a monster if those things are up to NBA average as he matures.

If KP had strength and learned how to guard in the post, my outlook would change on the guy completely. No I don't think he will be Dirk 2.0, but him already with his rim protection ability paired with ability to guard in the post would make him a pretty damn good piece to have. Like I keep saying he's a 3 point shooter that can block shots, but if it's not blocking shots at the rim he can't play defense. If he played good defense he would be a nice piece to have.

It's guaranteed he'll be stronger. Dunno about stamina. That and injuries probably only thing that can stop him from at least near greatness.

You want so badly to say he's a tall jump shooter but it's obvious he can do more with the ball, just needs time, and obvious he's a committed and high-ceiling defender. Just needs time and some D around him.

Also he needs something better than terrible guard play and Melo and Rose tunnel vision chucking.

[Kinglee]

I want KP to be great, understand that!

Then you should be happy, because he is driving and getting where he wants, with some dunks, at will.

When he gets stronger he'll be able to neutralize a lot of what Gobert did last night, and other than excellent garbage points and turnstile picks, Gobert doesn't have any of that offensive talent.

Dray Green is not politically correct and said KP will be a great player in this league for a long time to come.

Your bias is clear and boring.

If KP was driving and gets where he want at will, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. That is completely false which is why I bring up his shot selection a lot.

I agree Gobbert has no offensive game, I spoke on that earlier when someone mentioned how much Rudy improved from year 2 to now. Only difference is really the opportunity. I'm a fan of Gobbert because he's a defensive monster and he finishes in the paint. The same way players can be dominant on offense, he's dominant on defense.

Dray Green said he can be a great player and Pierce called him Bargs. What exactly is your point. I don't have to be a fan of any particular player, and just because a NBA player praised someone doesn't exactly mean it's true. These Organizations pay scouts a lot of money to scout players and still draft busts.

If I'm wrong on a player, the play will show me I'm wrong. As of now, it isn't. So if my bias is that KP is limited and I'm watching with my eyes that he's limited, then someone telling me otherwise is irrelevant.

[WajaBawl]

Didn't watch the game, anyone know why Randle only played one freaking minute the entire game? Wasn't Jeff supposed to cut back on the vets mins and help develop the young guys?

[thebuzzardman]

There are two actually. kinglee?

KP is a better player than Carmelo?

If this is a game y'all want to use as an example for Carmelo, please explain to me. So KP got absolutely dominated, but because he scored 24 points he had a good game. But if Carmelo puts up that very same statline (well he averaged 23/6/3) and let another guy even have a decent game, Carmelo gets bashed. Didn't KP literally just score points and do nothing else this game? Now he's better than Carmelo? Huh?

The guy he guarded had 33/13 with 11 offensive boards. My goodness!

And no I never advocated to reduce KP role. I said he's fine in his role now. How many games do we have to see that the guy isn't that good at creating his own shot and his shot selection is horrible?

It's amazing how I get called out for bashing KP, but I get randomly bought up for what? I want KP to be great, understand that! I want the Knicks to win a championship before I die, understand that! Sorry if I'm not all high off a 7'3 guy shooting 3s. Every damn team has a center of Power forward that shoot 3s now, it's nothing rare or "special" about the guy, especially because he isn't the sharpshooter we thought he was, at least as of right now. Sorry for giving A realistic take in the guy. Everyone ignores that I call him an ELITE rim protector, but points out that I talk about his offense which is quite simple VERY LIMITED.

Very limited...like your basketball IQ.

How many of the other good shooting PF/C's are 7'3 and elite rim protectors? I get that KP's most obvious skill seems (or is) less special as lots of PF's and a good number of C's can shoot the 3 and more importantly have the green light to do it (I'd bet most players shoot the 3 pretty good....they have been playing ball most of their life, I'd hope so) but the fact that KP has the height and more importantly, the athleticism and enough savvy (which could get better) to do it, while being a pretty good outside shooter - that's not somewhat compelling? I mean, part of the reason he's a good shotblocker is his height alone, yet it's a pretty sure thing in the NBA, even now, that for every inch taller a guy gets, there is basically a downward trend in his ability to shoot well from the outside. So while Cousins, Embiid and B Lopez shoot well at approximately 6'10- 7'0, shooting well at 3-4 inches taller is something else again.

I was bashing KP for a while, though a lot of it was tongue in cheek/trolling. But legitimately I get the concern that there may not be enough more to the guy (though even what he is isn't bad) - where he looks awkward in space, gets some tunnel vision, can't create all that well often enough (has some moments too) but on the other hand, minus the post game, he shows nice fundamentals in terms of running hooks, baby hooks, going glass, good form on his jumper, can pull up for jumpers, that usually, as fans, we are sort of clamoring for our C to be able to do. I don't know, I've said often enough over the years about bigs things like "I wish he could diversify his game more" or "if only he had a jump shot he'd be much better". Now, I get we are sort of doing that with KP with "If only his post game were better" but I think he shows a lot of fundamental "base" to his game where I'm pretty encouraged he'll develop more in a well rounded way to be better than he is now. Meaning, there is enough gym rat fundamentals under what is pretty good athleticism for tall guy, opposed to other players who are stronger but whose skills leave more to be desired.

[Kinglee]

I do think strength and stamina are 2 big things for KP. He could be a monster if those things are up to NBA average as he matures.

If KP had strength and learned how to guard in the post, my outlook would change on the guy completely. No I don't think he will be Dirk 2.0, but him already with his rim protection ability paired with ability to guard in the post would make him a pretty damn good piece to have. Like I keep saying he's a 3 point shooter that can block shots, but if it's not blocking shots at the rim he can't play defense. If he played good defense he would be a nice piece to have.

It's guaranteed he'll be stronger. Dunno about stamina. That and injuries probably only thing that can stop him from at least near greatness.

You want so badly to say he's a tall jump shooter but it's obvious he can do more with the ball, just needs time, and obvious he's a committed and high-ceiling defender. Just needs time and some D around him.

Also he needs something better than terrible guard play and Melo and Rose tunnel vision chucking.

A player going to the basket one or two times a game doesn't change the fact that he's a jump shooter. Put it this way, he's 7'3 and shooting under 45%. Where exactly are his shots coming from?

[K_ick_God]

I want KP to be great, understand that!

Then you should be happy, because he is driving and getting where he wants, with some dunks, at will.

When he gets stronger he'll be able to neutralize a lot of what Gobert did last night, and other than excellent garbage points and turnstile picks, Gobert doesn't have any of that offensive talent.

Dray Green is not politically correct and said KP will be a great player in this league for a long time to come.

Your bias is clear and boring.

If KP was driving and gets where he want at will, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. That is completely false which is why I bring up his shot selection a lot.

I agree Gobbert has no offensive game, I spoke on that earlier when someone mentioned how much Rudy improved from year 2 to now. Only difference is really the opportunity. I'm a fan of Gobbert because he's a defensive monster and he finishes in the paint. The same way players can be dominant on offense, he's dominant on defense.

Dray Green said he can be a great player and Pierce called him Bargs. What exactly is your point. I don't have to be a fan of any particular player, and just because a NBA player praised someone doesn't exactly mean it's true. These Organizations pay scouts a lot of money to scout players and still draft busts.

If I'm wrong on a player, the play will show me I'm wrong. As of now, it isn't. So if my bias is that KP is limited and I'm watching with my eyes that he's limited, then someone telling me otherwise is irrelevant.

He drove and dunked 2 times. He did it a third time and the ball popped out. He also drove into the paint a handful of other times and got scores.

If a guy can do that a couple times during his 2nd season, then it means he can do it. He will get better at it. It wasn't some one-off lol.

That's how you scout guys. Scouting is defined as looking at a player and seeing what he might be able to do in the future based on what he shows in games Otherwise they'd call it "reporting" ... but it's not. It's called "scouting" for a reason.

If Gobert drove from the arc and dunked on KP once, just once, you'd never shut up about it.

You're biased. Just accept that you're nowhere neutral on KP's future ... or even his present.

[Milk]

When you say "some people" you mean "one person" right?

There are two actually. kinglee?

KP is a better player than Carmelo?

If this is a game y'all want to use as an example for Carmelo, please explain to me. So KP got absolutely dominated, but because he scored 24 points he had a good game. But if Carmelo puts up that very same statline (well he averaged 23/6/3) and let another guy even have a decent game, Carmelo gets bashed. Didn't KP literally just score points and do nothing else this game? Now he's better than Carmelo? Huh?

The guy he guarded had 33/13 with 11 offensive boards. My goodness!

And no I never advocated to reduce KP role. I said he's fine in his role now. How many games do we have to see that the guy isn't that good at creating his own shot and his shot selection is horrible?

It's amazing how I get called out for bashing KP, but I get randomly bought up for what? I want KP to be great, understand that! I want the Knicks to win a championship before I die, understand that! Sorry if I'm not all high off a 7'3 guy shooting 3s. Every damn team has a center of Power forward that shoot 3s now, it's nothing rare or "special" about the guy, especially because he isn't the sharpshooter we thought he was, at least as of right now. Sorry for giving A realistic take in the guy. Everyone ignores that I call him an ELITE rim protector, but points out that I talk about his offense which is quite simple VERY LIMITED.

Ok, KP sucks.
Let's just trade him away for the 10th pick in the draft you so desperately wanted (Lauri Markkanen/Miles Bridges).

Let's just build around Melo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Milk]

Then you should be happy, because he is driving and getting where he wants, with some dunks, at will.

When he gets stronger he'll be able to neutralize a lot of what Gobert did last night, and other than excellent garbage points and turnstile picks, Gobert doesn't have any of that offensive talent.

Dray Green is not politically correct and said KP will be a great player in this league for a long time to come.

Your bias is clear and boring.

If KP was driving and gets where he want at will, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. That is completely false which is why I bring up his shot selection a lot.

I agree Gobbert has no offensive game, I spoke on that earlier when someone mentioned how much Rudy improved from year 2 to now. Only difference is really the opportunity. I'm a fan of Gobbert because he's a defensive monster and he finishes in the paint. The same way players can be dominant on offense, he's dominant on defense.

Dray Green said he can be a great player and Pierce called him Bargs. What exactly is your point. I don't have to be a fan of any particular player, and just because a NBA player praised someone doesn't exactly mean it's true. These Organizations pay scouts a lot of money to scout players and still draft busts.

If I'm wrong on a player, the play will show me I'm wrong. As of now, it isn't. So if my bias is that KP is limited and I'm watching with my eyes that he's limited, then someone telling me otherwise is irrelevant.

He drove and dunked 2 times. He did it a third time and the ball popped out. He also drove into the paint a handful of other times and got scores.

If a guy can do that a couple times during his 2nd season, then it means he can do it. He will get better at it. It wasn't some one-off lol.

That's how you scout guys. Scouting is defined as looking at a player and seeing what he might be able to do in the future based on what he shows in games Otherwise they'd call it "reporting" ... but it's not. It's called "scouting" for a reason.

If Gobert drove from the arc and dunked on KP once, just once, you'd never shut up about it.

You're biased. Just accept that you're nowhere neutral on KP's future ... or even his present.

He wanted to trade KP for the 10th pick in this draft. That alone tells you how he feels about KP.

[Yankeeknickfan]

2nd game i missed in a row. it feels good. if i keep this up i'm gonna go apologize to family and friends for being obsessed with the knicks like they do in aa.

You'll be back Saturday

[ChaosHamster]

I didn't count myself, but based on this thread, KP scored 15pts, and Gobert 9 when they guarded each other.

I didn't watch the game, but I guess they scored some on offensive rebs Gobert got against him, so thats why there were even talk about "GOBERT DOMINATED KP".