Knicks-Jazz PG Thread

[blueNorange]

i get the frustrations with KP.. but i think we should give him more time too. look how gobert and giannis turned out. those guys weren't that good in their first years. even if KP stays the same player for the rest of his career, he's still good. what we need to focus on is getting KP help for the future, especially an alpha. i don't want this to turn into the carmelo anthony 2.0 all over again. we need to surround our best players with talent. this all starts with the draft

cousins didn't have a good season until his 4th season in the nba.

[Oscirus]

Its still going..

Who`s been convinced by Lee that KP isn't even that good? Anyone?

At first I came in xpecting him to be goat but after reading Kinglee, he's convinced me we need to make a trade asap. Maybe if we're lucky, the Cavs will give us their first rounder before the secret comes out.

[K_ick_God]

Yes, Novak was an elite shooter and not a good offensive player. Yes, you're 100% right. You see it's possible. Thank you for making my point. Case in point that playoff series against I believe the Heat where he was scared ****.

I get what you mean, but an elite rim protector is closer to a great defensive player, then a good shooter is to a great offensive player.

No. STAT was a really good shot blocker.
Brook Lopez averages 1.7 per game and we all know he's trash on defense.

Hassan Whiteside averages over 2 blocks per game and sucks on defense too.

Nobody would call Amar'e an elite rim protector. There are obviously shades of difference. KP is not up to speed on PNR D and makes mistakes (which you have correctly pointed out, turning his back to the ball, etc.). But he's not Amar'e either. And it'd be nuts to call Amar'e an elite rim protector.

[3toheadmelo]

i get the frustrations with KP.. but i think we should give him more time too. look how gobert and giannis turned out. those guys weren't that good in their first years. even if KP stays the same player for the rest of his career, he's still good. what we need to focus on is getting KP help for the future, especially an alpha. i don't want this to turn into the carmelo anthony 2.0 all over again. we need to surround our best players with talent. this all starts with the draft

cousins didn't have a good season until his 4th season in the nba.

his numbers are actually similar to KP in his first two years. he only beats KP with rebounding. but you get the point, we need to give our players time. you can even look at tim hardaway jr.. kid turned out to be a decent player too.

[Greenie]

KP is an elite rim protector, I've stated that 1000 times. What's your point?

weren't you arguing against his defense? You make no sense

Basically saying he's an elite rim protector but nowhere as far as team D. So basically like saying a guy is an elite shooter but not a good offensive player.

Wow.
Eddie House
Bobbie Gibson
Steve Novak
Steve Kerr

You can be elite at one part of offense/defense and bad at the rest.

And if KP is so damn good at holding down the paint, in the amount of minutes played why does our defense look so bad?

If he's so good at holding down the paint shouldn't our defensive philosophy be to funnel everything to him like we did with Tyson?

[blueNorange]

i get the frustrations with KP.. but i think we should give him more time too. look how gobert and giannis turned out. those guys weren't that good in their first years. even if KP stays the same player for the rest of his career, he's still good. what we need to focus on is getting KP help for the future, especially an alpha. i don't want this to turn into the carmelo anthony 2.0 all over again. we need to surround our best players with talent. this all starts with the draft

cousins didn't have a good season until his 4th season in the nba.

his numbers are actually similar to KP in his first two years. he only beats KP with rebounding. but you get the point, we need to give our players time. you can even look at tim hardaway jr.. kid turned out to be a decent player too.

kristaps first 2 seasons

rookie - .518 ts%
sophomore - .544 ts%

cousins first 2 seasons

rookie - .484 ts%
sophomore - .499 ts%

cousins first 2 seasons in the nba were so bad that he's lucky he played in sacramento because anywhere else and this plug gets pulled.

[Oscirus]

weren't you arguing against his defense? You make no sense

Basically saying he's an elite rim protector but nowhere as far as team D. So basically like saying a guy is an elite shooter but not a good offensive player.

Wow.
Eddie House
Bobbie Gibson
Steve Novak
Steve Kerr

You can be elite at one part of offense/defense and bad at the rest.

And if KP is so damn good at holding down the paint, in the amount of minutes played why does our defense look so bad?

If he's so good at holding down the paint shouldn't our defensive philosophy be to funnel everything to him like we did with Tyson?

So we're now pretending that all coaches have the same defensive philosophies?

[DOT]

Right, BnO's been gone for so long I forgot the only stat that matters for him is TS%
Otto Porter > LeBron this year

[Greenie]

I get what you mean, but an elite rim protector is closer to a great defensive player, then a good shooter is to a great offensive player.

No. STAT was a really good shot blocker.
Brook Lopez averages 1.7 per game and we all know he's trash on defense.

Hassan Whiteside averages over 2 blocks per game and sucks on defense too.

Nobody would call Amar'e an elite rim protector. There are obviously shades of difference. KP is not up to speed on PNR D and makes mistakes (which you have correctly pointed out, turning his back to the ball, etc.). But he's not Amar'e either. And it'd be nuts to call Amar'e an elite rim protector.

I would never call STAT a defensive player. People love to point to blocks and say that's a good defensive player, so I guess when STAT averaged over two blocks per game he was a good player player? Or when he averaged 1.9 blocks per game his first year? Or his career average of over a block per game?

He was a solid defensive player according to blocks. Now when you watched him it was a different story. That's my point.

[3toheadmelo]

cousins didn't have a good season until his 4th season in the nba.

his numbers are actually similar to KP in his first two years. he only beats KP with rebounding. but you get the point, we need to give our players time. you can even look at tim hardaway jr.. kid turned out to be a decent player too.

kristaps first 2 seasons

rookie - .518 ts%
sophomore - .544 ts%

cousins first 2 seasons

rookie - .484 ts%
sophomore - .499 ts%

cousins first 2 seasons in the nba were so bad that he's lucky he played in sacramento because anywhere else and this plug gets pulled.

i dont really care much about ts tbh. john wall has a low ts but he's a top 5 point guard in the league

[K_ick_God]

weren't you arguing against his defense? You make no sense

Basically saying he's an elite rim protector but nowhere as far as team D. So basically like saying a guy is an elite shooter but not a good offensive player.

Wow.
Eddie House
Bobbie Gibson
Steve Novak
Steve Kerr

You can be elite at one part of offense/defense and bad at the rest.

And if KP is so damn good at holding down the paint, in the amount of minutes played why does our defense look so bad?

If he's so good at holding down the paint shouldn't our defensive philosophy be to funnel everything to him like we did with Tyson?

All those guys could shoot, none of them was an elite shooter. They were guys who could hit open shots, which their teammates gave them. Not comparable to contesting the most number of shots and stopping shots in the paint. That's more like Reggie Miller as far as shooting than Boobie Gibson, right?

Also I was saying that they are good offensive players, and while I wouldn't call them elite, Kerr and House were good offensive players when they could get on the court with great teammates. You disagree that they were good/useful/helpful/net positives?

[Greenie]

He doesn't have the same issues as in the video. If you want to say he has strength issues, fine. But in that video, he wasn't even trying in the plays that they highlighted.
I'm fine with his being a finesse type player, hell, I've repeatedly said that he needs bruisers down low to do the dirty work, but this theory that he doesn't like the phisicality down low is false. He engages down there just fine.

How does he engage down there just fine when he allows weaker players to push him out of position on a regular basis?

So despite the fact that his post up game wasn't even the thing the video that you posted were referencing we're going with that now? I love that he now just lets himself get pushed around. It's almost as if you haven't heard of a thing called leverage or as if KP isn't a fairly new player learning how to counteract it. Nope he's a weak ass bitch because his post up game doesn't meet your standards right now!

Wow

Yes it was. They showed him doing his turnaround fadeaway. He air balled it...


And stop putting words in my mouth. I never called him a weak ass bitch and I don't hold him to any type of standard when it comes to the post since that's not his game. That's all you. You're the one projecting what you hope he develops into. I'm calling a spade a spade. He's a finesse big. I'm cool with that. You're the one having a hard time with it.

[Greenie]

Basically saying he's an elite rim protector but nowhere as far as team D. So basically like saying a guy is an elite shooter but not a good offensive player.

Wow.
Eddie House
Bobbie Gibson
Steve Novak
Steve Kerr

You can be elite at one part of offense/defense and bad at the rest.

And if KP is so damn good at holding down the paint, in the amount of minutes played why does our defense look so bad?

If he's so good at holding down the paint shouldn't our defensive philosophy be to funnel everything to him like we did with Tyson?

All those guys could shoot, none of them was an elite shooter. They were guys who could hit open shots, which their teammates gave them. Not comparable to contesting the most number of shots and stopping shots in the paint. That's more like Reggie Miller as far as shooting than Boobie Gibson, right?

Also I was saying that they are good offensive players, and while I wouldn't call them elite, Kerr and House were good offensive players when they could get on the court with great teammates. You disagree that they were good/useful/helpful/net positives?

Yes. They were shooters and did nothing else, hence why they came off the bench. So no, I don't consider them good offensive players.

[Greenie]

Basically saying he's an elite rim protector but nowhere as far as team D. So basically like saying a guy is an elite shooter but not a good offensive player.

Wow.
Eddie House
Bobbie Gibson
Steve Novak
Steve Kerr

You can be elite at one part of offense/defense and bad at the rest.

And if KP is so damn good at holding down the paint, in the amount of minutes played why does our defense look so bad?

If he's so good at holding down the paint shouldn't our defensive philosophy be to funnel everything to him like we did with Tyson?

So we're now pretending that all coaches have the same defensive philosophies?

No we're pretending that blocked shots = great defensive players...

[Yankeeknickfan]

Basically saying he's an elite rim protector but nowhere as far as team D. So basically like saying a guy is an elite shooter but not a good offensive player.

Wow.
Eddie House
Bobbie Gibson
Steve Novak
Steve Kerr

You can be elite at one part of offense/defense and bad at the rest.

And if KP is so damn good at holding down the paint, in the amount of minutes played why does our defense look so bad?

If he's so good at holding down the paint shouldn't our defensive philosophy be to funnel everything to him like we did with Tyson?

So we're now pretending that all coaches have the same defensive philosophies?

or that Rambis knows what the fuq he's doing

[Yankeeknickfan]

Wow.
Eddie House
Bobbie Gibson
Steve Novak
Steve Kerr

You can be elite at one part of offense/defense and bad at the rest.

And if KP is so damn good at holding down the paint, in the amount of minutes played why does our defense look so bad?

If he's so good at holding down the paint shouldn't our defensive philosophy be to funnel everything to him like we did with Tyson?

So we're now pretending that all coaches have the same defensive philosophies?

No we're pretending that blocked shots = great defensive players...

It's not about blocked shots

When being guarded by KP in the paint, opponents only make around 43% of their shots.

[robillionaire]

KP main issue is that he fouls too much. Most of the time it's avoidable. It has taken him out of many games this season. He needs to correct this.

[Oscirus]

Wow.
Eddie House
Bobbie Gibson
Steve Novak
Steve Kerr

You can be elite at one part of offense/defense and bad at the rest.

And if KP is so damn good at holding down the paint, in the amount of minutes played why does our defense look so bad?

If he's so good at holding down the paint shouldn't our defensive philosophy be to funnel everything to him like we did with Tyson?

So we're now pretending that all coaches have the same defensive philosophies?

No we're pretending that blocked shots = great defensive players...

As we conveniently ignore the fact that KP has other stats to back up the assertion that he's a good rim defender. But Yea, all he does is block shots

[K_ick_God]

Wow.
Eddie House
Bobbie Gibson
Steve Novak
Steve Kerr

You can be elite at one part of offense/defense and bad at the rest.

And if KP is so damn good at holding down the paint, in the amount of minutes played why does our defense look so bad?

If he's so good at holding down the paint shouldn't our defensive philosophy be to funnel everything to him like we did with Tyson?

All those guys could shoot, none of them was an elite shooter. They were guys who could hit open shots, which their teammates gave them. Not comparable to contesting the most number of shots and stopping shots in the paint. That's more like Reggie Miller as far as shooting than Boobie Gibson, right?

Also I was saying that they are good offensive players, and while I wouldn't call them elite, Kerr and House were good offensive players when they could get on the court with great teammates. You disagree that they were good/useful/helpful/net positives?

Yes. They were shooters and did nothing else, hence why they came off the bench. So no, I don't consider them good offensive players.

I really don't think that anybody would call them elite shooters ... elite is a high standard, like 2 or 3 best. But their 3 point shooting percentages were very high when they could get off their shots ... which required being on really good teams with great players around them.

But when Kerr and House got time, and space, and got off 3's that went in at an "elite percentage" yes I think they were good offensive players. Just filling a narrow role but filling it in a good way lol.

IIRC correctly Kerr was a starter on all those Bulls title teams.

[Greenie]

i get the frustrations with KP.. but i think we should give him more time too. look how gobert and giannis turned out. those guys weren't that good in their first years. even if KP stays the same player for the rest of his career, he's still good. what we need to focus on is getting KP help for the future, especially an alpha. i don't want this to turn into the carmelo anthony 2.0 all over again. we need to surround our best players with talent. this all starts with the draft

I'm not frustrated with KP at all. I accept him as he is. I'm starting to think the rest of the board doesn't.