Frank Ntilikina

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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#161 » by Bob8 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:08 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
Bob8 wrote:I don't like Frank to much, but my guess is Frank would have something like 40, 20, 15 in games we have seen George playing. You really have to take in big consideration where someone is playing. This is like slow motion, you can't get any conclusions from that video.


I seriously hope you are joking....De Paula plays in the first Brazilian league. That's a competitive league. Outside of NBA and the better European leagues, it's the highest quality national league there is, certainly better than leagues like China, or even Australia, and certainly better than the bad European leagues.

No way in the world could Ntilikina put up any numbers even remotely close to that...not even in a single just one game could he ever have numbers like that in Brazil's league. Seriously....have you never seen a Brazilian club playing before? It's a decent league.


I said in the games where we saw George in the video. Is that in Brazil's league? It looks like school game to me.;)
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#162 » by The-Power » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:08 pm

Grits n Gravy wrote:I know very little of both of their games but both are physically very similar - are big 6'5/6'6, long and pretty athletic guards(Frank does seem more athletic) though ones projected as a top 10 pick while the other is a second rounder.

I can only speak about Ntilikina but there are some things about Frank that stand out besides his length. Well, length must be mentioned explicitly when talking about Ntilikina because he has crazy long arms - he's not just long, he's very long.

So, when talking about Frank's potential we're talking about the full package.

1) Defense. Ntilikina is extremely disruptive on defense both man-to-man and in the lanes (although he could improve in this regard). Down the road he's going to be able to check 1's, 2's and most 3's. His defensive versatility combined with the tools (and mindset) to be elite in each task assigned to him makes him so intriguing on that end.

2) Shooting/Off-ball play. Ntilikina has shown that he can play off the ball in a reduced role as well as a primary ballhandler in the FIBA U18 tournament. In both roles he's shown good signs as a shooter. He can not only pull up as the ballhandler, he's also a capable catch-and-shoot player who - and this can't be understated - really understands to get into the spots where he can catch and shoot with off-ball movement. He's not someone who runs through screens á la Redick, Korver, Thompson etc. but he moves smartly.

3) PnR-potential. Arguably the most understated aspect of his game. He's really a cerebral playmaker in the PnR who plays under control and finds the rolling bigs, shooters at the perimeter or pulls up himself. Not a great game manager but he should definitely be able to run the PnR at the next level and that's very valuable in today's NBA.

Of course he has to work on a lot of things. He needs to tighten up his handles and he must work on finishing around the rim if he wants to be a PG or 15+PPG scorer in the NBA. Without that he can't break down defenses and will struggle to get to the rim and/or get good looks there. He's quick but doesn't have an overwhelming first step. His shooting ability will help him to find room for penetration but right now he can't exploit it. Also his motor could be higher despite him being a good defender. He plays on both ends in that he'll do what's asked of him consistently but he often doesn't find the next gear great players usually display frequently during games.

Ntilikina should be at the very least a good 3&D player at the wing with smart playmaking and good but not elite shooting - that's a great baseline. Considering his age and potential in all areas his ceiling is obviously higher. Could be great as one of two primary playmakers on the floor and a high-level combo guard on both ends of the floor.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#163 » by Bob8 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:13 pm

Bob8 wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
Bob8 wrote:I don't like Frank to much, but my guess is Frank would have something like 40, 20, 15 in games we have seen George playing. You really have to take in big consideration where someone is playing. This is like slow motion, you can't get any conclusions from that video.


I seriously hope you are joking....De Paula plays in the first Brazilian league. That's a competitive league. Outside of NBA and the better European leagues, it's the highest quality national league there is, certainly better than leagues like China, or even Australia, and certainly better than the bad European leagues.

No way in the world could Ntilikina put up any numbers even remotely close to that...not even in a single just one game could he ever have numbers like that in Brazil's league. Seriously....have you never seen a Brazilian club playing before? It's a decent league.


I said in the games where we saw George in the video. Is that in Brazil's league? It looks like school game to me.;)


I see now Nike signs everywhere. Something tournament under 18 I guess. School league. :D
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#164 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:13 pm

Bob8 wrote:I said in the games where we saw George in the video. Is that in Brazil's league? It looks like school game to me.;)


Of course that is some kind of high school age tournament. I assure you that no way in hell is that Brazil's top league. And that Ntilikina probably could not average even 1/3 of the numbers you posted in that league.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#165 » by Bob8 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:19 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
I seriously hope you are joking....De Paula plays in the first Brazilian league. That's a competitive league. Outside of NBA and the better European leagues, it's the highest quality national league there is, certainly better than leagues like China, or even Australia, and certainly better than the bad European leagues.

No way in the world could Ntilikina put up any numbers even remotely close to that...not even in a single just one game could he ever have numbers like that in Brazil's league. Seriously....have you never seen a Brazilian club playing before? It's a decent league.


I said in the games where we saw George in the video. Is that in Brazil's league? It looks like school game to me.;)


Of course that is some kind of high school age tournament. I assure you that no way in hell is that Brazil's top league. And that Ntilikina probably could not average even 1/3 of the numbers you posted in that league.


I said you can't judge anything on that footage and that Ntilikina could do anything he want on that kind of tournament as any other good prospect could. I never talked about Brazilian league.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#166 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:21 pm

Bob8 wrote:I said you can't judge anything on that footage and that Ntilikina could do anything he want on that kind of tournament as any other good prospect could. I never talked about Brazilian league.


OK, but what is your point in saying that? De Paula does not play in an under-18 league now. He plays in Brazil's first league. So yeah, there is no reason not to be able to compare the two.

De Paula's number's in the NBB league in Brazil:

26.9 minutes per game

41.1 FG%
38.3 3 PT FG%
77.8 FT%

12.0 points per game
4.5 rebounds per game
4.4 assists per game

1.2 steals per game
0.3 blocks per game
2.5 turnovers per game

Those are quite good numbers for a player his age, in a league of that level.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#167 » by Bob8 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:28 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
Of course that is some kind of high school age tournament. I assure you that no way in hell is that Brazil's top league. And that Ntilikina probably could not average even 1/3 of the numbers you posted in that league.


I said you can't judge anything on that footage and that Ntilikina could do anything he want on that kind of tournament as any other good prospect could. I never talked about Brazilian league.


OK, but what is your point in saying that? De Paula does not play in an under-18 league now. He plays in Brazil's first league. So yeah, there is no reason not to be able to compare the two.


Man gave was a footage to show as how good George is and to compare him with Ntilikina. I just said anybody can do that against that kind of opposition. I commented only what I saw on this video. A game where any prospect can score 40+ if he really wants. That's all, I don't know the guy.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#168 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:30 pm

Bob8 wrote:Man gave was a footage to show as how good George is and to compare him with Ntilikina. I just said anybody can do that against that kind of opposition. I commented only what I saw on this video. A game where any prospect can score 40 if he really wants. That's all, I don't know the guy.


I know, I'm saying it's not pertinent to the issue of comparing the two players. Both are playing in men's professional leagues, in first divisions. So no need to talk about what they did in high school tournaments.

Here is a recent clip of De Paula playing in the LSB (South American League), which is the secondary level men's pro league for South America in continental-wide competition, the league level after the highest level Americas League. So it's like South America's version of the EuroCup.



It's not hard to find footage in a men's league.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#169 » by Bob8 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:37 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
Bob8 wrote:Man gave was a footage to show as how good George is and to compare him with Ntilikina. I just said anybody can do that against that kind of opposition. I commented only what I saw on this video. A game where any prospect can score 40 if he really wants. That's all, I don't know the guy.


I know, I'm saying it's not pertinent to the issue of comparing the two players. Both are playing in men's professional leagues, in first divisions. So no need to talk about what they did in high school tournaments.


I did exactly that. He showed us the video and I said, with other words, you can't compare what George has done in some youth tournament to what Ntilikina is doing in French league. If we had on the table video where George is playing in Brazilian league my answer might be different, but we haven't. ;)
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#170 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:41 pm

Bob8 wrote:I did exactly that. He showed us the video and I said, with other words, you can't compare what George has done in some youth tournament to what Ntilikina is doing in French league. If we had on the table video where George is playing in Brazilian league my answer might be different, but we haven't. ;)


There is video in Youtube, it takes almost no time to find it. Just enter George Lucas de Paula or Georginho Lucas de Paula, in Youtube....should be pretty obvious.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#171 » by Bob8 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:44 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
I know, I'm saying it's not pertinent to the issue of comparing the two players. Both are playing in men's professional leagues, in first divisions. So no need to talk about what they did in high school tournaments.


I did exactly that. He showed us the video and I said, with other words, you can't compare what George has done in some youth tournament to what Ntilikina is doing in French league. If we had on the table video where George is playing in Brazilian league my answer might be different, but we haven't. ;)


There is video in Youtube, it takes almost not time to find it.


and he looks o.k. but I don't anything about the league, competition... and because of that, I can't gave any judgment.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#172 » by Mirotic12 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:48 pm

Bob8 wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
I did exactly that. He showed us the video and I said, with other words, you can't compare what George has done in some youth tournament to what Ntilikina is doing in French league. If we had on the table video where George is playing in Brazilian league my answer might be different, but we haven't. ;)


There is video in Youtube, it takes almost not time to find it.


and he looks o.k. but I don't anything about the league, competition... and because of that, I can't gave any judgment.


The league in Brazil is a decent league. Definitely better than weaker European leagues. It's probably better than even most European mid level leagues.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#173 » by Killboard » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:49 pm

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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#174 » by Grits n Gravy » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:50 pm

Bob8 wrote:
Grits n Gravy wrote:Does anyone know what the difference between Frank and George De Paula is? I understand Frank is playing in a more high profile league and is younger. I know very little of both of their games but both are physically very similar - are big 6'5/6'6, long and pretty athletic guards(Frank does seem more athletic) though ones projected as a top 10 pick while the other is a second rounder.



I don't like Frank to much, but my guess is Frank would have something like 40, 20, 15 in games we have seen George playing. You really have to take in big consideration where someone is playing. This is like slow motion, you can't get any conclusions from that video.

On a quick look it appears it is from the 2014 Nike global challenge featuring a U.S team roster including Malik Monk, Jalen Brunson, Luke Kennard, Deyonta Davis who GDP had 26-8-8 against and another US roster featuring D1 players like De'Aaron Fox(Who he had 34 against). Again I'm not promoting GDP, like I said I know very little about both guys except their physical tools are very intriguing and to ask some more draft savvy junkies who might be familiar with both if they know why they are perceived so differently. I don't even know why I posted the video though I'm a sucker for lefties.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#175 » by GimmeDat » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:58 am

I keep flip flopping on Frank. I love the length and defensive potential, and his skills are much more refined than someone like Exum, if we want to go with that comparison, but I'm really not sold on his ability to ever be a PG at the NBA level.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#176 » by doordoor123 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:03 am

GimmeDat wrote:I keep flip flopping on Frank. I love the length and defensive potential, and his skills are much more refined than someone like Exum, if we want to go with that comparison, but I'm really not sold on his ability to ever be a PG at the NBA level.


Okay now take that mind-set and throw it away. He's going to be great, I can tell. He's going to be a great point guard too. Might take two years, but I could see him surprising everyone in his first year. He's athletic enough to get minutes right away. His speed in itself makes him dangerous off of the pick and roll. He also sees the floor very well (though he needs to refine his passing). He has had flashes of great passing vision. And his jump shot release is beautiful (I expect his shots to fall a lot). I'm a huge fan. I would take him 5 overall.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#177 » by GimmeDat » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:18 am

doordoor123 wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:I keep flip flopping on Frank. I love the length and defensive potential, and his skills are much more refined than someone like Exum, if we want to go with that comparison, but I'm really not sold on his ability to ever be a PG at the NBA level.


Okay now take that mind-set and throw it away. He's going to be great, I can tell. He's going to be a great point guard too. Might take two years, but I could see him surprising everyone in his first year. He's athletic enough to get minutes right away. His speed in itself makes him dangerous off of the pick and roll. He also sees the floor very well (though he needs to refine his passing). He has had flashes of great passing vision. And his jump shot release is beautiful (I expect his shots to fall a lot). I'm a huge fan. I would take him 5 overall.


I've been a big fan through the year too - as you said, good feel for the game, makes the right pass, good shooter, good but not outstanding but has the physical attributes to make him dynamic, and has made awesome strides with his jumper.

I almost think his size works against him as a 'PG' though. As a 'lead guard' he can probably work, but being so big hurts his handle and his ability to probe the defense a bit, imo.

It could go both ways and I think I'd have to see him in a different setting, or at least his pre-draft workouts, to make much of an assessment. Sometimes I see the PG version of a Giannis prospect, sometimes I see a 3/D PG whose really more of a 2 guard.

Overall I'm still a fan, but based on that uncertainty I think his range is anywhere from 6-14. In my mock I think I had him at 8.
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#178 » by Dr Positivity » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:29 am

Grits n Gravy wrote:Does anyone know what the difference between Frank and George De Paula is? I understand Frank is playing in a more high profile league and is younger. I know very little of both of their games but both are physically very similar - are big 6'5/6'6, long and pretty athletic guards(Frank does seem more athletic) though ones projected as a top 10 pick while the other is a second rounder.


GDP is 20, turning 21 in a few months. Half of Frank's appeal is being 18
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#179 » by Grits n Gravy » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:37 am

Dr Positivity wrote:
Grits n Gravy wrote:Does anyone know what the difference between Frank and George De Paula is? I understand Frank is playing in a more high profile league and is younger. I know very little of both of their games but both are physically very similar - are big 6'5/6'6, long and pretty athletic guards(Frank does seem more athletic) though ones projected as a top 10 pick while the other is a second rounder.


GDP is 20, turning 21 in a few months. Half of Frank's appeal is being 18

I understand that and that age certainly is at play in evaluators minds but surely there must be a more significant factor if in reality Frank is considered top ten and GDP is considered late 2nd(which is not necessarily true at all, purely going off DX ratings/mocks)

p.s I always refer to Franks last name as nicotine-a :lol:
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Re: Frank Ntilikina 

Post#180 » by doordoor123 » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:50 am

Grits n Gravy wrote:
Dr Positivity wrote:
Grits n Gravy wrote:Does anyone know what the difference between Frank and George De Paula is? I understand Frank is playing in a more high profile league and is younger. I know very little of both of their games but both are physically very similar - are big 6'5/6'6, long and pretty athletic guards(Frank does seem more athletic) though ones projected as a top 10 pick while the other is a second rounder.


GDP is 20, turning 21 in a few months. Half of Frank's appeal is being 18

I understand that and that age certainly is at play in evaluators minds but surely there must be a more significant factor if in reality Frank is considered top ten and GDP is considered late 2nd(which is not necessarily true at all, purely going off DX ratings/mocks)

p.s I always refer to Franks last name as nicotine-a :lol:


George De Paula shouldn't be a second round pick. He should be taken after all the big young prospects. I have him going somewhere between 18-24. I think he should go before Dozier, Jawun Edwards, etc.

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