2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2

Cheatergriffin · Post #1421 » by **Cheatergriffin** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:54 am

Lonzo ball would absolutely fit with the 76ers current group he's long,wirey and athletic, not to mention in brett brown uptempo style offense he'd def fit in. Would easily be a top 5 entertaining team with the passing and ball movement, simmons, dario, ball would be fun as hell. Ben cant play primary ball handler the whole game.

For those saying his defense is bad, are u basing this off of one game? Has all the physical tools to be a good defender in the league. Not to mention his intangibles are probably a 9/10, say what u want about his free throw shooting, but brett and the shooting coaches do a tremendous job of helping players at the stripe.

If u want to say he hasnt show ability to run a half court offense, drive right, shoot going right, or the ability to run a pick and roll, fine and all are valid cricicisms, but the rest of what im seeing on this board right now is a joke. If we land a top 3 pick and fultz/jackson are gone u take ball without hesitation.

Fox would be a terrible fit along with dsjr. Honestly, fultz/jackson/ball/monk in that order after that BPA.

shawn_hemp · Post #1422 » by **shawn_hemp** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:56 am

I never thought Ball was a good defender

Unbreakable99 · Post #1423 » by **Unbreakable99** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:58 am

Read on Twitter

phiphan · Post #1424 » by **phiphan** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:03 am

shawn_hemp wrote:I never thought Ball was a good defender

He isn't. The effort is there but he crumples like a wet paper bag on screens.

Slizeezyc · Post #1425 » by **Slizeezyc** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:06 am

phiphan wrote:
shawn_hemp wrote:I never thought Ball was a good defender

He isn't. The effort is there but he crumples like a wet paper bad on screens.

He's got good team defense instincts and can get hands in lanes, but yeah, he's truly terrible in pick and roll defense most of the time. That being said, he's big enough where he can switch enough, and part of his issue is he just clearly has very few reps defending in pick and roll.

TheAntiTrump · Post #1426 » by **TheAntiTrump** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:07 am

Sixers2125 wrote:I also thought it was funny how Ball started limping around as soon as the game was out of question. Not a good look.

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Not funny, true. There are now confirmed reports that Ball strained his Groin right before the end of the 1st half. And it severaly limited him the entire 2nd half.

PLO · Post #1427 » by **PLO** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:12 am

I've said before here I reckon Ball is overrated but agree he's a good fit at the Sixers if Simmons is running the point

Sixers2125 · Post #1428 » by **Sixers2125** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:12 am

TheAntiTrump wrote:
Sixers2125 wrote:I also thought it was funny how Ball started limping around as soon as the game was out of question. Not a good look.

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Not funny, true. There are now confirmed reports that Ball strained his Groin right before the end of the 1st half. And it severaly limited him the entire 2nd half.

Sounds made up to me, why wasn't he limping the whole half then?

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Sixers2125 · Post #1429 » by **Sixers2125** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:16 am

Cheatergriffin wrote:Lonzo ball would absolutely fit with the 76ers current group he's long,wirey and athletic, not to mention in brett brown uptempo style offense he'd def fit in. Would easily be a top 5 entertaining team with the passing and ball movement, simmons, dario, ball would be fun as hell. Ben cant play primary ball handler the whole game.

For those saying his defense is bad, are u basing this off of one game? Has all the physical tools to be a good defender in the league. Not to mention his intangibles are probably a 9/10, say what u want about his free throw shooting, but brett and the shooting coaches do a tremendous job of helping players at the stripe.

If u want to say he hasnt show ability to run a half court offense, drive right, shoot going right, or the ability to run a pick and roll, fine and all are valid cricicisms, but the rest of what im seeing on this board right now is a joke. If we land a top 3 pick and fultz/jackson are gone u take ball without hesitation.

Fox would be a terrible fit along with dsjr. Honestly, fultz/jackson/ball/monk in that order after that BPA.

As much as I like Fox, you're right, he isn't a great fit with the sixers. The 3 spot would really suck with Fultz and Jackson gone. I'd probably take Tatum at 3 or try and trade down and draft Monk who I think is a perfect fit for us.

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Unbreakable99 · Post #1430 » by **Unbreakable99** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:20 am

Ball didn't have a good PAC 12 tournament. He did have a good NCAA tournament until tonight. Fox outplayed him pretty handily. I liked what I saw from Fox. Monk finally went off too. I liked what I saw form him too. Nice.

Negrodamus · Post #1431 » by **Negrodamus** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:33 am

I'm still not sold on the shot, but the passing is unlike I've ever seen. He could be real good for us, but I feel like he'd be great as THE guy on whatever team drafts him.

Slizeezyc · Post #1432 » by **Slizeezyc** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:02 am

Negrodamus wrote:I'm still not sold on the shot, but the passing is unlike I've ever seen. He could be real good for us, but I feel like he'd be great as THE guy on whatever team drafts him.

I still am perplexed why people want to force Ball to be this ball-dominant player. He hasn't shown he wants to dribble much or be "the guy" on a team by those standards. He moves it quick and just wants to be part of a team, which is why I almost worry about him going too high or to a team that wants him to be this alpha lead guard.

Negrodamus · Post #1433 » by **Negrodamus** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:07 am

Slizeezyc wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:I'm still not sold on the shot, but the passing is unlike I've ever seen. He could be real good for us, but I feel like he'd be great as THE guy on whatever team drafts him.

I still am perplexed why people want to force Ball to be this ball-dominant player. He hasn't shown he wants to dribble much or be "the guy" on a team by those standards. He moves it quick and just wants to be part of a team, which is why I almost worry about him going too high or to a team that wants him to be this alpha lead guard.

Because he's running the offense. Just because he's not playing hero ball like and Iverson doesn't mean he's not "the guy" on his team. Ever since he joined UCLA and started running the offense, they have become an offensive juggernaut. I wouldn't want him hammering the ball to find an open man. I prefer him making the easy open pass in half court offense and the spectacular pass in fast breaks.

Slizeezyc · Post #1434 » by **Slizeezyc** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:49 am

Negrodamus wrote:
Slizeezyc wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:I'm still not sold on the shot, but the passing is unlike I've ever seen. He could be real good for us, but I feel like he'd be great as THE guy on whatever team drafts him.

I still am perplexed why people want to force Ball to be this ball-dominant player. He hasn't shown he wants to dribble much or be "the guy" on a team by those standards. He moves it quick and just wants to be part of a team, which is why I almost worry about him going too high or to a team that wants him to be this alpha lead guard.

Because he's running the offense. Just because he's not playing hero ball like and Iverson doesn't mean he's not "the guy" on his team. Ever since he joined UCLA and started running the offense, they have become an offensive juggernaut. I wouldn't want him hammering the ball to find an open man. I prefer him making the easy open pass in half court offense and the spectacular pass in fast breaks.

Right, but, that's not exactly how lots of teams operate in the NBA with these sorts of lead guards. I'm not saying he can't be unique based on the competitiveness he has and sharing qualities he seems to pass on to those around him, but if he's your "main" playmaker, you're putting him in a situation where he'll be expected to have a higher usage, do more, etc. He doesn't want to be a Harden et al, but are there lots of low-usage "main" guys at the guard spot in the NBA?

Sixers work for him because of a Simmons. A Suns system from a couple years ago where they use multiple PGs probably works better for him etc.

And I'm not trying to put a ceiling on Ball either. Maybe he can be a high-usage guy that fits a more traditional mold in today's PG NBA, I'm just saying that hasn't been his style to this point.

LloydFree · Post #1435 » by **LloydFree** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:08 am

PhilasFinest wrote:DSJ reminds me of Steve Francis coming out of college.

I agree, a little like Steve Francis. I think DSj has better PG instincts than Steve Francis had commingl out of college though.

Sixers2125 · Post #1436 » by **Sixers2125** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:15 am

I think Ball would have been better if he came out 20 years ago. Just like the NBA has passed players like Okafor by, I think it's also passed guys like Ball by. I think Balls offensive game compares with Jason Kidd, but he isn't going to be nearly as good a defender as Kidd was though. As a guard these days you need to be able to take over games with your scoring, and if you are incapable of that then you must at least be a lock down defender. Without either of those traits you're destined for a career with a ceiling of being average.

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LloydFree · Post #1437 » by **LloydFree** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:33 am

eagereyez wrote:There are some people on this board that would be going nuts if Fultz had Ball's statline in this game.

Yup. There are a bunch of guys on this board who are box score scouts.

76ciology · Post #1438 » by **76ciology** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 11:46 am

Sixers2125 wrote:I think Ball would have been better if he came out 20 years ago. Just like the NBA has passed players like Okafor by, I think it's also passed guys like Ball by. I think Balls offensive game compares with Jason Kidd, but he isn't going to be nearly as good a defender as Kidd was though. As a guard these days you need to be able to take over games with your scoring, and if you are incapable of that then you must at least be a lock down defender. Without either of those traits you're destined for a career with a ceiling of being average.

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Actually Ball's game is more suited in today's team oriented game. UCLA also plays a very NBA like offense. Ball will be great when in a well spaced and fast paced offense. Which is the exact opposite of how Okafor plays on offense.

Individual scoring (devin booker or wiggins) and individual defense (tony allen or avery bradley) has lessen it's value. A team oriented game that involves spacing and passing on offense with deflections on D is what's valued nowadays (Roco is best example).

There's no wonder Lakers looks to be high on him.

Sixers2125 · Post #1439 » by **Sixers2125** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:15 pm

76ciology wrote:
Sixers2125 wrote:I think Ball would have been better if he came out 20 years ago. Just like the NBA has passed players like Okafor by, I think it's also passed guys like Ball by. I think Balls offensive game compares with Jason Kidd, but he isn't going to be nearly as good a defender as Kidd was though. As a guard these days you need to be able to take over games with your scoring, and if you are incapable of that then you must at least be a lock down defender. Without either of those traits you're destined for a career with a ceiling of being average.

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Actually Ball's game is more suited in today's team oriented game. UCLA also plays a very NBA like offense. Ball will be great when in a well spaced and fast paced offense. Which is the exact opposite of how Okafor plays on offense.

Individual scoring (devin booker or wiggins) and individual defense (tony allen or avery bradley) has lessen it's value. A team oriented game that involves spacing and passing on offense with deflections on D is what's valued nowadays (Roco is best example).

There's no wonder Lakers looks to be high on him.

Yeahhhh.... mentioning avery Bradley as a one way defensive player just makes you look stupid.

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Sixers2125 · Post #1440 » by **Sixers2125** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:16 pm

76ciology wrote:
Sixers2125 wrote:I think Ball would have been better if he came out 20 years ago. Just like the NBA has passed players like Okafor by, I think it's also passed guys like Ball by. I think Balls offensive game compares with Jason Kidd, but he isn't going to be nearly as good a defender as Kidd was though. As a guard these days you need to be able to take over games with your scoring, and if you are incapable of that then you must at least be a lock down defender. Without either of those traits you're destined for a career with a ceiling of being average.

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Actually Ball's game is more suited in today's team oriented game. UCLA also plays a very NBA like offense. Ball will be great when in a well spaced and fast paced offense. Which is the exact opposite of how Okafor plays on offense.

Individual scoring (devin booker or wiggins) and individual defense (tony allen or avery bradley) has lessen it's value. A team oriented game that involves spacing and passing on offense with deflections on D is what's valued nowadays (Roco is best example).

There's no wonder Lakers looks to be high on him.

Name one good player that plays the style Ball does in the nba today.

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