College basketball and 2017 draft - One more poll after last game

starbosa10 · Post #1581 » by **starbosa10** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:17 am

I want JJ

oddity · Post #1582 » by **oddity** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:48 am

Just to be clear, this wasn't just a 'bad game' for Lonzo. This was more than a simple personal performance. UCLA and Lonzo just got completely exposed, and every point that Ball fans were yelling all season got completely destroyed in one fell swoop.

Firstly is the big hooplah over UCLA's offense. UCLA clearly had an impressive offensive season, but they really didn't play much against teams that could match their blistering pace. I was really curious as to see how they would play against a team as fast as them, and through two games against Kentucky they got demolished. What I saw was a bunch of 'baby's first motion offense' plays, often with simple pindowns for a contested 3 from the wing. Against lesser teams this was effective, as UCLA had the talent to pull it off, but Kentucky was able to match the bruins in athleticism and coaching, leading to UCLA's shot lagging behind its opponent's through most of the game. Kentucky's better defense allowed them to control the pace of the game, and the Bruins' highly touted speed grinded to a halt

Then we get to the matchup itself, and it ain't pretty for Ball. The media is already trying to manufacture a story out of thin air, telling you that this is a "personal grudge" between the UK guards and Lonzo, but the reality is far more cruel for our young Bruin. The truth is that Lonzo. Cannot. Guard. NBA. Point Guards. Period. For the second time now, Lonzo gave Fox access to the rim nearly at will, to the point where UCLA quickly tried putting Hamilton on him out of desperation. While Fox is a gifted athlete, there are at least 8 or 9 guys in the NBA at the 1 that can match/outpace him, and that means trouble for Lonzo, especially in a playoff situation, where every team seems to have an explosive PG. Fox coasted to a 39 point performance, while Ball struggled to get up decent shots and never developed a rhythm - imagine how much worse that will be against Russel Westbrook.

Hilariously, people are going to deflect the blame for this loss on Lonzo's team, even though it was Lonzo's inability to match up with his defensive assignment that forced his team to play mismatched all game. Not only that, but UCLA's best performer on the night was TJ Leaf - not Ball, and it was Isaac Hamilton who kept them at least somewhat in the game towards the final 5 minutes. Lonzo had only 10 pts on 40% from the field (17% from 3), and while he had 8 assists it came with 4 turnovers.

With all of this being said, the biggest blow to Lonzo's draft stock tonight came from his exposed inability to create offense at an elite level. Lonzo was passive, rarely taking shots for himself outside of the contested 3 and layup. His lack of a mid-range game was showing tonight, especially during the several situations where Lonzo passed on what would've been open mid range pull-ups. He certainly has a couple of nifty moves getting to and finishing at the basket, but his ineptitude at shooting anywhere between the arc and paint has a largely negative impact on his game.

I still think that Lonzo is a great prospect with tons of strengths, but those who think that his weaknesses might just go away at some point are in for a truly unruly awakening. The biggest hurdle is finding a backcourt partner who can guard athletic 1's while Lonzo guards the 2, but that already makes his skillset limited to the right team at the right time. His midrange game is nonexistent, which will prevent him from being a high level scorer at the next level. Still, there are teams that are prepared to throw highly coveted top 5 picks at Ball, expecting him to totally change a franchise. Word of advice to these people: DO NOT DO THIS. Lonzo is talented, but far more risky than the gawking, befuddled mainstream sports media will have you think. And this is just talking basketball. Let's not even begin on the dude's dumpster-fire of a father...

kennydorglas · Post #1583 » by **kennydorglas** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:53 am

WOW FLORIDA

Sunsss · Post #1584 » by **Sunsss** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:55 am

Why were these guys playing a game at almost 1am? Can't they schedule it any better?

sleepyvato · Post #1585 » by **sleepyvato** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:55 am

I didn't watch the UCLA game, was Ball really that bad today?

DirtyDez · Post #1586 » by **DirtyDez** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:09 am

Gawd I hate Wisconsin. Good job Florida.

oddity · Post #1587 » by **oddity** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:13 am

sleepyvato wrote:I didn't watch the UCLA game, was Ball really that bad today?

Played well getting to the rim during the first few minutes of the game, then fell off a cliff as Fox began scoring in bunches. In all honesty he wasn't putrid, but he was a net negative on his team, which was depending on its star to rise to the occasion. In the end, it wasn't too off from a normal game, but it was rather the weaknesses in his normal game which were highlighted by Fox and UK. I reckon if you saw an above-average game from Ball UCLA would still have lost, because his game just isn't as complete as Skip Brainless and co. would like you to believe. A few extra 28 ft 3s wouldn't do anything to solve UCLA's struggles to put the ball on the deck and drive to the basket, and on his best day Ball still couldn't guard Fox.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #1588 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:26 am

oddity wrote:Just to be clear, this wasn't just a 'bad game' for Lonzo. This was more than a simple personal performance. UCLA and Lonzo just got completely exposed, and every point that Ball fans were yelling all season got completely destroyed in one fell swoop.

Firstly is the big hooplah over UCLA's offense. UCLA clearly had an impressive offensive season, but they really didn't play much against teams that could match their blistering pace. I was really curious as to see how they would play against a team as fast as them, and through two games against Kentucky they got demolished. What I saw was a bunch of 'baby's first motion offense' plays, often with simple pindowns for a contested 3 from the wing. Against lesser teams this was effective, as UCLA had the talent to pull it off, but Kentucky was able to match the bruins in athleticism and coaching, leading to UCLA's shot lagging behind its opponent's through most of the game. Kentucky's better defense allowed them to control the pace of the game, and the Bruins' highly touted speed grinded to a halt

Then we get to the matchup itself, and it ain't pretty for Ball. The media is already trying to manufacture a story out of thin air, telling you that this is a "personal grudge" between the UK guards and Lonzo, but the reality is far more cruel for our young Bruin. The truth is that Lonzo. Cannot. Guard. NBA. Point Guards. Period. For the second time now, Lonzo gave Fox access to the rim nearly at will, to the point where UCLA quickly tried putting Hamilton on him out of desperation. While Fox is a gifted athlete, there are at least 8 or 9 guys in the NBA at the 1 that can match/outpace him, and that means trouble for Lonzo, especially in a playoff situation, where every team seems to have an explosive PG. Fox coasted to a 39 point performance, while Ball struggled to get up decent shots and never developed a rhythm - imagine how much worse that will be against Russel Westbrook.

Hilariously, people are going to deflect the blame for this loss on Lonzo's team, even though it was Lonzo's inability to match up with his defensive assignment that forced his team to play mismatched all game. Not only that, but UCLA's best performer on the night was TJ Leaf - not Ball, and it was Isaac Hamilton who kept them at least somewhat in the game towards the final 5 minutes. Lonzo had only 10 pts on 40% from the field (17% from 3), and while he had 8 assists it came with 4 turnovers.

With all of this being said, the biggest blow to Lonzo's draft stock tonight came from his exposed inability to create offense at an elite level. Lonzo was passive, rarely taking shots for himself outside of the contested 3 and layup. His lack of a mid-range game was showing tonight, especially during the several situations where Lonzo passed on what would've been open mid range pull-ups. He certainly has a couple of nifty moves getting to and finishing at the basket, but his ineptitude at shooting anywhere between the arc and paint has a largely negative impact on his game.

I still think that Lonzo is a great prospect with tons of strengths, but those who think that his weaknesses might just go away at some point are in for a truly unruly awakening. The biggest hurdle is finding a backcourt partner who can guard athletic 1's while Lonzo guards the 2, but that already makes his skillset limited to the right team at the right time. His midrange game is nonexistent, which will prevent him from being a high level scorer at the next level. Still, there are teams that are prepared to throw highly coveted top 5 picks at Ball, expecting him to totally change a franchise. Word of advice to these people: DO NOT DO THIS. Lonzo is talented, but far more risky than the gawking, befuddled mainstream sports media will have you think. And this is just talking basketball. Let's not even begin on the dude's dumpster-fire of a father...

I'm not as down on ball as you but you're 100% right that getting his **** stomped by an nba athlete like fox is a legit concern.

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oddity · Post #1589 » by **oddity** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:40 am

WeekapaugGroove wrote:I'm not as down on ball as you but you're 100% right that getting his **** stomped by an nba athlete like fox is a legit concern.

I hope to clear the air that I'm not totally down on him and still have him at 6 on my big board. But wow this game waved soooo many red flags...

LukasBMW · Post #1590 » by **LukasBMW** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:42 am

Fox is FAST and he can finish. Wow.

WeekapaugGroove · Post #1591 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:40 am

LukasBMW wrote:Fox is FAST and he can finish. Wow.

Yeah I hate to overrate one game but dude is impressive. Gives off a john wall vibe.

If the suns fall to 5 in the lotto id be fine taking fox.

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Mulhollanddrive · Post #1592 » by **Mulhollanddrive** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:42 am

Only 1 other person voted Fox before this game!

He still is limited by his shooting and facilitating skills, but I think there's enough flashes in stretches to suggest he can get that to passable (around 34% 3pt and 6 apg), and let his 2nd best speed in the entire NBA get him whatever shots he wants.

The only 7 players I can see us taking with our pick (my personal rankings order): Fultz, Tatum, Jackson, Fox, Smith, Ball, Isaac.

Jsbath · Post #1593 » by **Jsbath** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:06 am

I like jj for this draft and with next pick of the 2018 draft select luka doncic. Im from Spain and I see this guy in a lot of match and he will convert in a all star player. Hes better than ball or fultz now

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

Bogyo · Post #1594 » by **Bogyo** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:12 am

I just hope Lakers take Ball with the 2nd spot and we can take JJ with the 3rd, so we don't have to decide wether to take him there or not. If I were the GM I'd pass without much hesitation, especially after tonights dumpsterfire performance. It seems that all the concerns about his game (only works well against inferior competition), shot (broken, will not be able to get it off in time in the big boys game), defense (non-existant), athletic abilities (average at best) are spot on, and it will only get worse in the NBA with better players, better defensive schemes, better athletes against him. Still curious about his workouts, his quickness and agility drills, but if numbers aren't great there, he might not even be top10 talent for me.
He could still be a good backup guard, but that's about it.

(On a sidenote, I'd love to see his dad fall on his face, I hate guys like him with a passion. Clueless, loudmouth, agressive, all-round-grade-A-a**hole. These guys make the world worse a place around themselves. But at least one of his sons will be a top10 nba pick, and will most likely secure his 2nd contract, which will make him and his family a multiple millionaire, so he won't stop talking until he is 6feet under.)

kennydorglas · Post #1595 » by **kennydorglas** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:18 pm

Yep, Lonzo is okay too
And also won his only two underdog games (UK/Arizona)

Spoiler:

oddity · Post #1596 » by **oddity** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:07 pm

Jsbath wrote:I like jj for this draft and with next pick of the 2018 draft select luka doncic. Im from Spain and I see this guy in a lot of match and he will convert in a all star player. Hes better than ball or fultz now

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

Luka Doncic is certainly an intriguing prospect. I've been impressed with him for a few years, and it's mindblowing to see him already average 9/4/4 in tournament play as a 17-turning-18 year old. You're lucky to watch him on a nightly basis!

Post #1597 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:32 pm

Archie Miller is making the leap from Dayton to Indiana to become the Hoosiers' new basketball coach, it was announced Saturday.

"I am honored to be the head coach at Indiana University," Miller said Saturday in a statement. "IU is one of the greatest basketball programs and academic institutions in the country, and I cannot wait to get started. With peerless fan support, outstanding facilities and tradition, a beautiful campus, and located in one of the most fertile recruiting areas in the country, IU is a dream destination for me and my family."

Sources told ESPN that Miller has agreed to a seven-year deal to replace Tom Crean, who was dismissed by the Hoosiers on March 16 after nine seasons. A press conference will be held Monday in Bloomington, Indiana.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19001709/archie-miller-coach-indiana-hoosiers

sunsbg · Post #1598 » by **sunsbg** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:36 pm

oddity wrote:
Jsbath wrote:I like jj for this draft and with next pick of the 2018 draft select luka doncic. Im from Spain and I see this guy in a lot of match and he will convert in a all star player. Hes better than ball or fultz now

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk

Luka Doncic is certainly an intriguing prospect. I've been impressed with him for a few years, and it's mindblowing to see him already average 9/4/4 in tournament play as a 17-turning-18 year old. You're lucky to watch him on a nightly basis!

Doncic is currently projected as 1st pick in 2018 draft by DraftExpress, so the Suns should be as bad as this year to have a real chance to draft him. He is truly a versatile player - SF's size, SG's shooting, PG skills, plays good D. He's basically a smaller version of Dario Saric, and I expect he will have a similar effect from day 1 as he's already an integral part of one of the best teams in Euroleague.

DirtyDez · Post #1599 » by **DirtyDez** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:48 pm

bwgood77 wrote:
Archie Miller is making the leap from Dayton to Indiana to become the Hoosiers' new basketball coach, it was announced Saturday.

"I am honored to be the head coach at Indiana University," Miller said Saturday in a statement. "IU is one of the greatest basketball programs and academic institutions in the country, and I cannot wait to get started. With peerless fan support, outstanding facilities and tradition, a beautiful campus, and located in one of the most fertile recruiting areas in the country, IU is a dream destination for me and my family."

Sources told ESPN that Miller has agreed to a seven-year deal to replace Tom Crean, who was dismissed by the Hoosiers on March 16 after nine seasons. A press conference will be held Monday in Bloomington, Indiana.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19001709/archie-miller-coach-indiana-hoosiers

Good hire for the Hoosiers. Indiana is an elite job with the right coach.

Sounds like Trier is 50/50 depending on receiving a first rd grade. Still hearing Kobi made up his mind to go pro before stepping foot on campus even though he's nowhere close to being ready. We will see.

Post #1600 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:53 pm

DirtyDez wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Archie Miller is making the leap from Dayton to Indiana to become the Hoosiers' new basketball coach, it was announced Saturday.

"I am honored to be the head coach at Indiana University," Miller said Saturday in a statement. "IU is one of the greatest basketball programs and academic institutions in the country, and I cannot wait to get started. With peerless fan support, outstanding facilities and tradition, a beautiful campus, and located in one of the most fertile recruiting areas in the country, IU is a dream destination for me and my family."

Sources told ESPN that Miller has agreed to a seven-year deal to replace Tom Crean, who was dismissed by the Hoosiers on March 16 after nine seasons. A press conference will be held Monday in Bloomington, Indiana.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19001709/archie-miller-coach-indiana-hoosiers

Good hire for the Hoosiers. Indiana is an elite job with the right coach.

Sounds like Trier is 50/50 depending on receiving a first rd grade. Still hearing Kobi made up his mind to go pro before stepping foot on campus even though he's nowhere close to being ready. We will see.

I think it's a great hire as well.

So what will our lineup look like next year under both circumstances? I feel like come tourney time, the more experienced juniors and seniors who can hit shots and play some crunch time helps.

But of course they easily could have won that game if everyone wasn't scared to take that last shot.

If we have the 1st or 2nd pick, and take Ball, how will you feel