2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2

[TheAntiTrump]

Yea, but did anyone watch Sindarius Thornwell thrash a team full of NBA prospects? Once again, age is the only reason people are low on him. He's carrying this team. I'd probably take him over Ball and Monk because he actually plays defense. The only thing going for Ball at this point is his ridiculously elite court vision.

I like him where he's at in that he has a lot of the Buddy Hield thing going on (even more so) where he didn't stand out until he was the "man among boys" in terms of being a senior. This is his only standout season etc. which is always a red flag with four-year players on some level. His ability to make plays was about the only thing that stood out before this season, and that he's obviously a better defender than a Hield (nice wingspan too).

I was probably the first one here to mention Thornwell, and I like him too as a 2nd rounder. I mean why not since we have 4 of them. But you are also right that this season has really only been his one truly good season. That is why he will likely be a 2nd rounder. Another of the potential 2nd rounders that I kinda like...even though he did have a bad NCAA tournament is the Notre Dame kid...Beachem. He reminds me a lot of another " Rodney Hood " like player. Only Beachem is way way more athletic then Hood is.

[SelfishPlayer]

De'aaron Fox is the PG that I said that he was months ago. He's special and has outperformed Ball twice.

[Negrodamus]

Yea, but did anyone watch Sindarius Thornwell thrash a team full of NBA prospects? Once again, age is the only reason people are low on him. He's carrying this team. I'd probably take him over Ball and Monk because he actually plays defense. The only thing going for Ball at this point is his ridiculously elite court vision.

I like him where he's at in that he has a lot of the Buddy Hield thing going on (even more so) where he didn't stand out until he was the "man among boys" in terms of being a senior. This is his only standout season etc. which is always a red flag with four-year players on some level. His ability to make plays was about the only thing that stood out before this season, and that he's obviously a better defender than a Hield (nice wingspan too).

Wasn't Buddy Hield the Big 12 POY his junior year? I don't think he appeared out of no where, much like Sindarius didn't. If you've just been paying attention to Thornwell's offense, then yes, this is his first standout year. He's always been a great defender on a developing team.

[Sixers2125]

Actually Ball's game is more suited in today's team oriented game. UCLA also plays a very NBA like offense. Ball will be great when in a well spaced and fast paced offense. Which is the exact opposite of how Okafor plays on offense.

Individual scoring (devin booker or wiggins) and individual defense (tony allen or avery bradley) has lessen it's value. A team oriented game that involves spacing and passing on offense with deflections on D is what's valued nowadays (Roco is best example).

There's no wonder Lakers looks to be high on him.

Name one good player that plays the style Ball does in the nba today.

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Rubio with a jumper and athleticism? Taller version of Mike Conley? Better PG but worse D player version of George Hill?


Hard to project the players with too many moving variables. I just think that Ball's very good deflection, allaround, passing and 3pts should translate well in the NBA. Not to mention he has very good size and athleticism for NBA level PG.

You watched our game against the Bulls right? Bulls had Rondo and MCW on D against our PGs. Seems like Tj and Sergio tore down their D at will.

Point is, nobody cares about individual perimeter D nowadays while the spacing, pace and screens can easily gets you separation to get your shots off or allows you to collapse the opponents D.

If TJ can shoot, athletic and tall he may be special. Well, I just described Ball.

Rubio is actually a good comp. I think at this stage rubio has a better jumper though. Conley and Hill have no similarities at all besides playing the same position.

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[Slizeezyc]

Yea, but did anyone watch Sindarius Thornwell thrash a team full of NBA prospects? Once again, age is the only reason people are low on him. He's carrying this team. I'd probably take him over Ball and Monk because he actually plays defense. The only thing going for Ball at this point is his ridiculously elite court vision.

I like him where he's at in that he has a lot of the Buddy Hield thing going on (even more so) where he didn't stand out until he was the "man among boys" in terms of being a senior. This is his only standout season etc. which is always a red flag with four-year players on some level. His ability to make plays was about the only thing that stood out before this season, and that he's obviously a better defender than a Hield (nice wingspan too).

Wasn't Buddy Hield the Big 12 POY his junior year? I don't think he appeared out of no where, much like Sindarius didn't. If you've just been paying attention to Thornwell's offense, then yes, this is his first standout year. He's always been a great defender on a developing team.

Hield won Big 12 PotY his junior year, which was why I said "even more so than Hield" with him. But the point was that Hield shot up because he was out of his mind as a Senior, way more than any year prior -- his junior to senior year stats don't touch each other because he finally was sticking 3s at a high rate his final season.

Defense or not, it's his first standout year as a total player. It's not a hot take in any regard to say that. A 6-5 wing who wasn't shooting well wasn't going to be some sought after player. Josh Richardson might be another comparable situation for Thornwell, though I think Richardson was a little easier to see coming because he was progressing every year in college. Thornwell to Buddy as a comp was because it was such a massive uptick from junior to senior year on offense that it's a little harder to gauge the likely outcome.

Again, I'm on board with him as a prospect, just trying to point out why a senior doing this isn't so easy to project moving forward and why I sort of rail against the "safety" of four-year players.

[the_process]

Yea, but did anyone watch Sindarius Thornwell thrash a team full of NBA prospects? Once again, age is the only reason people are low on him. He's carrying this team. I'd probably take him over Ball and Monk because he actually plays defense. The only thing going for Ball at this point is his ridiculously elite court vision.

I like him where he's at in that he has a lot of the Buddy Hield thing going on (even more so) where he didn't stand out until he was the "man among boys" in terms of being a senior. This is his only standout season etc. which is always a red flag with four-year players on some level. His ability to make plays was about the only thing that stood out before this season, and that he's obviously a better defender than a Hield (nice wingspan too).

I would agree with you, but Hield was a lottery pick drafted for his shooting. Thornwell will be a late 1st round pick drafted for his defense.

[Sixers2125]

I remember Rubio was talked about just like Ball leading up to his draft too.

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[SparksFly87]

Simmons has comparisons to Lebron
While Fultz comparable of Wade.


I think we should go all 7in on Fultz.

[freshie2]

I remember Rubio was talked about just like Ball leading up to his draft too.

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Completely different discussions. Rubio was almost "who will roll the dice", while Ball is discussed as a top overall pick.

[Sixers2125]

I remember Rubio was talked about just like Ball leading up to his draft too.

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Completely different discussions. Rubio was almost "who will roll the dice", while Ball is discussed as a top overall pick.

That was only because people didn't know when he would come over from Europe. If he was gonna play that next season he would have been a possibility to go #1 along with Blake Griffin, and that was a stronger draft than this one.

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[Mik317]

We need to seriously start sitting dario and roco. If we can get the 4th/5th best odds we have the 2nd best odds @ 1. If they were smarr both would get a hefty envelope behind closed doors and told see u over the summer, Roco will talk an extension, Dario congrats on roy.

Dont screw this up for meaningless wins. The process is almost colangelo-proof.

When you have been a Bad team the past 3 years...there is no such thing as a " Meaningless " win. ALL WINS are Important. I mean I say go all out to win. Yes, give some time to young guys that have not yet got minutes, like TLC, Maybe Long and more Holmes. But you still go out and try to win.

Uhm they are meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Honestly i could care less if we win these games right now. In ten-20 years no one is going to remember last nights win. They will remember who we took in this draft, some will remember how we hypothetically screwed up winning meaningless games if we fall in the lottery and pick say 6-8.

Would u rather increase your odds by losing to get the 4th and the 5th pick raising yours odds to 2nd highest for the 1st pick? Potentially giving yourself the best odds to get which ever prospect your organization likes most.

OR would u rather win games on the backs of sergio rodriguez shawn long stauskas who lets be real have no future here. Yeah i get it dario/roco/tj/richaun are all apart of the future and no one wants them to play bad, but at the same time start giving guys specifically those 4 more rest more frequent to help your odds. Other teams are blatantly doing it and have been against us sitting their players for years.

Seriously, what is the point of winning games right now when we cant make the playoffs? What is the huge need to watch guys who i am more than impressed with this year keep winning games that do nothing but hurt our chances at gaining a superstar and yet at the same time cant make the playoffs.

We are literally tied W/L with like 3-4 other teams right now, you think our pick cant drop to 8-9? Let me know how happy you are about TLC or Longs development when your drafting 7-8th BIG DIFFERENCE from 1-4.

And bro the only person who was here from the start of the tank was nerlens, please dont give me the it means alot for this team stuff bc they have sucked for 3-4 years prior. Majority of these guys dont care about that. Do u think Ben simmons cares how the sixers did in 2014?

I love that brett has the guys playing with heart, but cmon we know who the keepers are and whos fighting to showcase themselves for other teams next year.

STOP WINNING GAMES.


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you cannot force players to not play hard. Its stupid at this point for people to ask for that. Yeah it would be nice to get a higher draft pick...but considering the only way to make sure that happens at this point is to throw games, I think not. The league already are at our necks for tanking prior if we openly did that ****, people would easily catch on and we'd probably be punished. The previous tank could not have been punished because dudes where playing their hardest and was garbage. That is no longer the case and that's that. You cannot sit Saric when he is not hurt. It is not the same as Bledsoe or Deng. Neither of those guys matter to their teams and more than likely will be moved which makes sitting them a good thing (Bledsoe has an injury history and actually has a bum knee currently)...hell Deng is kinda washed and playing him would lead to more wins anyway. sorry but the only way left to tank is to pull healthy players who are apart of your core going forward in the name of seeing what Shawn Long and Justin Anderson has? That would be such a bad look and we'd deserve all of the **** we'd get. The Lakers and Suns were losing games with Bledsoe, Deng, and Mozgov respectively...that is not the case here.

yall gotta let that tank at all costs mentality go. The pre-Hinkie Sixers were bad because we were winning off the backs of a 308 year old Andre Miller , here we are winning off the backs of dudes who will be around at the very least next year and can be apart of a core (last night withstanding...and even then Saric dropped 32 and 10). Things are moving forward. Because if you call for tanking when its happening with guys that matter what is stopping you from going "oh shut down Embiid and Simmons" so we can get ONE more prospect again. Eventually you gotta make some progress guy. Falling a few picks because Saric and Covington are having great games is not the worst fate one can have....if those two lead to wins then we are better off than if they did not, no? Besides with the Lakers pick, the pick swap and our other assets, sans perhaps getting to 1 or 2, I think we have the tools to go get most guys we want if they aren't available. This is not some zero sum game here, hell last year was like the second or third time there was no movement in the lottery. Yes the lottery exists...... relax.

[Sixerscan]

I remember Rubio was talked about just like Ball leading up to his draft too.

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Completely different discussions. Rubio was almost "who will roll the dice", while Ball is discussed as a top overall pick.

That was only because people didn't know when he would come over from Europe. If he was gonna play that next season he would have been a possibility to go #1 along with Blake Griffin, and that was a stronger draft than this one.

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Probably true in retrospect but at the time that draft wasn't nearly as highly regarded as this one currently is. The Wizards traded the #5 pick (which became Rubio) a week before the draft for Mike Miller, Randy Foye and some cap relief. Even factoring in the heightened value of draft picks in general, the idea of someone doing that this year would be ridiculous.

Anyway, Rubio is a great example of how a promising prospect can tank if they never learn to shoot. If Rubio was a 40% 3 point shooter he would probably be an all star. He's a great facilitator and consistently grades as one of the best defensive point guards in the league.

Unfortunately, instead of being a good shooter at times he's been the worst shooter in NBA history by some measures.

A lot of Ball's projection comes down to whether you think that shot is going to translate. If you don't, then his upside is going to be incredibly limited.

[Negrodamus]

I like him where he's at in that he has a lot of the Buddy Hield thing going on (even more so) where he didn't stand out until he was the "man among boys" in terms of being a senior. This is his only standout season etc. which is always a red flag with four-year players on some level. His ability to make plays was about the only thing that stood out before this season, and that he's obviously a better defender than a Hield (nice wingspan too).

Wasn't Buddy Hield the Big 12 POY his junior year? I don't think he appeared out of no where, much like Sindarius didn't. If you've just been paying attention to Thornwell's offense, then yes, this is his first standout year. He's always been a great defender on a developing team.

Again, I'm on board with him as a prospect, just trying to point out why a senior doing this isn't so easy to project moving forward and why I sort of rail against the "safety" of four-year players.

I don't think there is a "safety" in four year players, that's why teams get burned by passing them over in the draft.

But if you look at what he is and remove age from the equation, I'm willing to eat crow, but I think he'll be one of the top 10 (maybe even top 5) players to come out of this upcoming draft.

[Arsenal]

I'm all about packaging some of our 2nd rounders to move up for Thornwell. You can't have enough potential 3&D wings in the league these days.

Taking him in the top 10 would be foolish though.

By the way he's up to #33 in DX's latest mock.

[Negrodamus]

I'm all about packaging some of our 2nd rounders to move up for Thornwell. You can't have enough potential 3&D wings in the league these days.

Taking him in the top 10 would be foolish though.

By the way he's up to #33 in DX's latest mock.

I mean, we're using draft sites to dictate what's foolish or not. But if you asked many before the 2013 draft, they'd say it'd be foolish to take CJ McCollum over Anthony Bennett.

[Arsenal]

I'm all about packaging some of our 2nd rounders to move up for Thornwell. You can't have enough potential 3&D wings in the league these days.

Taking him in the top 10 would be foolish though.

By the way he's up to #33 in DX's latest mock.

I mean, we're using draft sites to dictate what's foolish or not. But if you asked many before the 2013 draft, they'd say it'd be foolish to take CJ McCollum over Anthony Bennett.

Those draft sites are far more plugged in to what NBA GM's are thinking than you or I. So that's the best way to get a general sense of how prospects are valued and where it makes sense to draft them.

And it makes sense. Thornwell has been awesome this year. However this is his age 22 senior year. When he was 19 and 20 he was nothing special. He was better at 21. Then the massive leap at 22. Age to excellence matters in valuing prospects.

His 2PT% is a major red flag. .417 over his career is pretty poor, and good evidence that he can't get to the rim and finish. If he can't get bailed out with foul calls, then his sole value on offense becomes 3PT shooting, which he's also been mediocre at throughout his career until the big uptick this year.

That's no sure bet though. If he can't space the floor, then he has no value aside from coming off a bench for sporadic defensive matchups.

So in a pretty strong draft like this, it makes sense that he's a late 1st or early 2nd rounder.

[Arsenal]

I'm all about packaging some of our 2nd rounders to move up for Thornwell. You can't have enough potential 3&D wings in the league these days.

Taking him in the top 10 would be foolish though.

By the way he's up to #33 in DX's latest mock.

I mean, we're using draft sites to dictate what's foolish or not. But if you asked many before the 2013 draft, they'd say it'd be foolish to take CJ McCollum over Anthony Bennett.

Also, both DX and NBADraft.net's final 2013 mock drafts had C.J. McCollum going ahead of Anthony Bennett. Part of the reason the Bennett selection was so surprising (before we actually knew he was a bust) was that no one had him mocked anywhere near #1 overall.

[the_process]

When you have been a Bad team the past 3 years...there is no such thing as a " Meaningless " win. ALL WINS are Important. I mean I say go all out to win. Yes, give some time to young guys that have not yet got minutes, like TLC, Maybe Long and more Holmes. But you still go out and try to win.

Uhm they are meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Honestly i could care less if we win these games right now. In ten-20 years no one is going to remember last nights win. They will remember who we took in this draft, some will remember how we hypothetically screwed up winning meaningless games if we fall in the lottery and pick say 6-8.

Would u rather increase your odds by losing to get the 4th and the 5th pick raising yours odds to 2nd highest for the 1st pick? Potentially giving yourself the best odds to get which ever prospect your organization likes most.

OR would u rather win games on the backs of sergio rodriguez shawn long stauskas who lets be real have no future here. Yeah i get it dario/roco/tj/richaun are all apart of the future and no one wants them to play bad, but at the same time start giving guys specifically those 4 more rest more frequent to help your odds. Other teams are blatantly doing it and have been against us sitting their players for years.

Seriously, what is the point of winning games right now when we cant make the playoffs? What is the huge need to watch guys who i am more than impressed with this year keep winning games that do nothing but hurt our chances at gaining a superstar and yet at the same time cant make the playoffs.

We are literally tied W/L with like 3-4 other teams right now, you think our pick cant drop to 8-9? Let me know how happy you are about TLC or Longs development when your drafting 7-8th BIG DIFFERENCE from 1-4.

And bro the only person who was here from the start of the tank was nerlens, please dont give me the it means alot for this team stuff bc they have sucked for 3-4 years prior. Majority of these guys dont care about that. Do u think Ben simmons cares how the sixers did in 2014?

I love that brett has the guys playing with heart, but cmon we know who the keepers are and whos fighting to showcase themselves for other teams next year.

STOP WINNING GAMES.


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you cannot force players to not play hard. Its stupid at this point for people to ask for that. Yeah it would be nice to get a higher draft pick...but considering the only way to make sure that happens at this point is to throw games, I think not. The league already are at our necks for tanking prior if we openly did that ****, people would easily catch on and we'd probably be punished. The previous tank could not have been punished because dudes where playing their hardest and was garbage. That is no longer the case and that's that. You cannot sit Saric when he is not hurt. It is not the same as Bledsoe or Deng. Neither of those guys matter to their teams and more than likely will be moved which makes sitting them a good thing (Bledsoe has an injury history and actually has a bum knee currently)...hell Deng is kinda washed and playing him would lead to more wins anyway. sorry but the only way left to tank is to pull healthy players who are apart of your core going forward in the name of seeing what Shawn Long and Justin Anderson has? That would be such a bad look and we'd deserve all of the **** we'd get. The Lakers and Suns were losing games with Bledsoe, Deng, and Mozgov respectively...that is not the case here.

yall gotta let that tank at all costs mentality go. The pre-Hinkie Sixers were bad because we were winning off the backs of a 308 year old Andre Miller , here we are winning off the backs of dudes who will be around at the very least next year and can be apart of a core (last night withstanding...and even then Saric dropped 32 and 10). Things are moving forward. Because if you call for tanking when its happening with guys that matter what is stopping you from going "oh shut down Embiid and Simmons" so we can get ONE more prospect again. Eventually you gotta make some progress guy. Falling a few picks because Saric and Covington are having great games is not the worst fate one can have....if those two lead to wins then we are better off than if they did not, no? Besides with the Lakers pick, the pick swap and our other assets, sans perhaps getting to 1 or 2, I think we have the tools to go get most guys we want if they aren't available. This is not some zero sum game here, hell last year was like the second or third time there was no movement in the lottery. Yes the lottery exists...... relax.

It's not tank at all costs, it's player rotations so you can't win. And it's all in the name of "player development" and "seeing what you have for next year". Long and TJ and Anderson and Stauskas ought to be playing 36 mins each (144), Cov and Saric and Holmes and TLC 20 each (224), which leaves Sergio and Henderson 8 each (240). With a crunch time lineup of Holmes, Long, Anderson, Sauce, and TJ. Those rotations should fail to win 90% of the time. And it's not a bad look, because all their guys are playing.

[TheAntiTrump]

[With a crunch time lineup of Holmes, Long, Anderson, Sauce, and TJ. Those rotations should fail to win 90% of the time. And it's not a bad look, because all their guys are playing.

Those are some of our best talents. Holmes is good. TJ is our starter, and one of the better NBA Facilitators in the entire league. I agree with Anderson getting more time to see what he can do, and get accustomed with some of our regulars. But TLC should remain our starter. And Dario and Covington must continue to play to gain some future Chemistry with the likes of a Anderson and TLC. Cause most likely in the future, those guys will be our first players off our bench.

[Sixerscan]

Bell is playing out of his mind.