2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2

[Slizeezyc]

Yep, because when Lonzo misses, because his offensive arsenal is so limited, he misses badly. So when he faces a De'Aaron Fox at the next level, he's going to be jacking up terrible threes in order to score. We just had a preview of what he'll be against NBA competition. I wouldn't want to harp on one game though; however, he sucked against Kentucky the first time they played. Check out his numbers against Arizona. How's he going to be against Marcus Smart? Tony Allen?

The only reason to love Lonzo is his passing. Otherwise, you have to hope he's getting open shots at the next level because he's not driving on anyone worth their salt at defense in the next level and he's definitely not getting his shot off easily in ISO situations.

De'Aaron actually has a more traditional form and shooting coaches will know what to do with it. In addition to that, he can drive on anyone in college because he's an elite athlete and that should translate to the next level. Oh yea, and he actually plays defense.

I've beat the drum on concerns with Lonzo's issues against certain styles of defense, which I think we talked about in terms of my not wanting him to be "the guy" on a team. But if he's just a shooting dude with good passing skills, then he's not going to go up against the Tony Allens of the world (for the record, just about no one could score on peak Allen with any efficiency). On top of that, he doesn't strike me as someone who will force much.

A lot of what you're saying I still don't think has much to do with shooting outcomes either way, but I understand the concept of liking Fox more than Ball if that's what you're getting at overall.

Then if you're not taking Lonzo as a "the guy", then why is anyone taking him in the top 10? He's not particularly good at defense, he's a spot shooter, essentially. I don't think it needs to be Tony Allen even. Put MCW on him and he's not getting a clean look off all day.

And now what do we have? A guy who struggles at driving the ball, hasn't shown a compelling reason to believe in his pull up jumper, sucks against a faster opponent on defense. That's not a top 10 player.

And even if you wanted to implement a pull up jumper in Ball's game, what is a shooting coach going to do with that form? What are we going to do about his 67% FT shooting? I'd rather have to dissect and figure out Fox's form than dive into Ball's situation. That's what I'm saying.

Fair enough, good chat.

[Negrodamus]

Not to be a homer, but these calls have been horrendous for UK. Offensive goaltending on Adebayo and a blocking call that should have been a charge. Just terrible.

[Negrodamus]

Phew, this game is going to get ugly. It feels like the refs are picking on Bam the entire game thus far. UNC is a phenomenal team without the help from the refs. With Fox sitting till the second half, this might get to a 20 point deficit.

[phiphan]

Everyone is scared to death of taking a senior with only 1 year of dominance in the Top 10, but Sindarious Thornwell very easily could be one of the 5 best players in this draft.

People are scared of taking Thornwell because he's like two standard deviations below an average NBA athlete at his position.

Would you take Thornwell over Monk in a vacuum, i.e. without considering team needs?

[Mik317]

Everyone is scared to death of taking a senior with only 1 year of dominance in the Top 10, but Sindarious Thornwell very easily could be one of the 5 best players in this draft.

People are scared of taking Thornwell because he's like two standard deviations below an average NBA athlete.

Would you take Thornwell over Monk in a vacuum, i.e. without considering team needs?

he doesn't like Monk at all. So my guess is yeah. Kobble's type of player is one who can play both sides of the ball. He's more willing to give a guy benefit of the doubt if he is capable on defense because generally you can teach a guy to suck less offensively and can win with subpar offense if they bring top notch defense. Thornwell may not be a creator at this level but he plays tough defense and has to be guarded as a shooter.

You figure people would get his type by now lol.

[phiphan]

Everyone is scared to death of taking a senior with only 1 year of dominance in the Top 10, but Sindarious Thornwell very easily could be one of the 5 best players in this draft.

People are scared of taking Thornwell because he's like two standard deviations below an average NBA athlete.

Would you take Thornwell over Monk in a vacuum, i.e. without considering team needs?

he doesn't like Monk at all. So my guess is yeah. Kobble's type of player is one who can play both sides of the ball. He's more willing to give a guy benefit of the doubt if he is capable on defense because generally you can teach a guy to suck less offensively and can win with subpar offense if they bring top notch defense. Thornwell may not be a creator at this level but he plays tough defense and has to be guarded as a shooter.

You figure people would get his type by now lol.

I know what kobble thinks of Monk, I'm just trying to lock him into some of his hotter takes

[Negrodamus]

Everyone is scared to death of taking a senior with only 1 year of dominance in the Top 10, but Sindarious Thornwell very easily could be one of the 5 best players in this draft.

People are scared of taking Thornwell because he's like two standard deviations below an average NBA athlete at his position.

Would you take Thornwell over Monk in a vacuum, i.e. without considering team needs?

Wat?

Watch on YouTube

[Negrodamus]

I cannot believe UK is down 5 at the half. We played our second team and Briscoe for the majority of the first half because of horrifically bad foul calls. On top of that, we missed every shot possible in the final 5 minutes. Mulder needs to never play again.

Need Monk and/or Fox to go nuts and the refs to allow the players to play the GD game.

[phiphan]

Everyone is scared to death of taking a senior with only 1 year of dominance in the Top 10, but Sindarious Thornwell very easily could be one of the 5 best players in this draft.

People are scared of taking Thornwell because he's like two standard deviations below an average NBA athlete at his position.

Would you take Thornwell over Monk in a vacuum, i.e. without considering team needs?

Wat?

Watch on YouTube

Lol point taken. Some of those are impressive. But his vert unfortunately doesn't translate to burst, which I think is more important.

[JojoSlimbiid]

Thornwell kind of reminds me of a less selfish, high character Shabazz Mo. Perimeter guys that play an unusual amount in the post. On the perimeter he looks like another guy to me. He's a late round pick.

[LloydFree]

Everyone is scared to death of taking a senior with only 1 year of dominance in the Top 10, but Sindarious Thornwell very easily could be one of the 5 best players in this draft.

People are scared of taking Thornwell because he's like two standard deviations below an average NBA athlete at his position.

Would you take Thornwell over Monk in a vacuum, i.e. without considering team needs?

I like the Wes Matthews comp someone put on him earlier. But I'm not sure he's as mobile.

[cksdayoff]

Where do you guys see Thornwell going in the draft?

[LloydFree]

Casey Hill of Florida, may have played his last​ meaningful game. I have a soft spot for him. The undisputed best player on his HS team, when he was there. He played with future millionaires' Joel Embiid, D'angelo Russell and Ben Simmons and he likely doesn't even get drafted. That has to hurt.

[GabeCerebro]

I still think we need to walk out of this draft by any means with Fultz or Ball. If you have to give up the LA pick and Kings pick to do it, then so be it. We desperately need a high shelf impact player in the backcourt, not a complimentary piece. I wouldn't hate us getting Issac or Fox or DSJ, but yeah...

[Mik317]

Where do you guys see Thornwell going in the draft?

probably to some team in the 20s or 30s and in a few years we all go "how?"

so...the Spurs

[Negrodamus]

I still think we need to walk out of this draft by any means with Fultz or Ball. If you have to give up the LA pick and Kings pick to do it, then so be it. We desperately need a high shelf impact player in the backcourt, not a complimentary piece. I wouldn't hate us getting Issac or Fox or DSJ, but yeah...

With Saric and Simmons (and McConnell to an extent), I'm not sure we need the facilitator of Ball, especially if he's not much of a penetrator nor does he play defense.

Fultz plays little defense, takes extremely ill advised shots (that he makes, to his credit), and makes boneheaded decisions more frequently than he should as the point guard.

DSJ is Fultz-lite

Fox, Tatum, Jackson are the perceived top prospects according to the draft sites that we should be targeting.

[Kobblehead]

People are scared of taking Thornwell because he's like two standard deviations below an average NBA athlete at his position.

Would you take Thornwell over Monk in a vacuum, i.e. without considering team needs?

Even if I agreed with that stance on his athleticism (I don't), isn't Robert Covington about two deviations below the athletic standards of the SF position? Does that prevent him from being an elite defender?

Of course I would take Sindarious Thornwell over Malik Monk in a vacuum.

[Kobblehead]

he doesn't like Monk at all. So my guess is yeah. Kobble's type of player is one who can play both sides of the ball. He's more willing to give a guy benefit of the doubt if he is capable on defense because generally you can teach a guy to suck less offensively and can win with subpar offense if they bring top notch defense. Thornwell may not be a creator at this level but he plays tough defense and has to be guarded as a shooter.

You figure people would get his type by now lol.

Pretty much.

And for the record, I would lower my defensive standards for a multi-tool stud like Markelle Fultz.

Malik Monk just does nothing for me. A 1-tool shrimp with t-rex arms that can't dribble, create or defend. I can't get jiggy with that.

[cksdayoff]

Where do you guys see Thornwell going in the draft?

probably to some team in the 20s or 30s and in a few years we all go "how?"

so...the Spurs

I'm thinking the Spurs take someone like PJ Dozier late in the 1st round.

[Unbreakable99]

Awful game for Monk.