The Ringer: Raptors should consider blowing it up

[ATLTimekeeper]

Should the Celtics blow it up? My rationale is this: yes, they're in first place currently, but they also have one of the worst net ratings for a conference leader in recent record. This is a placeholder contender, largely because the Cavs and Raptors have been dealing with injuries to all-stars for half a season. Second, they have an MVP candidate in Isaiah Thomas, but he's closer to Carmelo Anthony in terms of being only useful at one end of the court. He's also emotionally fragile and will be due a significant raise after next season. His trade value will never be higher than at the end of this season, but his size pretty much makes him physically incapable of playing defense. We saw this with Jose Calderon, who just didn't have the body to defend and so he was always a point of attack. After that they have Al Horford, who is a spectacular vet, but he is not a secondary scorer on a champion and will be an expensive glue guy going forward. Avery Bradley and Marcus Smart are also in IT's situation, they'll get paid for being role players on good teams. And this is also keeping in mind they will most certainly lose Amir Johnson, Kelly Olynyk and Jonas Jerebko in order to keep their cap sheet clean to make that big move.

Now of course, they have those Brooklyn picks and Jaylen Brown looks enticing, but historically it's been difficult to develop high picks on good teams. They come in with their own expectations, the vets on the team want to win now, the coaching staff is nitpicky. The draft is volatile enough as it is. Does it not make more sense to trade Thomas and Horford now and build around this year's Brooklyn pick and Jaylen Brown? What are the odds that they land an all-star in trade that meshes perfectly with what they need? They've been trying for years now. All the deals fall through. Everyone knows what they want, so it'll be harder for them to make a fair trade.

[CoachJReturns]

Should the Celtics blow it up? My rationale is this: yes, they're in first place currently, but they also have one of the worst net ratings for a conference leader in recent record. This is a placeholder contender, largely because the Cavs and Raptors have been dealing with injuries to all-stars for half a season. Second, they have an MVP candidate in Isaiah Thomas, but he's closer to Carmelo Anthony in terms of being only useful at one end of the court. He's also emotionally fragile and will be due a significant raise after next season. His trade value will never be higher than at the end of this season, but his size pretty much makes him physically incapable of playing defense. We saw this with Jose Calderon, who just didn't have the body to defend and so he was always a point of attack. After that they have Al Horford, who is a spectacular vet, but he is not a secondary scorer on a champion and will be an expensive glue guy going forward. Avery Bradley and Marcus Smart are also in IT's situation, they'll get paid for being role players on good teams. And this is also keeping in mind they will most certainly lose Amir Johnson, Kelly Olynyk and Jonas Jerebko in order to keep their cap sheet clean to make that big move.

Now of course, they have those Brooklyn picks and Jaylen Brown looks enticing, but historically it's been difficult to develop high picks on good teams. They come in with their own expectations, the vets on the team want to win now, the coaching staff is nitpicky. The draft is volatile enough as it is. Does it not make more sense to trade Thomas and Horford now and build around this year's Brooklyn pick and Jaylen Brown? What are the odds that they land an all-star in trade that meshes perfectly with what they need? They've been trying for years now. All the deals fall through. Everyone knows what they want, so it'll be harder for them to make a fair trade.

They're in a pretty ideal situation to blow it up after this season and I'd be very curious to see how fans would take it. They haven't really nailed any draft picks yet(jury is still out on Jaylen), but it only takes one to turn it around. It's hard to see guys like Fultz, Ball, Josh Jackson and DSJ not being all-stars at least. If they traded Thomas at the draft for another top 5ish pick they'd be well on their way. Thomas is a beast on offense and Horford is definitely a solid piece for a winning team. But your criticisms of them are incorrect.
It would be a very ballsy move to blow it up, but it's not like the city has been waiting forever for a great team. They won a title only 8 years ago, which really isn't long in the NBA with so many repeating champions over the years.

[Dr Positivity]

Should the Celtics blow it up? My rationale is this: yes, they're in first place currently, but they also have one of the worst net ratings for a conference leader in recent record. This is a placeholder contender, largely because the Cavs and Raptors have been dealing with injuries to all-stars for half a season. Second, they have an MVP candidate in Isaiah Thomas, but he's closer to Carmelo Anthony in terms of being only useful at one end of the court. He's also emotionally fragile and will be due a significant raise after next season. His trade value will never be higher than at the end of this season, but his size pretty much makes him physically incapable of playing defense. We saw this with Jose Calderon, who just didn't have the body to defend and so he was always a point of attack. After that they have Al Horford, who is a spectacular vet, but he is not a secondary scorer on a champion and will be an expensive glue guy going forward. Avery Bradley and Marcus Smart are also in IT's situation, they'll get paid for being role players on good teams. And this is also keeping in mind they will most certainly lose Amir Johnson, Kelly Olynyk and Jonas Jerebko in order to keep their cap sheet clean to make that big move.

Now of course, they have those Brooklyn picks and Jaylen Brown looks enticing, but historically it's been difficult to develop high picks on good teams. They come in with their own expectations, the vets on the team want to win now, the coaching staff is nitpicky. The draft is volatile enough as it is. Does it not make more sense to trade Thomas and Horford now and build around this year's Brooklyn pick and Jaylen Brown? What are the odds that they land an all-star in trade that meshes perfectly with what they need? They've been trying for years now. All the deals fall through. Everyone knows what they want, so it'll be harder for them to make a fair trade.

I still think trading the pick for Butler and going all in on the Isaiah core, gets them closer to a title than blowing it all up and trying to build a whole new team around those picks. There has to be so many things to go right for the blowing it up and rebuild around draft pick plans to end in glory for them. Sure adding Butler to their current team doesn't guarantee they can get past a team with true superstars but it's plausible. The Celtics with Butler aren't lacking in star power any more than 2014 Spurs in my opinion, if we're not counting what TD used to be. Nor 2004 Spurs or 1989 or 1990 Pistons (original Isiah is overrated). The 70s had half ensemble champions. The whole you need a superstar thing is still built on a small sample size. Over the last two decades years you had a bunch of teams like 2013 Spurs, 2010 Celtics, 2005 Pistons, 2000 Blazers that made it deep into a Game 7 (first 3 in the Finals, Blazers in WCF but if they made it through them or Pacers win). If you make it as close as they did you're good enough to win. If you include those and 80s Pistons there's more times that an ensemble type team could have won a title without MVP level player than some people say.

Another option is to keep holding on for years with those prospect solely to wait until the Anthony Davis shoe drops. Because it's going to.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Should the Celtics blow it up? My rationale is this: yes, they're in first place currently, but they also have one of the worst net ratings for a conference leader in recent record. This is a placeholder contender, largely because the Cavs and Raptors have been dealing with injuries to all-stars for half a season. Second, they have an MVP candidate in Isaiah Thomas, but he's closer to Carmelo Anthony in terms of being only useful at one end of the court. He's also emotionally fragile and will be due a significant raise after next season. His trade value will never be higher than at the end of this season, but his size pretty much makes him physically incapable of playing defense. We saw this with Jose Calderon, who just didn't have the body to defend and so he was always a point of attack. After that they have Al Horford, who is a spectacular vet, but he is not a secondary scorer on a champion and will be an expensive glue guy going forward. Avery Bradley and Marcus Smart are also in IT's situation, they'll get paid for being role players on good teams. And this is also keeping in mind they will most certainly lose Amir Johnson, Kelly Olynyk and Jonas Jerebko in order to keep their cap sheet clean to make that big move.

Now of course, they have those Brooklyn picks and Jaylen Brown looks enticing, but historically it's been difficult to develop high picks on good teams. They come in with their own expectations, the vets on the team want to win now, the coaching staff is nitpicky. The draft is volatile enough as it is. Does it not make more sense to trade Thomas and Horford now and build around this year's Brooklyn pick and Jaylen Brown? What are the odds that they land an all-star in trade that meshes perfectly with what they need? They've been trying for years now. All the deals fall through. Everyone knows what they want, so it'll be harder for them to make a fair trade.

I still think trading the pick for Butler and going all in on the Isaiah core, gets them closer to a title than blowing it all up and trying to build a whole new team around those picks. There has to be so many things to go right for the blowing it up and rebuild around draft pick plans to end in glory for them. Sure adding Butler to their current team doesn't guarantee they can get past a team with true superstars but it's plausible. The Celtics with Butler aren't lacking in star power any more than 2014 Spurs in my opinion, if we're not counting what TD used to be.

Another option is to keep holding on for years with those prospect solely to wait until the Anthony Davis shoe drops. Because it's going to.

That's more to my point about being the team competing for the upset. No one is amassing the talent on paper that Golden State currently has in the next few years. Hell, even Cleveland has a better core 3 with Love, LeBron and Irving than Butler/IT and Horford. And those are all awesome players, but if the idea is to give yourself more than a puncher's chance they'd be better maxing out on assets and building through Fultz/Ball on rookie deals and waiting out Golden State's dynasty.

[The_Hater]

I'm trying to take you seriously but you mention the Raptors young talent and forget to include Delon Wright and Jacob Poeltl who are *actually in the rotation right now unlike Pascal and Bruno.* cmon man.

This comment touches on something I read in this topic: the timing of this article is bad because right now the Cavs are sucking and right now the Raptors are excelling, so the focus should be on the now. On the focus: Masai Ujiri is future-focused. At Sloan, Ujiri said, "Everything we do, we really try to look at the future." That is apparent with his roster construct having so many young players and their excellent use of the D-League. Just because Pascal and Bruno aren't playing now doesn't mean they're not more important than Wright and Poeltl. (As for Wright and Poeltl they're fine! And all down the line, they have solid talent. No reason to list them all. You know.) As for timing: a few people said this article would've made more sense after a round one playoff loss, or during the offseason. Right, it would make more sense but that's when everyone could be writing about this. It's always better when you're ahead of the conversation — and when it comes to decisions, like Ujiri historically has been.

You just don't get it. Raptors have sucked for decades and are finally relevant. We still have no idea how this new team looks with a healthy Kyle Lowry. The dude who was arguably playing like a top 10 player this season before he went down. DeRozan is not like previous seasons, he's taken a huge leap. You're jumping to conclusions based on assumptions to get clicks and I'm guessing it worked out nicely for you.

Dude, we all get it. You're from Boston, you know your team wont beat the Raptors in a series. You and Bill Simmons have wanted us to tank for years now. Enjoy that #1 seed cause you guys are the weakest #1 seed in NBA history. Wouldn't be surprised if you lose in the 1st round.

Instead of actually arguing his points, you resorted to 'youre obviously biased' and a bunch of lols.

If your goal was to be an embarrassment for the entire Raptor board, you succeeded. So well done.

[slothrop8]

Should the Celtics blow it up? My rationale is this: yes, they're in first place currently, but they also have one of the worst net ratings for a conference leader in recent record. This is a placeholder contender, largely because the Cavs and Raptors have been dealing with injuries to all-stars for half a season. Second, they have an MVP candidate in Isaiah Thomas, but he's closer to Carmelo Anthony in terms of being only useful at one end of the court. He's also emotionally fragile and will be due a significant raise after next season. His trade value will never be higher than at the end of this season, but his size pretty much makes him physically incapable of playing defense. We saw this with Jose Calderon, who just didn't have the body to defend and so he was always a point of attack. After that they have Al Horford, who is a spectacular vet, but he is not a secondary scorer on a champion and will be an expensive glue guy going forward. Avery Bradley and Marcus Smart are also in IT's situation, they'll get paid for being role players on good teams. And this is also keeping in mind they will most certainly lose Amir Johnson, Kelly Olynyk and Jonas Jerebko in order to keep their cap sheet clean to make that big move.

Now of course, they have those Brooklyn picks and Jaylen Brown looks enticing, but historically it's been difficult to develop high picks on good teams. They come in with their own expectations, the vets on the team want to win now, the coaching staff is nitpicky. The draft is volatile enough as it is. Does it not make more sense to trade Thomas and Horford now and build around this year's Brooklyn pick and Jaylen Brown? What are the odds that they land an all-star in trade that meshes perfectly with what they need? They've been trying for years now. All the deals fall through. Everyone knows what they want, so it'll be harder for them to make a fair trade.

Yes, they definitely should. You aren't winning a title with IT on the floor when it matters and you're definitely not winning a title with IT eating up a big chunk of your cap. They should definitely cash in IT and probably Horford too and go to war with Bradley/Crawford/Smart/Brown and the boatloads of high end picks, young players, and cap room they would then have if they could move those two for nice assets. We better hope they don't do that because with a bit of luck in the draft there's a pathway for Boston to dominate the East for a long time after LeBron is done dominating it. Right now IT becoming a Boston folk hero is wonderful for them for this year, but potentially devastating for them long term if they get attached to him. In a bizarre way, the whole IT blow-up has been a fabulous stroke of luck for us long term.

[Lady3Jane]

This was actually a well written, well thought out and well organized article. Much better than the random garbage we see on Sportsnet. So Kudos for that. However i think its bit pre-mature to be discussing a tear down at this stage. Like many have already pointed out, the Raptors are relevant for the first time in two decades, you dont just throw away that kind of winning culture on a whim in the slim hope of winning a championship. At this stage i think many Raptors fans, and Toronto sports fans in general are happy to see the Raptors in the playoffs at all, after enduring over 20 years of complete and utter mediocrity. Do i think this team is good enough as is to win a Championship? No, not against a healthy Warriors or Cavs team. However, an injury here and there to LeBron or Curry or Love or Green and anything can happen!

[dkb33]

After reading the article and listening to a podcast where the author discussed his piece I can not help but finds flaws. He says that the Raptors should sign Lowry no matter what it takes this summer. How in the heck do you even semi blow it up if you bring back Lowry? He also seems to undervalue DeRozan because of his lack of a 3 point shot. DeRozan is not close to any of these guys obviously but you don't need a 3 point shot to be a great SG.(MJ, Kobe & Wade) He also seem oblivious to the sudden change from being a bad defensive team to a good defensive team with the additions of Ibaka & Tucker. Lowry, Ibaka, Patterson & Tucker are free agents and I understand that the option is there to blow it but this team is better then the team last year that made the ECF and surprised by taking two games off of a healthy Cavailers team. This team is not the Celtics who get bounced in the first round every year. They proved their worth last spring and have only gotten better in terms of additions and youth improving. This geek should have waited on an article like this until the summer when it may have made sense if the Raptors flame out. They won't because they are a sneaky dark horse for the ultimate of prizes in the NBA.

[KevinOConnorNBA]

I think if you could guarantee the chance to do a quick dip down into the lottery in order to pick a perennial all-star to set up an 8+ year run of sustained success, then most fans would agree with you that that is the right path forward. Every fanbase dreams of being able to do what the Spurs did, take a solid team down into the lottery for a year and come away with Tim Duncan. Or even what Boston did, tear apart an aging Championship core to rebuild quickly.

But there's a huge amount of luck involved with those analogies. Whether it's the Spurs having half their roster injured (but intact) the same year that they ultimately win the lottery and happen to have one of the 10 greatest NBA players of all time become available in the draft. Or the Celtics finding an owner/GM combination as stupid as Prokhorov/Billy King to take the other side of the worst trade of all time.

Absolutely tons of luck for all the reasons you listed.

The 2014 draft class was hyped as the best class since 2003. Wiggins, Parker, Randle, Gordon, Embiid, Exum, etc. were all can't miss prospects that would totally re-shape the NBA landscape for the next decade+. Three years in? Hasn't really happened.

That draft class was totally misread IMO. This is what I wrote in my 2014 draft guide. (TL;DR: The 2014 draft class is full of really good players and high-end role players, not superstars.)

"There has been a lot of discussion over the course of the year about whether the 2014 NBA Draft class is “overrated” or “underrated.” I would say that it’s neither and that it has simply been misconstrued.

Many evaluators who think fondly of this draft compare it to the class of 2003, one that featured LeBron James, Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade, and Carmelo Anthony. That’s probably a bit of an overstatement, so I prefer to compare this year to 1999’s class, a year that was virtually 14-to-15 deep with borderline All-Stars and high-end role players. Players like Elton Brand, Manu Ginobili, Andrei Kirilenko, Shawn Marion, and Jason Terry were littered throughout the draft, and this year’s crop could be very much like that with loads of impact players.

However, I’d also be willing to bet that there will be more “elite talent” this year than there was in 1999, though not quite on the level of 2003, as there is no LeBron. There is far too much promising talent, so at least one player at the top should turn into something “special.” Maybe it’ll be Joel Embiid or Jabari Parker, but it could very well be someone like Dario Šarić or Noah Vonleh. Some will read that and say “no way,” which seems to be a narrative as of late, only as an overreaction to the overhyping of the draft before the year. While it could turn out to be true that there are no stars, it’s unreasonable to say something like that now.

A lot of people tend to forget that the stars of today’s NBA didn’t become stars until they became stars. When Dirk Nowitzki was drafted 9th in 1998, was he one of the best bigs of the generation at the time? No, he was a tall, lanky, and risky International pick. When Rajon Rondo was drafted 21st in 2006, was he one of the most exciting playmakers in the league? No, he was just an athlete with very little pure basketball talent outside of his passing. But both Dirk and Rondo turned into special players, which could be exactly the case for multiple players this draft. In that sense, drafts are unpredictable, but what we can do is look at the amount of raw talent and assess how strong of a chance each player has to reach their potential. That applies to the projected lottery picks, as well as prospects in the second round.

With that said, this class runs deep with talent throughout the first round and into the second. Of course, not every prospect will develop, and many of them will never reach the NBA, but compared to most seasons, that’s saying a lot. Overall, fans of every team should be excited heading into draft night. With so much talent, impact players can and will be scattered throughout the draft. And one team might just hit the jackpot."

So maybe 2017 is a historically great draft class. Or maybe it's just 2014v2. Or maybe it is as good as 2003, but even that year, Detroit picked Darko with the #2 overall pick (so even in a great draft year, your team can still mess it up).

I think 2017 has a better chance of being like 1996 than 2017 — a super deep class, with tons of all-stars. Maybe not quite as many Hall of Famers though. And I think 2018 might be more like 2003 but it's so early in the evaluation process that I'm not quite sure yet. But I do know I'm in love with Porter and Doncic.

When you take a probability-weighted approach to the question it's a much harder discussion. Would I rather have a core that's not quite good enough play competitive top-level basketball and have an outside chance at a championship for a few years or go after the mystery box? A legitimate case can be made for both.

That's where context comes in. As I mentioned in a post earlier in this thread, consider a team like the Clippers. For 30 years, they were historically bad. Now even though the Chris Paul/Blake Griffin/DeAndre Jordan core might not win a championship, the Lob City era has completely changed the perception of that franchise around the league. Same thing with Dallas which was awful for decades before Dirk's arrival. Of course Dirk led the Mavs to a championship, but more than that, he and Cuban have changed the perception of that franchise to be one of the most attractive in the league. Both those franchises have a level of goodwill around the league they didn't enjoy historically.

For the first 20 years of their existence, the Raptors have been known around the league as a bad team and a bad franchise. What Lowry/DeRozan plus Ujiri/Casey have the chance to do for the Raptors is similar to my examples above -- they have a chance to sustain this run and change the perception of this franchise around the league.

Think of places like Charlotte or Milwaukee. Yes they occasionally have a good year or two and pop into the playoffs (and might even make it to the ECF every now and then like the Cassell/Baker/Allen core did 15 years ago) but they're generally just bad teams and are seen around the league as bad teams. If the Raptors blow it up now and miss out on the luck needed to secure that 4-8 year run you talk about, they'll be seen the same way. A bad team that popped up and had one good year and has now gone back to their rightful place at the bottom of the league.

That's why I'm in the camp that says we have to ride this wave of success as far as we can. If the wind naturally comes out of the sails, sure -- let's reset...maybe as early as next trade deadline if it's clear the franchise is trending downwards. But trading Lowry this offseason seems premature, and proactively dismantling potentially the 2nd best team in the East because LeBron is around seems way too risky for a potential payoff that most likely won't land you in a spot better than the one we're in today.

This is all very fair and I wouldn't argue it. Context does matter. But I think the Clippers should've pulled the trigger on a Blake deal either before the 2016 deadline or the 2016 summer (they were talking with the Celtics—don't believe Doc's denial on the Woj podcast. It was very light discussion, just casual, but they talked trade—I'm not sure of other teams). And maybe the Raptors will need to make a tweak at some point. I'm glad they did what they did this February to make a stronger run this postseason.

[KevinOConnorNBA]

First, its nice to have you respond to our queries and angst hah.

I guess if thats how you want to boil it down, my qualm would be, youre basing the entirety of your premise on conjecture.

If the argument is we should rebuild because we cant beat these generational teams (GSW/CLE), then again this article could be written about alot of teams.

If the argument is 2-3 yrs vs 4-8, then its an even harder sell because then the argument becomes why are assured that a) it doesnt extend beyond 3 yrs, and b) following a rebuild we will have 4-8 yrs.

I'm not sure this team could be written about a lot of teams at this point in time. I think my general point is that they lock themselves into a core if they bring the band back. I'm not sure what kind of core pieces they could package together. Jonas Valanciunas would have. DeMarre Carroll can still contribute defensively if healthy but the problem is health. Cory Joseph might be an asset. The young guys could be too, but are any of them gonna get you a really damn good player who moves the needle? This article can be written about the Celtics in 2018 if they re-sign Isaiah Thomas and Avery Bradley, but at this time they have better assets. We'll see how that develops.The Wizards core is a lot younger than the Raptors' so I wouldn't say this about them. Same with the Bucks. The Bulls and Pacers need to blow it up and I've written about that before. The Hornets should too but they're a franchise that cares about playoffs more than titles. I think the Clippers should've traded Blake or DJ last summer. Now that's out of their hands. I think the Blazers should consider making tweaks but not a full rebuild because they're young.

I will say the overarching premise that MU should consider all options, is a valid one. I think hes one of the few GMs I feel like will never act impetuously, and is not afraid to make a bold is its a necessity. I dont disagree that these next 2 drafts have alot of potential, but that alone doesnt ensure we will have a team ready for a "sustained run". If there were guarantees that was the case, than im all for it.

As a caveat there were few bigger fans of tanking/accumulating picks than I was back in 2012 offseason, but I just dont think this is the time for us to take that avenue, and FWIW those posters were right because we have had 4 yrs of PO basketball, and relative sustained success, even if it is only for 2-3 (6-7 total) more as you say.

For some reason I first read "MU" as "MJ" and was like man, the Raptors are so lucky MJ Isn't really their decision-maker.

[KevinOConnorNBA]

Thanks for the comments KOC. I understand what you're trying to say but while I may be biased it seems to me like there's never been a time to be more optimistic that the Raptors can make the Finals in the Lowry era. The Cavs are floundering and there's a plausible chance they move into a 2011-2013 Lakers version of this era. While Lowry is over 30, Lebron has played twice as many minutes as him including the playoffs. The Cavs depth is full of old players while the Raptors are full of young ones. Even if the Cavs hold on this year, next year their problems could just get worse opening the door for Toronto who if they resign Lowry and Ibaka could have a full season to go after the 1 seed. The Raptors don't have to be the Clippers or the Bengals. If the Ringer had posted an article this week saying "Can the Raptors make the Finals" based on their defense after the Ibaka trade and having the best record since of the top 4 East teams even without Lowry, I wouldn't have batted an eye

While actually winning a Finals against the Warriors or Spurs is another story, I think most of the fans here would settle for just making a Finals and seeing what happens

It's funny because my article tomorrow is about those floundering Cavs so I'm gonna come off as a big dumb hypocrite lol. But really it's about the Wiggins-Love trade and lessons to learn from that. But I think it also applies to the Raptors too since I said in a prior post that the reason the Cavs are struggling to add guys is because they're locked in, over the cap, etc. The Raps put themselves in a similar spot if they get locked in. They need to continue building like the Spurs if they do. Or else they end up like the Cavs without LeBron, and I don't think the Cavs minus LeBron are very good. Masai is a great GM though and trust what he does either way.

[KevinOConnorNBA]

It's cool dude. This is the internet lol. Thanks though.

I'd like to thank you for coming on to reply to some of the posts and I'd also like to take this time out to show you some love for your podcast. You guys are doing great things and the guest appearances keep things fresh.

If I was into leaving reviews I'd drop you guys a 5 on iTunes. If I ever find an excuse to sign up, I've got you my man.

Keep up the good work.

Much appreciated Throwback. Thank you. I gotta find an accuse to sign up myself lol. I mostly use Soundcloud if I listen on desktop or some whack app on my phone. I don't use itunes.

[KevinOConnorNBA]

After reading the article and listening to a podcast where the author discussed his piece I can not help but finds flaws. He says that the Raptors should sign Lowry no matter what it takes this summer. How in the heck do you even semi blow it up if you bring back Lowry?

Thanks for listening to the pod yo. Delayed sign and trade dude! Just like with Nene. Re-sign Lowry, go into the season with the intentions of competing, but if it doesn't go to plan, there's nothing against the rules from pulling the plug and shipping players you re-sign out.

He also seems to undervalue DeRozan because of his lack of a 3 point shot. DeRozan is not close to any of these guys obviously but you don't need a 3 point shot to be a great SG.(MJ, Kobe & Wade)

I might be. I'm kind of a hater when it comes to players who can't shoot 3s. DeRozan is a player I'd be happy to build around. He's great. But he's a player I'd also rather not build around.

He also seem oblivious to the sudden change from being a bad defensive team to a good defensive team with the additions of Ibaka & Tucker.

Nah we just didn't talk about it. Toronto's D is filthy.

This geek should have waited on an article like this until the summer when it may have made sense if the Raptors flame out. They won't because they are a sneaky dark horse for the ultimate of prizes in the NBA.

See this post (#126): http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=53881831#p53881831

[GreatWhiteStiff]

I think its safe to say if you want to win it all and have players who are peaking now and aren't really capable of winning it all, to maximize your championship players you should trade them for picks/assets and rebuild rather than keep going. I think we're too close to being actual contenders to do that though, also the optics are terrible even if its correct.

Better off trying for some treadmill championships (individual playoff series wins) IMO.

[VanWest82]

deleted

[bozothepope]

My buddy told me my Raptors article was blowing up on Real GM and linked me, so I want to join the discussion.

So I'm sitting here listening to The Ringer NBA Show pod (something I've done quite frequently during the season) and I hear RealGM mentioned. I think, hey, I should go tell the Raps RealGM board about this -- and now I discover the guy who made the mention is already posting on the board. Fun stuff.

Anywho, welcome. I'm a fan on the pod and listen often. It's one of my go-tos along with The Starters.

As for whether or not we should blow it up, I'm in favour of riding this wave.

I'm a day 1 Raps fan. In '95, I was 10 years old; I wore my Damon Stoudamire jersey to school all the time. Needless to say, I've witnessed a lot of losing here. And a lot of draft lotteries. And a lot of players wanting out of Toronto. I'm 31 now. This is much better. I'll take this for however many years I can get it.

Whenever Lowry & DeRozan flame out, we'll just wave goodbye to their contracts, sign Andrew Wiggins (who at that point will be *fingers crossed* god-like, and begin We The North: Chapter II. That's my thought process anyhow.

[KevinOConnorNBA]

Shoutout to vini_vidi_vici - I'm not able to respond to your PM because I'm apparently still a noob on RealGM.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Shoutout to vini_vidi_vici - I'm not able to respond to your PM because I'm apparently still a noob on RealGM.

No worries sir, good luck in your future endeavors. Please by all means, come by more often, while there is a big contingent of ppl prone to hyperbole, there are alot of bright, insightful posters to glean information about this team from.

[raptoradical]

https://theringer.com/toronto-raptors-possible-rebuild-kyle-lowry-demar-derozan-nba-e5f75d3981f3#.6eobcfa87

TLDR = DeMar DeRozan is an inefficient chucker who is worse without Lowry up until the last stretch of games. Lowry is old, Raptors will play poorly in playoffs, and yadayadayada.

This article's premise purposefully ignores the fact that a player matures from when they are 23 to 27 as DeRozan has this season.

[KevinOConnorNBA]

My buddy told me my Raptors article was blowing up on Real GM and linked me, so I want to join the discussion.

So I'm sitting here listening to The Ringer NBA Show pod (something I've done quite frequently during the season) and I hear RealGM mentioned. I think, hey, I should go tell the Raps RealGM board about this -- and now I discover the guy who made the mention is already posting on the board. Fun stuff.

Anywho, welcome. I'm a fan on the pod and listen often. It's one of my go-tos along with The Starters.

As for whether or not we should blow it up, I'm in favour of riding this wave.

I'm a day 1 Raps fan. In '95, I was 10 years old; I wore my Damon Stoudamire jersey to school all the time. Needless to say, I've witnessed a lot of losing here. And a lot of draft lotteries. And a lot of players wanting out of Toronto. I'm 31 now. This is much better. I'll take this for however many years I can get it.

Whenever Lowry & DeRozan flame out, we'll just wave goodbye to their contracts, sign Andrew Wiggins (who at that point will be *fingers crossed* god-like, and begin We The North: Chapter II. That's my thought process anyhow.

Thanks pope. That means a lot you enjoy the pod.