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2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2

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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1761 » by JojoSlimbiid » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:23 am

shawn_hemp wrote:Fultz is going to be a turn style on defense in the NBA. Dude had 1 or 2 chase down blocks all year in blowout games and suddenly he has "all the tools to be a good defender"

I can see him being a Jamal Crawford type of player who moves around like Dwayne Wade with the ball.

hes not really a PG at all, and I can't remember him moving off the ball much in college. Probably because he always had the ball. But that's not going to happen if he's on this team

I would rather have Josh Jackson in the top 3 than Fultz, all day


This is false on so many levels. I don't think you've watched a single Washington game to come up with a take like that. I know you like Monk but the incessant need you have of typing out negatives(even patently false) of every other draftee except Monk to try to enhance Monk's value isn't necessary. No one here is going to make the selection on draft night so you don't need to be convincing anyone of how much better Monk is.

Didn't you also say the other day that Monk has potential on D? What a joke...
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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1762 » by shawn_hemp » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:49 am

I've been saying it for a while now actually
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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1763 » by PLO » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:03 am

So NBAdraft.net have us taking Tatum and Moses Kingsley, draftexpress DSJ and Jaron Blossomgame - if we walked out of the draft with either haul I wouldn't be particularly happy.
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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1764 » by jaxsontend » Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:06 pm

shawn_hemp wrote:Fultz is going to be a turn style on defense in the NBA. Dude had 1 or 2 chase down blocks all year in blowout games and suddenly he has "all the tools to be a good defender"

I can see him being a Jamal Crawford type of player who moves around like Dwayne Wade with the ball.

hes not really a PG at all, and I can't remember him moving off the ball much in college. Probably because he always had the ball. But that's not going to happen if he's on this team

I would rather have Josh Jackson in the top 3 than Fultz, all day


im not saying Fultz has the tools to be a great defender- the only tools i see here are length and grace (which doesnt count for too much on defense). and though he probably has minus foot speed, i dont see him being a 'turnstile' but i see him getting blown up on picks way too easily and not projecting at ever being great in that area (a downside of the lankiness). but he also is 18 years old and doesnt project to be a worse defender than the lottery guards other than frank/fox (unless im missing anyone?).

but maybe im an idiot bc i also dont see it's a foregone conclusion that monk will be a **** defender (and dont think he has t-rex arms, he has narrow shoulders).

in fact.. what do you guys think are most important for good guard defense? Effort, Iq, Scheme, footspeed, the ability to get around picks, core strength, length, handspeed? what distinguishes the good pg defendes like beverly ormcconnell? bc we are evaluating mainly freshman, and in general we expect college prospects/rookies to be poor defenders on the nba level- we expect it to be a skill to be developed in most cases with guards and scorers coming into the draft. so if ppl want to say monk or fultz or ball will be killed on D, i would be curious what are the qualities they lack that prevent them from developing into plus defenders with nba coaching/training/experience?

ive been a monk or hart person as far as team needs/fit for a while, im not advocating for fultz. i am just starting to consider that fultz may be a more dominant scorer/have more superstar potential than i initially thought.
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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1765 » by shawn_hemp » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:13 pm

Ok so that was kind of a hot take to say Fultz is going to be a turn style on defense.

He is a really good basketball player, and I would take him on the Sixers in a second.

But it just seemed like he kind of got the "consensus #1 pick" title by default really, and mainly because of Lonzo Ball's jump shot.

I have watched several Washington games this year, and most of his highlights. I just don't put as much stock into producing in games that are barely games to begin with?

I'm sorry but it's easy to blow by people when you are already down by 20 points. Whether that is Fultz fault or not, it is irrelevant. It is hard to gauge how this guy will play against real NBA players, in high pressure situations.

And I could go on about how I feel about Malik Monk in pressure situations but I definitely do talk about this guy a bit too much.

You guys are right, I am really high on Malik Monk. But I don't see how that can be considered a "hot take" to say he has potential on defense.

Everyone swoons about Dario's progression this year and don't even acknowledge that Monk has done the same thing on defense.

I watched him run around like a lost child against Louisville and have a terrible shooting night early in the year and he missed a shot at the end of the game when Kentucky needed it. 6-17 fg, 1-9 3pt, nowhere to be found on defense.

And I remember thinking, ok, this kid is a straight gunner who can get cold fast. Probably not the ideal player at the next level. Screams Jodie Meeks to me

And then he has a week to sit and think about that game. A rivialry game he really sucked in

And he comes out against Ole Miss and just dominates. Say what you want about Ole Miss, but they were 5th in the SEC this year and as we know now, the SEC is actually pretty good at basketball.

Malik Monk vs Ole Miss:

11-16 fg, 5-7 3pt, 7-8 FT, 34 pts

And he was scoring in all types of ways.

He gets around screens so well and does not have a problem staying in front of his man. His arms are average length, and he won't lead the league in steals, but he forces opponents to settle for contested jump shots all the time. To me, that is a plus defender. Not everyone is going to be picking pockets, sometimes just getting a hand up is enough.

Justin Jackson hit a clutch shot late in the UNC tourney game but Monk played him as well as possible.

He blocked the last shot in the Wichita St game. He doesn't gamble much on defense because Fox is already taking the chances and all he has to do is stay in front of his man, but he does make defensive plays.

And I should clarify that I dont think he will be able to cover SGs overly well in the NBA, but he has the potential to be a decent 1v1 PG defender, and could at least switch out on 2s and hold his ground.

I also think Monk has the stronger mentality than Fultz does. Obviously I don't have much inside knowledge to base this on but when I hear Monk in interviews (not even talking about the Elite 8 post game, just throughout the year) he sounds like a guy who is just happy to be playing basketball and having fun. Someone who will come off the bench no problem

Fultz always seemed like someone who was just there to maintain his eligibility for the draft. I think if you asked this guy to come off the bench he could take it as an insult.

Idk, I'm done comparing the two. I know what I'm saying goes against most established ideas about the draft.

But I know what I saw this year, and it's not crazy to me to feel this way. And the best part is, I'll probably get my way in the end because Fultz will be gone when we pick anyway

So you better hope I'm right
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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1766 » by shawn_hemp » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:56 pm

jaxsontend wrote: but i see him getting blown up on picks way too easily and not projecting at ever being great in that area (a downside of the lankiness). but he also is 18 years old and doesnt project to be a worse defender than the lottery guards other than frank/fox (unless im missing anyone?).

but maybe im an idiot bc i also dont see it's a foregone conclusion that monk will be a **** defender (and dont think he has t-rex arms, he has narrow shoulders).

in fact.. what do you guys think are most important for good guard defense? Effort, Iq, Scheme, footspeed, the ability to get around picks, core strength, length, handspeed? what distinguishes the good pg defendes like beverly ormcconnell? bc we are evaluating mainly freshman, and in general we expect college prospects/rookies to be poor defenders on the nba level- we expect it to be a skill to be developed in most cases with guards and scorers coming into the draft. so if ppl want to say monk or fultz or ball will be killed on D, i would be curious what are the qualities they lack that prevent them from developing into plus defenders with nba coaching/training/experience?

ive been a monk or hart person as far as team needs/fit for a while, im not advocating for fultz. i am just starting to consider that fultz may be a more dominant scorer/have more superstar potential than i initially thought.


alright last post about this I swear, but that's what Im saying! it is easier for a guy like Monk to get around screens BECAUSE he is more compact than Fultz!

they are both above-average athletes but Fultz is more graceful as you put it, whereas Monk is just more... springy, is the word Id use. bouncy. w/e you like there but I hope you get what I mean. He gets where he wants to in spite of his build, not BECAUSE of it. Which I find to be the more attractive trait tbh.

he has shown me the ability to put in effort and improve on defense as the year went on.

Fultz... hasnt. Whether you want to blame that on the team or whatever, its a fact. He hasnt gotten better as the year went on, he actually didnt play at all late in the year.

And playing in a conference like the Pac - 12, where I could probably make the All-Defensive team, doesnt help my opinion of him

Oregon is the only team you could say is even passable on D, and Fultz played terribly against them. I dont point to that as an excuse because his grandmother had died like 2-3 days before and he was coming off a 2 AM flight from the east coast but that doesnt change the fact that he put up numbers in a conference that also enhanced Lonzo Ball's numbers.

Pac 12 All Defensive team

C- Chris Boucher
F- Jordan Bell
F- Dillon Brooks
G- Tyler Dorsey
G- Dylan Ennis

see what Im trying to say here?

If Im crazy for thinking all this then whatever, im crazy. I'll stop talking about Monk though, it is getting kind of old.

I respect all of your opinions though
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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1767 » by EBrandEra » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:04 pm

I know its only one game, but I liked the defensive effort that Monk put forth against UNC in the Sweet 16. He looked like he could be a passable (not great) defender in the NBA, especially when you factor his ability to shoot and score.

I am warming up to Monk and, unfortunately, the way the lottery standings seem to be shaping up, he may be the choice. If the Sixers are drafting 6th this year, my guess is we take either Monk or Isaac and considering our needs I think it will be Monk.
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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1768 » by Unbreakable99 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:48 pm

Let's say the Sixers have a top 4 pick. Would you inquire on trading that pick for Butler? And when I say top 4 that is any pick from 1-4. If you say no does it matter where in the top 4 you would trade the pick? Would you say you wouldn't trade it if we are picking 1st but would do it if we pick 2 or 3 or 4? I know some people wouldn't want Butler but for those who do is there a line of demarcation where you would trade our pick for Butler and would not trade for him?
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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1769 » by EBrandEra » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:59 pm

Unbreakable99 wrote:Let's say the Sixers have a top 4 pick. Would you inquire on trading that pick for Butler? And when I say top 4 that is any pick from 1-4. If you say no does it matter where in the top 4 you would trade the pick? Would you say you wouldn't trade it if we are picking 1st but would do it if we pick 2 or 3 or 4? I know some people wouldn't want Butler but for those who do is there a line of demarcation where you would trade our pick for Butler and would not trade for him?


Yeah, where the pick exactly is would matter to me. If the Sixers get the No. 1 pick and can draft Fultz, then I would keep the pick. If the pick is 2nd through 4th, then I would be open to trading it in a package for Butler.

Fultz is the only guy in this draft I would rather pick than entertain trading the pick. I think if the No. 2 pick can get the Sixers Jimmy Butler without giving up an excessive amount, then I would be fine with doing a trade.
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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1770 » by ProcessDoctor » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:06 pm

I wouldn't trade any of the top 4 players for Butler. Butler's obviously a very good player on a GREAT contract, but I'm not wasting his time and our money/assets while Simmons and Embiid are still developing into championship-level players. I'd rather invest in the present AND future of our team versus just the present. Even with Butler, we're not beating CLE, BOS, GS, HOU, SAS, WAS, or TOR in a 7-game series.
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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1771 » by Mik317 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:26 pm

Fultz got his rep due to his play in the various tourneys against grown ass men IIRC
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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1772 » by Unbreakable99 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:07 pm

And with the 6th pick in the 2017 NBA draft the Philadelphia 76ers select Malik Monk from Kentucky

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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1773 » by eagereyez » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:19 am

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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1774 » by Sportfan73 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:24 am

Getting 3 and 4 and picking Jackson and monk would be good with me


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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1775 » by 76ciology » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:02 am

EBrandEra wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:Let's say the Sixers have a top 4 pick. Would you inquire on trading that pick for Butler? And when I say top 4 that is any pick from 1-4. If you say no does it matter where in the top 4 you would trade the pick? Would you say you wouldn't trade it if we are picking 1st but would do it if we pick 2 or 3 or 4? I know some people wouldn't want Butler but for those who do is there a line of demarcation where you would trade our pick for Butler and would not trade for him?


Yeah, where the pick exactly is would matter to me. If the Sixers get the No. 1 pick and can draft Fultz, then I would keep the pick. If the pick is 2nd through 4th, then I would be open to trading it in a package for Butler.

Fultz is the only guy in this draft I would rather pick than entertain trading the pick. I think if the No. 2 pick can get the Sixers Jimmy Butler without giving up an excessive amount, then I would be fine with doing a trade.


I'd be realistic and trade a top 4 pick for Jimmy Butler. I suggest you look at how good Jimmy Butler's stats are before saying no.

Jimmy Butler with our roster should also boost our chances in signing a big time FA.
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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1776 » by TheAntiTrump » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:14 am

76ciology wrote:
EBrandEra wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:Let's say the Sixers have a top 4 pick. Would you inquire on trading that pick for Butler? And when I say top 4 that is any pick from 1-4. If you say no does it matter where in the top 4 you would trade the pick? Would you say you wouldn't trade it if we are picking 1st but would do it if we pick 2 or 3 or 4? I know some people wouldn't want Butler but for those who do is there a line of demarcation where you would trade our pick for Butler and would not trade for him?


Yeah, where the pick exactly is would matter to me. If the Sixers get the No. 1 pick and can draft Fultz, then I would keep the pick. If the pick is 2nd through 4th, then I would be open to trading it in a package for Butler.

Fultz is the only guy in this draft I would rather pick than entertain trading the pick. I think if the No. 2 pick can get the Sixers Jimmy Butler without giving up an excessive amount, then I would be fine with doing a trade.


I'd be realistic and trade a top 4 pick for Jimmy Butler. I suggest you look at how good Jimmy Butler's stats are before saying no.

Jimmy Butler with our roster should also boost our chances in signing a big time FA.






" Stats " don't win games. I mean what real difference has he made in Chicago ? I mean besides upsetting almost all his teammates and Ex-teammates ?
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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1777 » by shawn_hemp » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:06 am

I wouldn't mind if we traded for Butler, but I wouldn't be opposed to them passing on it as well.

If we get the Lakers pick and can flip that and our 1st rounder next year + Okafor for Butler, I think you have to do it though.

He would round out this team pretty nicely at SG
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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1778 » by Wilfried » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:52 am

Unbreakable99 wrote:And with the 6th pick in the 2017 NBA draft the Philadelphia 76ers select Malik Monk from Kentucky

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I really like this kid but I don't want them to draft fit over talent.
If Embiid is never healthy and Simmons is not as good as advertised, it could haunt us if we leave Jonathan Isaac to another team.
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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1779 » by Unbreakable99 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:37 pm

Wilfried wrote:
Unbreakable99 wrote:And with the 6th pick in the 2017 NBA draft the Philadelphia 76ers select Malik Monk from Kentucky

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I really like this kid but I don't want them to draft fit over talent.
If Embiid is never healthy and Simmons is not as good as advertised, it could haunt us if we leave Jonathan Isaac to another team.


I think Isaac could have one of the highest ceilings in the draft. He doesn't score as much as I would like and has some passivity to his game but that could just be because he is young. He defers a lot. We need a guy who is willing to score. Again I like Isaac. If we drafted him it wouldn't be that bad however I wonder how he would fit with Simmons and Saric. There probably wouldn't be a lot of minutes for him his rookie season. And I would like it if we don't draft another PF who plays the same position as Simmons and Saric. We need balance.

I'm pretty confident that BC won't draft Isaac if he's on the board because he wants to start to build a more balanced team. If we did draft Isaac we would need to be very patient with him. He might not start to come into his own until about year 3. I just can't see BC adding another player creating another log jam at PF this time instead of Center. Can't see it.
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Re: 2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread Volume 2 

Post#1780 » by Sixerscan » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:31 pm

Plenty of room over here on the Malik Monk bandwagon guys. Get a good seat while you can!

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