Trade Ideas thread

[Mattya]

Give an example.

of players becoming better defenders as they get more experience?

No, of teams with such horrible defenders to get better with more experience while keeping everyone around.

The Rockets this season, the Pistons last season, the Blazers, the Raptors. None of those teams traded essential pieces to their team to add defense.

[Merc_Porto]

of players becoming better defenders as they get more experience?

No, of teams with such horrible defenders to get better with more experience while keeping everyone around.

I can't even think of a team historically whose top 3 players were 21 years old or younger, so the question is invalid.

I see, so you think if a team with let´s say with:

21 YO James Harden as PG
21 YO Zach Lavine as SG
21 YO Brandon Ingram as SF

You think with experience they would figure out defensibly ?
Instead of doing what EVERY SMART team in the NBA does, which is adjusting.

[Mattya]

No, of teams with such horrible defenders to get better with more experience while keeping everyone around.

I can't even think of a team historically whose top 3 players were 21 years old or younger, so the question is invalid.

I see, so you think if a team with let´s say with:

21 YO James Harden as PG
21 YO Zach Lavine as SG
21 YO Brandon Ingram as SF

You think with experience they would figure out defensibly ?
Instead of doing what EVERY SMART team in the NBA does, which is adjusting.

For LaVine and Ingram? Sure. Harden chooses not to play defense. Even then his offensive production goes way beyond any defensive flaws he has and on top of that you can always add defense players around a team. As the Rockets did with Beverly, Ariza, and Capella or the Raptors did around Derozan with PJ Tucker, Demarre Carroll, and Serge Ibaka and Biyombo last season. And how the Blazers added defense in free agency with Al Farouq Aminu and through trades for Mo Harkless and Jusuf Nurkic. None of those teams traded a player with Zach LaVine's value to do it. How were those teams dumb? They pretty much did exactly what you are attempting to do(improve defense) in all your terrible trades, but significantly better.

[Merc_Porto]

of players becoming better defenders as they get more experience?

No, of teams with such horrible defenders to get better with more experience while keeping everyone around.

The Rockets this season, the Pistons last season, the Blazers, the Raptors. None of those teams traded essential pieces to their team to add defense.

What ?

The Rockets have Beverley and Ariza, , while Harden is still what he was in his first years in the league, an horrible defender, that is adjusting and balance the team.

Im sorry, the Pistons ?
The Blazers last year ?

What of kind of examples are that ?

[Mattya]

No, of teams with such horrible defenders to get better with more experience while keeping everyone around.

The Rockets this season, the Pistons last season, the Blazers, the Raptors. None of those teams traded essential pieces to their team to add defense.

What ?

The Rockets have Beverley and Ariza, , while Harden is still what he was in his first years in the league, an horrible defender, that is adjusting and balance the team.

Im sorry, the Pistons ?
The Blazers last year ?

What of kind of examples are that ?

Examples beyond your comprehension apparently.

[TheProdigy]

No, of teams with such horrible defenders to get better with more experience while keeping everyone around.

I can't even think of a team historically whose top 3 players were 21 years old or younger, so the question is invalid.

I see, so you think if a team with let´s say with:

21 YO James Harden as PG
21 YO Zach Lavine as SG
21 YO Brandon Ingram as SF

You think with experience they would figure out defensibly ?
Instead of doing what EVERY SMART team in the NBA does, which is adjusting.

Please provide an example of one of those SMART NBA TEAMS whose 3 best players were 21 years old or younger and had to trade one of them because they were all awful at defense.

[Mattya]

No players ever improve defensively better trade Towns, Wiggins and LaVine

[Merc_Porto]

For LaVine and Ingram? Sure. Harden chooses not to play defense. Even then his offensive production goes way beyond any defensive flaws he has and on top of that you can always add defense players around a team. As the Rockets did with Beverly, Ariza, and Capella or the Raptors did around Derozan with PJ Tucker, Demarre Carroll, and Serge Ibaka and Biyombo last season. And how the Blazers added defense in free agency with Al Farouq Aminu and through trades for Mo Harkless and Jusuf Nurkic. None of those teams traded a player with Zach LaVine's value to do it. How were those teams dumb? They pretty much did exactly what you are attempting to do(improve defense) in all your terrible trades, but significantly better.

They add players to start, to play big minutes next to Harden´s or Derozan´s.
How you going to do that with Lavine and Wiggins starting together and playing pretty much all the minutes ?

The Raptors adjust was around Derozan, the Rockets adjust was around Harden ? See the diference !!!
People are trying to adjust around Wiggins and Lavine, how ? You cant.

[Merc_Porto]

No players ever improve defensively better trade Towns, Wiggins and LaVine

Nobody said anything like that. That is stupid.

[Mattya]

For LaVine and Ingram? Sure. Harden chooses not to play defense. Even then his offensive production goes way beyond any defensive flaws he has and on top of that you can always add defense players around a team. As the Rockets did with Beverly, Ariza, and Capella or the Raptors did around Derozan with PJ Tucker, Demarre Carroll, and Serge Ibaka and Biyombo last season. And how the Blazers added defense in free agency with Al Farouq Aminu and through trades for Mo Harkless and Jusuf Nurkic. None of those teams traded a player with Zach LaVine's value to do it. How were those teams dumb? They pretty much did exactly what you are attempting to do(improve defense) in all your terrible trades, but significantly better.

They add players to start, to play big minutes next to Harden´s or Derozan´s.
How you going to do that with Lavine and Wiggins starting together and playing pretty much all the minutes ?

The Raptors adjust was around Derozan, the Rockets adjust was around Harden ? See the diference !!!
People are trying to adjust around Wiggins and Lavine, how ? You cant.

Dumb argument. If you think Harden and Derozan were the only bad defenders on those teams, then I'm not going to waste my time with you.

[Mattya]

No players ever improve defensively better trade Towns, Wiggins and LaVine

Nobody said anything like that. That is stupid.

This is literally the only conclusion to the argument that you are making. Can't build a team around multiple bad defenders. But please inform us on how smart your idea to trade LaVine for Parker is. What a fantastic defender we are trading for.

[Mattya]

Wants to trade for defense, offers up the idea to trade for Jabari Parker, and claims his idea is what smart teams are doing.

[TheProdigy]

No players ever improve defensively better trade Towns, Wiggins and LaVine

Nobody said anything like that. That is stupid.

We get it. You just hate LaVine for some reason. No other explanation for you wanting to trade him for Parker, whom is also a terrible defender. We would have the worst front court in the league defensively if we were playing Towns and Parker together.

[Merc_Porto]

Please provide an example of one of those SMART NBA TEAMS whose 3 best players were 21 years old or younger and had to trade one of them because they were all awful at defense.

I remember an OKC team playing James Harden off the bench. And starting Sefolosha.
I remeber an Kyrie - Dion Waiters duo ? What happend there...

Nobody said anyhing about Karl Anthony Towns, why you´re talking about the 3 best players being 21 yo.
Im talking about a team that has 2 horrible perimeter defenders, and no successful team can live with that because there is no memory of such thing. If there is, im still waiting for that example.

And isnt going to be more experience to change that.

Bottom line is, this team needs to adjust, if is with Wiggins or Lavine moving forward i dont know.
But you cant do that with both eating 34-36 MPG per game.

[Worm Guts]

No, of teams with such horrible defenders to get better with more experience while keeping everyone around.

I can't even think of a team historically whose top 3 players were 21 years old or younger, so the question is invalid.

I see, so you think if a team with let´s say with:

21 YO James Harden as PG
21 YO Zach Lavine as SG
21 YO Brandon Ingram as SF

You think with experience they would figure out defensibly ?
Instead of doing what EVERY SMART team in the NBA does, which is adjusting.

It really depends on why you think they are bad at defense. Brandon Ingram obviously inexperienced and needs to gain a lot of weight, but he's also long and fairly athletic so I would assume he's going to get better. The same goes with Towns and Wiggins, although I think Wiggins has some legitimate questions about his effort. Towns and Wiggins were drafted in part because they were expected to develop in to 2 way players. At some point you may decide they'll never become what they were supposed to, but I still think it's early for that.

[Merc_Porto]

Wants to trade for defense, offers up the idea to trade for Jabari Parker, and claims his idea is what smart teams are doing.

I mean, i only talked about Jabari because he can play PF-SF . Lavine plays in a position where Andrew Wiggins can and should play.
The part where smart teams adjust to their best players is a fact.

[Mattya]

Wants to trade for defense, offers up the idea to trade for Jabari Parker, and claims his idea is what smart teams are doing.

I mean, i only talked about Jabari because he can play PF-SF . Lavine plays in a position where Andrew Wiggins can and should play.
The part where smart teams adjust to their best players is a fact.

So lets trade for a power forward that can't defend power forwards to pair with KAT's defense. Then by the time Parker is healthy by the end of next season we would have to hear you complain about or terrible interior defense and start proposing more crappy trades.

[Mattya]

I remember an OKC team playing James Harden off the bench. And starting Sefolosha.
I remeber an Kyrie - Dion Waiters duo ? What happend there...

I'm guessing OKC would very much want James Harden on their team right now.

[TheProdigy]

Please provide an example of one of those SMART NBA TEAMS whose 3 best players were 21 years old or younger and had to trade one of them because they were all awful at defense.

I remember an OKC team playing James Harden off the bench. And starting Sefolosha.
I remeber an Kyrie - Dion Waiters duo ? What happend there...

The problem with OKC wasn't on defense. There weren't enough shots to go around since Westbrook was a black hole when he was younger. Besides, bringing up OKC isn't the best for your argument. How did trading Harden work out for them? Same could happen to us if we trade LaVine (or any of the young guys).

Nobody said anyhing about Karl Anthony Towns, why you´re talking about the 3 best players being 21 yo.
Im talking about a team that has 2 horrible perimeter defenders, and no successful team can live with that because there is no memory of such thing. If there is, im still waiting for that example.

And isnt going to be more experience to change that.

Bottom line is, this team needs to adjust, if is with Wiggins or Lavine moving forward i dont know.
But you cant do that with both eating 34-36 MPG per game.

I believe the reason we're bad defensively is because we have 3 inexperienced guys going up against grown men. Replace Towns with someone like Rudy Gobert, and we would probably have a different outlook on LaVine and Wiggins defense. Same could be said for Towns, if we were to replace LaVine and Wiggins with Tony Allen and Kawhi. Everything is related.

[Merc_Porto]

It really depends on why you think they are bad at defense. Brandon Ingram obviously inexperienced and needs to gain a lot of weight, but he's also long and fairly athletic so I would assume he's going to get better. The same goes with Towns and Wiggins, although I think Wiggins has some legitimate questions about his effort. Towns and Wiggins were drafted in part because they were expected to develop in to 2 way players. At some point you may decide they'll never become what they were supposed to, but I still think it's early for that.

For a reason guys like James Harden, Al Jefferson, Kevin Love or even Jahill Okafor now are projected to be bad defenders and for some of those guys that actually happend (Jefferson, Kevin Love or Harden), im pretty sure everybody agrees that the same is going to happend with Jahill Okafor and IMO Zach Lavine. Gaining weight or experience is not going to change the fact that they are not going to be good defensible. But smart teams can put around them players that will fit them better.

And why that cant be done with Wiggins and Lavine, first they play the same postition.
And signing guys like PJ Tucker or Sefolasha, 2 things have to happend.

1. One of Lavine or Wiggins as 6th man.
2. One of them, or both have to play at least - 10 minutes to make it work.´
3. Both are probably looking for a max conctract.