Trade Ideas thread

[Merc_Porto]

I remember an OKC team playing James Harden off the bench. And starting Sefolosha.
I remeber an Kyrie - Dion Waiters duo ? What happend there...

I'm guessing OKC would very much want James Harden on their team right now.

And Kevin Durant. They didnt start to lose after James Harden was traded.

[Mattya]

I remember an OKC team playing James Harden off the bench. And starting Sefolosha.
I remeber an Kyrie - Dion Waiters duo ? What happend there...

I'm guessing OKC would very much want James Harden on their team right now.

And Kevin Durant. They didnt start to lose after James Harden was traded.

So they lost offense, gained defense and never made it further than they did with Harden? hmm odd you are telling me the defense was the problem though?

[Mattya]

It really depends on why you think they are bad at defense. Brandon Ingram obviously inexperienced and needs to gain a lot of weight, but he's also long and fairly athletic so I would assume he's going to get better. The same goes with Towns and Wiggins, although I think Wiggins has some legitimate questions about his effort. Towns and Wiggins were drafted in part because they were expected to develop in to 2 way players. At some point you may decide they'll never become what they were supposed to, but I still think it's early for that.

For a reason guys like James Harden, Al Jefferson, Kevin Love or even Jahill Okafor now are projected to be bad defenders and for some of those guys that actually happend (Jefferson, Kevin Love or Harden), im pretty sure everybody agrees that the same is going to happend with Jahill Okafor and IMO Zach Lavine. Gaining weight or experience is not going to change the fact that they are not going to be good defensible. But smart teams can put around them players that will fit them better.

And why that cant be done with Wiggins and Lavine, first they play the same postition.
And signing guys like PJ Tucker or Sefolasha, 2 things have to happend.

1. One of Lavine or Wiggins as 6th man.
2. One of them, or both have to play at least - 10 minutes to make it work.´
3. Both are probably looking for a max conctract.

Kevin Love improved enough to be on of the best players on a championship team with other poor defenders on their team. James Harden might win MVP.

Wiggins and LaVine guard the same position currently. When Wiggins and LaVine get stronger that shouldn't be a problem.

[Merc_Porto]

I believe the reason we're bad defensively is because we have 3 inexperienced guys going up against grown men. Replace Towns with someone like Rudy Gobert, and we would probably have a different outlook on LaVine and Wiggins defense. Same could be said for Towns, if we were to replace LaVine and Wiggins with Tony Allen and Kawhi. Everything is related.

So you agree, that adjustiments has to be made. And to make adjustaments you have to sacrifice someone, otherwise you are not going to make adjustaments in this particular Timberwolves roster.
And no, being inexperienced is not the main reason why are they bad defensively.

That is the poing im trying to make, if you think experience is going to solve anything is wrong IMO.

[Merc_Porto]

Kevin Love improved enough to be on of the best players on a championship team with other poor defenders on their team. James Harden might win MVP.

Wiggins and LaVine guard the same position currently. When Wiggins and LaVine get stronger that shouldn't be a problem.

Kevin Love had Lebron James, enough said.
Harden has 2 of the best defenders in the league in the SF and PG postions.
Harden and Love still suck on defense. You dont notice that much because they are around good defenders to make for their mistakes.

[Mattya]

Kevin Love improved enough to be on of the best players on a championship team with other poor defenders on their team. James Harden might win MVP.

Wiggins and LaVine guard the same position currently. When Wiggins and LaVine get stronger that shouldn't be a problem.

Kevin Love had Lebron James, enough said.
Harden has 2 of the best defenders in the league in the SF and PG postions.
Harden and Love still suck on defense. You dont notice that much because they are around good defenders to make for their mistakes.

But you said you can't have multiple bad defenders on the same team? It seems all your examples are just proving you wrong. It seems that all these teams had multiple bad defenders, surrounded them with good defenders and were competitive.

[Mattya]

I believe the reason we're bad defensively is because we have 3 inexperienced guys going up against grown men. Replace Towns with someone like Rudy Gobert, and we would probably have a different outlook on LaVine and Wiggins defense. Same could be said for Towns, if we were to replace LaVine and Wiggins with Tony Allen and Kawhi. Everything is related.

So you agree, that adjustiments has to be made. And to make adjustaments you have to sacrifice someone, otherwise you are not going to make adjustaments in this particular Timberwolves roster.
And no, being inexperienced is not the main reason why are they bad defensively.

That is the poing im trying to make, if you think experience is going to solve anything is wrong IMO.

There are plenty of teams that haven't had to sacrifice a Zach LaVine type player to improve their defense. But those examples went way over your head.

[Merc_Porto]

I believe the reason we're bad defensively is because we have 3 inexperienced guys going up against grown men. Replace Towns with someone like Rudy Gobert, and we would probably have a different outlook on LaVine and Wiggins defense. Same could be said for Towns, if we were to replace LaVine and Wiggins with Tony Allen and Kawhi. Everything is related.

So you agree, that adjustiments has to be made. And to make adjustaments you have to sacrifice someone, otherwise you are not going to make adjustaments in this particular Timberwolves roster.
And no, being inexperienced is not the main reason why are they bad defensively.

That is the poing im trying to make, if you think experience is going to solve anything is wrong IMO.

There are plenty of teams that haven't had to sacrifice a Zach LaVine type player to improve their defense. But those examples went way over your head.

Zach Lavine type of player ?
Again, it's not about Zach, it's about Zach and Wiggins together.

To make adjustments and to get better you havê to sacrifise one of them.

I rather keep Wiggins, but that is me.

[TheProdigy]

I believe the reason we're bad defensively is because we have 3 inexperienced guys going up against grown men. Replace Towns with someone like Rudy Gobert, and we would probably have a different outlook on LaVine and Wiggins defense. Same could be said for Towns, if we were to replace LaVine and Wiggins with Tony Allen and Kawhi. Everything is related.

So you agree, that adjustiments has to be made.

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. If you think players cant get better defensively as they get older, then I dont know what to tell you. I'm not expecting any of them to become all defensive team caliber players, but they dont have to. They're so good offensively that we can afford to surround them with defensive oriented players.

[Mattya]

So you agree, that adjustiments has to be made. And to make adjustaments you have to sacrifice someone, otherwise you are not going to make adjustaments in this particular Timberwolves roster.
And no, being inexperienced is not the main reason why are they bad defensively.

That is the poing im trying to make, if you think experience is going to solve anything is wrong IMO.

There are plenty of teams that haven't had to sacrifice a Zach LaVine type player to improve their defense. But those examples went way over your head.

Zach Lavine type of player ?
Again, it's not about Zach, it's about Zach and Wiggins together.

To make adjustments and to get better you havê to sacrifise one of them.

I rather keep Wiggins, but that is me.

BS. How are the Rockets as successful as they are this year with Harden, Gordon, Williams, and Anderson on their team. How are the Blazers any good? Lillard and McCollum both used to be terrible on defense, and Lillard still is. How is it possible they successful teams in the playoffs when they have had multiple poor defenders? You are telling me the opposite when reality of these "not smart" teams in the playoffs tells me a different story.

[Merc_Porto]

I believe the reason we're bad defensively is because we have 3 inexperienced guys going up against grown men. Replace Towns with someone like Rudy Gobert, and we would probably have a different outlook on LaVine and Wiggins defense. Same could be said for Towns, if we were to replace LaVine and Wiggins with Tony Allen and Kawhi. Everything is related.

So you agree, that adjustiments has to be made.

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. If you think players cant get better defensively as they get older, then I dont know what to tell you. I'm not expecting any of them to become all defensive team caliber players, but they dont have to. They're so good offensively that we can afford to surround them with defensive oriented players.

How we are going to find defensive oriented players when they are starting and playing 36-38 minutes per game ?

Especially with Thibs.

[Mattya]

So you agree, that adjustiments has to be made.

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. If you think players cant get better defensively as they get older, then I dont know what to tell you. I'm not expecting any of them to become all defensive team caliber players, but they dont have to. They're so good offensively that we can afford to surround them with defensive oriented players.

How we are going to find defensive oriented players when they are starting and playing 36-38 minutes per game ?

Especially with Thibs.

There are 48 minutes available at every position. That leaves another 34 to 36 minutes for defensive oriented players on the wing.

[Merc_Porto]

BS. How are the Rockets as successful as they are this year with Harden, Gordon, Williams, and Anderson on their team. How are the Blazers any good? Lillard and McCollum both used to be terrible on defense, and Lillard still is. How is it possible they successful teams in the playoffs when they have had multiple poor defenders? You are telling me the opposite when reality of these "not smart" teams in the playoffs tells me a different story.

Ok, first of all, i dont know why you keep bringing up the Blazers and the Pistons and called them "successful"
They are treadmill teams at best, that is not "successful"
Second, the Rockets plays with Gordon, Williams (off the bench) and Anderson on their team but the star of the team plays with Beverley and Ariza (starters) most of the minutes. And even though the Rockets are good this year, this "live by the 3 die by the 3" mentality is not going to win any championship.

[Merc_Porto]

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. If you think players cant get better defensively as they get older, then I dont know what to tell you. I'm not expecting any of them to become all defensive team caliber players, but they dont have to. They're so good offensively that we can afford to surround them with defensive oriented players.

How we are going to find defensive oriented players when they are starting and playing 36-38 minutes per game ?

Especially with Thibs.

There are 48 minutes available at every position. That leaves another 34 to 36 minutes for defensive oriented players on the wing.

Realistic speaking that is not true at all and you know it.

If Wiggins and Lavine played 36 minutes per night (most likely to happend if Thibs doesnt leave the idea of playing the 2 together), that leaves Kris Dunn at 12 minutes off guard and leaves another 12 minutes for lets say the rookie Isaac in the SF position.

Still, if Thibs dont decide to trade one of them, WIGGINS or Lavine, they still going to play a lot of minutes together, unless, Thibs decides to Give Zach or WIGGINS 24 minutes off the bench. But again, that is not Realistic.

[Mattya]

BS. How are the Rockets as successful as they are this year with Harden, Gordon, Williams, and Anderson on their team. How are the Blazers any good? Lillard and McCollum both used to be terrible on defense, and Lillard still is. How is it possible they successful teams in the playoffs when they have had multiple poor defenders? You are telling me the opposite when reality of these "not smart" teams in the playoffs tells me a different story.

Ok, first of all, i dont know why you keep bringing up the Blazers and the Pistons and called them "successful"
They are treadmill teams at best, that is not "successful"
Second, the Rockets plays with Gordon, Williams (off the bench) and Anderson on their team but the star of the team plays with Beverley and Ariza (starters) most of the minutes. And even though the Rockets are good this year, this "live by the 3 die by the 3" mentality is not going to win any championship.

The Blazers have been consistently competitive and have always found ways to improve and now with Nurkic look legit again after a slow start. The Pistons were in the playoffs last season and were very competitive with the Cavs. If it weren't for Reggie Jackson that team likely still makes the playoffs this season. I didn't bring the Pistons up multiple times either. You claim that you can't have multiple poor defensive players on the floor at the same time. If you don't think Harden, Williams and Gordon play together you are even more confused than I predicted.

[Mattya]

How we are going to find defensive oriented players when they are starting and playing 36-38 minutes per game ?

Especially with Thibs.

There are 48 minutes available at every position. That leaves another 34 to 36 minutes for defensive oriented players on the wing.

Realistic speaking that is not true at all and you know it.

If Wiggins and Lavine played 36 minutes per night (most likely to happend if Thibs doesnt leave the idea of playing the 2 together), that leaves Kris Dunn at 12 minutes off guard and leaves another 12 minutes for lets say the rookie Isaac in the SF position.

Still, if Thibs dont decide to trade one of them, WIGGINS or Lavine, they still going to play a lot of minutes together, unless, Thibs decides to Give Zach or WIGGINS 24 minutes off the bench. But again, that is not Realistic.

Realistically you might want to try mathing again.

[Mattya]

You also get real players and I would expect those minutes for Wiggins and LaVine to go down.

[Mattya]

I would expect LaVine plays on a minutes restriction next year as well.

[Merc_Porto]

Realistically you might want to try mathing again.

Maybe, let me check again:

36+12 = 48
36+12 = 48

Basketball game has 4 quarters of 12 minutes each, 12x4 = 48 minutes.

Actually, i got right. You can always believe that Thibs is going to play Wiggins and Lavine 32 Minutes or even 34, but is Thibs,you know.

And even if they play 32 minutes per game.
I'm still wondering where we going to find 34 to 36 minutes for defensive oriented players on the wing.

48+48 = 96
32+32 = 64
96-64 = 28

28 minutes left, i guess some of those minutes is going to Dunn.

[Mattya]

Realistically you might want to try mathing again.

Maybe, let me check again:

36+12 = 48
36+12 = 48

Basketball game has 4 quarters of 12 minutes each, 12x4 = 48 minutes.

Actually, i got right. You can always believe that Thibs is going to play Wiggins and Lavine 32 Minutes or even 34, but is Thibs,you know.

And even if they play 32 minutes per game.
I'm still wondering where we going to find 34 to 36 minutes for defensive oriented players on the wing.

48+48 = 96
32+32 = 64
96-64 = 28

28 minutes left, i guess some of those minutes is going to Dunn.

Which is role player minutes. So what is the matter with 24-28 minutes per game?