Political Roundtable Part XIII

[AFM]

So she's kind of an idiot savant journalist.

We have an idiot savant President, so...

In what area has he been a savant?

Running a Presidential campaign, apparently.

[AFM]

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Read on Twitter

[dckingsfan]

We have an idiot savant President, so...

In what area has he been a savant?

Running a Presidential campaign, apparently.

Ow! That hurt - way too funny on so many levels.

[closg00]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/20170330-russia-actively-involved-french-election-warns-us-senate-intelligence-chief

LePen up in French polls, Russia hacking claims ensue. This is getting ridiculous.

I take it you didn't watch any of the Senate hearings of Russiagate? The Russians have election interference campaigns underway throughout Europe.


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[TGW]

Flynn snitching?

These hoes ain't loyal.

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[FAH1223]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/20170330-russia-actively-involved-french-election-warns-us-senate-intelligence-chief

LePen up in French polls, Russia hacking claims ensue. This is getting ridiculous.

I take it you didn't watch any of the Senate hearings of Russiagate? The Russians have election interference campaigns underway throughout Europe.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

All over Europe?

Where's the evidence? Le Pen has taken Russian money and its no secret she wants stronger ties with Russia, going to Moscow last week.

And Russian media has put far right parties on air. No secret there.

But the far right lost in the Austria Presidential Election. Gert Wilders didn't win in the Netherlands. Macron or Melanchon or Hamon or Fillon all defeat Le Pen in the 2nd round by double digits.

In Germany, the AfD isn't going to do as well and Merkel's challenge is coming from the LEFT... with the prospect of Martin Schulz becoming the new Chancellor and he's been in Brussels for the last 5 years.

The CIA hacked the 2012 French Election campaigns of Sarkozy, Le Pen, and Hollande. Countries hack all the damn time.

[FAH1223]

Glad some Democrats are doing something other than Russiagate. Finally Rep. Conyers' Medicare For All bill which he's introduced every Congress since 2003 is gaining steam.

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Watch on YouTube

[dckingsfan]

Glad some Democrats are doing something other than Russiagate. Finally Rep. Conyers' Medicare For All bill which he's introduced every Congress since 2003 is gaining steam.

Looking forward to the CBO score...

[sfam]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/20170330-russia-actively-involved-french-election-warns-us-senate-intelligence-chief

LePen up in French polls, Russia hacking claims ensue. This is getting ridiculous.

I take it you didn't watch any of the Senate hearings of Russiagate? The Russians have election interference campaigns underway throughout Europe.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

All over Europe?

Where's the evidence? Le Pen has taken Russian money and its no secret she wants stronger ties with Russia, going to Moscow last week.

And Russian media has put far right parties on air. No secret there.

But the far right lost in the Austria Presidential Election. Gert Wilders didn't win in the Netherlands. Macron or Melanchon or Hamon or Fillon all defeat Le Pen in the 2nd round by double digits.

In Germany, the AfD isn't going to do as well and Merkel's challenge is coming from the LEFT... with the prospect of Martin Schulz becoming the new Chancellor and he's been in Brussels for the last 5 years.

The CIA hacked the 2012 French Election campaigns of Sarkozy, Le Pen, and Hollande. Countries hack all the damn time.

OK, so this is new. Are you stating the CIA tried to influence the French election? Would love some links to that.

Again, Russia can interfere with an election but not result in getting it overturned, but if you follow what Russia did here in the US, they have a lot of different tools - hacking is merely one. Far greater seems to be their ability to flood social media with bots and paid trolls. They apparently did this against Trump's opponents in the Republican primary as well.

I really don't understand why people aren't concerned about this. Influencing foreign elections is far worse than hacking into accounts. The US had done this in the past in Central and South America, but I think those days are as long past as the Soviet Union.

[sfam]

Read on Twitter

Don't mean for this to become the Louise Mensch thread, but she ended up being right about Ellis being the source for Nunes.
I still won't post anything of hers in this thread though.

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FakeNews obviously.

This whole episode, which started as a distraction from Russia-gate, has ballooned into absolute craziness. We now literally have intelligence being collected for political purposes - to find something, somewhere, somehow that in some way exonerates Trumps asinine and dishonest attacks on Obama.

This really is Inspector Clouseau level operations. The only way this stream of idiocy is possible seems very much the same as benevolent dictators staff everywhere - they are given absurd orders that MUST be followed out - "find some support for my statements" for instance. That they had to launder the intelligence through Nunes is just really bizarre. Why not just say, "Hey, look what we found?"

The answer is of course there was no "there" there, so Nunes had to do this fictional press conference to "claim" he had viable information that in some way supported the President. They still haven't shown anything. Stories are that its incidental collection - meaning foreigners talking about Trump - all they did was mention the dude's name apparently.

There is more corruption and scandal in 60 days of Trump's Presidency that already surpasses the entire 8 years of Obama. We already have multiple failed military attempts resulting in hundreds of civilian deaths and a US soldier, resignation of cabinet members, recusal from others, a cabinet official caught lying before congress (EPA head) and now offers of testimony to "tell stories" in exchange for immunity.

We haven't even gotten 100 days!!! We don't even get to discuss Trump openly attacking the Freedom caucus. Crazy!

[dckingsfan]

I take it you didn't watch any of the Senate hearings of Russiagate? The Russians have election interference campaigns underway throughout Europe.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

All over Europe?

Where's the evidence? Le Pen has taken Russian money and its no secret she wants stronger ties with Russia, going to Moscow last week.

And Russian media has put far right parties on air. No secret there.

But the far right lost in the Austria Presidential Election. Gert Wilders didn't win in the Netherlands. Macron or Melanchon or Hamon or Fillon all defeat Le Pen in the 2nd round by double digits.

In Germany, the AfD isn't going to do as well and Merkel's challenge is coming from the LEFT... with the prospect of Martin Schulz becoming the new Chancellor and he's been in Brussels for the last 5 years.

The CIA hacked the 2012 French Election campaigns of Sarkozy, Le Pen, and Hollande. Countries hack all the damn time.

OK, so this is new. Are you stating the CIA tried to influence the French election? Would love some links to that.

Wait, what? Read Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA - this isn't a grey area for the CIA - it has been sanctioned for many administrations (both Ds and Rs).

And Russia has tried many times - and failed. This is the first time they have had some relative success.

[sfam]

Read on Twitter

I wonder if they accept. I bet not. If Flynn is in real danger of being prosecuted, he better have the goods on Trump in his profer. If not, I'm guessing they refuse.

[sfam]

All over Europe?

Where's the evidence? Le Pen has taken Russian money and its no secret she wants stronger ties with Russia, going to Moscow last week.

And Russian media has put far right parties on air. No secret there.

But the far right lost in the Austria Presidential Election. Gert Wilders didn't win in the Netherlands. Macron or Melanchon or Hamon or Fillon all defeat Le Pen in the 2nd round by double digits.

In Germany, the AfD isn't going to do as well and Merkel's challenge is coming from the LEFT... with the prospect of Martin Schulz becoming the new Chancellor and he's been in Brussels for the last 5 years.

The CIA hacked the 2012 French Election campaigns of Sarkozy, Le Pen, and Hollande. Countries hack all the damn time.

OK, so this is new. Are you stating the CIA tried to influence the French election? Would love some links to that.

Wait, what? Read Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA - this isn't a grey area for the CIA - it has been sanctioned for many administrations (both Ds and Rs).

And Russia has tried many times - and failed. This is the first time they have had some relative success.

The US tried to influence the 2012 French election? Is this what Legacy of Ashes says?

EDIT: the book appears written in 2007, so I'm guessing NO on this.

[dckingsfan]

OK, so this is new. Are you stating the CIA tried to influence the French election? Would love some links to that.

Wait, what? Read Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA - this isn't a grey area for the CIA - it has been sanctioned for many administrations (both Ds and Rs).

And Russia has tried many times - and failed. This is the first time they have had some relative success.

The US tried to influence the 2012 French election? Is this what Legacy of Ashes says?

EDIT: the book appears written in 2007, so I'm guessing NO on this.

Nope, more of a history.

It was something that the CIA did actively since the end of WWII with no apologies.

I would be shocked if we DIDN'T have some involvement in every European election. The other question is - did we haven any kind of influence?

[sfam]

Pretty interesting Op-Ed on health care by Fareed Zakaria

While producing a CNN documentary on health-care systems around the globe, I was particularly struck by the experience of Taiwan, another free-market haven. In 1995, 41 percent of its population was uninsured and the country had very poor health outcomes. The government decided to canvass the world for the best ideas before instituting a new framework. It chose Medicare for all, a single government payer, with multiple private providers. The results are astonishing. Taiwan has achieved some of the best outcomes in the world while paying only 7 percent of its gross domestic product on health care (compared with 18 percent in the United States). I asked William Hsiao, an economist who helped devise the country’s model, what lessons they took, if any, from the United States. “You can learn what not to do from the United States rather than learn what to do,” he replied.

Americans often assume that despite its costs, American health care provides better services than others. We often hear about the waiting time for care in other countries. But according to the Commonwealth Fund, among industrialized countries the United States is in the middle of the pack for wait times, behind even Britain . Moreover, one of the world’s leading experts, Uwe Reinhardt of Princeton, has found that Americans use less care than the average for developed countries when it comes to things such as seeing a doctor and spending time in the hospital. The problem with the free market is that there is little profit in prevention and lots in crisis care.

[sfam]

Wait, what? Read Legacy of Ashes: The History of the CIA - this isn't a grey area for the CIA - it has been sanctioned for many administrations (both Ds and Rs).

And Russia has tried many times - and failed. This is the first time they have had some relative success.

The US tried to influence the 2012 French election? Is this what Legacy of Ashes says?

EDIT: the book appears written in 2007, so I'm guessing NO on this.

Nope, more of a history.

It was something that the CIA did actively since the end of WWII with no apologies.

I would be shocked if we DIDN'T have some involvement in every European election. The other question is - did we haven any kind of influence?

When you say "involvement" why exactly do you mean? Similar things like Russia has done - meaning literally attempting to choose the candidate of our choice? If so, I'd be shocked beyond words if we did anything of the sort.

Have there been reports of us influencing an election anywhere since the fall of the Soviet Union? Any evidence at all? Prior to then, it was pretty black and white -we backed the murderous democracy dictators over the communist thugs. I'm very familiar with our escapades in the 80s, but I honestly would be very shocked if we still engaged in this sort of act.

I see hacking for intelligence as very different from attempting to influence the outcome of an election.

[dckingsfan]

Pretty interesting Op-Ed on health care by Fareed Zakaria

While producing a CNN documentary on health-care systems around the globe, I was particularly struck by the experience of Taiwan, another free-market haven. In 1995, 41 percent of its population was uninsured and the country had very poor health outcomes. The government decided to canvass the world for the best ideas before instituting a new framework. It chose Medicare for all, a single government payer, with multiple private providers. The results are astonishing. Taiwan has achieved some of the best outcomes in the world while paying only 7 percent of its gross domestic product on health care (compared with 18 percent in the United States). I asked William Hsiao, an economist who helped devise the country’s model, what lessons they took, if any, from the United States. “You can learn what not to do from the United States rather than learn what to do,” he replied.

Americans often assume that despite its costs, American health care provides better services than others. We often hear about the waiting time for care in other countries. But according to the Commonwealth Fund, among industrialized countries the United States is in the middle of the pack for wait times, behind even Britain . Moreover, one of the world’s leading experts, Uwe Reinhardt of Princeton, has found that Americans use less care than the average for developed countries when it comes to things such as seeing a doctor and spending time in the hospital. The problem with the free market is that there is little profit in prevention and lots in crisis care.

What we learned from the US is not to let our entitlement costs run amok. That way we have a chance to provide reasonable healthcare at a reasonable cost. We are lucky that our doctors aren't as expensive, that we can negotiate costs of drugs, that you can't litigate malpractice in our country, that our doctors aren't on a fee-for-service basis, that we don't have to have expensive end-of-life care and we don't give you the option of things like MRIs.

Just helping with the quote sfam

[dckingsfan]

The US tried to influence the 2012 French election? Is this what Legacy of Ashes says?

EDIT: the book appears written in 2007, so I'm guessing NO on this.

Nope, more of a history.

It was something that the CIA did actively since the end of WWII with no apologies.

I would be shocked if we DIDN'T have some involvement in every European election. The other question is - did we haven any kind of influence?

When you say "involvement" why exactly do you mean? Similar things like Russia has done - meaning literally attempting to choose the candidate of our choice? If so, I'd be shocked beyond words if we did anything of the sort.

Have there been reports of us influencing an election anywhere since the fall of the Soviet Union? Any evidence at all? Prior to then, it was pretty black and white -we backed the murderous democracy dictators over the communist thugs. I'm very familiar with our escapades in the 80s, but I honestly would be very shocked if we still engaged in this sort of act.

I see hacking for intelligence as very different from attempting to influence the outcome of an election.

You are kidding right - remember that Reagan brought down the Soviet Union. We then influenced who would become president until we couldn't. Wow, you really think the CIA wasn't over there during the elections? Of course they were...

Remember - this was approved behavior by administrations since Roosevelt - it isn't something that we said - "oh, we shouldn't be doing this" and still did.

[sfam]

Nope, more of a history.

It was something that the CIA did actively since the end of WWII with no apologies.

I would be shocked if we DIDN'T have some involvement in every European election. The other question is - did we haven any kind of influence?

When you say "involvement" why exactly do you mean? Similar things like Russia has done - meaning literally attempting to choose the candidate of our choice? If so, I'd be shocked beyond words if we did anything of the sort.

Have there been reports of us influencing an election anywhere since the fall of the Soviet Union? Any evidence at all? Prior to then, it was pretty black and white -we backed the murderous democracy dictators over the communist thugs. I'm very familiar with our escapades in the 80s, but I honestly would be very shocked if we still engaged in this sort of act.

I see hacking for intelligence as very different from attempting to influence the outcome of an election.

You are kidding right - remember that Reagan brought down the Soviet Union. We then influenced who would become president until we couldn't. Wow, you really think the CIA wasn't over there during the elections? Of course they were...

Remember - this was approved behavior by administrations since Roosevelt - it isn't something that we said - "oh, we shouldn't be doing this" and still did.

Right, so again, I've already mentioned I was very familiar with what we did during the cold war. You seem to think this cascades seamlessly through today. That sounds like complete BS. Again, when everything is black and white, its easy to pick a side, even if they are a murderous thug. That is not the case today, certainly not in France.

Lets try a third time. Yes, the CIA "was over there" gathering intelligence for decision makers in DC. This is DIFFERENT from running active operations in France and in cyberspace to influence the outcome of the election. YOU are kidding if you think I buy that wholesale without evidence. That really is crazy.

[AFM]

Sfam: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-16/wikileaks-exposes-cia-involvement-french-2012-presidential-election

That's all I'm aware of