Ricky Rubio is Wolves second best player without any doubt.

[PharmD]

33 points and 11 assist tonight. Hate him all you want, he is having the greatest season of his career so far.

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Which is nuts considering he was "out of the league" bad for the first 7 weeks of the season. He's just gradually gotten better and better week by week and now he's playing great.

[UcanUwill]

That pump fake is elite

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[zimpy27]

Hard not to support this guy, he plays to his strengths, plays hard and plays the right way.

[Foye]

33 points and 11 assist tonight. Hate him all you want, he is having the greatest season of his career so far.

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Which is nuts considering he was "out of the league" bad for the first 7 weeks of the season. He's just gradually gotten better and better week by week and now he's playing great.

Tbh his horrible play early in the season was probably due to off-court troubles with his family. Glad he seems to take this as a challenge to return stronger than before.

[naabzor]

last layup was NASTY!

[PharmD]

33 points and 11 assist tonight. Hate him all you want, he is having the greatest season of his career so far.

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Which is nuts considering he was "out of the league" bad for the first 7 weeks of the season. He's just gradually gotten better and better week by week and now he's playing great.

Tbh his horrible play early in the season was probably due to off-court troubles with his family. Glad he seems to take this as a challenge to return stronger than before.

Yeah, and he had the ball taken out of his hands too much. But it's probably a bit of chicken and the egg there (he's sucking so Thibs trusts him less, leading to him sucking more, leading to Thibs trusting him less, etc). It's possible that dealing with his mother dying and stuff he never picked up a basketball all offseason so that's why he was sofa king terrible to start the year. Also, he injured his elbow in the 2nd game and missed a couple of weeks. Maybe he was hurt too.

[LastNameEver]

Since the All-Star break Rubio is shooting 46/44/91. These are Steph Curry MVP numbers.

No they're not. The volume and workload while maintaining that efficiency is not even close.

Rubio performs like a starting caliber PG and everybody loses their minds.

[Sugarless]

33 points and 11 assist tonight. Hate him all you want, he is having the greatest season of his career so far.

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Which is nuts considering he was "out of the league" bad for the first 7 weeks of the season.

See, this is why you have to be careful with your hyperboles, because it is the type of thing an outsider may read from a Timberwolves fan and consider it to be true, just because of the logo below the avatar. Next thing they do is come with the atrocious Coach Nick video.

To be clear: Ricky was no way out of the league bad for the first 7 weeks of the season, he just couldn't play as Ricky Rubio since Thibodeau had different plans for him and the team, which included guys like him and Wiggins somehow becoming people they are not and have never been. Sounds like a rather dumb idea and a weird way to go about your new team in your first weeks as their coach, right?

Rubio was excellent defensively as soon as he recovered fully from the elbow injury, and he was thrown out of the offense by Thibs' micromanaging and stubborness trying to mold Wiggins into something he is not ready to be (not even close), which meant that half the time he had one of the top-3 playmakers in the league sitting on a corner, despite him never being a good outside shooter. Guy had a 12% usage rate till early January, FFS, along with career lows in time of possession, drives per possession, dribbles... you name it.

Just picture the situation with a different player. Think of taking the ball out of Chris Paul's hands and sending him to play center, bang against 270 lbs guys every night, post them up trying to score some points and box them out for rebounds. Then say Chris Paul is out of the league bad when it doesn't work and he's posting mediocre numbers across the board. As excessive as it sounds, it's still not that far from the equivalent of parking Rubio on a corner, considering his skillset.

There was a bunch of us claiming for a change for the first couple of months of the season, while the losses kept piling up for the Wolves with their 6-18 start, and as soon as Thibs let Ricky run the team (first occasionally, finally for good) the results were there both for Rubio AND the Timberwolves. Many didn't want to aknowledge it then, and some still won't (part of it was trying to defend the new highly regarded coach, part was picking on the guy who's not thought of as part of what some had the audicity to call the "Big 3"). But the numbers are there and it's been proven time and again over the season. It's as simple as that and there's no reason to keep pretending like it didn't happen.

[The_Hater]

Trading him at the deadline never made sense, especially those ridiculous DRose rumours, Rubio was the only player on the team who played defense and passed the ball to the top players. No surprise that Towns reached another level when Lavine went down and Rubio started handling the ball more. How many shoot first player who don't play defense does a roster really need?

[shangrila]

33 points and 11 assist tonight. Hate him all you want, he is having the greatest season of his career so far.

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Which is nuts considering he was "out of the league" bad for the first 7 weeks of the season.

See, this is why you have to be careful with your hyperboles, because it is the type of thing an outsider may read from a Timberwolves fan and consider it to be true, just because of the logo below the avatar. Next thing they do is come with the atrocious Coach Nick video.

To be clear: Ricky was no way out of the league bad for the first 7 weeks of the season, he just couldn't play as Ricky Rubio since Thibodeau had different plans for him and the team, which included guys like him and Wiggins somehow becoming people they are not and have never been. Sounds like a rather dumb idea and a weird way to go about your new team in your first weeks as their coach, right?

Rubio was excellent defensively as soon as he recovered fully from the elbow injury, and he was thrown out of the offense by Thibs' micromanaging and stubborness trying to mold Wiggins into something he is not ready to be (not even close), which meant that half the time he had one of the top-3 playmakers in the league sitting on a corner, despite him never being a good outside shooter. Guy had a 12% usage rate till early January, FFS, along with career lows in time of possesion, drives per possesion, dribbles... you name it.

Just picture the situation with a different player. Think of taking the ball out of Chris Paul's hands and sending him to play center, bang against 270 lbs guys every night, post them up trying to score some points and box them out for rebounds. Then say Chris Paul is out of the league bad when it doesn't work and he's posting mediocre numbers across the board. As excessive as it sounds, it's still not that far from the equivalent of parking Rubio on a corner, considering his skillset.

There was a bunch of us claiming for a change for the first couple of months of the season, while the losses kept piling up for the Wolves with their 6-18 start, and as soon as Thibs let Ricky run the team (first occasionally, finally for good) the results were there both for Rubio AND the Timberwolves. Many didn't want to aknowledge it then, and some still won't (part of it trying was trying to defend the new highly regarded coach, part was picking on the guy who's not thought of as part of what some had the audicity to call the "Big 3"). But the numbers are there and it's been proven time and again over the season. It's as simple as that and there's no reason to keep pretending like it didn't happen.

Uh, no, I'd say that's pretty far from being equivalent. Chris Paul changing positions is not at all equal to asking Rubio to stand in a corner and hit 3s at a decent clip. Not even remotely similar.

And this is the problem with Rubio, ever since he joined the league really; his skillset has been so narrow that doing anything other than letting him completely dominate the ball on offence renders him useless. He can't hit 3s, he can't hit layups, he can't post up against other PGs, he doesn't make off ball cuts, etc. Once the ball has left his hands he might as well go chill out in the front row because he's not going to be doing much else. I mean, notice how far out of your way you had to go to come up with a scenario where another good player was similarly handicapped?

Don't get me wrong, he's playing very well lately and I hope it continues. But to act like his early season struggles were entirely on Thibs is just too much. He was bad early on, some of it from the role Thibs gave him, some of it from his own struggles.

[F Saunders]

Just picture the situation with a different player. Think of taking the ball out of Chris Paul's hands and sending him to play center, bang against 270 lbs guys every night, post them up trying to score some points and box them out for rebounds. Then say Chris Paul is out of the league bad when it doesn't work and he's posting mediocre numbers across the board. As excessive as it sounds, it's still not that far from the equivalent of parking Rubio on a corner, considering his skillset.

Uh, no, I'd say that's pretty far from being equivalent. Chris Paul changing positions is not at all equal to asking Rubio to stand in a corner and hit 3s at a decent clip. Not even remotely similar.

And this is the problem with Rubio, ever since he joined the league really; his skillset has been so narrow that doing anything other than letting him completely dominate the ball on offence renders him useless. He can't hit 3s, he can't hit layups, he can't post up against other PGs, he doesn't make off ball cuts, etc. Once the ball has left his hands he might as well go chill out in the front row because he's not going to be doing much else. I mean, notice how far out of your way you had to go to come up with a scenario where another good player was similarly handicapped?

Don't get me wrong, he's playing very well lately and I hope it continues. But to act like his early season struggles were entirely on Thibs is just too much. He was bad early on, some of it from the role Thibs gave him, some of it from his own struggles.

I agree with the comparison being a bit of the reach, but I don't think it's too difficult to come up with a similar scenerio. Playing Rubio at SG, which in a sense, was how he was being used, is like playing Lavine at PG full time. Putting him in this role, you're emphasizing his weaknesses, and taking away a lot of his strengths.

But as you said, with Rubio "once the ball has left his hands he might as well go chill out in the front row," and I do think this sentiment is true, because despite not being a great shooter, the ball would often leave his hands and go to a teammate for an open shot, allowing him to "sit back and chill".

[moss_is_1]

Rubio performs like a starting caliber PG and everybody loses their minds.

He's been a starting level PG his whole career. Now he's playing like a top 10 pg every night (and outperforms the other teams pg nearly every game).

[King-]

Wow, he got drafted so young that I didn't even realize he's only 26.

I think he's underrated, can you imagine him on a team like the Spurs? Man, he would be awesome and so fun to watch with Kawhi/LMA

[leolozon]

So, I guess that's officially it for the Rubio Vs Jennings narrative that happened during their draft...

[Sugarless]

Uh, no, I'd say that's pretty far from being equivalent. Chris Paul changing positions is not at all equal to asking Rubio to stand in a corner and hit 3s at a decent clip. Not even remotely similar.

And this is the problem with Rubio, ever since he joined the league really; his skillset has been so narrow that doing anything other than letting him completely dominate the ball on offence renders him useless. He can't hit 3s, he can't hit layups, he can't post up against other PGs, he doesn't make off ball cuts, etc. Once the ball has left his hands he might as well go chill out in the front row because he's not going to be doing much else. I mean, notice how far out of your way you had to go to come up with a scenario where another good player was similarly handicapped?

Don't get me wrong, he's playing very well lately and I hope it continues. But to act like his early season struggles were entirely on Thibs is just too much. He was bad early on, some of it from the role Thibs gave him, some of it from his own struggles.

LOL. I didn't *have to* go that far to present a similar scenario, I chose to. Nice try though.

It's absurd to say that Rubio is useless without the ball in his hands just because he hasn't been a reliable scorer through his career. And this is a problem we see each and every day in the Wolves board, year after year, with a group of you. It's made debating anything completely pointless, whether it's about Ricky, Wiggins, KAT, LaVine... you name it. First of, you're taking half the game, which is defense, out of the equation, which is foolish to a fault, and it's even worse when it comes from a Timberwolves fan, considering how Minnesota's defense has sucked for years and how the Wolves keep the longest running playoff drought in the league. Then you're forgetting about basically every aspect of an offense that doesn't count as an assist or a made shot.

Rubio is often in motion so he can draw a defender to a certain place (cause no, nobody is letting him run around the court just forgetting about him cause he's not a scorer), receive a hand-off from a big like Dieng, or give Wiggins an out when he picks up his dribble, even if he then passes the ball and doesn't hold onto it, just to keep the offense moving. That's not dominating an offense, but it's also not sitting someone in a corner like these are the Spurs in the mid 2000s and he's a 36 year old Bruce Bowen. Then you have him setting screens for Wiggins (and doing a damned good job at it), which is extremely common when they're both operating at the top of the key while one big stays inside and the other (usually Gorgui) goes to a corner. He now is once again able to position everyone into the offense (since Thibs is not calling the plays anymore) even when he doesn't have the ball, as he's always directing guys not just on defense but on both ends of the court (of course you would have to pay attention to see that and understand what you can do on the floor to lead a team beyond scoring, which plenty of people don't). There's also this thing called offensive rebounding, where he's one of the best in the league (currently 6th among starting PGs in OREB%) and often comes away with clutch extra possessions.

There's a ton of things that go into a basketball game in both ends of the floor, a lot of things happening all the time, but unfortunately for a lot of people it all comes down to what happens on one end, and then you reduce it to passing (or better yet, assists), shooting (or rather scoring averages), and rebounding (if you're talking about a big guy, otherwise everybody knows it's not really that important).

That's an extremely shortsighted take on this sport, but at this point I guess it is what it is. Just don't expect to be right about it.

PS: One other thing about Ricky needing to be ball dominant (which is laughable if you ever saw his impact under Adelman). Thibodeau putting the ball in the hands of a different player wasn't the problem. His ISO heavy sets, with Wiggins dominating the ball half the time, stagnating the offense with his inability to run a play or create anything for others, was the key. When you top that with giving strictly a shooting role to a non-shooting player, you have yourself a recipe for disaster. That start of the season cost the Wolves the chance to fight for the playoffs, and it cost them to throw Ricky's value down the drain before the deadline. There's no other way around that.

[2Mas]

Rubio's weaknesses are very real, so I understand the haters. But he's beyond elite at the things he's good at. He's a transcendent passer. He's an elite defensive point guard. The biggest question is his shooting/finishing so bad that teams will be able to neuter him in the playoffs. Until then, I cringe when i see trade rumours involving Rubio for (insert mediocre point guard who can shoot here).

Just having a true floor manager is so helpful out there alone. Im a big Rondo guy, so i'm with you. Seeing the floor the way Rubio does isn't easy.

Agreed he does struggle with the jumper. but for all the things he does well it doesn't way him down too badly.

A lot of ppl hated on Rondo cause the big 3 made Rondo. Yeah sure. But Rondo extended their careers. He put them in positions where they can succeed. Whether that's getting the ball to them on the break earlier so they can take 1 dribble & gather themselves, or hitting them where they like to catch so they don't have to readjust to shoot the ball.

It almost like Rubio's doing the same thing on the other end. He's helping the young guys learn what they like & what's good for them. He's good for them. Esp for Dunn who's more athletic. If he can learn from Rubio's passing iq & floor game, he could be for real.

[Duke4life831]

Rubio was always the perfect example of a guy that just needed a jumper to be an elite PG. To me he is the best passer in the NBA, hes a really good defender as well, he just needed that jumper to complete his game. I know his 3pt shot has started to fall recently but I think another thing to look at is his jump in 2pt%, his career high was 39% and this year its 45%. He has also been money from 10ft to the 3pt line as well.

When you shot as bad as he has in the past, teams were able to just sag off of him and it really hurt the rest of his game like his passing. But now you see what type of player he can be when his shot is falling. He can be a terror offensively because now that teams have to start kind of respecting that jump shot, hes able to find the holes in defenses better.

I really really hope his shooting stays. If it does then the league just added another elite PG. Lets remember that he is still only 26 years old.

[Johnny Firpo]

Rubio performs like a starting caliber PG and everybody loses their minds.

You are clueless. He is 11th in RPM this year, was 5th last year, 11th the year before, 9th before that. Defensively he led the league in DRPM one year, was 2nd in another, almost always in the Top 5. He is clearly top 10 at his position, but casual fans can't comprehend it because he has an unorthodox game with a big weakness. If that weakness turns out to be not a weakness anymore, he could be top 5 at his positon. One of the most underrated players in the league for sure.

[YourBuddy]

Rubio did play poorly at the beginning of the season. I'm not sure how people can put all the blame of that on Thibs for his role on offense. Rubio was still shooting horribly(and was turning down open shots even more often), turning it over at a higher rate and his defense wasn't as good to start the season. Teams weren't even close to defending him in any scoring situations. A majority of his shots would be considered at least open and he still wasn't shooting well. Then he started to play better(turnover rate went back down and defense improved to his usual expectations). Then his usage started to increase. Then he started to shoot slightly better. Then LaVine went down and Rubio's usage increased again. Now his shooting percentages have gone through the roof and teams have to respect his ability to score. It is odd to see people say "I told you so" now when pretty much the only legitimate criticism posters have ever made was his shooting percentages. Now he is shooting better and the team is playing as well offensively as they ever had despite LaVine and Bjelica being injured, Shabazz slumping, and the general lack of scorers outside of their core.

[PharmD]

33 points and 11 assist tonight. Hate him all you want, he is having the greatest season of his career so far.

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Which is nuts considering he was "out of the league" bad for the first 7 weeks of the season.

See, this is why you have to be careful with your hyperboles, because it is the type of thing an outsider may read from a Timberwolves fan and consider it to be true, just because of the logo below the avatar. Next thing they do is come with the atrocious Coach Nick video.

To be clear: Ricky was no way out of the league bad for the first 7 weeks of the season,

It's not hyperbole, it's an accurate account of what happened. Rubio stunk to high heaven to start the year. It was by far the worst he'd ever played.