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Game 75: Orlando Magic (27-47) vs OKC Thunder (42-31) 7PM ET

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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Game 75: Orlando Magic (27-47) vs OKC Thunder (42-31) 7PM ET 

Post#381 » by cedric76 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:19 pm

Zmill wrote:
cedric76 wrote:
drsd wrote:In this game I am sad to be a Magic fan.

To be fair, this board is acting as bad as the crowd last night.
Hard to find die hard magic fans that want to see this team win every game
Blue_and_Whte wrote:In before Vuc and Fournier are blamed for AG's lack of rebounding.


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Real die hard fans are out here rooting for their team to lose

Lol yeah


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Re: Game 75: Orlando Magic (27-47) vs OKC Thunder (42-31) 7PM ET 

Post#382 » by fendilim » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:41 am

SOUL wrote:
fendilim wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:Well Evan WAS having a good game. Then he started thinking he was Kobe again. Oh well... helps us.

Well to be fair, him and tross hve been did it tonight. But tross isnt getting the blame?


The blame for what? Hitting shots?

Ross didn't do it at the end of the game, he started taking bad ones when we were down 6 in OT. Big difference.
you know he has taken some questionable 3s even before this game. Evan just gets the blame.

None of this would matter though when we get a real go-to guy. But I dont see why people blame him so much. He is the number one option of this team, even FV have said so. If he thinks Evan has been taking those bad shots, he would have already given that role to someone else.

Its damn you do, damn you dont.
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Re: Game 75: Orlando Magic (27-47) vs OKC Thunder (42-31) 7PM ET 

Post#383 » by MagicStarwipe » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:18 am

fendilim wrote:
SOUL wrote:
fendilim wrote:Well to be fair, him and tross hve been did it tonight. But tross isnt getting the blame?


The blame for what? Hitting shots?

Ross didn't do it at the end of the game, he started taking bad ones when we were down 6 in OT. Big difference.
you know he has taken some questionable 3s even before this game. Evan just gets the blame.

None of this would matter though when we get a real go-to guy. But I dont see why people blame him so much. He is the number one option of this team, even FV have said so. If he thinks Evan has been taking those bad shots, he would have already given that role to someone else.

Its damn you do, damn you dont.

Even Vogel has talked about Evan having to make better decisions. Being a "first option" doesn't mean you can't make smart unselfish decisions. THAT is the problem with Fournier. He just doesn't get it.
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Re: Game 75: Orlando Magic (27-47) vs OKC Thunder (42-31) 7PM ET 

Post#384 » by fendilim » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:51 am

MagicStarwipe wrote:
fendilim wrote:
SOUL wrote:
The blame for what? Hitting shots?

Ross didn't do it at the end of the game, he started taking bad ones when we were down 6 in OT. Big difference.
you know he has taken some questionable 3s even before this game. Evan just gets the blame.

None of this would matter though when we get a real go-to guy. But I dont see why people blame him so much. He is the number one option of this team, even FV have said so. If he thinks Evan has been taking those bad shots, he would have already given that role to someone else.

Its damn you do, damn you dont.

Even Vogel has talked about Evan having to make better decisions. Being a "first option" doesn't mean you can't make smart unselfish decisions. THAT is the problem with Fournier. He just doesn't get it.
maybe he should stop making him the first option then if we have better options.
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Re: Game 75: Orlando Magic (27-47) vs OKC Thunder (42-31) 7PM ET 

Post#385 » by NBlue » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:34 pm

Optimus_Steel wrote:
Magic_Kingdom wrote:Nice defense by Elf on Westbrook last night. Once again, the overlooked biggest problem with his game, even more than his broken jump shot. His defense is what led to Vogel benching him twice this season.



His defense is beyond awful. He keeps getting caught on those screens and he has no idea how to fix it. I dont get it.


I can't tell you how much I agree with you guys. I actually watch a good number of OKC games b/c I'm a pretty big Billy Donovan fan and they set those high screens all the time for opposing point guards. Westbrook's exceptional quickness and ability combined with the level of precision of the picks makes it so that virtually all teams have to defend Westbrook in a total team mentality as there is virtually no way a point guard can come off the high screen.

However, that said, I think you guys are totally right here. EP is 100% at fault and his awful defense was the main factor in our loss. We should not employ more of a team defense mentality but, instead, should focus on ensuring that EP takes Westbrook and, I should note, all other upper echelon pgs man up regardless of what offensive system the opposing teams might run. Some out there might criticize your commentary by suggesting (wrongly of course) that your analysis is sophomoric and stuck in a 1970s thinking of how NBA teams defended. However, I think you rightly criticize EP for his individual failure to limit Westbrook especially given the exceptional defensive help he was provided from his teammates all game. Leaving EP on Westbrook and failing to bring in DJ Augustin for his superior defensive ability cost us that game -- no question about it.
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Re: Game 75: Orlando Magic (27-47) vs OKC Thunder (42-31) 7PM ET 

Post#386 » by SD2042 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:36 pm

craig01 wrote:I don't know .... but this was another disgusting loss.

This organization has no will to win. Coaches, players, management are all guilty.

I know most here want the better lottery pick, but I don't agree with enabling a losing culture.

Win.

Not impressed with anything about this team and more importantly it's future.

I've been a fan since ground was broken for the O-Rena.

Compete.

Clippers, 70's-80's-90's-and up to a few years ago, Minnesota for a decade, Cleveland for much of the last four decades, Washington for around 30 years, Sacramento for decades ..... all stuck in the quagmire of a losing culture and having high draft picks every year.

Every year.

Same results.

Every year.



Although I'm a Steeler fan first. Reasons like this is what caused me to no longer follow the NFL home state team Tennessee Titans. For a long decade, the organization went through erratic management, lack of direction, lack of better draft picks, and lack of better coaching. A fan can only put up with years of losing and inadequacies before the odds of losing respect for the team they follow. As of now, it seems like the Titans after finally turning the corner after a decade of inconsistencies and futile failures. I do wish them well. However, when a business doesn't put in the effort necessary to better the team, the product suffer for it and so do the fans.

In the case of the Magic, the blame is on the entire organization. Not just Rob Hennigan, not Alex Martins, the entire Magic organization. When you set out to achieve goals, one must plan these expectations well. Keeping in mind, Rome was not build in a day. Neither is building a team. Not everything will go according to plan when rebuilding is the first part of goal towards winning for the future. That said, most of us Magic fans by now expected this team should've at least be contending for a playoff spot this season. Obviously by our record, we failed miserably. It's been obvious that in spite of the Magic's intentions to become a better team post the Dwight Howard era, they simply are not on the same page. Too many sidesteps from the goal, micro-management, pieces of the puzzle not fitting right, different coaches in five years, not enough trust, consistence effort, leadership, accountability and so forth.

If the Magic expect themselves to get better as a team and organization, they need to figure out where they stand on goals and expectations to themselves and the team. How do they expect the team to get better when the head ups in the organization are not doing what's best for their success to be realized for the future.

To the fans:

Patience is the hardest to master. The negativity on this board is warranted as the Magic failed to meet expectations to become a better team so far. That said, the negativity on this board can only be regurgitated so many times to the point to where it becomes equally pointless and maybe for a lack of better word "obnoxious". One of the reasons why I post here off and on to keep from being caught up in the negative whirlwind. My advice to the fans is just to focus on something entirely different that deserves your time and energy. At this point, given where the Magic are right now, don't require our energy and time until they get their sh*t together. That's all I got to say.
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Re: Game 75: Orlando Magic (27-47) vs OKC Thunder (42-31) 7PM ET 

Post#387 » by PennytoShaq » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:41 pm

NBlue wrote:
Optimus_Steel wrote:
Magic_Kingdom wrote:Nice defense by Elf on Westbrook last night. Once again, the overlooked biggest problem with his game, even more than his broken jump shot. His defense is what led to Vogel benching him twice this season.



His defense is beyond awful. He keeps getting caught on those screens and he has no idea how to fix it. I dont get it.


I can't tell you how much I agree with you guys. I actually watch a good number of OKC games b/c I'm a pretty big Billy Donovan fan and they set those high screens all the time for opposing point guards. Westbrook's exceptional quickness and ability combined with the level of precision of the picks makes it so that virtually all teams have to defend Westbrook in a total team mentality as there is virtually no way a point guard can come off the high screen.

However, that said, I think you guys are totally right here. EP is 100% at fault and his awful defense was the main factor in our loss. We should not employ more of a team defense mentality but, instead, should focus on ensuring that EP takes Westbrook and, I should note, all other upper echelon pgs man up regardless of what offensive system the opposing teams might run. Some out there might criticize your commentary by suggesting (wrongly of course) that your analysis is sophomoric and stuck in a 1970s thinking of how NBA teams defended. However, I think you rightly criticize EP for his individual failure to limit Westbrook especially given the exceptional defensive help he was provided from his teammates all game. Leaving EP on Westbrook and failing to bring in DJ Augustin for his superior defensive ability cost us that game -- no question about it.


Trying to think of one thing you said in the second paragraph that is actually true and I can't. If you just watched the game you would have seen that Aaron Gordon was matched up on Westbook in the second half many times. So when you use the term "man up" what does that even mean?

How can you make 1 paragraph acknowledging that the high screen almost requires a switch and then in the next go into a diatribe about 1970's defense? It makes zero sense. And to cap it off by saying "wrongly of course", like you have it all figured out and the solution was to play DJ Augustine more...well that's just par for the course at this point.
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Re: Game 75: Orlando Magic (27-47) vs OKC Thunder (42-31) 7PM ET 

Post#388 » by Bensational » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:36 pm

SD2042 wrote:
craig01 wrote:I don't know .... but this was another disgusting loss.

This organization has no will to win. Coaches, players, management are all guilty.

I know most here want the better lottery pick, but I don't agree with enabling a losing culture.

Win.

Not impressed with anything about this team and more importantly it's future.

I've been a fan since ground was broken for the O-Rena.

Compete.

Clippers, 70's-80's-90's-and up to a few years ago, Minnesota for a decade, Cleveland for much of the last four decades, Washington for around 30 years, Sacramento for decades ..... all stuck in the quagmire of a losing culture and having high draft picks every year.

Every year.

Same results.

Every year.



Although I'm a Steeler fan first. Reasons like this is what caused me to no longer follow the NFL home state team Tennessee Titans. For a long decade, the organization went through erratic management, lack of direction, lack of better draft picks, and lack of better coaching. A fan can only put up with years of losing and inadequacies before the odds of losing respect for the team they follow. As of now, it seems like the Titans after finally turning the corner after a decade of inconsistencies and futile failures. I do wish them well. However, when a business doesn't put in the effort necessary to better the team, the product suffer for it and so do the fans.

In the case of the Magic, the blame is on the entire organization. Not just Rob Hennigan, not Alex Martins, the entire Magic organization. When you set out to achieve goals, one must plan these expectations well. Keeping in mind, Rome was not build in a day. Neither is building a team. Not everything will go according to plan when rebuilding is the first part of goal towards winning for the future. That said, most of us Magic fans by now expected this team should've at least be contending for a playoff spot this season. Obviously by our record, we failed miserably. It's been obvious that in spite of the Magic's intentions to become a better team post the Dwight Howard era, they simply are not on the same page. Too many sidesteps from the goal, micro-management, pieces of the puzzle not fitting right, different coaches in five years, not enough trust, consistence effort, leadership, accountability and so forth.

If the Magic expect themselves to get better as a team and organization, they need to figure out where they stand on goals and expectations to themselves and the team. How do they expect the team to get better when the head ups in the organization are not doing what's best for their success to be realized for the future.

To the fans:

Patience is the hardest to master. The negativity on this board is warranted as the Magic failed to meet expectations to become a better team so far. That said, the negativity on this board can only be regurgitated so many times to the point to where it becomes equally pointless and maybe for a lack of better word "obnoxious". One of the reasons why I post here off and on to keep from being caught up in the negative whirlwind. My advice to the fans is just to focus on something entirely different that deserves your time and energy. At this point, given where the Magic are right now, don't require our energy and time until they get their sh*t together. That's all I got to say.


Rebuilds are just a more prolonged process these days since the talent coming in aren't instant impact guys and they generally take 3-4 years of polish before you start seeing them dramatically effecting the W column. Giannis only started looking like a star last year, now he looks like a superstar. Curry, Kawhi, Paul George, Jimmy Butler, Irving - the current crop of stars after LeBron's generation steps aside, they took years to become game changers, too. AD, KAT, Porzingis, Wiggins, Parker, etc are all still maturing and putting up great numbers, but they're not carrying teams to wins. In a couple more years they should begin shifting the power in the league.

You've either gotta draft freakishly well and nail all your picks in a short span and have some rapid growth, or you've just gotta be patient. And patient as in, wait 4-5 years for your first pick to mature into a game changer first. But we traded our first pick away after it became clear he wasn't a big enough game changer. Fournier took 4 years to look like a bonafide starter, and now he finally does. Elf looks like things are finally clicking for him. Same with AG. Mario still needs time and development. And this year we'll draft another rookie and even if he is 'the future' and the star we've been missing, he's gonna need 4-5 years until we see the real fruits of that investment.
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Re: Game 75: Orlando Magic (27-47) vs OKC Thunder (42-31) 7PM ET 

Post#389 » by Bensational » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:40 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:
NBlue wrote:
Optimus_Steel wrote:

His defense is beyond awful. He keeps getting caught on those screens and he has no idea how to fix it. I dont get it.


I can't tell you how much I agree with you guys. I actually watch a good number of OKC games b/c I'm a pretty big Billy Donovan fan and they set those high screens all the time for opposing point guards. Westbrook's exceptional quickness and ability combined with the level of precision of the picks makes it so that virtually all teams have to defend Westbrook in a total team mentality as there is virtually no way a point guard can come off the high screen.

However, that said, I think you guys are totally right here. EP is 100% at fault and his awful defense was the main factor in our loss. We should not employ more of a team defense mentality but, instead, should focus on ensuring that EP takes Westbrook and, I should note, all other upper echelon pgs man up regardless of what offensive system the opposing teams might run. Some out there might criticize your commentary by suggesting (wrongly of course) that your analysis is sophomoric and stuck in a 1970s thinking of how NBA teams defended. However, I think you rightly criticize EP for his individual failure to limit Westbrook especially given the exceptional defensive help he was provided from his teammates all game. Leaving EP on Westbrook and failing to bring in DJ Augustin for his superior defensive ability cost us that game -- no question about it.


Trying to think of one thing you said in the second paragraph that is actually true and I can't. If you just watched the game you would have seen that Aaron Gordon was matched up on Westbook in the second half many times. So when you use the term "man up" what does that even mean?

How can you make 1 paragraph acknowledging that the high screen almost requires a switch and then in the next go into a diatribe about 1970's defense? It makes zero sense. And to cap it off by saying "wrongly of course", like you have it all figured out and the solution was to play DJ Augustine more...well that's just par for the course at this point.


His post had a beautifully subtle sarcastic tone, but if you hadn't cottoned on by the last sentence, I think he spelled it out with the DJ Augustin 'superior defensive ability' comment.

He was being sarky.
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Re: Game 75: Orlando Magic (27-47) vs OKC Thunder (42-31) 7PM ET 

Post#390 » by PennytoShaq » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:05 pm

Bensational wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:
NBlue wrote:
I can't tell you how much I agree with you guys. I actually watch a good number of OKC games b/c I'm a pretty big Billy Donovan fan and they set those high screens all the time for opposing point guards. Westbrook's exceptional quickness and ability combined with the level of precision of the picks makes it so that virtually all teams have to defend Westbrook in a total team mentality as there is virtually no way a point guard can come off the high screen.

However, that said, I think you guys are totally right here. EP is 100% at fault and his awful defense was the main factor in our loss. We should not employ more of a team defense mentality but, instead, should focus on ensuring that EP takes Westbrook and, I should note, all other upper echelon pgs man up regardless of what offensive system the opposing teams might run. Some out there might criticize your commentary by suggesting (wrongly of course) that your analysis is sophomoric and stuck in a 1970s thinking of how NBA teams defended. However, I think you rightly criticize EP for his individual failure to limit Westbrook especially given the exceptional defensive help he was provided from his teammates all game. Leaving EP on Westbrook and failing to bring in DJ Augustin for his superior defensive ability cost us that game -- no question about it.


Trying to think of one thing you said in the second paragraph that is actually true and I can't. If you just watched the game you would have seen that Aaron Gordon was matched up on Westbook in the second half many times. So when you use the term "man up" what does that even mean?

How can you make 1 paragraph acknowledging that the high screen almost requires a switch and then in the next go into a diatribe about 1970's defense? It makes zero sense. And to cap it off by saying "wrongly of course", like you have it all figured out and the solution was to play DJ Augustine more...well that's just par for the course at this point.


His post had a beautifully subtle sarcastic tone, but if you hadn't cottoned on by the last sentence, I think he spelled it out with the DJ Augustin 'superior defensive ability' comment.

He was being sarky.



Holy crap, you are right. That was masterful. I got so used to people posting basketball ignorant nonsense on here that I actually missed the snark.

My hat is tipped.
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Re: Game 75: Orlando Magic (27-47) vs OKC Thunder (42-31) 7PM ET 

Post#391 » by NBlue » Mon Apr 3, 2017 1:28 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:
Bensational wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:
Trying to think of one thing you said in the second paragraph that is actually true and I can't. If you just watched the game you would have seen that Aaron Gordon was matched up on Westbook in the second half many times. So when you use the term "man up" what does that even mean?

How can you make 1 paragraph acknowledging that the high screen almost requires a switch and then in the next go into a diatribe about 1970's defense? It makes zero sense. And to cap it off by saying "wrongly of course", like you have it all figured out and the solution was to play DJ Augustine more...well that's just par for the course at this point.


His post had a beautifully subtle sarcastic tone, but if you hadn't cottoned on by the last sentence, I think he spelled it out with the DJ Augustin 'superior defensive ability' comment.

He was being sarky.



Holy crap, you are right. That was masterful. I got so used to people posting basketball ignorant nonsense on here that I actually missed the snark.

My hat is tipped.


Thanks dude. Sorry -- just got a but frustrated with the haters.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Game 75: Orlando Magic (27-47) vs OKC Thunder (42-31) 7PM ET 

Post#392 » by Blue_and_Whte » Mon Apr 3, 2017 2:15 pm

cedric76 wrote:
Zmill wrote:
cedric76 wrote:To be fair, this board is acting as bad as the crowd last night.
Hard to find die hard magic fans that want to see this team win every game



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Real die hard fans are out here rooting for their team to lose

Lol yeah


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We're just not complete idiots who want to see a useless win just to get the warm and fuzzies. Getting as high a draft pick as possible could improve the team in the long run. As a kid I was standing in Church Street with my dad celebrating that Orlando had an NBA franchise so I don't need to prove my fandom to anyone least of all to the likes of you.
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Re: Game 75: Orlando Magic (27-47) vs OKC Thunder (42-31) 7PM ET 

Post#393 » by Blue_and_Whte » Mon Apr 3, 2017 2:36 pm

fendilim wrote:
SOUL wrote:
fendilim wrote:Well to be fair, him and tross hve been did it tonight. But tross isnt getting the blame?


The blame for what? Hitting shots?

Ross didn't do it at the end of the game, he started taking bad ones when we were down 6 in OT. Big difference.
you know he has taken some questionable 3s even before this game. Evan just gets the blame.

None of this would matter though when we get a real go-to guy. But I dont see why people blame him so much. He is the number one option of this team, even FV have said so. If he thinks Evan has been taking those bad shots, he would have already given that role to someone else.

Its damn you do, damn you dont.
Because he's the scapegoat and Ross is still shiny and new even though Evan is the more consistent player. Had Fournier been moved Ross would've assumed Evans roll and probably be hated on as much as Fournier is. It really doesnt matter whos name is on the back of the jersey, any wing that takes the ball out of Payton's hands will be put under a microscope. Its nothing Fournier or Ross are actually doing wrong. Evan is limited in what he can do but he's still a good player especially considering what we gave up for him. Before creating these little player specific factions, this fan base would normally be happy with turning nothing into a young skilled player.
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Re: Game 75: Orlando Magic (27-47) vs OKC Thunder (42-31) 7PM ET 

Post#394 » by pepe1991 » Mon Apr 3, 2017 2:58 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
fendilim wrote:
SOUL wrote:
The blame for what? Hitting shots?

Ross didn't do it at the end of the game, he started taking bad ones when we were down 6 in OT. Big difference.
you know he has taken some questionable 3s even before this game. Evan just gets the blame.

None of this would matter though when we get a real go-to guy. But I dont see why people blame him so much. He is the number one option of this team, even FV have said so. If he thinks Evan has been taking those bad shots, he would have already given that role to someone else.

Its damn you do, damn you dont.
Because he's the scapegoat and Ross is still shiny and new even though Evan is the more consistent player. Had Fournier been moved Ross would've assumed Evans roll and probably be hated on as much as Fournier is. It really doesnt matter whos name is on the back of the jersey, any wing that takes the ball out of Payton's hands will be put under a microscope. Its nothing Fournier or Ross are actually doing wrong. Evan is limited in what he can do but he's still a good player especially considering what we gave up for him. Before creating these little player specific factions, this fan base would normally be happy with turning nothing into a young skilled player.



But Payton gets triple doubles :rofl:
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