Who is OKC's 2nd best player?

[spearsy23]

The more important question is: Who are the reliable players on this team? We can compete with almost everybody if our main guys bring it, but the problem is that they don't do that every game. The only other guy you can count on to do his thing night in, night out, is Kanter. And we've seen these past couple of games what it looks like when he doesn't bring it either.

Robes, Taj, and semaj bring it every night. Unfortunately Robes sucks at offense, Donovan hates Taj, and semaj is some new level of awful, but they are giving it their all.

[spearsy23]

According to nba.com stats, Oladipo has drawn only 22 fouls on drives all season (in non-fast break situations). And his FG% on such drives is 40.8%. Ouch.

That really is a huge problem for him. Sometimes it's just bad luck tho. He gets hacked so often, but doesn't get the foul calls.

Re Dipo in general: His biggest problem is his inconsistency. He plays 33 minutes a night, but he isn't impacting the game 33 minutes a night. He comes and goes and that's the problem.

I feel like we talked about this just a couple weeks back, but last night was a good example of that. He played well in the 1st half, didn't score in the 3rd and then never got back into it in the 4th. The same thing happened a couple weeks back. He has to do his thing every quarter, not just for one half and then vanish.

If only there was some way were could force him to be aggressive. Maybe put him in some lineup where he'd be asked to be the primary ball handler. Alas, our backup pg is just too good to take the ball out of his hands.

[Pillendreher]

According to nba.com stats, Oladipo has drawn only 22 fouls on drives all season (in non-fast break situations). And his FG% on such drives is 40.8%. Ouch.

That really is a huge problem for him. Sometimes it's just bad luck tho. He gets hacked so often, but doesn't get the foul calls.

Re Dipo in general: His biggest problem is his inconsistency. He plays 33 minutes a night, but he isn't impacting the game 33 minutes a night. He comes and goes and that's the problem.

I feel like we talked about this just a couple weeks back, but last night was a good example of that. He played well in the 1st half, didn't score in the 3rd and then never got back into it in the 4th. The same thing happened a couple weeks back. He has to do his thing every quarter, not just for one half and then vanish.

If only there was some way were could force him to be aggressive. Maybe put him in some lineup where he'd be asked to be the primary ball handler. Alas, our backup pg is just too good to take the ball out of his hands.

We need to get rid of Kanter. He's a good offensive player, but the way we're using him is detrimental to our team offense. We'll always feature Russ very heavily on offense, but we can't afford to just focus on Kanter and neglect the rest of the team.

And we also need to bring in somebody that can get the team to play to its strengths and to involve everybody. Just think about what kind of shots DMD has gotten so far. stats.nba.com shows him at 45 C&S FGA, but that seems high. Most of his shots have been completely improvised. We're not running anything to get good shots. Like 90 % of our jumpshots are open because of Russ or Kanter drawing a double team, but not because we're intentionally and knowingly creating them.

It's just so infuriating to watch this team with multiple guys contributing. We could be so much better if not for coaching and roster building holding us back.

[Pillendreher]

The more important question is: Who are the reliable players on this team? We can compete with almost everybody if our main guys bring it, but the problem is that they don't do that every game. The only other guy you can count on to do his thing night in, night out, is Kanter. And we've seen these past couple of games what it looks like when he doesn't bring it either.

Donovan hates Taj

I don't even think it's that. This franchise is stupid enough not to play him too many minutes because they don't plan on keeping him.

and semaj is some new level of awful, but they are giving it their all.

I'm looking forward to him getting close to 30 minutes a night in the Playoffs because we can't keep up with the smaller Houston wings.

[spearsy23]

That really is a huge problem for him. Sometimes it's just bad luck tho. He gets hacked so often, but doesn't get the foul calls.

Re Dipo in general: His biggest problem is his inconsistency. He plays 33 minutes a night, but he isn't impacting the game 33 minutes a night. He comes and goes and that's the problem.

I feel like we talked about this just a couple weeks back, but last night was a good example of that. He played well in the 1st half, didn't score in the 3rd and then never got back into it in the 4th. The same thing happened a couple weeks back. He has to do his thing every quarter, not just for one half and then vanish.

If only there was some way were could force him to be aggressive. Maybe put him in some lineup where he'd be asked to be the primary ball handler. Alas, our backup pg is just too good to take the ball out of his hands.

We need to get rid of Kanter. He's a good offensive player, but the way we're using him is detrimental to our team offense. We'll always feature Russ very heavily on offense, but we can't afford to just focus on Kanter and neglect the rest of the team.

And we also need to bring in somebody that can get the team to play to its strengths and to involve everybody. Just think about what kind of shots DMD has gotten so far. stats.nba.com shows him at 45 C&S FGA, but that seems high. Most of his shots have been completely improvised. We're not running anything to get good shots. Like 90 % of our jumpshots are open because of Russ or Kanter drawing a double team, but not because we're intentionally and knowingly creating them.

It's just so infuriating to watch this team with multiple guys contributing. We could be so much better if not for coaching and roster building holding us back.

Groundhog day again? We've been down the 'not having kanter' road. It became the enes kanter show starring joffrey lavuergne. Next up will be the enes kanter show starring domantas sabonis. Enes is a superb pick and roll big, it's Donovan choosing to ignore that. There's no reason we aren't running a bench lineup of dipo/Alex/buckets/sabonis/Kanter and spamming the dipo/kanter pick and roll. Yeah that lineup is going to get destroyed on defense, but the current one gets destroyed on both ends so at least this one has a shot at being productive offensively.

[Pillendreher]

If only there was some way were could force him to be aggressive. Maybe put him in some lineup where he'd be asked to be the primary ball handler. Alas, our backup pg is just too good to take the ball out of his hands.

We need to get rid of Kanter. He's a good offensive player, but the way we're using him is detrimental to our team offense. We'll always feature Russ very heavily on offense, but we can't afford to just focus on Kanter and neglect the rest of the team.

And we also need to bring in somebody that can get the team to play to its strengths and to involve everybody. Just think about what kind of shots DMD has gotten so far. stats.nba.com shows him at 45 C&S FGA, but that seems high. Most of his shots have been completely improvised. We're not running anything to get good shots. Like 90 % of our jumpshots are open because of Russ or Kanter drawing a double team, but not because we're intentionally and knowingly creating them.

It's just so infuriating to watch this team with multiple guys contributing. We could be so much better if not for coaching and roster building holding us back.

Groundhog day again? We've been down the 'not having kanter' road. It became the enes kanter show starring joffrey lavuergne. Next up will be the enes kanter show starring domantas sabonis. Enes is a superb pick and roll big, it's Donovan choosing to ignore that. There's no reason we aren't running a bench lineup of dipo/Alex/buckets/sabonis/Kanter and spamming the dipo/kanter pick and roll. Yeah that lineup is going to get destroyed on defense, but the current one gets destroyed on both ends so at least this one has a shot at being productive offensively.

You're right. I kinda forgot about that stretch tbh (mainly because we sucked big time). Brooks was the laughingstock of the league because of our simple and uninnovative play on offense, but I'd argue Donovan is way worse in that regard. Brooks had to make due with guys like Perk, Thabo, Hasheem, etc. Donovan actually has guys that are skilled offensively, but we're not even trying to use them efficiently. All we do is give Russ the ball, dump the ball into Kanter or have some fool post up.

[ThunderBolt]

According to nba.com stats, Oladipo has drawn only 22 fouls on drives all season (in non-fast break situations). And his FG% on such drives is 40.8%. Ouch.

That really is a huge problem for him. Sometimes it's just bad luck tho. He gets hacked so often, but doesn't get the foul calls.

Re Dipo in general: His biggest problem is his inconsistency. He plays 33 minutes a night, but he isn't impacting the game 33 minutes a night. He comes and goes and that's the problem.

I feel like we talked about this just a couple weeks back, but last night was a good example of that. He played well in the 1st half, didn't score in the 3rd and then never got back into it in the 4th. The same thing happened a couple weeks back. He has to do his thing every quarter, not just for one half and then vanish.

If only there was some way were could force him to be aggressive. Maybe put him in some lineup where he'd be asked to be the primary ball handler. Alas, our backup pg is just too good to take the ball out of his hands.

I know semaj is horrible but Oladipo is not a good ball handler. I think that's would help his numbers and hurt his confidence. The truth is he may be doing the best he can. He's just not that good. Like I said before, he's maybe a third option but better off as a fourth guy on a team.

[Bergmaniac]

There's no reason we aren't running a bench lineup of dipo/Alex/buckets/sabonis/Kanter and spamming the dipo/kanter pick and roll. Yeah that lineup is going to get destroyed on defense, but the current one gets destroyed on both ends so at least this one has a shot at being productive offensively.

This. It just baffles me that Donovan refuses to use Kanter in pick and rolls more often. He's one of the best in the league as the roll man yet instead you use him almost exclusively for post ups. Even when Westbrook plays with him Kanter still gets way too many post ups when they are one of the most deadly pick and rolls duos in the league. Brooks knew it and IIRC used Kanter almost exclusively as a roll man back in 2015 and you were a really good offensive team even with Durant out.

[Pillendreher]

There's no reason we aren't running a bench lineup of dipo/Alex/buckets/sabonis/Kanter and spamming the dipo/kanter pick and roll. Yeah that lineup is going to get destroyed on defense, but the current one gets destroyed on both ends so at least this one has a shot at being productive offensively.

This. It just baffles me that Donovan refuses to use Kanter in pick and rolls more often. He's one of the best in the league as the roll man yet instead you use him almost exclusively for post ups. Even when Westbrook plays with him Kanter still gets way too many post ups when they are one of the most deadly pick and rolls duos in the league. Brooks knew it and IIRC used Kanter almost exclusively as a roll man back in 2015 and you were a really good offensive team even with Durant out.

That's right. We were elite offensively, but couldn't defend enough.

Donovan is a fool. There's no other way to say it. The roster is flawed, but he sure as hell isn't helping. We're on the same level as Boston or Utah, but our coach is making things worse with his terrible decisions.

[ThunderBolt]

Defense counts too. As well, why totally ignore box score?

Among Teague/Schroder/Whiteside/Demar/Dipo:
http://bkref.com/tiny/OIm73

2nd highest scorer, 2nd best 3 point shooter, 3rd assist percentage, 3rd assist/to, and probably 2nd best defender to Whiteside. Add in CJ and he's I'd imagine 3rd in scoring and shooting, but miles better defensively.

Oladipo scored 12 quick points and has disappeared for two quarters. Get real with Vic. He's not that good.

And a team leading plus 20 on the night.

Get real with Vic, he's a really good young player and people should actually credit him for it.

He finished +13 and Westbrook finished a -10. +/- is not an accurate way to measure a guys contribution. Otherwise Russ should have been benched for semaj. Vic had a very good early start and disappeared. In the second half he made two costly mistakes with the blown dunk and catching the ball out of bounds. He made a nice steal and layup. I'll give credit where credit is due. We need offensive production from him during the whole game. He hasn't proved capable of providing that. We all agree Westbrook is at worst a top 5 player. Then some argue that Adams is a top ten center. You're saying Vic is a solid number 2 guy. If all those statements were true we would be as good or better than Houston. My take is that Vic and Adams are not very good and Russ is amazing. I feel like we have several options. Next year tell Russ to give up on the triple doubles. Don't ever take more than twenty shots and make sure the ball is constantly moving. I'm sick of being last in the league in passes. ISOball sucks. Yes Russ is great at it but no one else is on this team.

[InTheSabonus]

Oladipo is playing like a 3rd option. Sometimes he plays like a second option.

He has the talent and ability to become a legitimate second option behind Russ. He might get there. But my biggest concern is that he lacks what's hardest to teach- the whole 'mamba' mentality. He needs confidence in himself. He needs loads of it. He's scared of contact on drives, so he doesn't get to the line, he doesn't slam them down nearly as much as he should, and on some possessions he should tell everyone to **** off and he's shooting the ball.

He might develop that mindset. I can't rule it out. But some guys just don't 'get' it. He had no issue displaying it against us last season, and he's hit a couple of clutch 3s for us this season. So he can have it, but he shows it very rarely. He just really needs a shot of confidence right in the arm.

[ThunderBolt]

Oladipo is playing like a 3rd option. Sometimes he plays like a second option.

He has the talent and ability to become a legitimate second option behind Russ. He might get there. But my biggest concern is that he lacks what's hardest to teach- the whole 'mamba' mentality. He needs confidence in himself. He needs loads of it. He's scared of contact on drives, so he doesn't get to the line, he doesn't slam them down nearly as much as he should, and on some possessions he should tell everyone to **** off and he's shooting the ball.

He might develop that mindset. I can't rule it out. But some guys just don't 'get' it. He had no issue displaying it against us last season, and he's hit a couple of clutch 3s for us this season. So he can have it, but he shows it very rarely. He just really needs a shot of confidence right in the arm.

I think the reason he disappears for long stretches is he just doesn't have the ability to create separation or finish with contact. Ball handling, body control, and other inabilities are the reason why.

[Pillendreher]

Actually featuring him offensively might instill some confidence. Like I said a couple of days ago: If I'm Dipo, I'm taking the way Donovan treats me and other guys personal. Donovan has played him as the backup PG for 55 minutes/103 possessions. That's just ridiculous given how absolutely atrocious Christon is.

[bondom34]

Oladipo scored 12 quick points and has disappeared for two quarters. Get real with Vic. He's not that good.

And a team leading plus 20 on the night.

Get real with Vic, he's a really good young player and people should actually credit him for it.

He finished +13 and Westbrook finished a -10. +/- is not an accurate way to measure a guys contribution. Otherwise Russ should have been benched for semaj. Vic had a very good early start and disappeared. In the second half he made two costly mistakes with the blown dunk and catching the ball out of bounds. He made a nice steal and layup. I'll give credit where credit is due. We need offensive production from him during the whole game. He hasn't proved capable of providing that. We all agree Westbrook is at worst a top 5 player. Then some argue that Adams is a top ten center. You're saying Vic is a solid number 2 guy. If all those statements were true we would be as good or better than Houston. My take is that Vic and Adams are not very good and Russ is amazing. I feel like we have several options. Next year tell Russ to give up on the triple doubles. Don't ever take more than twenty shots and make sure the ball is constantly moving. I'm sick of being last in the league in passes. ISOball sucks. Yes Russ is great at it but no one else is on this team.

Vic and Adams are fine, they're not world beaters but they're good young players witha shot to improve. I know people hate the money, but it's the new cap. That's what literally any solid young guy will get. I still take VO over McCollum, who's a 2nd option. Adams has just been disappointing this year.

I agree on the offense stagnating without Russ, but that's on Donovan, spearsy just said it but there's no reason for them to suck that bad without Russ. They somehow do. On paper I don't think they're that bad but on court their coach is clueless.

[ThunderBolt]

And a team leading plus 20 on the night.

Get real with Vic, he's a really good young player and people should actually credit him for it.

He finished +13 and Westbrook finished a -10. +/- is not an accurate way to measure a guys contribution. Otherwise Russ should have been benched for semaj. Vic had a very good early start and disappeared. In the second half he made two costly mistakes with the blown dunk and catching the ball out of bounds. He made a nice steal and layup. I'll give credit where credit is due. We need offensive production from him during the whole game. He hasn't proved capable of providing that. We all agree Westbrook is at worst a top 5 player. Then some argue that Adams is a top ten center. You're saying Vic is a solid number 2 guy. If all those statements were true we would be as good or better than Houston. My take is that Vic and Adams are not very good and Russ is amazing. I feel like we have several options. Next year tell Russ to give up on the triple doubles. Don't ever take more than twenty shots and make sure the ball is constantly moving. I'm sick of being last in the league in passes. ISOball sucks. Yes Russ is great at it but no one else is on this team.

Vic and Adams are fine, they're not world beaters but they're good young players witha shot to improve. I know people hate the money, but it's the new cap. That's what literally any solid young guy will get. I still take VO over McCollum, who's a 2nd option. Adams has just been disappointing this year.

I agree on the offense stagnating without Russ, but that's on Donovan, spearsy just said it but there's no reason for them to suck that bad without Russ. They somehow do. On paper I don't think they're that bad but on court their coach is clueless.

Even with Russ, none of the guys move on offense. They stand around.

[bondom34]

He finished +13 and Westbrook finished a -10. +/- is not an accurate way to measure a guys contribution. Otherwise Russ should have been benched for semaj. Vic had a very good early start and disappeared. In the second half he made two costly mistakes with the blown dunk and catching the ball out of bounds. He made a nice steal and layup. I'll give credit where credit is due. We need offensive production from him during the whole game. He hasn't proved capable of providing that. We all agree Westbrook is at worst a top 5 player. Then some argue that Adams is a top ten center. You're saying Vic is a solid number 2 guy. If all those statements were true we would be as good or better than Houston. My take is that Vic and Adams are not very good and Russ is amazing. I feel like we have several options. Next year tell Russ to give up on the triple doubles. Don't ever take more than twenty shots and make sure the ball is constantly moving. I'm sick of being last in the league in passes. ISOball sucks. Yes Russ is great at it but no one else is on this team.

Vic and Adams are fine, they're not world beaters but they're good young players witha shot to improve. I know people hate the money, but it's the new cap. That's what literally any solid young guy will get. I still take VO over McCollum, who's a 2nd option. Adams has just been disappointing this year.

I agree on the offense stagnating without Russ, but that's on Donovan, spearsy just said it but there's no reason for them to suck that bad without Russ. They somehow do. On paper I don't think they're that bad but on court their coach is clueless.

Even with Russ, none of the guys move on offense. They stand around.

I don't think BD really asks them to do a ton. They move a bit, just not much. There's rarely anything too complicated off ball, just really basic sets. Always been that way. I don't personally think it's the players as I think they're capable of it, but the coach should normally be asking these things of them IMO.

[oken]

There's no reason we aren't running a bench lineup of dipo/Alex/buckets/sabonis/Kanter and spamming the dipo/kanter pick and roll. Yeah that lineup is going to get destroyed on defense, but the current one gets destroyed on both ends so at least this one has a shot at being productive offensively.

This. It just baffles me that Donovan refuses to use Kanter in pick and rolls more often. He's one of the best in the league as the roll man yet instead you use him almost exclusively for post ups. Even when Westbrook plays with him Kanter still gets way too many post ups when they are one of the most deadly pick and rolls duos in the league. Brooks knew it and IIRC used Kanter almost exclusively as a roll man back in 2015 and you were a really good offensive team even with Durant out.

Checking for Kanter's videos from past I found this from 2012. It seems the offensive moves were always there, even from Day 1. It's a great pity after 5 years the defensive moves are still not quite there.
http://www.slcdunk.com/2012/5/28/3048250/kanters-offense-more-than-meets-the-eye-breakdown