Political Roundtable Part XIV

[FAH1223]

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[JWizmentality]

Richard Dawkins bringing the heat

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I'm from Jamaica, a Christian country that was once held the record for most churches per square mile. Gays were regularly and still are beaten and killed. So what was your point exactly?

I know you aren't saying that the above tweet implies only Islamic nations are intolerant of gays, right?

"Some Christian countries do it too" is a pretty bizarre argument.

I'm sure Mr Dawkins had no other motive.

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[Induveca]

Richard Dawkins bringing the heat

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There's an article in today's NY Times about gays being killed and beaten in Chechnya. That seems pretty typical of Islamic counties, even more tolerant ones such as Turkey. Many Christian countries in Africa aren't any better.

Or christians in south america or in Central Asia, or with Hindus in India, or with the various religions in Papau New Ginea toward gays, etc. In some cultures, we find no issue, but in many others, across a wide number of religions, we do find significant discrimination against LGBT folk. Far be it for me to tell Richard Dawkins what to focus on, but Muslim to gay discrimination is an odd place to bring the heat.

Every country where death for homosexuals is enforced by law are Muslim nations which practice a variation of Sharia law. It's a barbaric act which should be condemned, why is it wrong to call it out as such?

And JWiz is right, Jamaica (and the DR) are violently homophobic, (still very bad, but far improved the past few decades). However our government officials have never beheaded gays in the public square or tossed them off buildings after a court sentence.

[dckingsfan]

Four part series by the LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-ed-our-dishonest-president/

[Induveca]

3 bombs, 2 detonated in St Petersburg. Third didn't go off.....so far 10 dead 50+ injured. Occurred about 90 minutes ago.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/787238/St-Petersburg-bomb-terror-metro-explosion/amp

Quick update: ISIS claiming responsibility via social media.

http://www.vocativ.com/417413/st-petersburg-metro-blast-kills-at-least-10/

[Zonkerbl]

And Zonker's favorite figure (wait, what? We are already over 100% of GDP):

I can't read this, it's too small

[Zonkerbl]

And Zonker's favorite figure (wait, what? We are already over 100% of GDP):

The coming train wreck will diminish the economic future of every American yet the major media don't seem to care. And voters appear unwilling to hold their reps accountable. Cognitive dissonance maybe, IDK. If we're unwilling to cut spending then higher taxes and ever-rising inflation are the only means to address the imbalance. I'm assuming continued moderate growth < 3%.

If there's one thing historians are going to look back at and shake their heads at us, it's that we knew social security was going bankrupt decades ahead of time and yet did nothing about it.

Well, that and global warming I guess. Except with the collapse of social security we know exactly what will happen. And yet we're still too cowardly as a nation to fix it.

[Zonkerbl]

I think Mark Cuban's take on Russia Gate is the most plausible.

Billionaire Mark Cuban: Trump Too Clueless To Collude With The Russians - The Huffington Post
https://apple.news/AdWHVWiiuSEO7xcDAjtFoCg


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Yeah. On the one hand, I understand the Dems just wanting to inflict karmic payback on the Trump administration for its relentless and baseless witchhunt of Hillary. They acted in bad faith and they deserve every bit of scrutiny they are getting.

OTOH, there's pretty much zero evidence Trump or his entourage did anything actually wrong, except try to recognize the changing political reality of our relations with Russia. It sucks that Putin is basically dictator for life now, and it sucks that they invaded Ukraine, but they aren't actually threatening the future existence of life on this planet anymore. They're not North Korea. They're not Iran. And yet they are close friends with North Korea and Iran. If they are willing to have a sane conversation with us, they could help us out a LOT.

[sfam]

There's an article in today's NY Times about gays being killed and beaten in Chechnya. That seems pretty typical of Islamic counties, even more tolerant ones such as Turkey. Many Christian countries in Africa aren't any better.

Or christians in south america or in Central Asia, or with Hindus in India, or with the various religions in Papau New Ginea toward gays, etc. In some cultures, we find no issue, but in many others, across a wide number of religions, we do find significant discrimination against LGBT folk. Far be it for me to tell Richard Dawkins what to focus on, but Muslim to gay discrimination is an odd place to bring the heat.

Every country where death for homosexuals is enforced by law are Muslim nations which practice a variation of Sharia law. It's a barbaric act which should be condemned, why is it wrong to call it out as such?

And JWiz is right, Jamaica (and the DR) are violently homophobic, (still very bad, but far improved the past few decades). However our government officials have never beheaded gays in the public square or tossed them off buildings after a court sentence.

There are a lot of countries where it is illegal to be gay.



EDIT: Who isn't condemning violence against LGBT folk? This seems pretty widespread in terms of criticism against them, whether the perpetrator is Muslim or not.

[sfam]

Four part series by the LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-ed-our-dishonest-president/

The first op-ed starts off in a pretty bizarre fashion.

...nothing prepared us for the magnitude of this train wreck. Like millions of other Americans, we clung to a slim hope that the new president would turn out to be all noise and bluster, or that the people around him in the White House would act as a check on his worst instincts, or that he would be sobered and transformed by the awesome responsibilities of office.

Instead, seventy-some days in — and with about 1,400 to go before his term is completed — it is increasingly clear that those hopes were misplaced...

How is anyone surprised by Trump's behavior as President? This is exactly who he has been his whole life, and the whole campaign process.

Thinking Trump would turn into a different person is the same type of magical thinking as believing you can do a crazy diet to lose all your weight and then magically transition to a maintenance mode where you eat and act like normal skinny people. Its pure fantasy, but happens every day.


"If China is not going to solve North Korea, we will" - This is our President - bluster and idiocy, without a clue what his actions will lead to, with no real ideas past bumper sticker details on how to address any of the world's intractable problems.

[sfam]

And Zonker's favorite figure (wait, what? We are already over 100% of GDP):

The coming train wreck will diminish the economic future of every American yet the major media don't seem to care. And voters appear unwilling to hold their reps accountable. Cognitive dissonance maybe, IDK. If we're unwilling to cut spending then higher taxes and ever-rising inflation are the only means to address the imbalance. I'm assuming continued moderate growth < 3%.

If there's one thing historians are going to look back at and shake their heads at us, it's that we knew social security was going bankrupt decades ahead of time and yet did nothing about it.

Well, that and global warming I guess. Except with the collapse of social security we know exactly what will happen. And yet we're still too cowardly as a nation to fix it.

Environmental destruction is a bit larger of a problem than social security. 1000 years from now, we probably won't care about out of control entitlement spending in the US in the 2000s. 5000 years from now we will still care about the actions taken on the world today from a global warming standpoint.

[sfam]

I think Mark Cuban's take on Russia Gate is the most plausible.

Billionaire Mark Cuban: Trump Too Clueless To Collude With The Russians - The Huffington Post
https://apple.news/AdWHVWiiuSEO7xcDAjtFoCg


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Yeah. On the one hand, I understand the Dems just wanting to inflict karmic payback on the Trump administration for its relentless and baseless witchhunt of Hillary. They acted in bad faith and they deserve every bit of scrutiny they are getting.

OTOH, there's pretty much zero evidence Trump or his entourage did anything actually wrong, except try to recognize the changing political reality of our relations with Russia. It sucks that Putin is basically dictator for life now, and it sucks that they invaded Ukraine, but they aren't actually threatening the future existence of life on this planet anymore. They're not North Korea. They're not Iran. And yet they are close friends with North Korea and Iran. If they are willing to have a sane conversation with us, they could help us out a LOT.

Obama wanted a "Russia Reset" and got mocked roundly from both Hillary and the entire Republican establishment. Somehow, Putin has now become the republican BFF. The fact remains they are a really bad actor on the international stage. There is very little you can point to that is positive. Trump can try improving relations all he wants, but the bottom line is there is little alignment between what benefits Putin's Russia and the interests of the US.

As for whether Trump or his entourage did anything wrong, there probably is evidence. Otherwise the FBI would not have publicly acknowledged investigating their actions. The question is whether the evidence is substantial enough to convict.

[Zonkerbl]

I don't understand this argument. Are we trying to argue that it's ok to hate Islam because they are homophobic? Can't we hate homophobia and love Islam? No one's going around trying to outlaw Christianity because Christians are the primary murderers of gays in the US.

Are we trying to say we should hate Islam because they are the only countries in the world currently where the government is explicitly religious? If a country has a history of being religiously run, should we hate that religion also?

I hate religious extremism. I hate religious dictatorships. Nevertheless, despite all the very good reasons that I have to do so, I don't hate Christianity and I don't hate Islam either.

[Zonkerbl]

I think Mark Cuban's take on Russia Gate is the most plausible.

Billionaire Mark Cuban: Trump Too Clueless To Collude With The Russians - The Huffington Post
https://apple.news/AdWHVWiiuSEO7xcDAjtFoCg


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Yeah. On the one hand, I understand the Dems just wanting to inflict karmic payback on the Trump administration for its relentless and baseless witchhunt of Hillary. They acted in bad faith and they deserve every bit of scrutiny they are getting.

OTOH, there's pretty much zero evidence Trump or his entourage did anything actually wrong, except try to recognize the changing political reality of our relations with Russia. It sucks that Putin is basically dictator for life now, and it sucks that they invaded Ukraine, but they aren't actually threatening the future existence of life on this planet anymore. They're not North Korea. They're not Iran. And yet they are close friends with North Korea and Iran. If they are willing to have a sane conversation with us, they could help us out a LOT.

Obama wanted a "Russia Reset" and got mocked roundly from both Hillary and the entire Republican establishment. Somehow, Putin has now become the republican BFF. The fact remains they are a really bad actor on the international stage. There is very little you can point to that is positive. Trump can try improving relations all he wants, but the bottom line is there is little alignment between what benefits Putin's Russia and the interests of the US.

As for whether Trump or his entourage did anything wrong, there probably is evidence. Otherwise the FBI would not have publicly acknowledged investigating their actions. The question is whether the evidence is substantial enough to convict.

Well, the FBI investigated Hillary too.

[Zonkerbl]

Four part series by the LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-ed-our-dishonest-president/

Nothing new. Cathartic to have it all put together in one place I guess.

[sfam]

I don't understand this argument. Are we trying to argue that it's ok to hate Islam because they are homophobic? Can't we hate homophobia and love Islam? No one's going around trying to outlaw Christianity because Christians are the primary murderers of gays in the US.

Are we trying to say we should hate Islam because they are the only countries in the world currently where the government is explicitly religious? If a country has a history of being religiously run, should we hate that religion also?

I hate religious extremism. I hate religious dictatorships. Nevertheless, despite all the very good reasons that I have to do so, I don't hate Christianity and I don't hate Islam either.

The argument goes something like this.

"We all agree X is a really bad thing

Muslims do X, and therefore we should overtly protest Islam

It matters not if others do X, including Christians. Muslims are always worse about everything and should always be our focus. "

This formula applies to sexual violence and womens issues, gay rights, gun violence, attacking protesters, forced marriages, attacking Jewish people, terrorist acts, etc.

[dckingsfan]

The coming train wreck will diminish the economic future of every American yet the major media don't seem to care. And voters appear unwilling to hold their reps accountable. Cognitive dissonance maybe, IDK. If we're unwilling to cut spending then higher taxes and ever-rising inflation are the only means to address the imbalance. I'm assuming continued moderate growth < 3%.

If there's one thing historians are going to look back at and shake their heads at us, it's that we knew social security was going bankrupt decades ahead of time and yet did nothing about it.

Well, that and global warming I guess. Except with the collapse of social security we know exactly what will happen. And yet we're still too cowardly as a nation to fix it.

Environmental destruction is a bit larger of a problem than social security. 1000 years from now, we probably won't care about out of control entitlement spending in the US in the 2000s. 5000 years from now we will still care about the actions taken on the world today from a global warming standpoint.

The two issues are very much interlocked. As our entitlement programs and debt payments have expanded, they have squeezed all other programs.

For example: We could have simply moved the existing coal power plants to natural gas and paid for the conversion - but we don't have the funds.

For example: We could have given a 100% deduction on individuals that properly insulated their houses - but we don't have the funds.

For example: We could have set-up an NIH like campus for developing energy saving devices - but we don't have the funds. (Advanced technology is probably the only way we are getting out of this mess).

For example: We could have expanded our railway interconnectivity (reducing the costs of carbon for transportation) - but we don't have the funds.

[sfam]

Really sad to see the current (and continuing) wave of voilence against journalists in Mexico. Deaths to their staff has caused a newspaper to quit publication.

There was the freelance writer, slain at a carwash. Then, the columnist that was shot twice as he left a restaurant with his wife and son. And on March 23, a 54-year-old journalist and mother of three, Miroslava Breach, was fatally shot eight times outside her home while she was in her car with one of her children. A rolled-up piece of cardboard was left with a chilling reason for the crime: “being a tattletale.”

Three Mexican journalists were killed last month in an “unprecedented” wave of violence against the press. The job of a journalist has become so dangerous in the nation that one Mexican newspaper owner has decided he is no longer willing to take on the risk.

In a front-page letter published Sunday with the massive headline “Adios!” the editor of Norte, a newspaper in the Mexican border city of Juarez, announced it would be ending its print publication as a result of the ongoing violence against journalists, killings that often go unpunished.

Its a reminder what the world starts to look like without freedom of the press. The ability to hold leaders accountable disappears. Trump's constant attacks on the press can have long term consequences.

[sfam]

If there's one thing historians are going to look back at and shake their heads at us, it's that we knew social security was going bankrupt decades ahead of time and yet did nothing about it.

Well, that and global warming I guess. Except with the collapse of social security we know exactly what will happen. And yet we're still too cowardly as a nation to fix it.

Environmental destruction is a bit larger of a problem than social security. 1000 years from now, we probably won't care about out of control entitlement spending in the US in the 2000s. 5000 years from now we will still care about the actions taken on the world today from a global warming standpoint.

The two issues are very much interlocked. As our entitlement programs and debt payments have expanded, they have squeezed all other programs.

For example: We could have simply moved the existing coal power plants to natural gas and paid for the conversion - but we don't have the funds.

For example: We could have given a 100% deduction on individuals that properly insulated their houses - but we don't have the funds.

For example: We could have set-up an NIH like campus for developing energy saving devices - but we don't have the funds. (Advanced technology is probably the only way we are getting out of this mess).

For example: We could have expanded our railway interconnectivity (reducing the costs of carbon for transportation) - but we don't have the funds.

If we had the funds, we wouldn't be using them to save the environment, so I'm not sure I see the connection. There "could" be a connection if there was actual interest among our elected representatives in addressing this. Yet even democrats seem to give climate change concerns lip service.

The larger issues here are again systemic in my view. If we don't care what a "fact" is, its really hard to develop policy to address intractable problems. This is independent of whether there are funds available. I might argue the fact we don't care about facts means we don't care about the coming debt crisis any more than we do about destroying the environment. Worse, there is no way to engage in an actual conversation, because at the beginning, we are inundated with "fact" questions - "The cause is unclear. This needs to be studied further before we take any action - oh, and we're cutting all the funding to study it further..."

[popper]

Timely front page article in WSJ today. IMO this is an acknowledgment that we're not going to cut spending or raise taxes in the near term so the printing press is the only option left (assuming slow to moderate growth). In two or three years our dollars are likely to be worth 85 cents.

Central Bankers Rethink Strict 2% Inflation Target