2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread Pt 2

[Screwston]

At this point, harden should be the unanimous MVP

MVP

1. James Harden (52-25)
2. Isaiah Thomas (50-27)
3.kawhi Leonard (59-17)
4.lebron James (49-27)
5. Russell Westbrook (43-33)

All other MVP candidates are leading their team to better records.

Westbrook shouldn't even be in the MVP discussion. Thunder are 43-33.

Even if they win their remaining six games, that still only puts them at 49-33.

He's averaging a TD, that makes a big difference, if he wasn't he wouldn't even be in the conversation. As of right now, WB is leading the race.

[Goodfellaz]

Westbrook is now a favourite or tied odds wise on vegas books to win mvp.



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[bmurph128]

Both are more valuable than Harden.

And I wouldn't be too upset with Steph over LeBron - however:

Games played:

Thompson - 74
Curry - 75
Green - 73
Iguodala - 73
KD - 59



LeBron - 70
Kyrie - 68
Love - 55
Thompson - 76
JR - 35


LeBron's were all for rest obviously, but Kyrie missed some games due to injury; obviously Love and JR as well. KD obviously has the injury, but the other 4 key cogs? Damn that's impressive.


Injuries are apart of the game and that's fine - but missing parts of your starting lineup for half the year would be difficult for any team.

As a Jazz fan I have to chuckle. I'm sure Kyrie has rested 5+ games, so that makes like a handful of games to injury? Love has missed a good chunk of games, fine, and JR missed alot, but the Cavs have struggled way too much for playing in the East and with all the talent they have. As much as I love Lebron, Harden is more deserving of an MVP this year, because the expectations for Houston was in the .500 ballpark, and they are at .675, that's amazing. I would say that Cleveland fell short 10 games from my expectations, and probably the expectations of most "experts" too. It could be part of not really caring about the regular season, but that will cost you the MVP. On a side note, Lebron is having an incredible season statistically, not far off a 26/9/9 season. I feel if he really wanted too, he could easily get a triple double for the year.

Not sure why you would chuckle as a Jazz fan - I recently read a Jazz fan talking about how deep they are, and how they're built to withstand injury to any player save for Gobert. Apples and oranges there. Cavs are deep enough to be where we are, which is still good enough for one of the top records in the league - but particularly with the injury to Love since we were already to thin in the frontcourt, we were not built to withstand it.

Kyrie has NOT "rested" 5+ games - I think he's truly rested one or two - the rest he was held out due to soreness in his knee or some other nagging type of injury.

I agree that LeBron won't win MVP and I'm fine with that - I was just pointing out that there's a difference in circumstances, outside of the player's control, that impact how we view the MVP.

[kingmalaki]

Read and see the videos in the first two posts:

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/the-meaning-lessness-of-westbrooks-triple-doubles.520571/

[JordansBulls]

Wait so now they will say who won MVP on June 26th?

http://www.nba.com/article/2017/04/03/nba-awards-show-tnt-basketball-city-mvp-manhattan

The league will announce the winner of the MVP and its other major awards during the show, which will be televised live on TNT.

The Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, Sixth Man Award, Most Improved Player and Coach of the Year will be announced during the NBA Awards Show. The league says Monday that it will announce new awards that will be unveiled during the telecast in the coming months.

Award winners have previously been announced separately throughout the postseason.

[Atmanne]

ESPN forecast has it dead even between Westbrook and Harden. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19066747/nba-espn-forecast-predictions-nba-mvp

In the midst of one of the closest races in recent history, we asked our panel: Who will win MVP?

Among 72 voters, there was a tie: James Harden was named by 36 voters, and Russell Westbrook by 36.

We also asked them: Who should win?

The vote was only a little more decisive there: Westbrook came out ahead, but he received only 49 percent. The remaining votes went to Harden (33 percent), Kawhi Leonard (14 percent), LeBron James (3 percent) and John Wall (1 percent).

[Starboy]

Curry's taken a backseat through the first half of the season to integrate him. It's called team work, part of the reason KD left a guy WB to play with someone like Curry. I think since January, Steph actually averaged more FGA per game. It also says something that even though Steph is having a down year, he still is having more impact in his team than KD.

KD is a freak of nature that will single handedly dominate games and win games for you. He always will be that. He's also a slightly better scorer than both Steph and Lebron. The difference however is that both those players can dominate games while elevating the other 4 players on the court. That's what makes them extra special, esp Lebron.

When KD comes back he'll take a backseat again ha? Its because Curry is a good teammate When LeBron got to Miami he was taking the same amount of shots as Wade, even gave him the ball lotta times to close out games, bc he respected that it was Wade's team, then of course for the remaining 3 years, that didn't happen. KD comes in n instantly becomes the first option, not because he's better but because Curry is a good teammate

not sure if your posts are sad or funny. In your little world you think you are being funny or ironic...

Curry is a great teammate and he did take a step back.. Kerr, KD, Green, Curry have said that in multiple interviews. Stop embarrassing yourself.

[Screwston]

Curry's taken a backseat through the first half of the season to integrate him. It's called team work, part of the reason KD left a guy WB to play with someone like Curry. I think since January, Steph actually averaged more FGA per game. It also says something that even though Steph is having a down year, he still is having more impact in his team than KD.

KD is a freak of nature that will single handedly dominate games and win games for you. He always will be that. He's also a slightly better scorer than both Steph and Lebron. The difference however is that both those players can dominate games while elevating the other 4 players on the court. That's what makes them extra special, esp Lebron.

When KD comes back he'll take a backseat again ha? Its because Curry is a good teammate When LeBron got to Miami he was taking the same amount of shots as Wade, even gave him the ball lotta times to close out games, bc he respected that it was Wade's team, then of course for the remaining 3 years, that didn't happen. KD comes in n instantly becomes the first option, not because he's better but because Curry is a good teammate

not sure if your posts are sad or funny. In your little world you think you are being funny or ironic...

Curry is a great teammate and he did take a step back.. Kerr, KD, Green, Curry have said that in multiple interviews. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Why does KD take more shots than him n not like Klay Thompson? Guess he should of been a great teammate last year 2, n instead of averaging 30, he could give up few shots to Klay so they can both average 25, bc thats what great teammates do. Get outta here boy

he took a step back bc its kevin freakin Durant.

[Edrees]

ESPN forecast has it dead even between Westbrook and Harden. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19066747/nba-espn-forecast-predictions-nba-mvp

In the midst of one of the closest races in recent history, we asked our panel: Who will win MVP?

Among 72 voters, there was a tie: James Harden was named by 36 voters, and Russell Westbrook by 36.

We also asked them: Who should win?

The vote was only a little more decisive there: Westbrook came out ahead, but he received only 49 percent. The remaining votes went to Harden (33 percent), Kawhi Leonard (14 percent), LeBron James (3 percent) and John Wall (1 percent).

Wow I thought harden had it in the bag, but I forgot the media really loves the triple double stuff, might be enough to get them overlook the seeding/# wins. If westbrook breaks Oscar's record (VERY likely as he needs 2 more in 6 games to beat it) they may just give it to him. That's pretty nuts.

[RoyalWun]

Westbrook averaging a triple double and quite possibly about to break Oscar Robertson's record for most triple doubles in a season overshadows Harden's season honestly. We are witnessing history. That's the only reason I'd put him over Harden. If Russ ended anything shy of a triple double or didn't break Big O's record, then it goes to Harden.

[michaelm]

When KD comes back he'll take a backseat again ha? Its because Curry is a good teammate When LeBron got to Miami he was taking the same amount of shots as Wade, even gave him the ball lotta times to close out games, bc he respected that it was Wade's team, then of course for the remaining 3 years, that didn't happen. KD comes in n instantly becomes the first option, not because he's better but because Curry is a good teammate

not sure if your posts are sad or funny. In your little world you think you are being funny or ironic...

Curry is a great teammate and he did take a step back.. Kerr, KD, Green, Curry have said that in multiple interviews. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Why does KD take more shots than him n not like Klay Thompson? Guess he should of been a great teammate last year 2, n instead of averaging 30, he could give up few shots to Klay so they can both average 25, bc thats what great teammates do. Get outta here boy

he took a step back bc its kevin freakin Durant.

Yes, I guess Curry being the only player ever to be MVP unanimously last season was all part of a plan, those who voted him same doing so out of concern for how he would feel he if he ever did end up on the same team as KD in the future.

[K_chile22]

Read on Twitter

[therealbig3]

I don't understand what's funnier, someone pretending like the numbers outside of PER never supported Curry being better than Durant (which they did), or that Durant is still somehow close to LeBron's level (which he's not)?

Curry was better than Durant ever was not just in 2016, but in 2015 too, and he's better than Durant now.

[Doctor MJ]

Westbrook averaging a triple double and quite possibly about to break Oscar Robertson's record for most triple doubles in a season overshadows Harden's season honestly. We are witnessing history. That's the only reason I'd put him over Harden. If Russ ended anything shy of a triple double or didn't break Big O's record, then it goes to Harden.

Westbrook has a compelling case for MVP but this is not it. His rebounding totals are just a team strategy not an accomplishment.


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[benef]

My personal opinion is that each has flaws:
4. LeBron James: Hasn't played defence all year and already has a lot of silverware in the cabinet
3. Russell Westbrook: Is a really bad defender and isn't able to lift the Thunder enough to cause serious problems in the playoffs
2. Kawhi Leonard: He's a member of the Spurs, meaning that no one who is a really casual fan knows enough about him.
1. James Harden: Bad defence, plus couldn't get the locker room last year.
However, each player has a real good reason to pick them,
4. LeBron James: Best player in the world, and anyone who disputes this needs to go back to the bottom of the pond in California they come from.
3. Russell Westbrook: Incredible numbers, best storyline of anyone ever and a triple-double.
2. Kawhi Leonard: Best two way player since Scottie Pippen, and arguably better that him.
1. James Harden: The Rockets have catapaulted from 8th to 3rd in the West entirely due to him being absolutely amazing, makes incredible things look easy.

Westbrook shouldn't get the MVP. I think he'll win one next year or the year after if he misses out on this one, like Oscar Robertson did after averaging a triple-double. A triple double is amazing, but doesn't automatically make you the MVP. Harden is more valuable, Leonard is more valuable. Anyone who doubts Harden needs to read this great article by Ben Golliver of Sports Illustrated. https://www.si.com/nba/2017/03/27/james-harden-nba-mvp-case-rockets-russell-westbrook

[benef]

Westbrook averaging a triple double and quite possibly about to break Oscar Robertson's record for most triple doubles in a season overshadows Harden's season honestly. We are witnessing history. That's the only reason I'd put him over Harden. If Russ ended anything shy of a triple double or didn't break Big O's record, then it goes to Harden.

Westbrook has a compelling case for MVP but this is not it. His rebounding totals are just a team strategy not an accomplishment.


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Agreed. If Harden wanted to jump over Capela to grab 2 more rebounds per game, he'd have a triple double too. With more assist and honestly a better case.

[ckman]

Both Westbrook or Harden's performance are good enough to win the mvp, but Harden's supporters and some Rockets fans who've been creating threads and posts the last few days to discrediting Westbrook makes me rooting hard for Westbrook to win it, so that i can enjoy all the salty threads when he does. Lol

[Dupp]

My personal opinion is that each has flaws:
4. LeBron James: Hasn't played defence all year and already has a lot of silverware in the cabinet
3. Russell Westbrook: Is a really bad defender and isn't able to lift the Thunder enough to cause serious problems in the playoffs
2. Kawhi Leonard: He's a member of the Spurs, meaning that no one who is a really casual fan knows enough about him.
1. James Harden: Bad defence, plus couldn't get the locker room last year.
However, each player has a real good reason to pick them,
4. LeBron James: Best player in the world, and anyone who disputes this needs to go back to the bottom of the pond in California they come from.
3. Russell Westbrook: Incredible numbers, best storyline of anyone ever and a triple-double.
2. Kawhi Leonard: Best two way player since Scottie Pippen, and arguably better that him.
1. James Harden: The Rockets have catapaulted from 8th to 3rd in the West entirely due to him being absolutely amazing, makes incredible things look easy.

Westbrook shouldn't get the MVP. I think he'll win one next year or the year after if he misses out on this one, like Oscar Robertson did after averaging a triple-double. A triple double is amazing, but doesn't automatically make you the MVP. Harden is more valuable, Leonard is more valuable. Anyone who doubts Harden needs to read this great article by Ben Golliver of Sports Illustrated. https://www.si.com/nba/2017/03/27/james-harden-nba-mvp-case-rockets-russell-westbrook

Incorrect. Hes one of the only ones that has. Hes not a top 4 mvp but hes certainly played defense.

[Slava]

At this point, harden should be the unanimous MVP

MVP

1. James Harden (52-25)
2. Isaiah Thomas (50-27)
3.kawhi Leonard (59-17)
4.lebron James (49-27)
5. Russell Westbrook (43-33)

All other MVP candidates are leading their team to better records.

Westbrook shouldn't even be in the MVP discussion. Thunder are 43-33.

Even if they win their remaining six games, that still only puts them at 49-33.

eh no. I think he should win the MVP but unanimous MVPs go to players like Shaq in 2000 or Curry from last season. As good as Harden's season is, its not worth making every single person vote for him especially when there are other competitive alternatives.

[HotRocks34]

Westbrook averaging a triple double and quite possibly about to break Oscar Robertson's record for most triple doubles in a season overshadows Harden's season honestly. We are witnessing history.

Yes, this is correct.

Harden seems to be fading down the stretch right now (wrist, illness) and that only magnifies what Westbrook is doing.

There is no way to minimize what Westbrook is on course to do. If he accomplishes the feats -- 30 PPG, new triple double record, 30+ PER, triple double season average with a pace of 100 or less -- then those marks, taken together, are unlikely to ever be broken as the NBA moves into the future. As I said in another thread, this has never been done and I would bet anyone anything that it will never happen again if it happens now.

This would be historic. If it happens. We have to see if it happens.

Vegas seems to be shifting along with the general zeitgeist. Westbrook appears to be, at worst, even with Harden now and given that "Westbrook -175, Harden +140" line it could be the case that Westbrook is now ahead in the race. At least in terms of public perception.

It's kind of a shame that Harden is wearing down now, but it goes to show how difficult Westbrook's feats truly are. It takes an incredibly unique physical ability, stamina, will and motor to be able to function so well at such a high usage rate. And to do so without breaking down over the course of a season.

I remember that Durant was on course for a 30 PER season in 2014, and then he faded badly down the stretch of the regular season and remained exhausted during that playoff run.

Very few people in NBA history could have any chance to do what Westbrook is doing now. Even if you put them in Westbrook's position, and raised their usage rate up.

Most of them simply aren't good enough, and/or would not hold up to the wear and tear of the situation.

I'm rooting for Westbrook to break the triple double record and average a triple double. It's hard to speculate on who will win the MVP award because the media awards it and the media can be fickle and arbitrary. They make their own rules for the award.

Westbrook deserves this season, whether or not he wins the award. The amount of grief that the guy has gotten over his career has been unbelievable. Finishing off such an impressive season "the right way" would be a nice feather in his cap, award or not.

I hope he does it.