Marcus Smart

[AKFO]

I am a Marcus supporter but I am very discouraged with his lack of offensive progress this year.
He is a horrible shooter as we all know, but i grow increasingly frustrated at his inability to finish in the paint. He has not evolved past his tendency to just bull his way to the rim and throw up an awful shot after he initiates contact( which crazily enough worked wonder for him in college because he was stronger and more athletic than everyone else). In the NBA however this tactic has failed spectacularly and he has yet to evolve his game. he completely goes out of his way to seek contact rather than avoid it and then throw up a junk layup attempt after being hit and knocked around. . on a positive note, i will say i think his passing and court vision has improved

I think his finishing is getting better, in that he's learning to get his shot off in the paint, something he couldn't do his first year, or even last year. He'll get better at finishing as time goes on, but he's never gonna be great at it. He's learning how to get his shot over bigger guys, but I'm glad he doesn't just think he can out-jump people. He even gets to the line at a decent rate.

but he still gotta be one of the worst finishing point guards in the league

I agree but you take it because he's the emotional leader of the team, is elite defensively, and comes up big in big moments. I have no doubt he'll continue to work and get better if we give him another contract.

[wizfactor94]

I think his finishing is getting better, in that he's learning to get his shot off in the paint, something he couldn't do his first year, or even last year. He'll get better at finishing as time goes on, but he's never gonna be great at it. He's learning how to get his shot over bigger guys, but I'm glad he doesn't just think he can out-jump people. He even gets to the line at a decent rate.

but he still gotta be one of the worst finishing point guards in the league

I agree but you take it because he's the emotional leader of the team, is elite defensively, and comes up big in big moments. I have no doubt he'll continue to work and get better if we give him another contract.

I understand that, that is why he is playing 30 minutes a game

[KumaJG]

I am a Marcus supporter but I am very discouraged with his lack of offensive progress this year.
He is a horrible shooter as we all know, but i grow increasingly frustrated at his inability to finish in the paint. He has not evolved past his tendency to just bull his way to the rim and throw up an awful shot after he initiates contact( which crazily enough worked wonder for him in college because he was stronger and more athletic than everyone else). In the NBA however this tactic has failed spectacularly and he has yet to evolve his game. he completely goes out of his way to seek contact rather than avoid it and then throw up a junk layup attempt after being hit and knocked around. . on a positive note, i will say i think his passing and court vision has improved

I think his finishing is getting better, in that he's learning to get his shot off in the paint, something he couldn't do his first year, or even last year. He'll get better at finishing as time goes on, but he's never gonna be great at it. He's learning how to get his shot over bigger guys, but I'm glad he doesn't just think he can out-jump people. He even gets to the line at a decent rate.

He ain't getting better at finishing around the rim. Smart don't have the touch or athleticism to be an average finisher.

[SichtingLives]

I told ya'll. He's the Kendrick Perkins of this team. And I mean that mostly in a good way, just that he has his limitations. I'm happy to have him on his rookie deal but when contract talks roll around, I'm definitely not overpaying to keep him.

[Northside Matt]

In '10-'11, the 62-20 Chicago Bulls had Keith Bogans, a non-offensive shooting guard, starting in all 82 games for them that season. He averaged only 4.4PPG, but also only took 307 shots on the year. I will also add that his FG% was .404 and .383 from deep.

In contrast, Marcus is coming off the bench, shooting .361 and .275, yet he's jacked up 710 shots this season. This cannot continue to happen for us to have success. The Bulls were able to utilize Bogans for his defense, keep his shots down to 3.7 attempts per game, and he knew his role and the coach didn't have him jacking up more shots than the better offensive players on the team. Smart is averaging nearly 10 shots per game. Unacceptable.

The Bulls limited Bogans shots because they limited his minutes. Bogans rarely saw the floor in the fourth quarter and other key situations. Thibs went with Kyle Korver or Ronnie Brewer because he wanted the offense. And we all know how much Thibs loves defense. If Marcus Smart is Keith Bogans, then the C's have problems.

Marcus Smart's skillset has been debated plenty through this thread and I see both sides. I think what gets lost is Marcus Smart living up to his 6th overall draft pick selection.

Does Smart provide enough value for the 6th pick in the draft? I'm not so sure. I think the Marcus Smart debate wouldn't be so divisive if he was a late-first or second round pick.

[robdog_5]

I feel like the 6th pick in the draft argument lacks context. People feel like the 6th pick your should get some time of gem. It's not been so for most years. Some years are deeper than others but outside the top 3 your hope is probably to get some rotational guy who can possibly be a productive starter at some point. Your not likely to get a star. Of all those picks below Lillard and Roy standout as guys who were stars. Battier, Szczerbiak, Gallinari were/are very productive NBA starters, the rest are washouts are nothing more than a bench warmer (Kaman had a couple of decent years). Smart is somewhere in between and is likely more close to the battier group than the washouts at this point. He's limited sure, but he gives you one great end of the floor and that will help him stick if the other end ever comes around to even be avg on the other end.


6th Overall NBA Draft Picks
Year Player Drafted From Drafted By
2013 Nerlens Noel Kentucky New Orleans
2012 Damian Lillard Weber St. Portland
2011 Jan Vesely Belgrade Washington
2010 Ekpe Udoh Baylor Golden State
2009 Jonny Flynn Syracuse Minnesota
2008 Danilo Gallinari Armani Jeans Milano New York
2007 Yi Jianlian China Milwaukee
2006 Brandon Roy Washington Minnesota
2005 Martell Webster WA HSSr. Portland
2004 Josh Childress Stanford Jr. Atlanta
2003 Chris Kaman Central Michigan Jr. LA Clippers
2002 Dajuan Wagner MemphisFr. Cleveland
2001 Shane Battier Duke Sr. Memphis
2000 DerMarr Johnson Cincinnati Fr. Atlanta
1999 Wally Szczerbiak

[TheOGJabroni]

I've been a huge Smart supporter but it's getting to a point where if we land the #1 pick and select Fultz, I would consider trading Smart as opposed to Bradley, despite the contract situation. Bradley can be frustrating due to missing games but when he's healthy, he's at worst our third best player.

He's also a better fit with both Fultz and Ball in the modern NBA.

[Celts17Pride]

Read on Twitter

[OFWGKTA]

Read on Twitter

Not to make excuses for Marcus, but part of this must be that he's been stuck in Brad's trash all bench player lineups that get the doors blown off them consistently.

[Banks2Pierce]

Bradley can be frustrating due to missing games but when he's healthy, he's at worst our third best player.

Crowder, IT, Horford easily. Smart as well. These arguments are usually fruitless, though! Bradley is also unrestricted and has a profile that's more likely to be paid. Bradley's older and can't play the 1 or the 3 and Smart can. Unless there's some questionable work ethic stuff going on in the background, it's an easy call to keep Smart around over AB.

[Green89]

In '10-'11, the 62-20 Chicago Bulls had Keith Bogans, a non-offensive shooting guard, starting in all 82 games for them that season. He averaged only 4.4PPG, but also only took 307 shots on the year. I will also add that his FG% was .404 and .383 from deep.

In contrast, Marcus is coming off the bench, shooting .361 and .275, yet he's jacked up 710 shots this season. This cannot continue to happen for us to have success. The Bulls were able to utilize Bogans for his defense, keep his shots down to 3.7 attempts per game, and he knew his role and the coach didn't have him jacking up more shots than the better offensive players on the team. Smart is averaging nearly 10 shots per game. Unacceptable.

The Bulls limited Bogans shots because they limited his minutes. Bogans rarely saw the floor in the fourth quarter and other key situations. Thibs went with Kyle Korver or Ronnie Brewer because he wanted the offense. And we all know how much Thibs loves defense. If Marcus Smart is Keith Bogans, then the C's have problems.

Marcus Smart's skillset has been debated plenty through this thread and I see both sides. I think what gets lost is Marcus Smart living up to his 6th overall draft pick selection.

Does Smart provide enough value for the 6th pick in the draft? I'm not so sure. I think the Marcus Smart debate wouldn't be so divisive if he was a late-first or second round pick.

Just as the Bulls did with Bogans, Stevens needs to do with Smart. Limit his minutes and especially limit his shots. The more floor time he sees while on the floor with IT in the playoffs, the more the other team's coach will be licking their chops and loving every second that they can double Thomas and leave Smart wide open. He may be in there to end games all regular season, but coaches will definitely exploit this in the final minutes of a playoff game.

Giving excessive minutes to Smart and excessive shot attempts will actually be a strategy other team's will hope for. It's their defense if Brad does it. Shooting .193 from deep going into the playoffs is disastrous. Other teams will start doubling anyone out there with Smart, even with IT on the bench. They are going to leave Smart open on the perimeter all playoffs.

[Celts17Pride]

In '10-'11, the 62-20 Chicago Bulls had Keith Bogans, a non-offensive shooting guard, starting in all 82 games for them that season. He averaged only 4.4PPG, but also only took 307 shots on the year. I will also add that his FG% was .404 and .383 from deep.

In contrast, Marcus is coming off the bench, shooting .361 and .275, yet he's jacked up 710 shots this season. This cannot continue to happen for us to have success. The Bulls were able to utilize Bogans for his defense, keep his shots down to 3.7 attempts per game, and he knew his role and the coach didn't have him jacking up more shots than the better offensive players on the team. Smart is averaging nearly 10 shots per game. Unacceptable.

The Bulls limited Bogans shots because they limited his minutes. Bogans rarely saw the floor in the fourth quarter and other key situations. Thibs went with Kyle Korver or Ronnie Brewer because he wanted the offense. And we all know how much Thibs loves defense. If Marcus Smart is Keith Bogans, then the C's have problems.

Marcus Smart's skillset has been debated plenty through this thread and I see both sides. I think what gets lost is Marcus Smart living up to his 6th overall draft pick selection.

Does Smart provide enough value for the 6th pick in the draft? I'm not so sure. I think the Marcus Smart debate wouldn't be so divisive if he was a late-first or second round pick.

Just as the Bulls did with Bogans, Stevens needs to do with Smart. Limit his minutes and especially limit his shots. The more floor time he sees while on the floor with IT in the playoffs, the more the other team's coach will be licking their chops and loving every second that they can double Thomas and leave Smart wide open. He may be in there to end games all regular season, but coaches will definitely exploit this in the final minutes of a playoff game.

Giving excessive minutes to Smart and excessive shot attempts will actually be a strategy other team's will hope for. It's their defense if Brad does it. Shooting .193 from deep going into the playoffs is disastrous. Other teams will start doubling anyone out there with Smart, even with IT on the bench. They are going to leave Smart open on the perimeter all playoffs.

You just described why you can't possibly give Smart $12-14 million per season.

[celticfan42487]

His complete lack of competence is kind of bringing me around to why we can keep IT and Bradley.

Rozier may be something one day, our 17 pick will hopefully be Ball or Fultz this year. We got time to pay these studs while surrounded by rookie contracts and let Smart walk away or see if someone offers more than a second rounder for him. I doubt that though. He's just someone you add once free agency dries up, not go out and get specifically.

[Dannyboy36]

Bradley can be frustrating due to missing games but when he's healthy, he's at worst our third best player.

Crowder, IT, Horford easily. Smart as well. These arguments are usually fruitless, though! Bradley is also unrestricted and has a profile that's more likely to be paid. Bradley's older and can't play the 1 or the 3 and Smart can. Unless there's some questionable work ethic stuff going on in the background, it's an easy call to keep Smart around over AB.

I think the poster meant our third best player RIGHT now. I guess there's a debate if crowder is better than Bradley but I don't think anyone thinks Smart is a better player than Bradley THIS year.

[Dannyboy36]

His complete lack of competence is kind of bringing me around to why we can keep IT and Bradley.

Rozier may be something one day, our 17 pick will hopefully be Ball or Fultz this year. We got time to pay these studs while surrounded by rookie contracts and let Smart walk away or see if someone offers more than a second rounder for him. I doubt that though. He's just someone you add once free agency dries up, not go out and get specifically.

My thinking ( pure speculation here)on this is that the Celts are gonna pay IT and they're going with him going forward. I think because Bradley will get( and deserves a pay day) he'll be gone. He should cost much more than smart.
However I'm not wanting them to pick Smart over Bradley, really but instead fill the #2 position with Tatum or Brown.
I think if the celts get any pick # 1-4 they're taking Tatum. I don't agree with it but I think that's what they'll do.
I'm just really hoping the pick doesn't fall out of the top 4.

[celticfan42487]

His complete lack of competence is kind of bringing me around to why we can keep IT and Bradley.

Rozier may be something one day, our 17 pick will hopefully be Ball or Fultz this year. We got time to pay these studs while surrounded by rookie contracts and let Smart walk away or see if someone offers more than a second rounder for him. I doubt that though. He's just someone you add once free agency dries up, not go out and get specifically.

My thinking ( pure speculation here)on this is that the Celts are gonna pay IT and they're going with him going forward. I think because Bradley will get( and deserves a pay day) he'll be gone. He should cost much more than smart.
However I'm not wanting them to pick Smart over Bradley, really but instead fill the #2 position with Tatum or Brown.
I think if the celts get any pick # 1-4 they're taking Tatum. I don't agree with it but I think that's what they'll do.
I'm just really hoping the pick doesn't fall out of the top 4.

Well I know the Nets are hot right now, but if they keep the worst record then the rules of the lottery will make it impossible to drop out of the top 4.

I personally think it's a pretty big cliff from Fultz to anyone else... so I'm pinning myself on a 75% chance that I'll feel like we lost a shot due to fate this year.

But people are really hyping up Ball. I've never been a fan of college ball because I can't see the transition to NBA ball easiely outside of shooting and rebounding. So I'll defer to the experts who think Ball is in the same tier of prospect as Fultz and be happy if we get at least one of them.

[Northside Matt]

I feel like the 6th pick in the draft argument lacks context. People feel like the 6th pick your should get some time of gem. It's not been so for most years. Some years are deeper than others but outside the top 3 your hope is probably to get some rotational guy who can possibly be a productive starter at some point. Your not likely to get a star. Of all those picks below Lillard and Roy standout as guys who were stars. Battier, Szczerbiak, Gallinari were/are very productive NBA starters, the rest are washouts are nothing more than a bench warmer (Kaman had a couple of decent years). Smart is somewhere in between and is likely more close to the battier group than the washouts at this point. He's limited sure, but he gives you one great end of the floor and that will help him stick if the other end ever comes around to even be avg on the other end.

Drafts aren't as deep as they used to be and it's harder to scout all the one and done prospects. I'll give you that. Keep in mind that Cousins, Curry, Thompson, DeRozan, Hayward, George, Lillard, and Drummond were all drafted between 5 and 11. If Ainge is going to keep all these picks to build the next Celtics winner, he needs to do better than Marcus Smart with that high draft pick.

Just as the Bulls did with Bogans, Stevens needs to do with Smart. Limit his minutes and especially limit his shots. The more floor time he sees while on the floor with IT in the playoffs, the more the other team's coach will be licking their chops and loving every second that they can double Thomas and leave Smart wide open. He may be in there to end games all regular season, but coaches will definitely exploit this in the final minutes of a playoff game.

Other teams don't even need to double Isaiah. Like last night, throw someone tall on him and it's a problem. Which makes it more important for a second wing player to get to the basket and create or finish. If only Marcus Smart could finish.

[Slartibartfast]

Read on Twitter

Not to make excuses for Marcus, but part of this must be that he's been stuck in Brad's trash all bench player lineups that get the doors blown off them consistently.

Yeah - this is true of a lot of guys but Smart's shot-selection tends to improve significantly when his offensive responsibility is smaller.

And Smart's aggression becomes a pretty massive negative when he's on a cold streak, doubly so when he's the focal point of the 2nd unit.

[Red2]

what's bradley done lately? his shooting is just as bad as marcus right now but no one seems to be getting on his case

[liveod]

^Yeah but Avery just got over flu dehydration or something