I'm Not High On....

[stitches]

Yeah that was a massive crow eating for me. Adams has been incredibly disappointing.

Has he been bad or... just didn't make the step forward people expected? I guess I never was totally sold on him as a future star. I liked him. I thought he's a solid player both on offense and defense, but I thought people took several great performances from the playoffs and just assumed he will play at that level from then on, when previously he never really played at that level for any prolonged stretch.

[Mystical Apples]

Yeah with Adams it depends on expectations and what teams are looking for. Clearly elite rim protectors who finish PnR are desirable but those guys don't grow on trees....it gets real thin after Gobert and Deandre.

I'd also prioritize elite playmaking 5's so Gasol and Jokic. But after that there's a case for young mobile bigs who accentuate - not eat or hinder - efficient usage from their perimeter teammates.

Viewed that way I'd rank Adams and Cody Zeller way higher than numbers suggest because DREBs and scoring can be achieved elsewhere, their mobility from 5 cannot.

You can find a thread or two around arguing about whose contract is better - Gobert or Adams'... Not insignificant portion of the people preferred Adams when those contracts were signed.

Adams probably received the NBA's version of a March Madness bump. Clearly Gobert is in another tier altogether.

Regardless, what a great draft class for centers....Gobert, Adams, Zeller, Noel, Olynyk, Noguiera, The Good Plumlee, lol Giannis when he wants, Dieng.

[bondom34]

Yeah that was a massive crow eating for me. Adams has been incredibly disappointing.

Has he been bad or... just didn't make the step forward people expected? I guess I never was totally sold on him as a future star. I liked him. I thought he's a solid player both on offense and defense, but I thought people took several great performances from the playoffs and just assumed he will play at that level from then on, when previously he never really played at that level for any prolonged stretch.

Just bad honestly . Last year the playoffs were nothing new, thats how he played 82 games. This year he's not even playing well sefensively, part of me wonders if he's hurt, but that doesn't seem it either. He's not a bad player, and not a bad contract at all, justdisappointed.

[Illmatic12]

Bondom , iirc you were also a high on a guy I've always been very low on .. Victor Oladipo

Oladipo is someone who I always felt typified the "good stats on a bad team" while in Orlando . Despite showing flashes of athleticism and raw production, imo his production was a direct result of having the ball a lot. He never showed any progression in his feel for the game or decision-making offensively, and his defense isn't where it should be for his physical tools. He's also turning 25yo in a few weeks, and at this point it looks like "he is what he is" rather than being a guy with All-Star potential.

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope - along the same lines as Oladipo, he's incredibly athletic and shows flashes but at some point you have to consistently display a well-rounded game and bball IQ. KCP is still pretty young so there's more hope for him, but I just don't like shooting guards who can't shoot (career .510 TS%). And I think he's a bit overrated defensively in my eyes. Pope is a good on-ball defender vs small/quick PGs, but cannot defend bigger SGs like Derozan. And he struggles with players like Beal or Thompson who run a lot of off-ball action through screens.

Andre Drummond - incredibly low on him as well especially with his contract. Terrible motor on defense, and just hasn't shown the bball IQ or drive to develop beyond a poor man's Deandre or an oversized Tristan Thompson.



Very high on..

Gary Harris - despite being undersized I love his game. Efficient, high energy, high IQ, and steadily improving every year. Pretty soon we'll be talking about him getting near-max offers in RFA

Brandon Ingram - size, length on defense, scoring instincts, passing vision + ballhandling are all there at a young age. Has a much higher ceiling than any other current Laker. Don't judge him too harshly yet, he's an infant basically and his body is underdeveloped at this stage.

Richaun Holmes - freaking love this guy. Great athleticism, energy, hustle, and his offense is really coming along. Earlier this season I nearly fell off my chair when I saw him hitting threes. He needs to get a bit stronger on the boards and more defensively sound , but his upside is a lot higher than many people would think.

[bondom34]

Bondom , iirc you were also a high on a guy I've always been very low on .. Victor Oladipo

Oladipo is someone who I always felt typified the "good stats on a bad team" while in Orlando . Despite showing flashes of athleticism and raw production, imo his production was a direct result of having the ball a lot. He never showed any progression in his feel for the game or decision-making offensively, and his defense isn't where it should be for his physical tools. He's also turning 25yo in a few weeks, and at this point it looks like "he is what he is" rather than being a guy with All-Star potential.

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope - along the same lines as Oladipo, he's incredibly athletic and shows flashes but at some point you have to consistently display a well-rounded game and bball IQ. KCP is still pretty young so there's more hope for him, but I just don't like shooting guards who can't shoot (career .510 TS%). And I think he's a bit overrated defensively in my eyes. Pope is a good on-ball defender vs small/quick PGs, but cannot defend bigger SGs like Derozan. And he struggles with players like Beal or Thompson who run a lot of off-ball action through screens.

Andre Drummond - incredibly low on him as well especially with his contract. Terrible motor on defense, and just hasn't shown the bball IQ or drive to develop beyond a poor man's Deandre or an oversized Tristan Thompson.



Very high on..

Gary Harris - despite being undersized I love his game. Efficient, high energy, high IQ, and steadily improving every year. Pretty soon we'll be talking about him getting near-max offers in RFA

Brandon Ingram - size, length on defense, scoring instincts, passing vision + ballhandling are all there at a young age. Has a much higher ceiling than any other current Laker. Don't judge him too harshly yet, he's an infant basically and his body is underdeveloped at this stage.

Richaun Holmes - freaking love this guy. Great athleticism, energy, hustle, and his offense is really coming along. Earlier this season I nearly fell off my chair when I saw him hitting threes. He needs to get a bit stronger on the boards and more defensively sound , but his upside is a lot higher than many people would think.

Yep, I'm still high on Dipo. He's been one of the best defenders on OKC and outside finishing at the rim I've really liked him a lot. I'm at this point higher on him than Adams by a good margin, his 3 pointer has looked nice and his RPM numbers are fantastic.

[Illmatic12]

Yep, I'm still high on Dipo. He's been one of the best defenders on OKC and outside finishing at the rim I've really liked him a lot. I'm at this point higher on him than Adams by a good margin, his 3 pointer has looked nice and his RPM numbers are fantastic.

Idk.. I just do not see it with Oladipo. Have you seen any improvement in his decision-making? He just doesn't make good decisions with the ball, I have a hard time seeing him ever being trustworthy as handling a greater share of offense.

If his defense has improved that's a positive, because he wasn't very good on that end in Orlando.

His shooting has definitely gotten better, maybe he can somehow reinvent himself as a nice offball player. But I can't shake the feeling that his athleticism will go to waste if he doesn't learn how to create efficiently and finish at the rim (another issue that has plagued him). He isn't that young either.. dude is 25yo, not really a prospect at this point.

I would prefer Adams a lot more personally, imo he's still young enough that one off year doesn't cap his potential yet.

[bondom34]

Yep, I'm still high on Dipo. He's been one of the best defenders on OKC and outside finishing at the rim I've really liked him a lot. I'm at this point higher on him than Adams by a good margin, his 3 pointer has looked nice and his RPM numbers are fantastic.

Idk.. I just do not see it with Oladipo. Have you seen any improvement in his decision-making? He just doesn't make good decisions with the ball, I have a hard time seeing him ever being trustworthy as handling a greater share of offense.

If his defense has improved that's a positive, because he wasn't very good on that end in Orlando.

His shooting has definitely gotten better, maybe he can somehow reinvent himself as a nice offball player. But I can't shake the feeling that his athleticism will go to waste if he doesn't learn how to create efficiently and finish at the rim (another issue that has plagued him). He isn't that young either.. dude is 25yo, not really a prospect at this point.

I would prefer Adams a lot more personally, imo he's still young enough that one off year doesn't cap his potential yet.

He's been good decision making wise, but don't know what you mean on defense, he was good last year in Orlando and has been fantastic this year. When he went out hurt for a couple games they were lost, and he's sitting 5th in DRPM (7th in RPM) among SGs. I love him on that contract personally. I know on the OKC board a few guys wanted McCollum but I wouldn't do it straight up the more I've seen of Dipo.

[NashtyNas]

Not high on:


Brook Lopez - despite stringing together some games, I don't trust his health and although he's good at what he does, his skillset is just not as valuable as it once was in the NBA. I don't think any team should give up a 1st for him, but someone probably will.

Wondering what this means as he is one of the best 3 point shooting bigs in the game (who is going to fall just short of Dirk's record as a 7 footer) and is best as a face up player taking his man off the dribble.. and is putting up some of his best efficiency in the fastest pace offense in the NBA. Basically he's got the game of a SF in a 7'1 260 pound body. He's not a good back to the basket/back his man down post up player and gone away from that for a few years. He's also become a much better passing C and been healthy for years as one of the more durable C's during that span. Seems his game became more valuable this season with the added 3 at minumum, no?

Which is the problem. He doesn't rebound well, he's not a plus help defender, he's not a shot blocker, and his offensive game is that of a small forward. The 3's definitely help because at least he provides spacing and as you said he's a great passing C... but for a team to be successful with a guy like Lopez, you need the perfect cast around him. You need a Draymond at your 4 to anchor the D and you need an excellent slashing guard to make use of the space he creates.

You're free to disagree, that's the whole point of this thread. Stating opinions that the majority don't agree with.

If he was the defender that Gasol was or could rebound at least at an average rate for his size, we would be having a different conversation.

[BringtheD]

Not high on:


Brook Lopez - despite stringing together some games, I don't trust his health and although he's good at what he does, his skillset is just not as valuable as it once was in the NBA. I don't think any team should give up a 1st for him, but someone probably will.

Wondering what this means as he is one of the best 3 point shooting bigs in the game (who is going to fall just short of Dirk's record as a 7 footer) and is best as a face up player taking his man off the dribble.. and is putting up some of his best efficiency in the fastest pace offense in the NBA. Basically he's got the game of a SF in a 7'1 260 pound body. He's not a good back to the basket/back his man down post up player and gone away from that for a few years. He's also become a much better passing C and been healthy for years as one of the more durable C's during that span. Seems his game became more valuable this season with the added 3 at minumum, no?

Which is the problem. He doesn't rebound well, he's not a plus help defender, he's not a shot blocker, and his offensive game is that of a small forward. The 3's definitely help because at least he provides spacing and as you said he's a great passing C... but for a team to be successful with a guy like Lopez, you need the perfect cast around him. You need a Draymond at your 4 to anchor the D and you need an excellent slashing guard to make use of the space he creates.

You're free to disagree, that's the whole point of this thread. Stating opinions that the majority don't agree with.

If he was the defender that Gasol was or could rebound at least at an average rate for his size, we would be having a different conversation.

hes actually not half bad at blocking shots. i wouldn't call him a major deterent at the rim, but hes seen enough to know how to make people miss and get some blocks. offensively, i consider him a wizard. he can basically get u points from anywhere on the court. not that hes unstoppable scorer, but he's better than most centers in my eyes as far as that end of the game is concerned. come to think of it, he'd be a good fit in washington. he could challenge gortat and make that team better. his best fit is probably as a backup somewhere. in any situation, he's a valuable addition to your roster whether starting or coming off the bench. of course, this is not considering the whole of the equation, just the impact he will bring when he's on the court. if u have to throw a bunch of money at him u might want to think twice.

[LoyalKing]

Not high

Andre Drummond - won the genetic lottery, but he is weak mentally. Too many flaws on his game as a C to be successful in a championship team. Amazing rebounder, but atrocious FT shooter, very basic offensive game with dunks and putbacks and not good defensively despite his amazing tools. Pretty much the definition of a fool's gold player who's going to get paid a lot during his NBA career, but will never achieve anything.

Steven Adams - got massively overrated by OKC fans because the Spurs series when he faced a smalish/very old front-court. Not a bad player, but the early comparisons with Rudy Gobert are really far from the reality. He is a more durable Tiago Splitter getting max money.

Wiggins - just a Rudy Gay clone. He will never be the superstar people thought he would be. Terrible defender considering his tools and to me he doesn't play very smart. Totally relies on his athleticism, much like Gay.

high

Jokic - just a natural player. His BBIQ is off the charts and his fundamentals and passing skills are great. To me he is a franchise C.

Hood - Has a nack to score. down year after after a serious injury, but I still believe in his game. I think he can be a top 5 SG in the NBA pretty easily.

[Chinook]

Not high on:

Jonathon Simmons: Dude is just not a good player, but the league still hasn't gotten over his game opening night. Dude has night flashes, but he'll be 28 at the start of next season.

Derrick Favors: Dude's been in the league way too long for folks to keep looking at the future with him. If he weren't injured, he'd be like a fourth- or fifth-tier player. But he's not, and even when he's not injured, he's not as good on either end as people say he is.

Decent players on cheap deals: Someone's already brought this up with Crowder, but I'll add Covington to the list as well. Simply put, in the NBA, being cheap isn't nearly as valuable as it is in like the NFL. Sure, having a guy making way below market value is good for the cap and for trading, but it's not worth the huge value boost most give to it. Honestly, now that the cap seems to be much lower than projected, I don't think it matters much at all.

High on:

Pau Gasol: A lot of "smart" NBA thinkers tried to say Pau was a poor signing by SA. Dude's been everything PATFO hoped he was and more.

Markieff Morris: Dunno if people think he's playing poorly in Washington, but I imagine a lot of folks wrote him off after what happened in Phoenix. I think he's a big key to what they're trying to do over there.

Quincy Acy: Dude's a gamer.

[Monky15]

High on
Tall perimeter players that can D at least 3 positions and shoot 3s.
Butler who is on an amazing deal and is a borderline superstar.
M Chriss from the suns. So versatile.

Down on
Dieng. I was high when he wasn't overpaid but now I'm worried he will be a rich mans Jason Thompson. (Kings then journeyman)
KCP. Not a #1 scorer, not big, quick, or long enough to be an elite defender against non similair sized player. Rich mans courtny lee.
Drawing contact. I would like for it to be that if a defender commits to an open space(jumps) first and arms and legs are vertical then you can't draw a foul. Having the defender fully committed should be reward enough.

[Illmatic12]

Yep, I'm still high on Dipo. He's been one of the best defenders on OKC and outside finishing at the rim I've really liked him a lot. I'm at this point higher on him than Adams by a good margin, his 3 pointer has looked nice and his RPM numbers are fantastic.

Idk.. I just do not see it with Oladipo. Have you seen any improvement in his decision-making? He just doesn't make good decisions with the ball, I have a hard time seeing him ever being trustworthy as handling a greater share of offense.

If his defense has improved that's a positive, because he wasn't very good on that end in Orlando.

His shooting has definitely gotten better, maybe he can somehow reinvent himself as a nice offball player. But I can't shake the feeling that his athleticism will go to waste if he doesn't learn how to create efficiently and finish at the rim (another issue that has plagued him). He isn't that young either.. dude is 25yo, not really a prospect at this point.

I would prefer Adams a lot more personally, imo he's still young enough that one off year doesn't cap his potential yet.

He's been good decision making wise, but don't know what you mean on defense, he was good last year in Orlando and has been fantastic this year. When he went out hurt for a couple games they were lost, and he's sitting 5th in DRPM (7th in RPM) among SGs. I love him on that contract personally. I know on the OKC board a few guys wanted McCollum but I wouldn't do it straight up the more I've seen of Dipo.

Actually I remember all of Oladipo's defensive numbers being slightly below average or average every year in Orlando. It looks like he's taken a bigger step this year for sure on that end, because he wasn't good prior to this year.

His contract is a bonus if he continues to improve. He's probably the most movable piece if they're looking to get a true #2 for Russ

[bondom34]

Idk.. I just do not see it with Oladipo. Have you seen any improvement in his decision-making? He just doesn't make good decisions with the ball, I have a hard time seeing him ever being trustworthy as handling a greater share of offense.

If his defense has improved that's a positive, because he wasn't very good on that end in Orlando.

His shooting has definitely gotten better, maybe he can somehow reinvent himself as a nice offball player. But I can't shake the feeling that his athleticism will go to waste if he doesn't learn how to create efficiently and finish at the rim (another issue that has plagued him). He isn't that young either.. dude is 25yo, not really a prospect at this point.

I would prefer Adams a lot more personally, imo he's still young enough that one off year doesn't cap his potential yet.

He's been good decision making wise, but don't know what you mean on defense, he was good last year in Orlando and has been fantastic this year. When he went out hurt for a couple games they were lost, and he's sitting 5th in DRPM (7th in RPM) among SGs. I love him on that contract personally. I know on the OKC board a few guys wanted McCollum but I wouldn't do it straight up the more I've seen of Dipo.

Actually I remember all of Oladipo's defensive numbers being slightly below average or average every year in Orlando. It looks like he's taken a bigger step this year for sure on that end, because he wasn't good prior to this year.

His contract is a bonus if he continues to improve. He's probably the most movable piece if they're looking to get a true #2 for Russ

Yeah, I think this offseason is interesting and from the way they've talked seems he's more likely moved than Adams. Which I'll gladly admit Steven's my 2nd favorite player but right now he's not playing near as well as VO. I thought his defensive metrics were solid last year in Orlando too, though maybe I'm mistaken. Today's update he's top 5 in RPM for SGs, he's not the best scoring option but man he's been great defensively and solid enough offensively I'm not really liking trading him unless there's a great deal. Not many guards I'd rather than him right now, and none attainable I can think of (though talk on the OKC board and some guys want Otto from you).

[Illmatic12]

He's been good decision making wise, but don't know what you mean on defense, he was good last year in Orlando and has been fantastic this year. When he went out hurt for a couple games they were lost, and he's sitting 5th in DRPM (7th in RPM) among SGs. I love him on that contract personally. I know on the OKC board a few guys wanted McCollum but I wouldn't do it straight up the more I've seen of Dipo.

Actually I remember all of Oladipo's defensive numbers being slightly below average or average every year in Orlando. It looks like he's taken a bigger step this year for sure on that end, because he wasn't good prior to this year.

His contract is a bonus if he continues to improve. He's probably the most movable piece if they're looking to get a true #2 for Russ

Yeah, I think this offseason is interesting and from the way they've talked seems he's more likely moved than Adams. Which I'll gladly admit Steven's my 2nd favorite player but right now he's not playing near as well as VO. I thought his defensive metrics were solid last year in Orlando too, though maybe I'm mistaken. Today's update he's top 5 in RPM for SGs, he's not the best scoring option but man he's been great defensively and solid enough offensively I'm not really liking trading him unless there's a great deal. Not many guards I'd rather than him right now, and none attainable I can think of (though talk on the OKC board and some guys want Otto from you).

Idk if Oladipo would be a fit for the Wiz. But something based around Porter for Adams could be interesting (I doubt it would ever materialize on either side though)

[bondom34]

Actually I remember all of Oladipo's defensive numbers being slightly below average or average every year in Orlando. It looks like he's taken a bigger step this year for sure on that end, because he wasn't good prior to this year.

His contract is a bonus if he continues to improve. He's probably the most movable piece if they're looking to get a true #2 for Russ

Yeah, I think this offseason is interesting and from the way they've talked seems he's more likely moved than Adams. Which I'll gladly admit Steven's my 2nd favorite player but right now he's not playing near as well as VO. I thought his defensive metrics were solid last year in Orlando too, though maybe I'm mistaken. Today's update he's top 5 in RPM for SGs, he's not the best scoring option but man he's been great defensively and solid enough offensively I'm not really liking trading him unless there's a great deal. Not many guards I'd rather than him right now, and none attainable I can think of (though talk on the OKC board and some guys want Otto from you).

Idk if Oladipo would be a fit for the Wiz. But something based around Porter for Adams could be interesting (I doubt it would ever materialize on either side though)

Yeah it would be tough as a sign and trade, but I'd honestly think of that more than Dipo if they could find another big somewhere. Though Porter being RFA pretty well makes a sign and trade impossible I'd think.

[Dupp]

Not high on

1) Aaron Gordan: I see lots of potential talk and what not and i just dont see it at all, wheres the upside to his game? Seems like he could be blake griffin without the skill. Which isnt a very good player.

2) Kevin Love: Got a lot of love from people this season. I dont see it. His stats far outweigh his impact. Not a big game / moment player. More likely to disapear in those moments.

Can't think of a third atm but im sure someone will come to mind.

[the_process]

I would say rather than indivduals there are types of players I like and dislike. But I will give a few examples of players who fit in those groups.

Low on:

1) Lillard
2) DeRozan
3) Okafor
4) Hield
5) DSJ

High on:

1) McLemore
2) Noel
3) Covington
4) Ingram
5) Tatum

Yes, I realize I am the last Ben McLemore fan. To me, he is the epitome of a guy that if he had went to another team he would have developed and be viewed completely differently. Not ready to throw in the towel on his physical tools.

[babyjax13]

I'm high on:
1) Thaddeus Young
In terms of undervalued stretch 4's I think he is up there. He is an incredible perimeter defender, allows for a lot of switching, and is the main reason Indiana is good defensively.
2) DeRozan
I like "anti-meta" players that are efficient where others aren't. It looks strange from an advance stats standpoint because it undervalues impact, but you have teams like the Rockets who take that approach and only shoot close to the hoop and from three. They run into teams like the Grizzlies and Jazz that force you into midrange shots and get buzzsawed. I think DeRozan has a larger impact than stats let on. Speaking of which ...
3) Gorgui Dieng
The advance defensive analytics that NBA.com has rate him very highly. Contests a ton of shots. I like that he has a midrange jumper and that he can hit a 3 every few games on decent percentages. I'm not claiming he is a great player, but I do think he is worth his contract, and on the right team worth his contract and then some...but could probably be gotten for a minimal outlay.
4) Jimmy Butler
For I think obvious reasons. He is a star paid like an average starter.
5) Mike Conley
I know, I know, the contract. But he is a smart, cerebral player and I love watching him.

Low on:
1) Paul George
He is a great player, but has been surpassed this season by both Jimmy Butler and Gordon Hayward. Despite that he is still talked about in many circles like he is more valuable than both. I just don't see it.
2) Brandon Ingram
Felt this way before the draft and now. Hope he proves me wrong, but I don't see Kevin Durant. I see a potentially good player, but not nearly on that level.
3) Dennis Schroeder
He's a turnover machine and doesn't have the defensive impact to make up for it. He's also a below-average perimeter shooter but bombs away out there. I think there is still a lot of development to make him an above-average starter in this league.

[shawn_hemp]

I'm not sure if this thread is about players who are in trade rumors of just players in general but anyway

Not high on (and keep in mind this is just me being really picky here, all of these guys are at least decent players):

Kristaps Porzingis - feel like he has exceeded expectations, but they were also really low to begin with. I think he will just be a decent rotation player as time goes on. Can't see him being the starter on a serious playoff contender

Jusuf Nurkic - he's not a great defender and gets most of his points due to overpowering guys. He doesn't have the finesse to consistently get points in the paint against legit centers IMO, nor the athleticism to be a good defender. Reminds me a little of Nikola Pekovic

Isiah Thomas - he's a really good shooter. Seems like a good character guy. Not sure what else he can bring to the table. And to be a franchise player you have to bring more than that

Damian Lillard - same deal

Gordon Hayward - doesn't seem to be a good enough shooter to outweigh his lack of elite athleticism.

Guys I'm high on:

Avery Bradley - I think the Celtics would make a huge mistake moving on from AB and keeping IT. Gotta love the metric pushing crowd who seriously think Bradley is not a good defender. Has shot well from 3 this year. Great motor. Would love to have this guy on my team

Kemba Walker - plays on an offensively anemic team, especially with Zeller out. Really hope he can get out of Charlotte. Feel like he isn't even talked about anymore yet he's averaging 23ppg shooting .402 from 3.

Joel Embiid - call me a homer I don't care. When this guy is actually playing, he is the best center in the league. You can say Gobert is a better defender or Cousins a better scorer, but not by much. Joel is the complete package.

Justise Winslow - I think he has the build and athleticism to become the next Iguodala type of defender. Probably won't ever be much of a threat from distance, but having the ability to limit opposing SFs in the playoffs is never a bad tool to have in your back pocket (Iguodala, Kawhi, LeBron all play great defense)