2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread Pt 3 (season finale)

[TMU]

I blame Harden's teammates and D'Antoni for not coming up rebounding schemes to allow Harden to average a triple double.

[K_chile22]

So the Rockets and Thunder will officially meetup in the first round, which then I just realized that we're gonna witness the top two MVP candidates square off at the start of the postseason when everyone is at their most spry.

Good thing we won't have any idea which one won the award for the fun story lines because the nba wants to have a stupid award show way after everything's over.

[ChartFiction]

I blame Harden's teammates and D'Antoni for not coming up rebounding schemes to allow Harden to average a triple double.

They came up with a bunch of others to inflate his stats though so no worries. D'Antoni's a pro at it.

I wouldn't even be that upset if Harden won it, but Rockets fans are unbearable.

[TMU]

I blame Harden's teammates and D'Antoni for not coming up rebounding schemes to allow Harden to average a triple double.

They came up with a bunch of others to inflate his stats though so no worries. D'Antoni's a pro at it.

I wouldn't even be that upset if Harden won it, but Rockets fans are unbearable.

And it's okay for your to lump all Rockets fans as such? Don't act like you won't be upset if Harden wins it, your comment clearly suggest otherwise.

If you have looked at my previous posts, I have clearly stated that Westbrook and Harden are the top 2 candidates for me this year without preference of one over the other. Harden isn't even my favorite player on the Rockets, and I'm not even trying to argue that Westbrook is undeserving of the MVP here. He's a favorite, but all the recent arguments have been that he deserves it because he's now averaging a triple double. Even the odds in Vegas has increased in his favor since he's locked to average a triple double.

My previous comment was not to downplay Westbrook but to raise a question, what would happen if Harden was also averaging a triple double? The argument should be just beyond the triple doubles. My argument was to point out it's much beyond the simple metrics and any advanced metrics can be spun in any argument. Let me play Devil's advocate and argue that Westbrook is also shooting 42% and averaging 8.5 uncontested rebounds. His team is a 6th seed. Hell, Oscar Robertson didn't win MVPs even when he averaged triple doubles.

The inconsistency in the arguments of this thread is what bothers Rockets fans. Historically the award has been given to players from a Top seed with significant consideration to team records, and now people are discrediting Harden because he plays for MDA or that he has a better team (weren't the Rockets supposed to be a lottery team this year?) or because he's averaging 2 RPG fewer than Westbrook? Let's not act like the Rockets fans are the only villains here. The irrational hate against Harden and the Rockets is clearly strong.

[TMU]

So the Rockets and Thunder will officially meetup in the first round, which then I just realized that we're gonna witness the top two MVP candidates square off at the start of the postseason when everyone is at their most spry.

Good thing we won't have any idea which one won the award for the fun story lines because the nba wants to have a stupid award show way after everything's over.

Agreed. It's stupid. It's a regular season award, but you won't think that there will be some playoffs bias factored into the award? I think voting should end a few days after season ends.

[K_chile22]

So the Rockets and Thunder will officially meetup in the first round, which then I just realized that we're gonna witness the top two MVP candidates square off at the start of the postseason when everyone is at their most spry.

Good thing we won't have any idea which one won the award for the fun story lines because the nba wants to have a stupid award show way after everything's over.

Agreed. It's stupid. It's a regular season award, but you won't think that there will be some playoffs bias factored into the award? I think voting should end a few days after season ends.

Voting is still right after the season, we just won't know who won until after the playoffs

[NaturalBuns]

I blame Harden's teammates and D'Antoni for not coming up rebounding schemes to allow Harden to average a triple double.

I know your a rockets fan and harden has had a MVP worthy season but cmon...

We haven't seen a avg triple double in 60+ years. It's literally historic and you can spin in that his team lets him grab rebounds whatever. it's still very historic and history shows we won't see this preformance in our life time again.

Grasp that for a second.

[Teckon]

I blame Harden's teammates and D'Antoni for not coming up rebounding schemes to allow Harden to average a triple double.

I know your a rockets fan and harden has had a MVP worthy season but cmon...

We haven't seen a avg triple double in 60+ years. It's literally historic and you can spin in that his team lets him grab rebounds whatever. it's still very historic and history shows we won't see this preformance in our life time again.

Grasp that for a second.

it's sad that Harden has also some stats (29-11-8) that is historical, not being done by anyone for the same 60+ years but has not been recognised! These stats by Harden may also not be seen in our life time again.

Grasp that for another second!

[asero]

If Houston is already up 3-0 in the first round, would the media still vote for Westbrook?
I know the voting will be around last week of April

[inquisitive]

Good thing we won't have any idea which one won the award for the fun story lines because the nba wants to have a stupid award show way after everything's over.

Agreed. It's stupid. It's a regular season award, but you won't think that there will be some playoffs bias factored into the award? I think voting should end a few days after season ends.

Voting is still right after the season, we just won't know who won until after the playoffs

We should know by sonetine during 1st round

[warriorschamps]

If Houston is already up 3-0 in the first round, would the media still vote for Westbrook?
I know the voting will be around last week of April

It's a regular season award. The ballots will already been turned in, so that would have zero impact.

[Doctor MJ]

I blame Harden's teammates and D'Antoni for not coming up rebounding schemes to allow Harden to average a triple double.

I know your a rockets fan and harden has had a MVP worthy season but cmon...

We haven't seen a avg triple double in 60+ years. It's literally historic and you can spin in that his team lets him grab rebounds whatever. it's still very historic and history shows we won't see this preformance in our life time again.

Grasp that for a second.

Wow. Grasp for a second that the thing that you and other fetishize is arbitrary, specifically chased by the player in question for reasons that have nothing to do with winning, and differentiated from his lead competitor only in that particular inflated stat.

Westbrook has a great case for MVP, but you need to stop talking like other people are struggling to grasp a concept, because focusing on stuff like this is indicative of a novice's level of understanding.


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[Jim Naismith]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19117727/nba-espn-forecast-predictions-nba-mvp

[Patches Perry]

The inconsistency in the arguments of this thread is what bothers Rockets fans. Historically the award has been given to players from a Top seed with significant consideration to team records, and now people are discrediting Harden because he plays for MDA or that he has a better team (weren't the Rockets supposed to be a lottery team this year?) or because he's averaging 2 RPG fewer than Westbrook? Let's not act like the Rockets fans are the only villains here. The irrational hate against Harden and the Rockets is clearly strong.

There is no inconsistency because there is no set criteria. The only consistent criteria would either reward Curry another MVP (best player on best team) or Westbrook (best individual season statistically). Anything in between is contrived and will be whimsical.

The irony here is that triple doubles are arbitrary, but so is this magical combination of individual success and team success that rewards Harden the MVP. Why Harden over Westbrook because of team success but not Curry/Leonard over Harden? Spurs are 8 games better than the Rockets and Rockets are 8 games better than OKC, yet Spurs and Rockets are "top teams" and Thunder don't clear the threshold. Totally arbitrary.

People will vote, maybe Harden will win and if he does that's fine. If he doesn't win, it's no injustice or inconsistency, because the criteria you're appealing to to favor Harden is in itself inconsistent.

[Kevin Johnson]

I swear Daryl Morey started a subversive smear campaign to undermine Westbrook's achievement. It feels like a lot of posters here are moles placed by Morey to discredit Westbrook and ridicule him

[HotRocks34]

It seems almost a done deal at this point.

The last Harden "push," I think, will be that he is on course to break the "Points Scored + Points Assisted" record for a single-season. So that could be Harden's last shot at re-gaining the narrative.

It's just such a freak occurrence to get 30/10/10 playing at a sub-100 pace. I don't know if that can be overcome in this case.

Still, if Westbrook doesn't break the triple double record and Harden gets the "Points Scored + Points Assisted" season record, then I think there still could be a scenario where Harden comes in and snatches the award at the finish line.

I think it will be difficult for that to happen, but I do think there is still a 'window' here for Harden to get the job done at the very end.

[DarkAzcura]

I swear Daryl Morey started a subversive smear campaign to undermine Westbrook's achievement. It feels like a lot of posters here are moles placed by Morey to discredit Westbrook and ridicule him

Are you serious?

Harden is easily the MVP to me. Westbrook is having a historic year, but Harden's team is better and is only 2 rebounds per game short of a triple double average himself. Does that make me a Morey mole?

Honestly I think it is the reverse. The lengths people are going to not give Harden credit for this season is kind of scary. His team is 8 games better in the W-L column and most analysts had OKC finishing higher than Houston in the summer. I'm actually shocked Harden isn't running away with this award to be honest considering previous logic with the award. When was the last time a player on a < 50 win team won MVP?

[Alienware]

I swear Daryl Morey started a subversive smear campaign to undermine Westbrook's achievement. It feels like a lot of posters here are moles placed by Morey to discredit Westbrook and ridicule him

Are you serious?

Harden is easily the MVP to me. Westbrook is having a historic year, but Harden's team is better and is only 2 rebounds per game short of a triple double average himself. Does that make me a Morey mole?

Honestly I think it is the reverse. The lengths people are going to not give Harden credit for this season is kind of scary. His team is 8 games better in the W-L column and most analysts had OKC finishing higher than Houston in the summer. I'm actually shocked Harden isn't running away with this award to be honest considering previous logic with the award. When was the last time a player on a < 50 win team won MVP?

One could actually answer your last sentence with "when was the last time a player averaged a triple double?" but I actually agree with you, Harden should be the MVP.



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[ocelot17]

It's incredibly frustrating to have harden lose the MVP for completely opposing reasons, in 2015 he lost to curry who had two other allstars and amazing defenders all around him because they had the better record even though harden carried an injury riddled roster to the second seed, and now that harden is on the other side with the 3rd best record, the media wants to side with the guy with the 45-34 record because his teammates are slightly worse and has 2 extra rebounds.

[DarkAzcura]

I swear Daryl Morey started a subversive smear campaign to undermine Westbrook's achievement. It feels like a lot of posters here are moles placed by Morey to discredit Westbrook and ridicule him

Are you serious?

Harden is easily the MVP to me. Westbrook is having a historic year, but Harden's team is better and is only 2 rebounds per game short of a triple double average himself. Does that make me a Morey mole?

Honestly I think it is the reverse. The lengths people are going to not give Harden credit for this season is kind of scary. His team is 8 games better in the W-L column and most analysts had OKC finishing higher than Houston in the summer. I'm actually shocked Harden isn't running away with this award to be honest considering previous logic with the award. When was the last time a player on a < 50 win team won MVP?

One could actually answer your last sentence with "when was the last time a player averaged a triple double?" but I actually agree with you, Harden should be the MVP.



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Oh I know. Let me say, I think Westbrook is deserving of the award. I just think it is nuts that some people think the fact that only 60% of analysts (aka the majority) thinking Westbrook should win MVP is some type of slight. Like come on. Just because some think Harden should win doesn't mean we are some type of Morey mole roaming the internet spreading his message.

And Harden got the short end of the stick two seasons ago even though he was statistically superior but on a worse team. It's like opposite reasoning. If any 'conspiracy' actually existed, it would be against Harden not Westbrook.