Game 79: Minnesota Timberwolves (31-47) @ Utah Jazz (48-30) - 9:00 PM ET

[Klomp]

Are they supposed to be winning a lot now without Belly and Lavine?

Don't you remember, Zach was holding this team back! Once he went out of the lineup the Wolves were going to go on a 40-game winning streak! Since they haven't, it's obviously the coach's fault....

[Sugarless]

I've never liked coaches or GMs that just stand pat for the sake of it, not when they're losing. The team lacks quality players? That's on Thibs. He had a high pick, money, roster spots and a few valuable pieces last summer, and decided to create a roster that's barely better than last season's (despite all of the young guys having one more year of experience), and one that has even less high-character veterans. He also hasn't done anything to strengthen the roster or even shake it a bit during the season except for signing two FAs coming off injuries. And he hasn't done anything either from a coaching standpoint, other than finally taking Rubio off a corner. He's just kept the same systems, same style and mostly the same rotations all year long (except when forced by injuries), even as the team kept losing and wasting double digit leads.

Since the moment he signed nearly a year ago, and despite the extremely evident strengths and weaknesses of the roster at that point, Thibs hasn't done anything that sticks out, he's been happy to make just a few ordinary, bland moves or no moves at all. He's decided to stay stuck in mediocrity, and the results have been exactly as predicted. I don't like mediocrity, not after 13 years of it (or worse than that). I know some people will keep making excuses for not taking any chances neither before nor during the season (just like every single year), but like or not, he's the coach and president of basketball operations of this team, he gets a few million dollars every year to succeed, and when we continue to suck instead, the first one to blame is him.

So, would you prefer the alternative where Thibs added Loul Deng and Courtney Lee? There are all these criticisms, but I have yet to hear any real solutions to any of the problems. Thibs also has Rubio playing the best of his career, but he won't get any credit for that, but will get all the credit for Rubio's play at the beginning of the season. It has only been a single season with Thibs in charge, I would prefer him being patient instead of doing silly things that limit this team going forward. I would advise maybe waiting another offseason before coming to conclusions on what type of job Thibs is doing. You can be critical, but to say nothing has improved is silly.

Wait, who says that's the alternative? Speculation by some fans because they think Thibs is going to sign every single former Bull that is out there, from Deng to Noah to Gibson?

No, I didn't want Deng at 17M per year or even close. Lee at 12M? That's a valuable contract for a durable 3-pt specialist who's also a decent defender at the wing. Marvin Williams? Definitely. Trevor Booker at 18M/2Y? Yep. Other guys like Joe Johnson, Jared Dudley, Brandon Bass... would have been excellent veteran additions too, just what we needed for such a young team.

And that's when it comes to free agents. But let's not obviate there's been a full year of not seeing any improvement through trades either, and a 5th pick on a weak draft that was a wasted opportunity of getting a valuable veteran or several pieces from the Sixers, including two guys that would have been great in this roster.

See, you can make excuses as long as you want. You can continue to preach patience year after year, not take a risk hoping that everything will pan out, because not doing anything always gives you the option to say you haven't handcuffed your future. And you're entitled to it, no doubt. But 99% of the time that's a sure way to mediocrity, and that's where the Timberwolves are, once again. You see improvement? Definite, measurable, valuable? You think we're so much better now than last year at this point? Well, show me where.

PS: Rubio is playing exactly as he always has, only looking for his shot more after the team lost a 20PPG scorer. Same all out effort, same defense, same magistery passing the ball, and the same improved efficiency he had the second half of last season. Not sure why Thibodeau should get credit for that.

[Zeitgeister]

Just another game lost to awful defense, with yet another All-Star wing molesting Wiggins, who's becoming one of the most overrated guys in the league. Just an inefficient scorer who can't pass, can't make his FTs, is usually the opposite of clutch, can't and won't defend, can't rebound, hasn't improved his handle one bit since he left high-school... Yep, basically the same some of us were saying right around this point last year, which is the biggest knock on him beyond any other particular flaw in his game: he just doesn't get better. He simply shoots more, and that's about it.

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He's mostly the same player he's been since the last 57ish games of his rookie season, with very little improvement along with your standard statistical variance between seasons. His three point shooting and lower turnover rate are the biggest positives, but the three point shooting doesn't move the needle that much because #1 he still doesn't take a lot of threes compared to todays standards and his free throw rate has dropped a lot, so his efficiency has remained mostly the same. His lower turnover rate is nice to see though. Anyway even with that considered, a lot of the advanced statistics say he's a below average player. I think generally, at this point most guys that are going to be stars in the league will most definitely have a consistent positive impact on the court by their third season and Wiggins hasn't done that yet.

[TheProdigy]

PS: Rubio is playing exactly as he always has, only looking for his shot more after the team lost a 20PPG scorer. Same all out effort, same defense, same magistery passing the ball, and the same improved efficiency he had the second half of last season.

Not only is Ricky looking for his shot more this season, but he's also MAKING a higher % of his shots from the field this season. Post all-star break, he's shooting 43.8% fg% this season vs. 39.6% fg% last season. That is a significant difference. So no, he's not playing "exactly as he always has".

[Mattya]

Wait, who says that's the alternative? Speculation by some fans because they think Thibs is going to sign every single former Bull that is out there, from Deng to Noah to Gibson?

No, I didn't want Deng at 17M per year or even close. Lee at 12M? That's a valuable contract for a durable 3-pt specialist who's also a decent defender at the wing. Marvin Williams? Definitely. Trevor Booker at 18M/2Y? Yep. Other guys like Joe Johnson, Jared Dudley, Brandon Bass... would have been excellent veteran additions too, just what we needed for such a young team.

So would you have paid those players more than they took with the teams they signed with? Trevor Booker is the only player you have listed that would have been a good signing, the rest are very "meh" suggestions especially if the Wolves have to start offering them higher salaries.

And that's when it comes to free agents. But let's not obviate there's been a full year of not seeing any improvement through trades either, and a 5th pick on a weak draft that was a wasted opportunity of getting a valuable veteran or several pieces from the Sixers, including two guys that would have been great in this roster.

Well it just seems that you are holding Thibs to an unusually high standard. I prefer to judge when there has been more than just a season of evaluation.

See, you can make excuses as long as you want. You can continue to preach patience year after year, not take a risk hoping that everything will pan out, because not doing anything always gives you the option to say you haven't handcuffed your future. And you're entitled to it, no doubt. But 99% of the time that's a sure way to mediocrity, and that's where the Timberwolves are, once again. You see improvement? Definite, measurable, valuable? You think we're so much better now than last year at this point? Well, show me where.

Well I don't know why we would hold Thibs to some ridiculous standard just because you are tired of losing because of previous management decisions. I will absolutely be critical next year if Thibs hasn't used our cap space to improve the team. That was the point of not giving out stupid contracts to players like Deng, Lee, or Marvin Williams. You have been making these comments for a while now, so if you can't even give the management even a season to evaluate and play it safe then I would guess that you just have unreasonable standards. I have been critical and complimentary when the team has deserved it, but the following makes me question your mentality here.

PS: Rubio is playing exactly as he always has, only looking for his shot more after the team lost a 20PPG scorer. Same all out effort, same defense, same magistery passing the ball, and the same improved efficiency he had the second half of last season. Not sure why Thibodeau should get credit for that.

Because this is just absurdly false. He is taking shots he was turning down at the beginning of the season, and beyond that he taking a much higher percentage of contested shots compared to any point in his career, and then he is shooting better than any point in his career. For you to talk about how posters shouldn't make excuses every season I find it ridiculous that after all the seasons of Rubio shooting poor percentages and all the excuses made for him, that we have to completely ignore that Rubio is playing like a MIP candidate.

[Sugarless]

Wait, who says that's the alternative? Speculation by some fans because they think Thibs is going to sign every single former Bull that is out there, from Deng to Noah to Gibson?

No, I didn't want Deng at 17M per year or even close. Lee at 12M? That's a valuable contract for a durable 3-pt specialist who's also a decent defender at the wing. Marvin Williams? Definitely. Trevor Booker at 18M/2Y? Yep. Other guys like Joe Johnson, Jared Dudley, Brandon Bass... would have been excellent veteran additions too, just what we needed for such a young team.

So would you have paid those players more than they took with the teams they signed with? Trevor Booker is the only player you have listed that would have been a good signing, the rest are very "meh" suggestions especially if the Wolves have to start offering them higher salaries.

And that's when it comes to free agents. But let's not obviate there's been a full year of not seeing any improvement through trades either, and a 5th pick on a weak draft that was a wasted opportunity of getting a valuable veteran or several pieces from the Sixers, including two guys that would have been great in this roster.

Well it just seems that you are holding Thibs to an unusually high standard. I prefer to judge when there has been more than just a season of evaluation.

See, you can make excuses as long as you want. You can continue to preach patience year after year, not take a risk hoping that everything will pan out, because not doing anything always gives you the option to say you haven't handcuffed your future. And you're entitled to it, no doubt. But 99% of the time that's a sure way to mediocrity, and that's where the Timberwolves are, once again. You see improvement? Definite, measurable, valuable? You think we're so much better now than last year at this point? Well, show me where.

Well I don't know why we would hold Thibs to some ridiculous standard just because you are tired of losing because of previous management decisions. I will absolutely be critical next year if Thibs hasn't used our cap space to improve the team. That was the point of not giving out stupid contracts to players like Deng, Lee, or Marvin Williams. You have been making these comments for a while now, so if you can't even give the management even a season to evaluate and play it safe then I would guess that you just have unreasonable standards. I have been critical and complimentary when the team has deserved it, but the following makes me question your mentality here.

PS: Rubio is playing exactly as he always has, only looking for his shot more after the team lost a 20PPG scorer. Same all out effort, same defense, same magistery passing the ball, and the same improved efficiency he had the second half of last season. Not sure why Thibodeau should get credit for that.

Because this is just absurdly false. He is taking shots he was turning down at the beginning of the season, and beyond that he taking a much higher percentage of contested shots compared to any point in his career, and then he is shooting better than any point in his career. For you to talk about how posters shouldn't make excuses every season I find it ridiculous that after all the seasons of Rubio shooting poor percentages and all the excuses made for him, that we have to completely ignore that Rubio is playing like a MIP candidate.

So you still can't name where that huge improvement is thanks to Thibs, just keep making vague references and talk about some unusually high standards for asking a POBO and coach to be proactive. You didn't need to break the post into so many quotes for that.

[Mattya]

Wait, who says that's the alternative? Speculation by some fans because they think Thibs is going to sign every single former Bull that is out there, from Deng to Noah to Gibson?

No, I didn't want Deng at 17M per year or even close. Lee at 12M? That's a valuable contract for a durable 3-pt specialist who's also a decent defender at the wing. Marvin Williams? Definitely. Trevor Booker at 18M/2Y? Yep. Other guys like Joe Johnson, Jared Dudley, Brandon Bass... would have been excellent veteran additions too, just what we needed for such a young team.

So would you have paid those players more than they took with the teams they signed with? Trevor Booker is the only player you have listed that would have been a good signing, the rest are very "meh" suggestions especially if the Wolves have to start offering them higher salaries.

And that's when it comes to free agents. But let's not obviate there's been a full year of not seeing any improvement through trades either, and a 5th pick on a weak draft that was a wasted opportunity of getting a valuable veteran or several pieces from the Sixers, including two guys that would have been great in this roster.

Well it just seems that you are holding Thibs to an unusually high standard. I prefer to judge when there has been more than just a season of evaluation.

See, you can make excuses as long as you want. You can continue to preach patience year after year, not take a risk hoping that everything will pan out, because not doing anything always gives you the option to say you haven't handcuffed your future. And you're entitled to it, no doubt. But 99% of the time that's a sure way to mediocrity, and that's where the Timberwolves are, once again. You see improvement? Definite, measurable, valuable? You think we're so much better now than last year at this point? Well, show me where.

Well I don't know why we would hold Thibs to some ridiculous standard just because you are tired of losing because of previous management decisions. I will absolutely be critical next year if Thibs hasn't used our cap space to improve the team. That was the point of not giving out stupid contracts to players like Deng, Lee, or Marvin Williams. You have been making these comments for a while now, so if you can't even give the management even a season to evaluate and play it safe then I would guess that you just have unreasonable standards. I have been critical and complimentary when the team has deserved it, but the following makes me question your mentality here.

PS: Rubio is playing exactly as he always has, only looking for his shot more after the team lost a 20PPG scorer. Same all out effort, same defense, same magistery passing the ball, and the same improved efficiency he had the second half of last season. Not sure why Thibodeau should get credit for that.

Because this is just absurdly false. He is taking shots he was turning down at the beginning of the season, and beyond that he taking a much higher percentage of contested shots compared to any point in his career, and then he is shooting better than any point in his career. For you to talk about how posters shouldn't make excuses every season I find it ridiculous that after all the seasons of Rubio shooting poor percentages and all the excuses made for him, that we have to completely ignore that Rubio is playing like a MIP candidate.

So you still can't name where that huge improvement is thanks to Thibs, just keep making vague references and talk about some unusually high standards for asking a POBO and coach to be proactive. You didn't need to break the post into so many quotes for that.

So the only acceptable outcome for Thibs was "huge improvement"

I can see you have no actual interest in the basketball discussion since you are more upset with your post being broken up into specific sections(as if that is some sort of grand insult) than the actual responses to your points. So, talk to you another time...