Are we actually better defensively than offensively?

qiantom · Post #1 » by **qiantom** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:18 pm

I always thought of the team as decent offensively and bad defensively. However, if you look at our offensive and defensive efficiency right now, we are tied 27th on off eff and tied 23rd on def eff. So in terms of efficiency we are actually worse on offense than defense. Why is that?

Looks like we are decent shooting-wise. We rank 16th on TS% and EFF FG%, which makes sense with our style of popping threes. Is the problem then mainly the high turnover rate and low offensive rebounding rate? We do rank among the league's worst on both. How can we improve on these weaknesses next year?

twosevenstreet · Post #2 » by **twosevenstreet** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:52 pm

Since we have switched from non-athletes to athletes, yes.

treiz · Post #3 » by **treiz** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:00 pm

I think you're equating offensive and defensive efficiency as one in the same thing, which is not how you should look at it as they are two different aspects of the game. Just because a team for example ranks higher in offensive efficiency than defensive efficiency doesn't necessarily mean they are more efficient offensively.

reelsgm · Post #4 » by **reelsgm** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:12 pm

Not certain where you're getting your stats.

If you are using cumulative season stats rather than stats only after ASB then it's not an accurate representation of where we're at in absolute terms since we started winning.

Relative terms it might be accurate since we have improved our defense considerably since ASB.

twosevenstreet wrote:Since we have switched from non-athletes to athletes, yes.

Non-athlete's to athletes? KJ and Archie are the main "athletes" added and they are not the difference makers... unless you mean from Bogs to Nicholson, lol.

twosevenstreet · Post #5 » by **twosevenstreet** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:24 pm

KJ and Goodwin getting minutes vs Bogs significantly improves the defense. If you can't see that reels, well I'm not sure what to say

reelsgm · Post #6 » by **reelsgm** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:29 pm

twosevenstreet wrote:KJ and Goodwin getting minutes vs Bogs significantly improves the defense. If you can't see that reels, well I'm not sure what to say

There is hardly a player on our team who hasn't played better defense since the All-Star Break.

Slotting out the amount of minutes Bogs had to KJ and Goodwin doesn't explain our defensive rating increase nor does it have anything but a marginal influence on us winning like we have been.

MrDollarBills · Post #7 » by **MrDollarBills** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:39 pm

Having Lin, LeVert, and RHJ as starters for the better part since the ASB has a lot to do with it imo. All three of them compete on the defensive end and can switch on everything.

Paradise · Post #8 » by **Paradise** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:35 pm

reelsgm wrote:
twosevenstreet wrote:KJ and Goodwin getting minutes vs Bogs significantly improves the defense. If you can't see that reels, well I'm not sure what to say

There is hardly a player on our team who hasn't played better defense since the All-Star Break.

Slotting out the amount of minutes Bogs had to KJ and Goodwin doesn't explain our defensive rating increase nor does it have anything but a marginal influence on us winning like we have been.

Pre ASB: 109.0 Defensive RTG/101.3 Offensive RTG and Net RTG of -8.1.

Post ASB: 104.9 Defensive RTG / 104.8 Offensive RTG and Net RTG of 0.0.

McDaniels, Acy, Widdie, Goodwin provide a lot more rebounding, athleticism and defensive skills. Before, Whitehead, RHJ and Lin were the better defenders on the team. Most people had us pegged as a lottery team because we had too many non defenders and no shot creators.

We can actually say we have atleast six solid defensive minded guys here right now. We were not even remotely close to that on November 1st. You're right, It's not just one area that improved us but the new additions did significantly improve our season. It kind of reminds me of the Raptors after trading Rudy Gay.

I think people vastly underestimate how terrible Bogdanovic was defensively along with Scola and other guys. Kenny's defensive schemes are the same ones he's using now. Yet, we went from 30th to 8th in defense within 3 months.

No coincidence there.

And look, that’s not to say those runs are solely on Bogdanovic. Defense is a team concept in today’s NBA. One player does not always make or break what happens on that end of the floor. But Bogdanovic is a net -6.1 for Washington when he’s on the court. The Wizards have allowed 113.7 points per 100 possessions when he plays and just 105.5 per 100 when he’s off the court. In fact, when he’s not on the court the Wizards have a net rating of +8.1 overall, which is pretty good.

And it isn’t just because he’s playing with the bench. When inserted into the starting lineup for Markieff Morris, the Wizards have a net rating of -7.2 while allowing 128.8 points per 100 possessions. That lineup has played 22 minutes over the last ten games — the third highest total out of all lineups in that span.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2017/3/12/14872142/bojan-bogdanovic-washington-wizards-player-analysis-double-edged-sword

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Prokorov · Post #9 » by **Prokorov** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:16 pm

qiantom wrote:I always thought of the team as decent offensively and bad defensively. However, if you look at our offensive and defensive efficiency right now, we are tied 27th on off eff and tied 23rd on def eff. So in terms of efficiency we are actually worse on offense than defense. Why is that?

Looks like we are decent shooting-wise. We rank 16th on TS% and EFF FG%, which makes sense with our style of popping threes. Is the problem then mainly the high turnover rate and low offensive rebounding rate? We do rank among the league's worst on both. How can we improve on these weaknesses next year?

in the last month.... yes....

Trading bogs and putting RHJ and Levert in the starting lineup was huge for our defense. went went from god awful to halfway decent.

offensively, without lin all year and all the growing pains it really hurts our bottom line in the rankings. also kenny letting young guys play through struggles.

i think an objective look shows our offense is still better... we just need guys who can hit open shots or guys to improve. few teams if any get better looks on offense then we do.

Prokorov · Post #10 » by **Prokorov** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:28 pm

reelsgm wrote:
twosevenstreet wrote:KJ and Goodwin getting minutes vs Bogs significantly improves the defense. If you can't see that reels, well I'm not sure what to say

There is hardly a player on our team who hasn't played better defense since the All-Star Break.

Slotting out the amount of minutes Bogs had to KJ and Goodwin doesn't explain our defensive rating increase nor does it have anything but a marginal influence on us winning like we have been.

disagree 100%

Bogs is bottom 5 in the entire NBA in DRPM/DRAPM/DBPM. for a guy who played 30ish minutes at an important position (wing) that an enormous impact. and its not just him leaving, but replacing him with Caris Levert who is a plus defender. That makes an enormous difference. As does Kilpatrick (7th worse in the NBA just 4 spots above bogs) not playing as much recently and KJM/Goodwin getting those minutes.

Also hamiltons role being greatly reduced for booker/Acy

CLV >>>>> bogs
KJM/Archie >>>>>> Skil
Booker/Acy >>>>>> Hamilton

ENORMOUS difference. removing 3 of the leagues worst defenders(statistically, not hyperbole) for plus athletic defenders

MrDollarBills · Post #11 » by **MrDollarBills** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:35 pm

I think Skil not playing as much has also been a big factor along with removing Bojan from the equation.

Granted, we miss Bojan's shooting but we can fix that in the summer.

Kswiss · Post #12 » by **Kswiss** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:08 pm

I agree with the above posters and think it's a combination of the following things:

1. Lin being back, he's a very solid overall defender and makes a lot of high IQ help defense plays and helps rebound/block shots.

2. Caris Levert is just phenomenal for a rookie, on both offense and defense, great composure.

3. Reducing Skils role has been huge for the team, on both ends but particularly defense.

4. New athletes on bench have made a huge impact (KJ, Dinwiddie, Acy over Hamilton etc.)

5. RHJ has been great on the defensive boards (and I rarely give him props so you know it's real lol)

6. Lopez has showed more effort since Lin has been back and helped his offensive game get going.

I will say I wasn't as down on Bogs as some others and I think he is a bad but not atrocious defender. He has size and rebounds well. He does need a good rim protector behind him however. His length does help him recover decently on D though. He's not on the team anymore so it doesn't really matter but I didn't think he was that bad. We just had a lot of terrible defenders (Scola Hamilton Skil etc.) that didn't help his case

Mystical Apples · Post #13 » by **Mystical Apples** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:41 pm

Offense and defense don't operate in vacuums. For example, assist/tov rate is also defensive metric - lowering turnovers and making shots would improve overall NetRtg more than anything.

Specifically, live ball TOV's (steals) are defensive killers and that's where BKN has struggled.

Prokorov · Post #14 » by **Prokorov** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:30 pm

Kswiss wrote:I agree with the above posters and think it's a combination of the following things:

1. Lin being back, he's a very solid overall defender and makes a lot of high IQ help defense plays and helps rebound/block shots.

2. Caris Levert is just phenomenal for a rookie, on both offense and defense, great composure.

3. Reducing Skils role has been huge for the team, on both ends but particularly defense.

4. New athletes on bench have made a huge impact (KJ, Dinwiddie, Acy over Hamilton etc.)

5. RHJ has been great on the defensive boards (and I rarely give him props so you know it's real lol)

6. Lopez has showed more effort since Lin has been back and helped his offensive game get going.

I will say I wasn't as down on Bogs as some others and I think he is a bad but not atrocious defender. He has size and rebounds well. He does need a good rim protector behind him however. His length does help him recover decently on D though. He's not on the team anymore so it doesn't really matter but I didn't think he was that bad. We just had a lot of terrible defenders (Scola Hamilton Skil etc.) that didn't help his case

Bogs is pretty bad on defense... but probably looks worse pared with lopez... since when he gets beat there is no rim protector to rotate.

likewise... brook is helped out alot with RHJ and levert starting... his issues arent as bad when the wings do a great job. we have even seen RHJ defend the center with brook defending the PF ins ome matchups

playteamball · Post #15 » by **playteamball** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:01 pm

Agreed on everything except Hamilton, who I think plays smart team defense and is not nearly as bad as he looks. It looks ugly when guys score in his face but that means he rotates and at least is in the area. Plus he has made a fair share of contests and blocks at the rim. He is also still developing NBA reps so there is upside.