2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread Pt 3 (season finale)

[markjay]

Because the poll only gives you one option for MVP, and according to the format you have in total five players to give points to I created a poll to see who is the MVP candidate of the fans. It will be interesting to see whether the voters will also actually vote on these players.

Cast your vote: Who is the 2016/2017 NBA MVP?
In what could possibly be one of the closest races for MVP ever I am very curious what us (the NBA fans) would vote as the 2016/2017 NBA MVP.

1st place vote = 10 points
2nd place vote = 7
3rd place vote = 5
4th place vote = 3
5th place vote = 1

Vote here: https://goo.gl/forms/sKZm4jSf3bsbw1eC3

Cool. When will you share the results?

Next week I will release the results! Will be interesting!

I'm looking forward to seeing the results, but I disagree that this will be one of the closest races for MVP ever. I expect Westbrook to win in a landslide.

[The Box Office]

Cool. When will you share the results?

Next week I will release the results! Will be interesting!

I'm looking forward to seeing the results, but I disagree that this will be one of the closest races for MVP ever. I expect Westbrook to win in a landslide.

Yup. Here is a new article. Great write up. Well thought out with numbers backing him up.http://www.nba.com/article/2017/04/10/morning-tip-deciding-russell-westbrook-james-harden-mvp

[ken6199]

I'm looking forward to seeing the results, but I disagree that this will be one of the closest races for MVP ever. I expect Westbrook to win in a landslide.

I am expecting the landslide too, but I think it's much more due to the final period momentum, rather than the whole season performance.

Think about it, 2-3 weeks ago it's all Harden, from media, to posters here. What has changed? Was Westbrook outperforming Harden by a landslide from the season beginning up to 2-3 weeks ago? And that 2-3 weeks turned a Harden lead into a Westbrook lead in a landslide?

His moments in Dallas and Denver tipped the scale, plus Harden laid eggs in one week against GS, SAS, GS against other MVP candidates on national TV. Brutal schedule, unlucky timing, injured wrist, it doesn't matter. Who to blame? Nobody but himself.

However if you come back look at Westbrook's 3 games vs GS this season - three blowouts, a combined -58, 5/26 from 3 (19%). HOU-GS games were a lot closer. One would imagine if RB played the Warriors more recent and had his Dallas/Denver moments earlier in the season, while Harden also swapped his egg laying and heroic performances around, it could be a different scenery now.

I know OKC fans don't like to hear that, me either. If you swap Harden and Westbrook I would still say the same thing. I've always been saying recency bias is something we don't like, something we have to accept as part of this MVP race, but most importantly, also something we need to be very careful not to get blown out of proportion.

I guess the ultimate consolation is Westbrook will be a fully deserved MVP winner, so nothing to complain about.

So my opinion is the race is close. It's far from 'a land slide', even if the voting ends up that way, we know it's not because a landslide difference in their performances.

[JordansBulls]

Westbrook will be sitting the last game, that will tip the scales to Harden.

[GM Wotsup]

Tbh I just can't have a MVP award being handed out to players who have high turnover rates. I appreciate an allowance for brilliant playmakers as there is risk in creating. However high turnovers regardless of other stats is bad basketball. Always has been, always will be. Will be interesting to see how the basketball people amongst the media voters see it.
Kawhi has truly ascended to greatness this RS. Bigger question for Spurs is who they gunna chase to put around him as he enters his prime yrs in the future tbh.

[Doctor MJ]

Tbh I just can't have a MVP award being handed out to players who have high turnover rates. I appreciate an allowance for brilliant playmakers as there is risk in creating. However high turnovers regardless of other stats is bad basketball. Always has been, always will be. Will be interesting to see how the basketball people amongst the media voters see it.
Kawhi has truly ascended to greatness this RS. Bigger question for Spurs is who they gunna chase to put around him as he enters his prime yrs in the future tbh.

You can't evaluate turnovers in such an isolated fashion. A player too focused on not turning it over misses opportunities. Players with high turnovers are often simply making aggressive moves that are more than worth the tradeoff.


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[NaturalBuns]

Westbrook is the MVP.
Him being in the 6th seed only downfall.

If OKC had a 3rd seed and HOU 6th it wouldn't even be debating on national
Tv just the Internet.

I can careless though Westbrook vs harden is going to be lit

[brannigan73]

I think if people try to be as neutral as possible and use all the facts/stats available its got to be Westbrook althought its very close. I mean you have to pretty much devalue all of the top catch all type stats to get Harden over Westbrook. You just do and you have to get too far into the world of subjective opinion which I try to get as far away from as possible when deciding on awards like this. I try to be as dispassionate and analytical as possible. Also, Lebron James isn't getting the credit he deserves. He would probably be second on my ballot behind Westbrook. Its a photo finish Westbrook, James, then Harden. On an side note, the win difference between OKC and Houston is not that compelling at all to me I'm not going to go all crazy on 47 or 48 wins compared to 54 or 55 wins. If Houston was a 60+ win club it might get my attention more.

[HurricaneKid]

I think if people try to be as neutral as possible and use all the facts/stats available its got to be Westbrook althought its very close. I mean you have to pretty much devalue all of the top catch all type stats to get Harden over Westbrook. You just do and you have to get too far into the world of subjective opinion which I try to get as far away from as possible when deciding on awards like this. I try to be as dispassionate and analytical as possible. Also, Lebron James isn't getting the credit he deserves. He would probably be second on my ballot behind Westbrook. Its a photo finish Westbrook, James, then Harden. On an side note, the win difference between OKC and Houston is not that compelling at all to me I'm not going to go all crazy on 47 or 48 wins compared to 54 or 55 wins. If Houston was a 60+ win club it might get my attention more.

It has to be the guy leading the 6 seed when no player outside of a top 3 seed has won in 40 years?

It most certainly does not. I have accepted that it WILL BE. But it decidedly doesn't HAVE to be.

[MartinToVaught]

Tier 1 (MVP shoo-in)
1. Westbrook

Tier 2 (would be MVP most other years)
2. LeBron
3. Kawhi

Tier 3 (in the discussion, but not the most deserving)
4. Harden

Tier 4 (completely undeserving)
5. Thomas
6. Curry
7. Durant

[K_chile22]

I think if people try to be as neutral as possible and use all the facts/stats available its got to be Westbrook althought its very close. I mean you have to pretty much devalue all of the top catch all type stats to get Harden over Westbrook. You just do and you have to get too far into the world of subjective opinion which I try to get as far away from as possible when deciding on awards like this. I try to be as dispassionate and analytical as possible. Also, Lebron James isn't getting the credit he deserves. He would probably be second on my ballot behind Westbrook. Its a photo finish Westbrook, James, then Harden. On an side note, the win difference between OKC and Houston is not that compelling at all to me I'm not going to go all crazy on 47 or 48 wins compared to 54 or 55 wins. If Houston was a 60+ win club it might get my attention more.

Well the difference between Houston and OKC is also the difference between OKC and the lotto

[gmoney411]

I think if people try to be as neutral as possible and use all the facts/stats available its got to be Westbrook althought its very close. I mean you have to pretty much devalue all of the top catch all type stats to get Harden over Westbrook. You just do and you have to get too far into the world of subjective opinion which I try to get as far away from as possible when deciding on awards like this. I try to be as dispassionate and analytical as possible. Also, Lebron James isn't getting the credit he deserves. He would probably be second on my ballot behind Westbrook. Its a photo finish Westbrook, James, then Harden. On an side note, the win difference between OKC and Houston is not that compelling at all to me I'm not going to go all crazy on 47 or 48 wins compared to 54 or 55 wins. If Houston was a 60+ win club it might get my attention more.

Harden is leading the league in win shares so you don't have to devalue all top catch all type stats.

[K_chile22]

The League will know who won MVP by tonight, we will know in June.

[Torchmode]

Tier 1 (MVP shoo-in)
1. Westbrook

Tier 2 (would be MVP most other years)
2. LeBron
3. Kawhi

Tier 3 (in the discussion, but not the most deserving)
4. Harden

Tier 4 (completely undeserving)
5. Thomas
6. Curry
7. Durant

You gotta be kidding me with this list.

LeBron isnt even in the discussion this year. Every player on your list is more deserving then LeBron.

[RCM88x]

Tier 1 (MVP shoo-in)
1. Westbrook

Tier 2 (would be MVP most other years)
2. LeBron
3. Kawhi

Tier 3 (in the discussion, but not the most deserving)
4. Harden

Tier 4 (completely undeserving)
5. Thomas
6. Curry
7. Durant

You gotta be kidding me with this list.

LeBron isnt even in the discussion this year. Every player on your list is more deserving then LeBron.

Yea you're probably right. He sucks, makes his team worse for sure. Defense sucks too.

[K_chile22]

Something that hasn't gotten a ton of run:
Harden has created the 2000/2000 Club. First player to ever score and assist on 2000 points in a season.

[Starboy]

Tier 1 (MVP shoo-in)
1. Westbrook

Tier 2 (would be MVP most other years)
2. LeBron
3. Kawhi

Tier 3 (in the discussion, but not the most deserving)
4. Harden

Tier 4 (completely undeserving)
5. Thomas
6. Curry
7. Durant

You gotta be kidding me with this list.

LeBron isnt even in the discussion this year. Every player on your list is more deserving then LeBron.

Every post he makes is propping up Lebron or discrediting his opponents, so the agenda is clear.

[bmurph128]

Tier 1 (MVP shoo-in)
1. Westbrook

Tier 2 (would be MVP most other years)
2. LeBron
3. Kawhi

Tier 3 (in the discussion, but not the most deserving)
4. Harden

Tier 4 (completely undeserving)
5. Thomas
6. Curry
7. Durant

You gotta be kidding me with this list.

LeBron isnt even in the discussion this year. Every player on your list is more deserving then LeBron.

Every post he makes is propping up Lebron or discrediting his opponents, so the agenda is clear.

You can formulate an argument pretty easily that LeBron and Curry both deserve it over Russ and Harden.

Narrative MVPs: Westbrook and Harden

Actual MVPs: LeBron/Curry

In the middle both ways: Kawhi

I think Curry's case is obvious. Only knock on LeBron is the number of games he didn't play.

Whatever you actually use as criteria for MVP, what I think you'll find is that Curry and LeBron end up in the middle/near the top in all of them. Whereas Westbrook and Harden are high up in the raw stats department, and middle/near the bottom in most other categories.

[StepBackCrack]

This article is the best one I have found discussing the MVP. Very fair assessment imo.
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/even-in-maybe-the-tightest-nba-mvp-race-ever-one-man-does-stand-out-from-the-rest/

[bmurph128]

LeBron leads all candidates in RPM and in defensive RPM - which goes along with the thought that he's quite a bit better than both Harden and Westbrook defensively.

So compared to Harden and Westbrook:

-better defensively
-more efficient
-between them in wins
-behind them in raw stats, but still just 1 of 5 players to average 26/8/8
-beats them both in RPM

And did all this with more roster turnover and injuries happening around him