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This offseason

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Re: This offseason 

Post#281 » by MrDollarBills » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:54 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:What do you think the chances are Charlotte wants to cut ties with Batum?

Booker/Whitehead/Hamilton/Nicholson/Boston pick for Batum?



Ahem...


If you were Michael Jordan, and Sean Marks called you on the phone with that deal for Batum, would you

a) hang the phone up

b) accept

?

Idk honestly. Batum's contract is serious andJordan tends to be on the cheap side at times.

I don't believe it's outlandish.


i'd hang that phone up so hard, my thumb would crack the screen.
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Re: This offseason 

Post#282 » by Vae Victus » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:59 am

After watching Batum play for a season while following Lin in CHA, he's a nice 3rd option type, like he was during the LMA/Dame/Batum era, but as a 2nd fiddle, he's quite lacking.

His defense is lazy, always fighting little niggling injuries that prevents him from playing 100%, not much of a crunchtime scorer (too slow), inefficient, and he got PAID despite putting up a pretty meh season. CHA thought having Batum for another year would lead to improvement, instead they slid back down into the high lotto treadmill cuz quite frankly he's NOT a good #2.

He's basically a point forward as there's no chance he can chase around decent SGs on the perimeter (but then MKG is a hyper elite defender so thats not a huge deal), i thought he'd be a better shooter, but when he went into main option mode he wasnt. Can be a BRILLIANT passer but he's very high risk high reward. It is however indisputable that he's helped Kemba Walker GREATLY the past two seasons, being the secondary ball handler and helping space the floor thereby allowing Kemba to get OFF. Honestly i never thought he had it in him, hell i thought Lin coudla EASILY taken his lunch and starting spot when he signed there, until suddenly Kemba went super saiyan.

Kemba went OFF this year, they got Michael Kidd Gilchrest healthy, most of the rest of the team is back intact with some decent young pieces in Kamisky and Lamb. They did suffer some major losses in Al Jeff (he's like BroLo great scorer, terribad defender, team took off when he went to the bench), Courtney Lee who did a GREAT job as a 3D wing, and of course Lin who led their bench mob and put up some gaudy stats when he was allowed to start and freelance in the offense.

Batum's upside is pretty much reached and he's a very limited player in many ways. A nice piece to have but not at 25 mil a year. The team woulda been better off just giving Lee/Lin that money instead. Lee starts at the 2, MKG at the 3, Lin as super 6th man. More shooting, more defense, and a bench sparkplug. But alas they felt Batum was indispensible.

Better off going after Porter, Hill, and Milsap for that money. Maybe even KCP, there might be some upside left in him to tap into.
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Re: This offseason 

Post#283 » by Kswiss » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:08 am

Vae Victus wrote:After watching Batum play for a season while following Lin in CHA, he's a nice 3rd option type, like he was during the LMA/Dame/Batum era, but as a 2nd fiddle, he's quite lacking.

His defense is lazy, always fighting little niggling injuries that prevents him from playing 100%, not much of a crunchtime scorer (too slow), inefficient, and he got PAID despite putting up a pretty meh season. CHA thought having Batum for another year would lead to improvement, instead they slid back down into the high lotto treadmill cuz quite frankly he's NOT a good #2.

He's basically a point forward as there's no chance he can chase around decent SGs on the perimeter (but then MKG is a hyper elite defender so thats not a huge deal), i thought he'd be a better shooter, but when he went into main option mode he wasnt. Can be a BRILLIANT passer but he's very high risk high reward. It is however indisputable that he's helped Kemba Walker GREATLY the past two seasons, being the secondary ball handler and helping space the floor thereby allowing Kemba to get OFF. Honestly i never thought he had it in him, hell i thought Lin coudla EASILY taken his lunch and starting spot when he signed there, until suddenly Kemba went super saiyan.

Kemba went OFF this year, they got Michael Kidd Gilchrest healthy, most of the rest of the team is back intact with some decent young pieces in Kamisky and Lamb. They did suffer some major losses in Al Jeff (he's like BroLo great scorer, terribad defender, team took off when he went to the bench), Courtney Lee who did a GREAT job as a 3D wing, and of course Lin who led their bench mob and put up some gaudy stats when he was allowed to start and freelance in the offense.

Batum's upside is pretty much reached and he's a very limited player in many ways. A nice piece to have but not at 25 mil a year. The team woulda been better off just giving Lee/Lin that money instead. Lee starts at the 2, MKG at the 3, Lin as super 6th man. More shooting, more defense, and a bench sparkplug. But alas they felt Batum was indispensible.

Better off going after Porter, Hill, and Milsap for that money. Maybe even KCP, there might be some upside left in him to tap into.

Mildly agree with a few things you said. However Al Jefferson is no BroLo and it isn't close. BroLo is a much better rim protector, and also a much better scorer/finisher and also floor spacer. They had committed too much money to Kemba long term so while Lin was the better player, I didn't see him ever starting over Kemba. The difference between the two was very evident when Kemba sat and Lin started and also in the playoffs where Lin went to another level. As far as Batum, agree with your gist that he is massively overpaid and overhyped. When he was younger in Portland, he was mildly athletic, now he is just a slow 6'8" shooting guard who can't shoot. Also I really was hoping he'd be a better passer from what people said going in. Really sloppy and a poor ball handler/playmaker. Nevertheless, while Cha might be back to being a lotto team, I still think it was a good season last year and I liked the overall team chemistry. I don't know what they're going to do going forward though, Cliff has them playing hard, but they just don't have any top talent at any position
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Re: This offseason 

Post#284 » by hood30 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:37 am

Vae Victus wrote:After watching Batum play for a season while following Lin in CHA, he's a nice 3rd option type, like he was during the LMA/Dame/Batum era, but as a 2nd fiddle, he's quite lacking.

His defense is lazy, always fighting little niggling injuries that prevents him from playing 100%, not much of a crunchtime scorer (too slow), inefficient, and he got PAID despite putting up a pretty meh season. CHA thought having Batum for another year would lead to improvement, instead they slid back down into the high lotto treadmill cuz quite frankly he's NOT a good #2.

He's basically a point forward as there's no chance he can chase around decent SGs on the perimeter (but then MKG is a hyper elite defender so thats not a huge deal), i thought he'd be a better shooter, but when he went into main option mode he wasnt. Can be a BRILLIANT passer but he's very high risk high reward. It is however indisputable that he's helped Kemba Walker GREATLY the past two seasons, being the secondary ball handler and helping space the floor thereby allowing Kemba to get OFF. Honestly i never thought he had it in him, hell i thought Lin coudla EASILY taken his lunch and starting spot when he signed there, until suddenly Kemba went super saiyan.

Kemba went OFF this year, they got Michael Kidd Gilchrest healthy, most of the rest of the team is back intact with some decent young pieces in Kamisky and Lamb. They did suffer some major losses in Al Jeff (he's like BroLo great scorer, terribad defender, team took off when he went to the bench), Courtney Lee who did a GREAT job as a 3D wing, and of course Lin who led their bench mob and put up some gaudy stats when he was allowed to start and freelance in the offense.

Batum's upside is pretty much reached and he's a very limited player in many ways. A nice piece to have but not at 25 mil a year. The team woulda been better off just giving Lee/Lin that money instead. Lee starts at the 2, MKG at the 3, Lin as super 6th man. More shooting, more defense, and a bench sparkplug. But alas they felt Batum was indispensible.

Better off going after Porter, Hill, and Milsap for that money. Maybe even KCP, there might be some upside left in him to tap into.


Totally agree with you on Batum and I'd even take it further by stating Charlotte would had been better off paying Lin the11M/per to start alongside Kemba and let Batum go..That would had saved them 10+M to go after another max contract player like Hayward this summer...And I truly believe Hornets would had made the playoff with Lin.

Lin could had done exactly what Batum is doing while guarding the weaker opposition wing since MKG could guard the tougher wing...Lin probably would had averaged more than Batum 15ppg on 34 minutes and you would had gotten a good amount of assist from Lin if he was to be given the same duty that Batum gets handling the ball to let Kemba move off the ball.

Also, Charlotte over-rated MKG defense to the point where they believed his defense alone was worth 5-10 wins thus allowing Lin to leave thinking it was no big deal...Of course, the problem with that is that MKG is a liability on offense and can't shoot, so whatever you got defensively, you gotta subtract what you don't get on the offensive end of the ball.

My preference was for Lin to re-sign with Charlotte as the SG-facilitator beside Kemba but knew it was never going to happen because of their ridiculously high valuation of Batum and MKG.
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Re: This offseason 

Post#285 » by Roy Tarpley » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:34 am

I thought Batum as the #4 option behind Lillard, Aldridge, and Matthews on those Blazers teams was good. But Batum as the #2 option behind Walker isn't working and Batum's %s in the last few years have fallen off a cliff.
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Re: This offseason 

Post#286 » by Keith Van Horn » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:20 pm

I'm starting to get a feeling we won't be making any big trades involving Brook now. Marks will probably keep all the picks this year, and then look to move a guy like Booker or RHJ for a pick in the 18 draft. Then sign Lopez to a new deal, but no where near the max. I could see Brook taking less to stay here (might seem ridiculous b/c we all know money talks.... but he's made a ton of money already -- and you can only spend so much on comic books, right? -- and he has a chance to further push himself up on the all time Nets points leaderboard). I wouldn't mind seeing him stay either, as much as I dislike the guy sometimes he always gets me liking him again. I really LOVE how he's added the 3pt shot to his repertoire too.

I'm excited though for the Nets again. Marks has provided hope. There's reason to be happy with how this team is ending the season, and we have 2 picks in the 20s. I really believe they'll get a first rounder in 2018 too. Can't wait to see what kind of offers we put out there for free agents.
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Re: This offseason 

Post#287 » by Prokorov » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:47 pm

Keith Van Horn wrote:I'm starting to get a feeling we won't be making any big trades involving Brook now. Marks will probably keep all the picks this year, and then look to move a guy like Booker or RHJ for a pick in the 18 draft. Then sign Lopez to a new deal, but no where near the max. I could see Brook taking less to stay here (might seem ridiculous b/c we all know money talks.... but he's made a ton of money already -- and you can only spend so much on comic books, right? -- and he has a chance to further push himself up on the all time Nets points leaderboard). I wouldn't mind seeing him stay either, as much as I dislike the guy sometimes he always gets me liking him again. I really LOVE how he's added the 3pt shot to his repertoire too.


I just dont see anyway around paying lopez 25 million per year. the market is set already:

Drummond got 4/100.
Howard got 3/75
Whiteside got 4/100
Bosh got 4/104
Gasol got 4/100

Lopez made 22 million last season and the cap is going up. A discount is one thing... taking a pay cut in a year where the cap jumps significantly and all these other bigs got big paydays seems really unrealistic. especially when this is his last big contract.

I can see them seeing value in holding on to brook and letting him walk if we get some young bigs in the draft. but an extension seems unrealistic... unless marks things he is worth 4/100+ in which case id feel about that the way i felt when we offered crabbe the big deal. Bad idea.
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Re: This offseason 

Post#288 » by Prokorov » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:48 pm

I've long been a big Batum fan.... but at 29 years old next year and on a big contract i dont think he is a good fit. unlike Hill or Milsap i dont think he makes us a lock playoff team. and he isnt like porter or KCP where he is a longterm piece.

hard pass unless lopez goes out for him and a pick is attached
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Re: This offseason 

Post#289 » by reelsgm » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:11 pm

hood30 wrote:Totally agree with you on Batum and I'd even take it further by stating Charlotte would had been better off paying Lin the11M/per to start alongside Kemba and let Batum go..That would had saved them 10+M to go after another max contract player like Hayward this summer...And I truly believe Hornets would had made the playoff with Lin.

...

My preference was for Lin to re-sign with Charlotte as the SG-facilitator beside Kemba but knew it was never going to happen because of their ridiculously high valuation of Batum and MKG.


Guess the additional problems were :

- CHA could have offered Lin $99 million and he still would have left unless he was offered the starting spot. Not driven by money; lots of athletes say it - but for Lin, it's actually true.

- Lin believes he helps his team the most when he runs the Point and it's far from certain that combo-guard/SG held any appeal over the Nets job.
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Re: This offseason 

Post#290 » by Rockice_24 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:11 pm

I'm a hard no to Hill. Good player but not great and at 30 I'll pass giving him a max.

Only guy I'm maxing out this offseason is Porter or Hayward if he somehow hits the market.

If not I'm good with looking into other options like Gallo, Holiday, Tucker, Olynyk etc.
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Re: This offseason 

Post#291 » by King_Supreme » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:28 pm

Will Marks go after Waiters?
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Re: This offseason 

Post#292 » by hood30 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:38 pm

reelsgm wrote:
hood30 wrote:Totally agree with you on Batum and I'd even take it further by stating Charlotte would had been better off paying Lin the11M/per to start alongside Kemba and let Batum go..That would had saved them 10+M to go after another max contract player like Hayward this summer...And I truly believe Hornets would had made the playoff with Lin.

...

My preference was for Lin to re-sign with Charlotte as the SG-facilitator beside Kemba but knew it was never going to happen because of their ridiculously high valuation of Batum and MKG.


Guess the additional problems were :

- CHA could have offered Lin $99 million and he still would have left unless he was offered the starting spot. Not driven by money; lots of athletes say it - but for Lin, it's actually true.

- Lin believes he helps his team the most when he runs the Point and it's far from certain that combo-guard/SG held any appeal over the Nets job.


You may be right that lin would had left no matter what, but there were clear benefit in him staying put if the Hornets had offered the starting SG spot.....Lin clearly enjoyed Charlotte and his teammates and stated how much he hated moving from team to team.

Also, Charlotte had made it to the playoff and was 1 game away from beating the Heat, so based on that, I do feel Lin would had strongly consider staying put for some continuation and the chance to make a deeper incursion into the playoff..With Brooklyn, that was always a bit less likely.
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Re: This offseason 

Post#293 » by Vae Victus » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:51 pm

Prokorov wrote:I've long been a big Batum fan.... but at 29 years old next year and on a big contract i dont think he is a good fit. unlike Hill or Milsap i dont think he makes us a lock playoff team. and he isnt like porter or KCP where he is a longterm piece.

hard pass unless lopez goes out for him and a pick is attached


BroLo for Batum + CHA 1st

Eh i dunno, Batum is soft and as MDB likes to call players who dont play with heart, a dog. Batum had a meh season and played like an injured dog in the playoffs, where the main reason CHA was able to win 3 games in the 1st place was cuz of Lin being allowed to step up. Then Batum comes back and the team comes back to earth and Lin's role gets reduced. Batum gets maxed Lin goes off for a starting spot, and the team slid hardcore as Batum aint no max player and the replacements for their losses all sucked major balls.

Actually hey Prok didnt u say youd rather sign Ramon Sessions than sign Lin? Yea well CHA thought Sessions at backup PG would work out dandy, also got Bellinelli for more scoring punch.... yea things didnt quite work out too well for them.
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Re: This offseason 

Post#294 » by Paradise » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:10 pm

Sean Marks scouting Milos Teodosic and Nicolo Melli.

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Re: This offseason 

Post#295 » by bws94 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:45 pm

Rockice_24 wrote:I'm a hard no to Hill. Good player but not great and at 30 I'll pass giving him a max.

Only guy I'm maxing out this offseason is Porter or Hayward if he somehow hits the market.

If not I'm good with looking into other options like Gallo, Holiday, Tucker, Olynyk etc.


Yeah, very good player but not great on Hill who requires just too much money. Spend money somewhere else and get a good, solid 2-guard to replace Foye.
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Re: This offseason 

Post#296 » by Prokorov » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:44 am

Vae Victus wrote:
Prokorov wrote:I've long been a big Batum fan.... but at 29 years old next year and on a big contract i dont think he is a good fit. unlike Hill or Milsap i dont think he makes us a lock playoff team. and he isnt like porter or KCP where he is a longterm piece.

hard pass unless lopez goes out for him and a pick is attached


BroLo for Batum + CHA 1st

Eh i dunno, Batum is soft and as MDB likes to call players who dont play with heart, a dog. Batum had a meh season and played like an injured dog in the playoffs, where the main reason CHA was able to win 3 games in the 1st place was cuz of Lin being allowed to step up. Then Batum comes back and the team comes back to earth and Lin's role gets reduced. Batum gets maxed Lin goes off for a starting spot, and the team slid hardcore as Batum aint no max player and the replacements for their losses all sucked major balls.

Actually hey Prok didnt u say youd rather sign Ramon Sessions than sign Lin? Yea well CHA thought Sessions at backup PG would work out dandy, also got Bellinelli for more scoring punch.... yea things didnt quite work out too well for them.



I did. but it was more for cap reasons then oncourt reasons. either way i would have been wrong
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Re: This offseason 

Post#297 » by Prokorov » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:46 am

[
Rockice_24 wrote:I'm a hard no to Hill. Good player but not great and at 30 I'll pass giving him a max.

Only guy I'm maxing out this offseason is Porter or Hayward if he somehow hits the market.

If not I'm good with looking into other options like Gallo, Holiday, Tucker, Olynyk etc.


im fine passing on Hill for the age/money.... but giving 18-20ish million to those guys would make my stomach turn. last thing we need is to pay non-dfference makers big money.

if we miss on proter/kcp/noel/hill/milsap id want more booker/harris 1+1 types
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Re: This offseason 

Post#298 » by vincecarter4pres » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:24 am

Really just don't love any of these FA options, I'd prefer Marks trades for a guy, maybe picks up a draft pick in the process.

George Hill is actually a great fit here, but he turns 31 before the playoffs are even over and are we really giving him a max contract?
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Re: This offseason 

Post#299 » by vincecarter4pres » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:48 am

Booker/Hamilton/Boston pick for Myers Leonard/Portland pick?

Follow it up with 16/22/Whitehead for 9th?
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Re: This offseason 

Post#300 » by Curns13 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:10 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:Booker/Hamilton/Boston pick for Myers Leonard/Portland pick?

Follow it up with 16/22/Whitehead for 9th?

So you wanna turn Booker, Hamilton, Whitehead, the 22nd pick and 27th pick into Myers Leonard and the 9th pick? No thanks. Booker is worth a late first rounder (like Bogs was) and Hamilton should get us a 2nd. That's 3 picks in the 20's and a second rounder plus Whitehead's upside to get the 9th. Just don't see the value there.

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