Season Finale: Magic(28-53) vs. Pistons(37-44)

[Furinkazan]

effin Vogel ...what a tard
at the same time Im surprised he didnt play all starters 47 mins each
what a clown

[OrlChamps2030]

Read on Twitter

That's alarming.

After this monstrosity of a season, winning now should be the last thin on this organization's mind.

[King-]

Even with Henny gone, I'm not sold on the future of this franchise. We wasted a season completely, like a lot of us feared. We waited 80 games to use the two players we should have from the beginning as the cornerstones. We've been randomly experimenting for 2 years with Skiles-Vogel, two years, which make up a decent percentage of the rookie contract careers of EP/AG. I have a sickening feeling in my stomach that EP and AG are going to bolt the first chance that they get, why wouldn't they with this instability they've experienced in two very important years of their careers these last two?

It all starts at the top, IMO, and so long as the DeVos family is involved in basketball-related activities, we're **** tbh. Go down the list of teams and check out their personnel and you will see not only almost always basketball-related people who make up the majority of front offices.... and then check us out with Alex Martins, a PR guy running the team. At what point do we also hold ownership/front office-not-named Hennigan responsible?

Knicks have Phil Jackson. Lakers have Magic Johnson. Magic have Alex Martins.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Even with Henny gone, I'm not sold on the future of this franchise. We wasted a season completely, like a lot of us feared. We waited 80 games to use the two players we should have from the beginning as the cornerstones. We've been randomly experimenting for 2 years with Skiles-Vogel, two years, which make up a decent percentage of the rookie contract careers of EP/AG. I have a sickening feeling in my stomach that EP and AG are going to bolt the first chance that they get, why wouldn't they with this instability they've experienced in two very important years of their careers these last two?

It all starts at the top, IMO, and so long as the DeVos family is involved in basketball-related activities, we're **** tbh. Go down the list of teams and check out their personnel and you will see not only almost always basketball-related people who make up the majority of front offices.... and then check us out with Alex Martins, a PR guy running the team. At what point do we also hold ownership/front office-not-named Hennigan responsible?

Knicks have Phil Jackson. Lakers have Magic Johnson. Magic have Alex Martins.

The Devos family isnt involved in basketball related activities. There is absolutely nothing wrong with owership outside of continuing to allow Martins to be CEO/Pres. of Basketball Ops. I think thats the biggest issue assuming he still has alot of influence on what Hennigan/Vogel do with the roster. It's martins being involved in basketball related activities thats the issue.

[Blue_and_Whte]

And I wanted to **** climb into the TV and strangle our telecast when they were saying they hope Vuc finishes his career in Orlando and thinks most Magic fans want to see that happen.

I swear to God, if Vucevic is our starting center next season, I **** quit!!!! I'm tired of that soft ****. Bench him, trade him, waive him. I don't give a ****! I'm tired of acting like just because he gets a lot of double doubles, that this guy is a good starting center!

And Jeff Turner saying that the Lakers are going to look back and see the 5 game winning streak as a positive, lmao.

I'm all for making over our broadcast team as much as our **** team!!

The vast majority of Magic fans do love Vucevic and want him to finish his career in Orlando. Everywhere I go people I talk to like Vucevic. Everywhere. It is ONLY on RealGM where I encounter people who think if the team does not have elite talent at each starting position ready to contend for the title, all the players must be traded and the team has to tank untithey have elite talent at every position.

I dont even know what Nik did for people to hate him so much. I mean paying Biyombo $17 million a year to do **** nothing, and Mario officially being a BUST doesn't generate this kind of hatred. AG/Payton improve their jump shot slightly and people lose their ****,
Nik improves his defense, uped his rebounding again, is adding a 3pt shot, was the ultimate pro coming off the bench and played his ass off along with EP, and damn near double doubles in the 1st quarter last night and he drives people to want to commit murder? Its the same thing with Ross vs Fournier. Ross didn't do jack **** the last two games, he's the poster child for inconsistency but all people can do is bitch about Fournier scoring. it doesnt make sense to me.

I mean there's room for improvement across the board on this team but holy **** talk about an overreaction. I feel like if here were a bad player people would like him more. Zimmerman is utter trash but even he gets more love. Its pretty obvious that people around here are biased towards new players.

I never said any of that. I was simply inferring that he didn't take the jumpers often because Vuc takes up a lot of space in the offense.

No you didn't... you said "TBH Vuc is always in the way" in response to "Where was this step-back mid-range J's all year?? " Nik Vucevic has nothing to do with Payton's lack of a consistent mid range jumper. I bet that you could replace Nik with any player and he'd still lack one. Nik is almost the perfect center to have next to a guy that relies so heavily on getting to the basket.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

But I never mentioned anything about him MAKING the shot... just that he didn't take them because Vuc is always in the mid-range space... Because he HATES THE F'ING POST. Seriously. What happened to his post game? He's decided that he wants to avoid contact and shoot 15-20 footers all day.

I feel like he's in the mid range/perimeter area because we have two starters that need to get to the basket to mostly be effective on offense. Imo its conducive to the type of roster we have. Lets say Payton had a reliable 3 pt shot I think we'd look different on the court. But I agree with you about posting up more. I'm all about an upgrade at any position including center but currently, and as much shade as I throw at Biz, I think we're solid at the position and the only warranted change imo would be an obvious upgrade imo.
Heres a look at his % of FG by distance and it doesnt seem THAT disproportionate although I do agree he needs to post up more.

[PrimeThyme]

And I wanted to **** climb into the TV and strangle our telecast when they were saying they hope Vuc finishes his career in Orlando and thinks most Magic fans want to see that happen.

I swear to God, if Vucevic is our starting center next season, I **** quit!!!! I'm tired of that soft ****. Bench him, trade him, waive him. I don't give a ****! I'm tired of acting like just because he gets a lot of double doubles, that this guy is a good starting center!

And Jeff Turner saying that the Lakers are going to look back and see the 5 game winning streak as a positive, lmao.

I'm all for making over our broadcast team as much as our **** team!!

I think you need to step away from the Orlando Magic for a bit, just like Aaron Gordon "Going to the beach" quote!

When you don't find another hobby to suffice for this terrible seasons the Magic constantly have, it's enough to make you certified insane! lol

Believe me I feel your pain as a hardcore Magic fan! But I refuse to get all worked up again over players who lack mental toughness and other qualities to win on a daily bases!

Obsession is a disease my friend and unless I can control it, it's not worth being obsessed about IMO!!

A hell of a lot easier said than done. This is just how sports work. Many of us invest countless hours watching this team and their games every season and posting about them. It's near impossible not to get invested In this team and the players.

After a season like this where the franchise has been completely run into the ground it hard not to be completely pissed off by it. Things have just been getting worse as each passing day goes by. Nothing is more painful to see the once respected franchise you love become the laughing stock of the NBA.

With how these last five years have gone If we could just flip a switch and suddenly not give a chit about this franchise and what they do anymore I'm sure a lot of us would do it but it's not that easy.

[PennytoShaq]

wtf?

He is right about that. He's not talking about our draft picks, just the league in general now. No one has really done it quickly with a one and done guy. The Wolves are still awful and they have a nice collection.

As for the Basketball Gods thing, that's not uncommon either to hear that. NBA guys believe in Karma and he saw it firsthand when BOS tanked for Duncan and didn't get him.

Still not happy we won. But at the end of the day, how many of you thought Pat Williams was a good luck charm for us in the lottery a few years ago? Tons of us did. It's not rational, but when it comes to lottery balls, luck is a factor.

He could also be talking about guys like Green, Meeks, Ben Gordon, who are on the team on 1 year deals, playing for themselves and stats for their next contract.

No he was not. Someone asked him about our draft position and how wining affected it negatively, and he spoke about 1 and done college guys.

And he is right. I mean, we need these guys badly, but they are not ready for NBA ball and are not going to come and immediately be great players.

[PennytoShaq]

Read on Twitter

That's alarming.

After this monstrosity of a season, winning now should be the last thin on this organization's mind.

It was not the context of what he was saying though. I watched it. He was simply saying that this is a deep draft and getting a one and done guy is not going to change the team's fortunes quickly. He was speaking to people like us who wanted the team to tank and get a higher draft pick. His point was that the Pacers got better players drafting later and that just getting a top 1 and done player does not mean the team will suddenly have a star and start winning games.

[swarlesbarkley]

Read on Twitter

That's alarming.

After this monstrosity of a season, winning now should be the last thin on this organization's mind.

It was not the context of what he was saying though. I watched it. He was simply saying that this is a deep draft and getting a one and done guy is not going to change the team's fortunes quickly. He was speaking to people like us who wanted the team to tank and get a higher draft pick. His point was that the Pacers got better players drafting later and that just getting a top 1 and done player does not mean the team will suddenly have a star and start winning games.

Thanks for the context. That really does change the way I read his quote.

[tk76]

Watch Philly get the 1 & 4 picks to go along with their core of Simmons & Embiid & their already young, solid rotation of Saric, Covington, McConnell & Luwawu not to mention their trade asset in Okafor. Seriously the only thing stopping the Sixers from being the team of the future is the health of Embiid and Simmons and I'm not about to be a jealous bitch and wish ill will on them.

Hey, if the Sixers get the Lakers pick that means the Magic get the Lakers pick in 2019. You guys just need someone like Hinkie who knows how things work. You're not buried like the Nets and some other teams. You just need the right GM to gain some traction... and some luck. Believe me, as a Sixer fan I've been there. And I don't mean under Hinkie, but under the incompetent GM's like BK before him who wanted to run before they could even crawl.

Hinkie only knows how to tank. He has never built a successful team before. Heck, look at his first round draft picks outside of Embiid aka Okafor, Noel, MCW. No, thank you.

To each his own. Hinkie only had 3 years in Philly, and he carried out his stated goal of taking a weak team with minimal future assets (partly because of the failed Bynum/Vucevic trade a year before) and restocking the team so it is positioned for at least a chance to become elite. Who knows how he would do in stage 2, as he never got the chance. But to say all he did was tank was to ignore the fantastic trades... like trading away the rights to Payton in exchange for Saric and the return of a future Sixers first. Or trading away MCW at the right time for the rights to the Lakers pick (this year 53% or next year unprotected) or getting an unprotected Kings 2019 for cap relief. Sure, tanking allowed him to be able to make these types of trades, but it is these moves that set up the team long term even more than simply losing games for 3 years (like LA, Orl or NY have done.)

Hinkie was very clear that rebuilding was fraught with risks and that you likely will make some bad picks. The reason he was effective was he took steps to mitigate these risks by making moves to maximize your odds of attaining franchise altering talent. The team was in line to have 3 1sts in 5 years... and instead will have 9 1sts in that same span, 7 of them in the lottery. If you are going to be bad, then you need more than just 1 lottery pick each year to maximize your chances of finding impact players. Otherwise, one miss kills your rebuild.

I think Orlando is at risk of getting better without a clear path to getting great. And that is the most dangerous position a franchise can be in. I think Hinkie could set Orlando quickly on a course to have the best chance to build a great team- and much faster than in Philly because he would not be starting out in the same kind of hole. I'm sure lots of GM's could lead you to the playoffs in 1-2 years, but I'm not sure they would lead you on a path that realistically gets you to contention build around your current core unless you are willing to make risky moves.

[BadMofoPimp]

Hey, if the Sixers get the Lakers pick that means the Magic get the Lakers pick in 2019. You guys just need someone like Hinkie who knows how things work. You're not buried like the Nets and some other teams. You just need the right GM to gain some traction... and some luck. Believe me, as a Sixer fan I've been there. And I don't mean under Hinkie, but under the incompetent GM's like BK before him who wanted to run before they could even crawl.

Hinkie only knows how to tank. He has never built a successful team before. Heck, look at his first round draft picks outside of Embiid aka Okafor, Noel, MCW. No, thank you.

To each his own. Hinkie only had 3 years in Philly, and he carried out his stated goal of taking a weak team with minimal future assets (partly because of the failed Bynum/Vucevic trade a year before) and restocking the team so it is positioned for at least a chance to become elite. Who knows how he would do in stage 2, as he never got the chance. But to say all he did was tank was to ignore the fantastic trades... like trading away the rights to Payton in exchange for Saric and the return of a future Sixers first. Or trading away MCW at the right time for the rights to the Lakers pick (this year 53% or next year unprotected) or getting an unprotected Kings 2019 for cap relief. Sure, tanking allowed him to be able to make these types of trades, but it is these moves that set up the team long term even more than simply losing games for 3 years (like LA, Orl or NY have done.)

Hinkie was very clear that rebuilding was fraught with risks and that you likely will make some bad picks. The reason he was effective was he took steps to mitigate these risks by making moves to maximize your odds of attaining franchise altering talent. The team was in line to have 3 1sts in 5 years... and instead will have 9 1sts in that same span, 7 of them in the lottery. If you are going to be bad, then you need more than just 1 lottery pick each year to maximize your chances of finding impact players. Otherwise, one miss kills your rebuild.

I think Orlando is at risk of getting better without a clear path to getting great. And that is the most dangerous position a franchise can be in. I think Hinkie could set Orlando quickly on a course to have the best chance to build a great team- and much faster than in Philly because he would not be starting out in the same kind of hole. I'm sure lots of GM's could lead you to the playoffs in 1-2 years, but I'm not sure they would lead you on a path that realistically gets you to contention build around your current core unless you are willing to make risky moves.

So, can you name the great players he obtained with his genius of doing nothing but trading away any talent so that his coach would not win any games?

He built nothing. No winner. Basically, he sat and waited for each draft and prayed to god he would get lucky winning some elite talent each year to make him look good. Lets see. His first 3 drafts with this genius outlook was MCW, Noel and Okafor. Sounds like a winner I want leading my team.

He really didn't do much different than Henny but pray he gets lucky in the Lottery to make him look good.

[Mc-o]

Hinkie only knows how to tank. He has never built a successful team before. Heck, look at his first round draft picks outside of Embiid aka Okafor, Noel, MCW. No, thank you.

To each his own. Hinkie only had 3 years in Philly, and he carried out his stated goal of taking a weak team with minimal future assets (partly because of the failed Bynum/Vucevic trade a year before) and restocking the team so it is positioned for at least a chance to become elite. Who knows how he would do in stage 2, as he never got the chance. But to say all he did was tank was to ignore the fantastic trades... like trading away the rights to Payton in exchange for Saric and the return of a future Sixers first. Or trading away MCW at the right time for the rights to the Lakers pick (this year 53% or next year unprotected) or getting an unprotected Kings 2019 for cap relief. Sure, tanking allowed him to be able to make these types of trades, but it is these moves that set up the team long term even more than simply losing games for 3 years (like LA, Orl or NY have done.)

Hinkie was very clear that rebuilding was fraught with risks and that you likely will make some bad picks. The reason he was effective was he took steps to mitigate these risks by making moves to maximize your odds of attaining franchise altering talent. The team was in line to have 3 1sts in 5 years... and instead will have 9 1sts in that same span, 7 of them in the lottery. If you are going to be bad, then you need more than just 1 lottery pick each year to maximize your chances of finding impact players. Otherwise, one miss kills your rebuild.

I think Orlando is at risk of getting better without a clear path to getting great. And that is the most dangerous position a franchise can be in. I think Hinkie could set Orlando quickly on a course to have the best chance to build a great team- and much faster than in Philly because he would not be starting out in the same kind of hole. I'm sure lots of GM's could lead you to the playoffs in 1-2 years, but I'm not sure they would lead you on a path that realistically gets you to contention build around your current core unless you are willing to make risky moves.

So, can you name the great players he obtained with his genius of doing nothing but trading away any talent so that his coach would not win any games?

He built nothing. No winner, nothing. Basically, he sat and waited for each draft and prayed to god he would get lucky winning some elite talent each year to make him look good. Lets see. His first 3 drafts with this genius outlook was MCW, Noel and Okafor. Sounds like a winner I want leading my team.

He really didn't do anything different than Henny but pray he gets lucky in the Lottery to make him look good.

this ! Building a winning organization takes more than the draft , the draft is just one small ingredient . It's more important to create a culture that promotes excellence and have a system that maximizes everyone's talents so when a team does get the talent they can actually maximize it . Philly still sucks , they are still a team with potential , and even if Simmons becomes that superstar they still have to build a winning team around him and also hope he doesn't leave the organization. The best thing that philly has done is they got a coach they have been able to keep during the entire process which has kept continuity and structure

[tk76]

The Sixers just won 28 games with Simmons playing 0, Embiid playing 31, Covington missing the last 15, their FA PG (Bayless) out the entire season and Okafor basically hobbled the entire season with a bum knee. Culture, continuity, coaching and player development was how they jumped from 10 to 28 wins with minimal additions (Saric.) It's a shame that somehow the narrative of Hinkie the tanker has supplanted the more complicated reality. I don't care if people craap on the Sixers... I just think a team like the Magic could really benefit from a GM who can see the forest through the trees. Your narrative seems to fit the Magic's recent "built the right way" approach, so if that is what you think will most likely succeed then I have no doubt the team can find another GM to stay the course. In Philly we did that through 3 GM's and 8 seasons after the AI trade- much like the Magic seem to be headed after Howard. Mid to late lottery picks, trade away picks for solid vets and trend slowly towards 40 wins. About a dozen franchises are on that same treadmill hoping to become the next Atl Hawks.

Anyhow, hope you get the Lakers pick in '19 and land a forward thinking GM.