2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion

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Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1501 » by bondom34 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:51 pm

Knrstz wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
getrichordie wrote:
That's so surprising to me that you don't see he has that upside. Sure, he needs to be consistent, but he's been through some crazy **** since he's been in the league. New coach this year. All the boogie drama. Inadequacy of FO. He would play much better under a stable organization such as OKC.

He's flashed a strong midrange game. He's flashed athletic drives and finishes around the rim and his speed in transition would fit perfect next to Westbrook. He would just out-run the opposing centers in transition. He has huge defensive potential as well. To me age doesn't matter for WCS right now because he didn't even really get to play in college much, right? And then he comes in to the league under a **** organization. He's showing flashes. A coach like Donovan who is far more adept at developing young players would set him on the right path. All you need to do is take a look at March's & April's box scores for Stein to see the potential.


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Age is why guys get drafted late, there's a lesser chance of him improving than Adams, and he's already much worse. He doesn't do much well other than "be tall".

Those 2 months, he's managed to have approximately the same averages as Adams offensively while having one of the worst defenses in the league. It would be like Kanter's defense with Adams's offense right now. He just isn't good.

Edit: And he's shooting under 12 percent from the field outside of 10 feet. That's not flashing any mid range.


What does Adams shoot outside of 10 ft?

Worse, but I never said he had a midrange game. He also has a pretty massive advantage in ORPM and a better TS. WCS kinda stinks. The Kings would have to add a few picks, which makes no sense for them and no sense for OKC to downgrade.

And while we're on it, new article today:

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/04/11/thunder-sam-presti-kevin-durant-russell-westbrook-nba-playoffs

Meanwhile, several high-ranking executives rejected offers from rival organizations anticipating a post-Durant exodus.
NBA




Of course, without Westbrook they’re battling the Lakers in the bowels of the Western Conference, but the Thunder’s steady response has sparked hope that their triple-double dynamo could sign a five-year jumbo extension this summer. Westbrook can’t lean on an All-Star teammate, but a blue-chip GM is only slightly less valuable. Presti has prevailed in a large majority of trades he’s made, except the one everybody remembers, when he cast off Harden five years ago in a deal he didn’t want to make but deemed necessary because of oncoming luxury-tax penalties and the Beard’s ambitions. The next season Oklahoma City still won 60 games. “I put my trust in Sam,” Westbrook says, “and he always makes sure we have a chance.” Presti’s history of unearthing gems—he drafted Ibaka and Reggie Jackson at No. 24, Adams at No. 12—inspires faith that he can eventually dig out another. “You know how long my interview was for this job?” asks second-year coach Billy Donovan. “Ten hours. Sam is going to turn over every rock, flip it around and study it from every angle. You take comfort in that level of preparation.”


Seems the course is still happening. But WCS is in no way an answer.
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Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1502 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:56 pm

I wonder when Russ made those comments, last summer?
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Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1503 » by alessandrux » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:59 pm

I'm not that happy with Adams development this year, but i don't think we can get anyone of close to his value back.
I'm just hoping that he gets back in form, because if he will, it is going to be great, because he has tremendous defensive potential. We should not forget that he is, despite his size, pretty mobile and can defend well in pick and roll situations, he is one of few centers who don't get lost in defending the perimeter. He also has the size/strength to defend "big" bigs well, so therefor i hope he will get back to his playoff form.

People I would like us to trade: McDermott, Kanter and Oladipo; only if they get us someone good back.
I think Kanter could be a really good tank-commander for some teams (all those teams on their path to mediocrity: Orlando, Detroit, Charlotte, Knicks, Dallas, Bulls, Portland,...(OKC?)) and Oladipo should have a high-value and i think, he is just no good fit to Westbrook.

I think that, regarding their talent, that our supporting cast has greatly underperformed and we are going to have a hard time getting something of their "true" value back.
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Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1504 » by bondom34 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:02 pm

Yeah I'd definitely agree with 2 of those 3, and Dipo if the value's there for sure. Still don't see the whole mediocrity thing, but Adams is the guy who needs to round into form before you do anything. Don't know what it is, but he's just so off.
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Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1505 » by ThunderBolt » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:12 pm

If Adams and Oladipo look really good tonight, I'm going to have some serious concerns about other issues.
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Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1506 » by Pillendreher » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:27 pm

Knrstz wrote:If Adams and Oladipo look really good tonight, I'm going to have some serious concerns about other issues.


Russ? I think it's possible Russ' MVP and TD hunt has weighed on our players' shoulders. Let's hope they can knock it up a notch in the Playoffs to help Russ.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1507 » by Osirus89 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:36 pm

Knrstz wrote:If Adams and Oladipo look really good tonight, I'm going to have some serious concerns about other issues.

Don't worry they wont. Taj is out and so is Andre. Semaj is going to play like 35+ minutes. Noone is going to look very good tonight. Steven and Vic haven't shown the ability to be aggressive all season, I doubt they will be able to do it all of a sudden.

This is the game that will probably close the door on the MVP debate. We are going to lose BAD. Thibs won't let his guys tank, they will come out ready to go.
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Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1508 » by spearsy23 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:27 pm

After the season he's had would Adams have gotten 25 million on the open market?
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
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Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1509 » by ThunderBolt » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:49 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
Knrstz wrote:If Adams and Oladipo look really good tonight, I'm going to have some serious concerns about other issues.


Russ? I think it's possible Russ' MVP and TD hunt has weighed on our players' shoulders. Let's hope they can knock it up a notch in the Playoffs to help Russ.


I think it's led to some guys not being as engaged as they should be on both ends of the floor. I'm not suggesting we're better off without Russ but we definitely need to be less dependent on him.
bisme37 wrote:If there were magnets in basketballs so strong they changed the path of the ball as it flew through the air, wouldn't the ball then stick magnetically to the rim when it got there?
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Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1510 » by Kizz Fastfists » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:11 pm

spearsy23 wrote:After the season he's had would Adams have gotten 25 million on the open market?


Yes. He would have gotten a max offer sheet.
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Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1511 » by Pillendreher » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:50 pm

Knrstz wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:
Knrstz wrote:If Adams and Oladipo look really good tonight, I'm going to have some serious concerns about other issues.


Russ? I think it's possible Russ' MVP and TD hunt has weighed on our players' shoulders. Let's hope they can knock it up a notch in the Playoffs to help Russ.


I think it's led to some guys not being as engaged as they should be on both ends of the floor. I'm not suggesting we're better off without Russ but we definitely need to be less dependent on him.


I see where you're coming from. I'd like to take that into a slightly different direction tho: The pressure might have gotten to them. For all we know, Russ is like Kobe and MJ when it comes to winning. Our team isn't that strong mentally (or at least it doesn't seem like it is). Every missed shot, every rebound you take away from him, every bad play hurts his MVP chances. I can see that affecting his teammates.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1512 » by Kizz Fastfists » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:10 pm

Pillendreher wrote:I see where you're coming from. I'd like to take that into a slightly different direction tho: The pressure might have gotten to them. For all we know, Russ is like Kobe and MJ when it comes to winning. Our team isn't that strong mentally (or at least it doesn't seem like it is). Every missed shot, every rebound you take away from him, every bad play hurts his MVP chances. I can see that affecting his teammates.


If that is the case then OKC is doomed. There are too many young players for them to be able to handle that. OKC doesn't have the cap space to put veterans who can handle that type of mentality around Russ.
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Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1513 » by Pillendreher » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:32 pm

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:I see where you're coming from. I'd like to take that into a slightly different direction tho: The pressure might have gotten to them. For all we know, Russ is like Kobe and MJ when it comes to winning. Our team isn't that strong mentally (or at least it doesn't seem like it is). Every missed shot, every rebound you take away from him, every bad play hurts his MVP chances. I can see that affecting his teammates.


If that is the case then OKC is doomed. There are too many young players for them to be able to handle that. OKC doesn't have the cap space to put veterans who can handle that type of mentality around Russ.


I don't know it it's that 'bad', but I won't dismiss the possibility outright either. Domas for example has been talked about as a kind of fragile kind of guy. I think putting that additional pressure on him in addition to his own struggles might have been harmful to his game.

People react differently to pressure. Abrines for example doesn't seem like things throw him off - he just continues what he does best and expects things to turn around.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1514 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:48 am

The nuggets are ridiculously loaded at shooting guard. Murray, Beasley, Harris and Barton. What are possible trade options with them? Kanter seems like a dream. Oladipo seems like a lateral move for both teams. My guess is they would want Sabonis. My guess is Barton is the most likely trade piece for them.
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Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1515 » by Pillendreher » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:47 pm

Knrstz wrote:The nuggets are ridiculously loaded at shooting guard. Murray, Beasley, Harris and Barton. What are possible trade options with them? Kanter seems like a dream. Oladipo seems like a lateral move for both teams. My guess is they would want Sabonis. My guess is Barton is the most likely trade piece for them.


What would we need shooting guards for?
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1516 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:05 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
Knrstz wrote:The nuggets are ridiculously loaded at shooting guard. Murray, Beasley, Harris and Barton. What are possible trade options with them? Kanter seems like a dream. Oladipo seems like a lateral move for both teams. My guess is they would want Sabonis. My guess is Barton is the most likely trade piece for them.


What would we need shooting guards for?


Besides point guard, we need improvement at every position. Considering we're 29th and 30th in three point percentage most of the year and extremely offensively challenged at times, it makes sense that me. Although if you said we needed better forwards and a center, I wouldn't argue.
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Re: RE: Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1517 » by Pillendreher » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:20 pm

Knrstz wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:
Knrstz wrote:The nuggets are ridiculously loaded at shooting guard. Murray, Beasley, Harris and Barton. What are possible trade options with them? Kanter seems like a dream. Oladipo seems like a lateral move for both teams. My guess is they would want Sabonis. My guess is Barton is the most likely trade piece for them.


What would we need shooting guards for?


Besides point guard, we need improvement at every position.

But we already have Abrines and Dipo. What would we need another SG for? And where would his minutes come from?
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: RE: Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1518 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:17 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:
What would we need shooting guards for?


Besides point guard, we need improvement at every position.

But we already have Abrines and Dipo. What would we need another SG for? And where would his minutes come from?


Royce young said he didn't think the thunder were married to Oladipo. I don't know if that means they'll trade him for someone at the same position or not. Most likely not but I'll gladly take as many shooting guards as possible. A guy like Barton could offer some savings.
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Re: RE: Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1519 » by Pillendreher » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:48 pm

Knrstz wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
Besides point guard, we need improvement at every position.

But we already have Abrines and Dipo. What would we need another SG for? And where would his minutes come from?


Royce young said he didn't think the thunder were married to Oladipo. I don't know if that means they'll trade him for someone at the same position or not. Most likely not but I'll gladly take as many shooting guards as possible.


I already posted this, but I'll say it again: It is highly unlikely to me that we'd be able to upgrade from Oladipo via trade.

-Among volume c&s shooters, he's in the middle of the pack at 54 eFG% (30/53)
-Among volume pull-up shooters, he's average as well (44.5 eFG%; 33/72)
-He's been slightly above average in Spot-Up situations (59th percentile)
-He's been slightly above average in PnR situations (56th percentile)
-He's been bad at drives. Among volume drivers, he's 90/96 in FG%

He has to get better offensively, no question about it. For that to happen, he has to work on his game, but we also have to work at getting him more involved. With Russ on the floor, he's not getting touches, but he's efficient. Without him on the floor, he plays 3rd fiddle to Kanter and whatever wack ass **** we're playing any given night.

Even though he's struggled, he's still 5th in RPM among SGs at the moment. That's a good accomplishment, but his offensive impact needs to improve. I'm confident he can bring both his offensive talents and his defensive skills (make no mistake: The talent is there) togehter and be a Top 5 SG in this league (I'd currently rank him somewhere between 6-10).

Also underrated aspect of this: Once Presti cleans up this roster, several guys might suddenly play better. Especially when a player is struggling with a weird role (Dipo's asked to shoot, but isn't really part of our offense), the rest of the team not fitting at all won't help either.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
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Re: RE: Re: 2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion 

Post#1520 » by ThunderBolt » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:30 pm

Pillendreher wrote:
Knrstz wrote:
Pillendreher wrote:But we already have Abrines and Dipo. What would we need another SG for? And where would his minutes come from?


Royce young said he didn't think the thunder were married to Oladipo. I don't know if that means they'll trade him for someone at the same position or not. Most likely not but I'll gladly take as many shooting guards as possible.


I already posted this, but I'll say it again: It is highly unlikely to me that we'd be able to upgrade from Oladipo via trade.

-Among volume c&s shooters, he's in the middle of the pack at 54 eFG% (30/53)
-Among volume pull-up shooters, he's average as well (44.5 eFG%; 33/72)
-He's been slightly above average in Spot-Up situations (59th percentile)
-He's been slightly above average in PnR situations (56th percentile)
-He's been bad at drives. Among volume drivers, he's 90/96 in FG%

He has to get better offensively, no question about it. For that to happen, he has to work on his game, but we also have to work at getting him more involved. With Russ on the floor, he's not getting touches, but he's efficient. Without him on the floor, he plays 3rd fiddle to Kanter and whatever wack ass **** we're playing any given night.

Even though he's struggled, he's still 5th in RPM among SGs at the moment. That's a good accomplishment, but his offensive impact needs to improve. I'm confident he can bring both his offensive talents and his defensive skills (make no mistake: The talent is there) togehter and be a Top 5 SG in this league (I'd currently rank him somewhere between 6-10).

Also underrated aspect of this: Once Presti cleans up this roster, several guys might suddenly play better. Especially when a player is struggling with a weird role (Dipo's asked to shoot, but isn't really part of our offense), the rest of the team not fitting at all won't help either.


It'll not saying you trade Vic for someone as good or better. I am saying that you try to acquire someone cheaper than Vic who gives similar production, I.E. Barton. Then you move other players like Kanter and you start to have more options with more salary available. We have to shed salary and Denver might be able to give us a cheaper version of Vic.
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