WCQF | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | UTA 3-2

[Nate505]

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Damn....that is absolutely hilarious.

[True Story]

That is absolutely hilarious.

[og15]

Griffin is an outdated PF. Not a great defender, not an elite playmaker, can't shoot threes, and scores on difficult contested 2 point shots. Just not that effective in 2017.

Griffin would have been much better 20 years ago. Nobody is holding him back, in fact Paul would be better off with a sidekick who can pop as well as roll.

Didn't he just hit 2/3 3 3PT this game? Isn't he one of the issues best passing big men? He was 36th in the league in APG, 3rd among big men, what do you call that? Didn't be just average 3.0 3PA/G and shoot 37.1% 3PT over the last 30 games of the season?

1. He did hit 2 of 3 threes. If he continues at that rate, I'll eat my words.
2. 36th in assists is above average, not elite.
3. Again, if he keeps his 3pt attempts and percentages high long term, I'll eat my words. 33% on 1.9 attempts in 2016-2017, and those are basically highs. He hasn't shot threes basically his entire career.

To clarify - I'm not saying Griffin is bad, just overrated by some. He is a borderline fringe all-star. My post was mainly in response to the tweet earlier in the post that Doc and Paul "robbed us" of some amazing alternate version of Blake. No, the lack of diversity in Blake's offensive game robbed us of what he could have been, but not everybody can be Hakeem. He came in the league a freak athlete with a couple moves. People learned those moves and Blake isn't quite the athlete he was. It's no surprise he struggles to score as easy as he once did.

Well I'm disagreeing with him being an outdated PF. Should we criticize him for not being an elite passer among ALL players as a reason he's an "outdated" big man? Which bigs are elite among the league though? Jokic, okay. I don't believe Draymond is any specially superior passer, but he doesn't have a superior game manager / passer like Paul on his team.

Yea, Blake didn't shoot 3PT shots much before and for most of this season, but he was told by Doc that he needs to which is why I was isolating the last 30 games. That's when he started shooting them. I don't think we can neglect the 30 game sample after he started consistently shooting 3PT shots. He made a 3PT shot in 20/30 final games, 2+ 3PT in 8 of those games, and a stretch of 8 straight games with at least one 3PT made.

People consider Draymond a modern PF and he's a 3.5 3PA / 30.8 3PT% guy this season. Last season he was 3.2 3PA / 38.8% 3PT. 14-15 it was 4.2.3PA / 33.7% 3PT. Everything he does on offense, handle, run the offense , pass, Blake can do. Length and defense is obviously where they differ. Love is considered a modern PF, he shoots the three point shot better, but he can't handle, pass, etc like Blake.

I guess I'm just not understanding why with Blake people seem to think that just because he shoots a lot of mid-range shots (so does LMA) they are always seeming to say he's not a modern PF, but not really expecting all those same boxes checked for others to get classified as "modern", at least it seems.

[og15]

He's an elite passing big man, not an elite passer in general. Third in assists among all bigs sounds pretty elite to me.

Being a top 3 in assists for a big is like being top 3 in rebounds for a guard . It's positive, but it doesn't make you elite overall.

You are dramatically underrating him. A "borderline fringe all-star" at the PF position is, like, Tobias Harris or Thaddeus Young. Blake is clearly above that level as a player.

In fact, I really don't see how Blake's overrated. The media barely even mentions him anymore, let alone praising him. Other teams' fans loathe Blake and love to come up with Hot Takes like "Blake's a borderline fringe all-star." Our own fanbase has been trying to run him out of town for years. How is he overrated?

I'm not going to argue the semantics of a fringe all star or how other people rate him. Yes he's better than Harris and Young. He's probably a top 10-15 forward, top 30 or so player. So if that's how he is rated, then that is accurate. If people are coming up with "Hot Takes" like calling him a superstar or something "truly special and unique" that Doc and Paul "robbed" us of, then that's overrating him.

FYI I don't loathe Blake. He grew up down the street from where I live and I've been following him since HS. He is a good kid with a great work ethic. I want him to be successful, but it will be difficult with people thinking he's Karl Malone when he's not.

Now, yes, I agree that saying that Doc and Paul are depriving us of something special with Blake is going to be hard to swallow. If Blake was still early in his career and he felt too young to be asserting himself, yes, but if a player is going to be leading a team and direct winning for his team as a veteran, that's on the player. If others have to lay it down for you then you aren't that type of player.

The Clippers including Paul have been wanting Blake to be a more aggressive and assertive scorer and offensive force. He has stretches, but he doesn't have the consistent motor of a guy like Wesbrook or the stamina of a guy like LeBron to do that. People will point to his younger days, and we'll talk about that, but he didn't play much defense then either. We're not being held back from the second coming off LeBron because no coach or teammate is going to hold a player like that back from exerting his dominance on the game, that doesn't happen with those types of players.

Blake touches the ball way too much on this team that he can do whatever he wants with it if he decides to. He likes to pass and move the ball though which isn't bad.

The thing is the he has these stretches, which all players do, and we project those stretches saying "if he just had more touches, push, motivation, opportunity" he would be able to play like that for the whole season. The reality is that Blake himself said in 14-15 that he wanted to pace himself in the regular season. This is what he said about when he was more of a high motor guy: https://www.theplayerstribune.com/why-aint-he-dunkin/

He said after 14-15, despite missing a decent chunk of the season the he was exhausted: https://www.google.ca/amp/www.latimes.com/sports/clippers/clippersnow/la-sp-cn-blake-griffin-exhuasted-20150622-story,amp.html

So if one thinks that Blake should play 82 games in a "do everything" role and then go to the playoffs and do the same thing, I don't know how they expect him to survive. He'll have to start taking off plays on defense and in boxing out, and like last night gambling for a steal then not getting back on defense as Joe Johnson goes to score late in the game. That will ultimately not lead to winning more for the team though he might maximize his own stats. That's the problem.

[DEEP3CL]

Should've gotten Melo. He's built for a half court slugfest like last night. I knew this was going to happen. Blake disappears in the 4th, JJ and Jamal or only good in the regular season, Dj is whatever, and the scoring load falls on Chris. If he's so tight with Doc why didn't he get his buddy Melo here?

Because he didn't want to trade his son...from all accounts that was given by media, the Clippers didn't even have to trade the Big 3. But you're right, should've gotten Melo....Clippers need a real 3 man badly.

[Roscoe Sheed]

Should've gotten Melo. He's built for a half court slugfest like last night. I knew this was going to happen. Blake disappears in the 4th, JJ and Jamal or only good in the regular season, Dj is whatever, and the scoring load falls on Chris. If he's so tight with Doc why didn't he get his buddy Melo here?

Because he didn't want to trade his son...from all accounts that was given by media, the Clippers didn't even have to trade the Big 3. But you're right, should've gotten Melo....Clippers need a real 3 man badly.

There is no evidence that it was the clippers saying no- more likely it was the knicks rejecting such a trade or Melo refusing to waive his no trade clause. Clippers would certainly have traded rivers and Crawford for Melo

[Ballings7]

Lmao if the clips lose this series, they need to blow it up. Come on now.

When has joe Johnson ever been good in the playoffs? Holy crap

He has always been a clutch playoff performer...what?

Yep. Joe's always been Mr. 4th quarter and a clutch player. Clutch shooter and scorer, crafty. Showed it again tonight. Guy can definitely still get it done.

Go watch him in 2005 vs. Dallas and San Antonio. Had some big years and games in Atlanta, Brooklyn, especially.

Him at the 4 vs. Blake will continue to be a big problem for LA until they adjust.

[Ballings7]

The problem remains with LA's offensive ability - nobody dynamic enough on the wing to help out CP3 ever since he arrived in LA. No big wing-player to create offense. Crawford and Redick are not talented enough or big enough or athletic enough to be the other main sources of wing-offense.They're solid and effective role-players that each can score in their own ways, but relying on them too much in the playoffs after the smallest position on the court (CP3 at PG) for your other wing-offense, is just a downhill trip waiting to happen. They can simply be contained enough over a series with a solid teamd efense, or even shut down, due to their limitations on offense.

Blake in 2015 and 2016 was damn good and the best he's played, around a class of his own and unique, but injuries have effected him overall too much, where he has regressed. Coaching sounds like it hasn't helped either.

[og15]

Should've gotten Melo. He's built for a half court slugfest like last night. I knew this was going to happen. Blake disappears in the 4th, JJ and Jamal or only good in the regular season, Dj is whatever, and the scoring load falls on Chris. If he's so tight with Doc why didn't he get his buddy Melo here?

Because he didn't want to trade his son...from all accounts that was given by media, the Clippers didn't even have to trade the Big 3. But you're right, should've gotten Melo....Clippers need a real 3 man badly.

This isn't true, Carmelo never agreed to waiving his no trade clause, so there wasn't even the option to make a trade

[Cappy_Smurf]

All this Clipper hate is ridiculous. The Jazz are a damn good team and that game was an instant classic. These are two teams that would have won 55-60 games if they were reasonably healthy. Losing a great game like this is no shame, even with the Gobert injury.

I agree with this. That was a hard fought game against a Utah team that is a lot better than most fans give them credit for. Could have easily gone the other way if Joe misses the shot and they go to overtime.

Series has just started, so I think people are getting ahead of themselves. I understand Clipper fans are frustrated with the way things have gone the last few seasons, but they still have a really good team who could end up winning this series. Shake it off and move on to the next one.

[nurseryc]

The real question is why Dante Exum played exactly zero minutes in game 1.

[pace31]

The real question is why Dante Exum played exactly zero minutes in game 1.

He's still pretty bad and I think that'll just be intensified for the playoffs

[jazzfan1971]

The real question is why Dante Exum played exactly zero minutes in game 1.

I think the fact that we won despite losing Gobert shields Snyder from any criticism you might want to throw at his coaching for that game.

[bmurph128]

It's interesting to read through this thread... Everyone here seems to be jumping on the Clipper-Hate-Bus...talking about how the Clippers are chokers, etc...

How about this... The Jazz are really a good team, and they played a phenomenal game with a ton of heart despite loosing their best player in the first 20 seconds of the game. Did anyone here even watch the game? I believe the biggest lead at any given time was 7 points. That's not choking... that's just a good game. The Jazz's offensive ball movement was a thing of beauty through most of the game, and the Clippers couldn't stop them. The Jazz simply played an amazing game. They endured CP3's take-over in the 4th, and Iso Joe sealed it at the buzzer. It was a tight game from start to finish.

It's going to be a shame if Gobert is out for the duration of this series... Favors really stepped up, but he looks like he's struggling to he point that I wouldn't be surprised if he couldn't play in any more games this year.

That may be...but after years of watching the Clippers do the opposite of what you expect in the playoffs, people are going to focus on them losing rather than the Jazz winning. We should just expect it...which some do.

Given all the talk about the Clippers playoff struggles, them having the best player in the series, and having home court....them losing will definitely be the focus.

[ShazamDaShiznt]

It's interesting to read through this thread... Everyone here seems to be jumping on the Clipper-Hate-Bus...talking about how the Clippers are chokers, etc...

How about this... The Jazz are really a good team, and they played a phenomenal game with a ton of heart despite loosing their best player in the first 20 seconds of the game. Did anyone here even watch the game? I believe the biggest lead at any given time was 7 points. That's not choking... that's just a good game. The Jazz's offensive ball movement was a thing of beauty through most of the game, and the Clippers couldn't stop them. The Jazz simply played an amazing game. They endured CP3's take-over in the 4th, and Iso Joe sealed it at the buzzer. It was a tight game from start to finish.

It's going to be a shame if Gobert is out for the duration of this series... Favors really stepped up, but he looks like he's struggling to he point that I wouldn't be surprised if he couldn't play in any more games this year.

that is one very optimistic post about the clippers

jazz lost their defensive anchor for game 1, the game where deandre and blake should have gone wild on utah. This is the same story all over again, just like when warriors lost bogut in 2014 and clips still needed game 7 to finish them off because bigs couldnt use the opportunity

the clippers choked the game because on paper the clips were much much better than jazz without gobert. Chris Paul even made the supposed to be game winning shot. And then in a doc rivers classic fashion he got outcoached at the end of the game when jazz ran there with no timeout. Even doc rivers face after the game proves the point.

[MartinToVaught]

My first thought when Gobert went down was, "how's Doc going to blow this one?" I'm sure I wasn't the only Clipper fan thinking that, either. And true to form, he got thoroughly outcoached. How Ballmer can't see what literally everyone else on the planet can see is beyond me. I now understand how Windows Vista and the Xbox One made it to store shelves.

As far as Blake and DJ are concerned, some of it is on them. Blake needs to stop turning into Chris Kaman down the stretch and DJ needs to get his head in the game. But people are also underplaying the role of Doc's "coaching" in why Blake and DJ aren't stepping up enough. Doc is *obsessed* with jump shooting and small-ball. The concept of a size advantage is lost on him; he has no clue how to use it.

[stitches]

Watch on YouTube

[Catchall]

Joe Johnson can still play...

Watch on YouTube

[Winglish]

It's interesting to read through this thread... Everyone here seems to be jumping on the Clipper-Hate-Bus...talking about how the Clippers are chokers, etc...

How about this... The Jazz are really a good team, and they played a phenomenal game with a ton of heart despite loosing their best player in the first 20 seconds of the game. Did anyone here even watch the game? I believe the biggest lead at any given time was 7 points. That's not choking... that's just a good game. The Jazz's offensive ball movement was a thing of beauty through most of the game, and the Clippers couldn't stop them. The Jazz simply played an amazing game. They endured CP3's take-over in the 4th, and Iso Joe sealed it at the buzzer. It was a tight game from start to finish.

It's going to be a shame if Gobert is out for the duration of this series... Favors really stepped up, but he looks like he's struggling to he point that I wouldn't be surprised if he couldn't play in any more games this year.

They will have to amputate his leg for Derrick Favors not to play in the playoffs. He is old school tough.

[jbk1234]

People are overreacting IMO. I don't think Joe Johnson is going to go HAM four games this series. Crawford is usually good for one how-did-that-go-in game.