Trade Post-Mortem 2017: Eight is Enough

[Valid]

IF we completely strike out completely in free agency, I'm ok with Melo and 2020 top 10 protected first, top 5 in 2021, top 3 in 2022, unprotected in 2023 for Crowder and the Min second round pick in 2017.

Phil gets red of him and we upgrade the 4 with melo and start brown or draft Jackson for the 3.

We won't strike out in the trade market even if we strike out in free agency. This is a non starter. I'm not helping Phil Jackson out. I wanna watch them burn again next season and see if KP starts to force his way out. They're already talking about resigning Rose. Do you really think that team is gonna get any better next season??

Melo on this team is a lot different than Melo in NY. He would be going to a team where he wouldn't be "the man". It would also be at a cheap price. Again it's a non starter until FA shakes out but if the coaching staff wanted him then it's going to resurface at some point in the offseason. The two biggest needs are rebounding and scoring. Melo has one in spades.

He's also a ball stopper that would completely stagnate our offense. Melo is an iso scorer. He is not a guy you can plug into a motion offense that relies on quick ball movement to generate clean looks.

No thank you.

[chrisab123]

We won't strike out in the trade market even if we strike out in free agency. This is a non starter. I'm not helping Phil Jackson out. I wanna watch them burn again next season and see if KP starts to force his way out. They're already talking about resigning Rose. Do you really think that team is gonna get any better next season??

Melo on this team is a lot different than Melo in NY. He would be going to a team where he wouldn't be "the man". It would also be at a cheap price. Again it's a non starter until FA shakes out but if the coaching staff wanted him then it's going to resurface at some point in the offseason. The two biggest needs are rebounding and scoring. Melo has one in spades.

He's also a ball stopper that would completely stagnate our offense. Melo is an iso scorer. He is not a guy you can plug into a motion offense that relies on quick ball movement to generate clean looks.

No thank you.

A ball stopper that takes shots. This team has literally no one besides IT that wants to take shots.

[robdog_5]

Please just say no to Melo. He's not the guy we need. Very little D, avg rebounder for position, and low % shooter. He's not the same guy he once was on offense to take the risk on the other stuff. Honestly I'd rather sign Gallanari then trade for Melo if we can't land Heyward/Trade for a legit star.

[Waider]

Will it be possible/beneficial to go this route for next year? Taking into consideration the Cap, etc.

Draft Fultz
Sign J. Green from Memphis in FA.
Re-sign Olynyk.
Trade Smart, Crowder, BKN '18 for a starting 3.
Keep G. Green cheap.

Thomas/Fultz
Bradley/Rozier/G.Green
Trade Target/Brown
J. Green/Olynyk/Yabu
Horford/Zizic

[brackdan70]

Will it be possible/beneficial to go this route for next year? Taking into consideration the Cap, etc.

Draft Fultz
Sign J. Green from Memphis in FA.
Re-sign Olynyk.
Trade Smart, Crowder, BKN '18 for a starting 3.
Keep G. Green cheap.

Thomas/Fultz
Bradley/Rozier/G.Green
Trade Target/Brown
J. Green/Olynyk/Yabu
Horford/Zizic

assuming the Salary of the starting 3 we trade for is greater than Smart / Crowder...that will cut into our 18.4 million in cap space which probably means we don't have enough room to pry J. Green from memphis. I like the thinking though. If you swap the 18 pick for the 17 pick then it gets a little more realistic...but of course no Fultz.

[Waider]

Will it be possible/beneficial to go this route for next year? Taking into consideration the Cap, etc.

Draft Fultz
Sign J. Green from Memphis in FA.
Re-sign Olynyk.
Trade Smart, Crowder, BKN '18 for a starting 3.
Keep G. Green cheap.

Thomas/Fultz
Bradley/Rozier/G.Green
Trade Target/Brown
J. Green/Olynyk/Yabu
Horford/Zizic

assuming the Salary of the starting 3 we trade for is greater than Smart / Crowder...that will cut into our 18.4 million in cap space which probably means we don't have enough room to pry J. Green from memphis. I like the thinking though. If you swap the 18 pick for the 17 pick then it gets a little more realistic...but of course no Fultz.

Thanks for your reply. To keep the '17 pick I'd even consider using Olynyk in the trade too but unsure when he becomes tradeable after a new deal (apologies for not knowing the CBA well).

Also, if we trade after the season starts & our signings are set does that enable us to take a little more salary back?

[brackdan70]

Will it be possible/beneficial to go this route for next year? Taking into consideration the Cap, etc.

Draft Fultz
Sign J. Green from Memphis in FA.
Re-sign Olynyk.
Trade Smart, Crowder, BKN '18 for a starting 3.
Keep G. Green cheap.

Thomas/Fultz
Bradley/Rozier/G.Green
Trade Target/Brown
J. Green/Olynyk/Yabu
Horford/Zizic

assuming the Salary of the starting 3 we trade for is greater than Smart / Crowder...that will cut into our 18.4 million in cap space which probably means we don't have enough room to pry J. Green from memphis. I like the thinking though. If you swap the 18 pick for the 17 pick then it gets a little more realistic...but of course no Fultz.

Thanks for your reply. To keep the '17 pick I'd even consider using Olynyk in the trade too but unsure when he becomes tradeable after a new deal (apologies for not knowing the CBA well).

Also, if we trade after the season starts & our signings are set does that enable us to take a little more salary back?

assuming Paul George as trade target. he makes 18.3 this year and 19.5 next year. if a trade happens on draft day then 18.3 is used. If after July begins then 19.5. if either team goes over the cap as a result of the trade them Salaries must be within 150% or 5,000,000, whichever is less. Cs would need to send at least 13.3 million over if a trade happened on draft day. Thats easy because the still have Zellers 8 million non guaranteed contract...but he comes off the book July 1 so can t work after the new offseason starts (July 1).

The Cs have 18.4 million in space assuming all guaranteed salaries, 2017 brooklyn pick and Olynyks cap hold.

If they make a draft day trade like that Smart, Zeller, Crowder, and 2018 brooklyn pick for PG. then they cut into 2017-18 cap space significantly and can't really sign much of a free agent. PG (19.5_- Crowder (6.7)- Smart (4.5) = 8.3. cap space 18.4 - 8.3 = 10.4 million.

Now I think we could trade Olynyk in mid december if we sign him..that might be mid Jan?


check out Smittys Resources on the Trade Board.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1441629

[bucknersrevenge]

Will it be possible/beneficial to go this route for next year? Taking into consideration the Cap, etc.

Draft Fultz
Sign J. Green from Memphis in FA.
Re-sign Olynyk.
Trade Smart, Crowder, BKN '18 for a starting 3.
Keep G. Green cheap.

Thomas/Fultz
Bradley/Rozier/G.Green
Trade Target/Brown
J. Green/Olynyk/Yabu
Horford/Zizic

This is what I've been talking about lately and I think it's perfectly reasonable. Whether you want to slide Butler or George in there, either way you've added some punch to your lineup. Not sure I want to keep Kelly, but that group adds a 2nd go to scorer that can make plays. You have AB for 1 more year and then after that you probably let Brown start. You have some current talent in their prime, you have some that are young and can grow in a winning environment.

[Asian Celtic]

The FA i want if we strike out with Hayward is BG. Let's assume we get BG. We lose also on the 1st pick going 2nd. What would be a "not so bad" scenario?

Starting 5.
IT
Brown
Crowder
Griffin
Horford

Back ups with
#2 Ball
Green
Smart
Yabu
Zizic

We let KO, Young, Amir, Jerebko walk. Then Bradley is left to be traded, who do you think would be a good trade candidate for him?

[Wes-J]

I'm sorry, when did any of those guys save Horford become 6'9? Average 7 rebs in under 28mpg. This is a plug n play 4. And again, when did PAUL GEORGE become part of this "collection of types" you speak of?

Not talking about a specific skill set we need. I'm saying in general we aren't in the market for Green type guys. Ainge didn't make such moves, he's waiting for something else.

I feel like we're talking past each other so I'm gonna let it go. Danny's in search and then after that, he's going to want to fill in the gaps. There were whispers during the deadline that Green was someone that they were interested in actually. But back then I think it was mostly high-level stuff and they would revisit it during the offseason. But if you don't think George and Green are players that can help us, so be it. I'll let it go now because you ignored my response about Paul George and you say they're looking for something else (not a skillset) but haven't been really clear on what that is.

Was never speaking of George. Player in question is J.Green.

[TheOGJabroni]

I don't understand why everyone thinks PG is a lock to the Lakers. I know he's from LA, but if his btching and moaning showed anything, it's he desperately wants to win.

PG's complaints sound eerily like the ones we heard from Paul Pierce in 2007, just before the KG/RA trades.

At this point, barring some miracle for Indy, he's almost certainly a goner. If I am Ainge, Hayward is my #1 priority, but PG13 is #1B and frankly even if we get Hayward I'd push to acquire PG too.

I'm so back and forth with what I want Ainge to do. If the price tag for George or Butler remains crazy, I just go after Hayward. But if it's reasonable, I might take my chances in a trade for a couple reasons:

1. I think both are slightly better players than Hayward
2. Their salary is smaller for next season (plus if we have to send out players to Indiana, we have plenty of cap room to make additional moves).

[SmartWentCrazy]

I don't understand why everyone thinks PG is a lock to the Lakers. I know he's from LA, but if his btching and moaning showed anything, it's he desperately wants to win.

PG's complaints sound eerily like the ones we heard from Paul Pierce in 2007, just before the KG/RA trades.

At this point, barring some miracle for Indy, he's almost certainly a goner. If I am Ainge, Hayward is my #1 priority, but PG13 is #1B and frankly even if we get Hayward I'd push to acquire PG too.

100% this.

There's a rumor that every FA/soon to be FA with LA ties will go back home: Love, Westbrook, DeRozan. Until they actually put a competitive product on the floor, I don't buy it.

Honestly, the LA rumor reminds me a lot of what Cousins' agent did to try to squash trades so that the player can sign for the early super max. There was/is a real chance PG13 makes an all-NBA team this year and gets the 5/216 extension. No way any agent worth anything allows this option to be taken off the table.

[Gomes3PC]

I don't understand why everyone thinks PG is a lock to the Lakers. I know he's from LA, but if his btching and moaning showed anything, it's he desperately wants to win.

PG's complaints sound eerily like the ones we heard from Paul Pierce in 2007, just before the KG/RA trades.

At this point, barring some miracle for Indy, he's almost certainly a goner. If I am Ainge, Hayward is my #1 priority, but PG13 is #1B and frankly even if we get Hayward I'd push to acquire PG too.

I'm so back and forth with what I want Ainge to do. If the price tag for George or Butler remains crazy, I just go after Hayward. But if it's reasonable, I might take my chances in a trade for a couple reasons:

1. I think both are slightly better players than Hayward
2. Their salary is smaller for next season (plus if we have to send out players to Indiana, we have plenty of cap room to make additional moves).

I don't think it is an either/or proposition. I think they should go after Hayward no matter what, because he costs nothing but cap space.

If Hayward signs with Boston, you can then utilize Bradley in a trade for George. Acquiring Hayward actually makes it easier IMO to get PG or Butler. Offer something like Bradley, Crowder, Rozier and the 2017 Nets pick for either one. That's a lot but after that you'd have a rotation of IT, Hayward, George, Brown, Horford, Smart, plus whatever vets you can wrangle. Frankly that seven-man plus a rebounding big is all you need, plus you retain the 2018 Nets pick for either another deal or for future reloading.

[TheOGJabroni]

I don't understand why everyone thinks PG is a lock to the Lakers. I know he's from LA, but if his btching and moaning showed anything, it's he desperately wants to win.

PG's complaints sound eerily like the ones we heard from Paul Pierce in 2007, just before the KG/RA trades.

At this point, barring some miracle for Indy, he's almost certainly a goner. If I am Ainge, Hayward is my #1 priority, but PG13 is #1B and frankly even if we get Hayward I'd push to acquire PG too.

I'm so back and forth with what I want Ainge to do. If the price tag for George or Butler remains crazy, I just go after Hayward. But if it's reasonable, I might take my chances in a trade for a couple reasons:

1. I think both are slightly better players than Hayward
2. Their salary is smaller for next season (plus if we have to send out players to Indiana, we have plenty of cap room to make additional moves).

I don't think it is an either/or proposition. I think they should go after Hayward no matter what, because he costs nothing but cap space.

If Hayward signs with Boston, you can then utilize Bradley in a trade for George. Acquiring Hayward actually makes it easier IMO to get PG or Butler. Offer something like Bradley, Crowder, Rozier and the 2017 Nets pick for either one. That's a lot but after that you'd have a rotation of IT, Hayward, George, Brown, Horford, Smart, plus whatever vets you can wrangle. Frankly that seven-man plus a rebounding big is all you need, plus you retain the 2018 Nets pick for either another deal or for future reloading.

It isn't necessarily an either/or situation but I personally feel, if we go the trade route for a wing player, we should look to sign a front court player. If we sign a wing player, I'd like us to trade for a front court player. I'm not opposed to trying to get both though.

[Homerclease]

I don't understand why everyone thinks PG is a lock to the Lakers. I know he's from LA, but if his btching and moaning showed anything, it's he desperately wants to win.

PG's complaints sound eerily like the ones we heard from Paul Pierce in 2007, just before the KG/RA trades.

At this point, barring some miracle for Indy, he's almost certainly a goner. If I am Ainge, Hayward is my #1 priority, but PG13 is #1B and frankly even if we get Hayward I'd push to acquire PG too.

I'm so back and forth with what I want Ainge to do. If the price tag for George or Butler remains crazy, I just go after Hayward. But if it's reasonable, I might take my chances in a trade for a couple reasons:

1. I think both are slightly better players than Hayward
2. Their salary is smaller for next season (plus if we have to send out players to Indiana, we have plenty of cap room to make additional moves).

I don't think it is an either/or proposition. I think they should go after Hayward no matter what, because he costs nothing but cap space.

If Hayward signs with Boston, you can then utilize Bradley in a trade for George. Acquiring Hayward actually makes it easier IMO to get PG or Butler. Offer something like Bradley, Crowder, Rozier and the 2017 Nets pick for either one. That's a lot but after that you'd have a rotation of IT, Hayward, George, Brown, Horford, Smart, plus whatever vets you can wrangle. Frankly that seven-man plus a rebounding big is all you need, plus you retain the 2018 Nets pick for either another deal or for future reloading.

Agree, the question to me is order of operations. They may have to pull the trigger on the deal first to lure Hayward out of Utah to begin with. It's a risk if Hayward turns us down after getting George or Butler but we take a step forward if we pull the trigger regardless. I was hopeful that Hayward would jump ship without the Celtics dealing the pick but my hopes on that are quickly waining

[TheOGJabroni]

I'm so back and forth with what I want Ainge to do. If the price tag for George or Butler remains crazy, I just go after Hayward. But if it's reasonable, I might take my chances in a trade for a couple reasons:

1. I think both are slightly better players than Hayward
2. Their salary is smaller for next season (plus if we have to send out players to Indiana, we have plenty of cap room to make additional moves).

I don't think it is an either/or proposition. I think they should go after Hayward no matter what, because he costs nothing but cap space.

If Hayward signs with Boston, you can then utilize Bradley in a trade for George. Acquiring Hayward actually makes it easier IMO to get PG or Butler. Offer something like Bradley, Crowder, Rozier and the 2017 Nets pick for either one. That's a lot but after that you'd have a rotation of IT, Hayward, George, Brown, Horford, Smart, plus whatever vets you can wrangle. Frankly that seven-man plus a rebounding big is all you need, plus you retain the 2018 Nets pick for either another deal or for future reloading.

Agree, the question to me is order of operations. They may have to pull the trigger on the deal first to lure Hayward out of Utah to begin with. It's a risk if Hayward turns us down after getting George or Butler but we take a step forward if we pull the trigger regardless. I was hopeful that Hayward would jump ship without the Celtics dealing the pick but my hopes on that are quickly waining

Yep, it's very much like last offseason. We signed Al (helpful no matter what), but as many believe, it was also positioning for us trying to sign KD as well. We need to make that first move that helps us no matter what but with eyes towards the follow up move as well.

[Gomes3PC]

I'm so back and forth with what I want Ainge to do. If the price tag for George or Butler remains crazy, I just go after Hayward. But if it's reasonable, I might take my chances in a trade for a couple reasons:

1. I think both are slightly better players than Hayward
2. Their salary is smaller for next season (plus if we have to send out players to Indiana, we have plenty of cap room to make additional moves).

I don't think it is an either/or proposition. I think they should go after Hayward no matter what, because he costs nothing but cap space.

If Hayward signs with Boston, you can then utilize Bradley in a trade for George. Acquiring Hayward actually makes it easier IMO to get PG or Butler. Offer something like Bradley, Crowder, Rozier and the 2017 Nets pick for either one. That's a lot but after that you'd have a rotation of IT, Hayward, George, Brown, Horford, Smart, plus whatever vets you can wrangle. Frankly that seven-man plus a rebounding big is all you need, plus you retain the 2018 Nets pick for either another deal or for future reloading.

Agree, the question to me is order of operations. They may have to pull the trigger on the deal first to lure Hayward out of Utah to begin with. It's a risk if Hayward turns us down after getting George or Butler but we take a step forward if we pull the trigger regardless. I was hopeful that Hayward would jump ship without the Celtics dealing the pick but my hopes on that are quickly waining

Yeah more likely you acquire Butler or George first, then lure Hayward (or maybe even Blake if he's healthy and wants a fresh start). Ultimately it will have to be a bit of a leap of faith, as IMO we're two pieces from true contention. Just like the Ray Allen trade prior to the KG deal coming together, you have to take a risk eventually.

[Homerclease]

I don't think it is an either/or proposition. I think they should go after Hayward no matter what, because he costs nothing but cap space.

If Hayward signs with Boston, you can then utilize Bradley in a trade for George. Acquiring Hayward actually makes it easier IMO to get PG or Butler. Offer something like Bradley, Crowder, Rozier and the 2017 Nets pick for either one. That's a lot but after that you'd have a rotation of IT, Hayward, George, Brown, Horford, Smart, plus whatever vets you can wrangle. Frankly that seven-man plus a rebounding big is all you need, plus you retain the 2018 Nets pick for either another deal or for future reloading.

Agree, the question to me is order of operations. They may have to pull the trigger on the deal first to lure Hayward out of Utah to begin with. It's a risk if Hayward turns us down after getting George or Butler but we take a step forward if we pull the trigger regardless. I was hopeful that Hayward would jump ship without the Celtics dealing the pick but my hopes on that are quickly waining

Yeah more likely you acquire Butler or George first, then lure Hayward (or maybe even Blake if he's healthy and wants a fresh start). Ultimately it will have to be a bit of a leap of faith, as IMO we're two pieces from true contention. Just like the Ray Allen trade prior to the KG deal coming together, you have to take a risk eventually.

This can still change too as the playoffs unfold. If the Celtics advance and somehow make it out of the second round as well I could still see Hayward jumping ship if the Jazz get bounced early by the Clippers. A lot of what ifs in that scenario though and I suspect just the opposite. I think Boston and Utah both bow out in round 2 this year

[ConstableGeneva]

Dunno if there's any substance/truth to this...

“The Cavs were on pins and needles yesterday about the Celtics (possibly) getting Paul George or Jimmy Butler”.

Windhorst then shed light on the thinking of the Cavs amidst the rumors.

“If it’s Isaiah Thomas, Al Horford, and Jimmy Butler, the Cavs might be out there saying, ‘We might have to trade Kevin Love,'” Windhorst surmised.

That was from Lowe Post podcast post-trade deadline. I think Windbag also mentioned that IT-Hayward-Horford doesn't scare Lebron/Cavs as much as PG does.

[Homerclease]

Dunno if there's any substance/truth to this...

“The Cavs were on pins and needles yesterday about the Celtics (possibly) getting Paul George or Jimmy Butler”.

Windhorst then shed light on the thinking of the Cavs amidst the rumors.

“If it’s Isaiah Thomas, Al Horford, and Jimmy Butler, the Cavs might be out there saying, ‘We might have to trade Kevin Love,'” Windhorst surmised.

That was from Lowe Post podcast post-trade deadline. I think Windbag also mentioned that IT-Hayward-Horford doesn't scare Lebron/Cavs as much as PG does.

I don't think anyone is going to say that Hayward is better than Butler or George, the difference is one costs players and the other costs money. I think the plan is to add both and make a run at it here.