This offseason

[MrDollarBills]

Honestly, Lin's performance versus the Heat last year was the reason why I became interested in him coming here. He was playing some really aggressive defense and getting after it.

Outside of the hamstring issue, Lin has not disappointed in the slightest regarding what I saw then versus what I expected to get here. His 3pt shooting has been a real bonus too (as a Net).

[Prokorov]

Honestly, Lin's performance versus the Heat last year was the reason why I became interested in him coming here. He was playing some really aggressive defense and getting after it.

Outside of the hamstring issue, Lin has not disappointed in the slightest regarding what I saw then versus what I expected to get here. His 3pt shooting has been a real bonus too (as a Net).

Lin has been everything id imagined as well... solid high iq play, all around game, high effort, great charecter and a competitive guy. i have no issues with Lin... just his fans who try and put him on this unrealistically high pedistal and cant handle anytime someone calls him anything less then the perfect player or any of his games less then perfect games.

[MrDollarBills]

Honestly, Lin's performance versus the Heat last year was the reason why I became interested in him coming here. He was playing some really aggressive defense and getting after it.

Outside of the hamstring issue, Lin has not disappointed in the slightest regarding what I saw then versus what I expected to get here. His 3pt shooting has been a real bonus too (as a Net).

Lin has been everything id imagined as well... solid high iq play, all around game, high effort, great charecter and a competitive guy. i have no issues with Lin... just his fans who try and put him on this unrealistically high pedistal and cant handle anytime someone calls him anything less then the perfect player or any of his games less then perfect games.

agreed. some balance is definitely needed in the discussion about him

anyway i saw Nyce's post so, i guess we need to dead this conversation

[Vae Victus]

Prok, you get baited way too easily and then take things personally, by trying to smash out stats and other researchable data. The best thing to do when confronted with an idiot/troll is to just ignore them. Kswiss is quite clearly a Lin hating troll disguised as a fan, it's pretty old hat for those types to start up obviously stupid **** like he did just now, with the express purpose to piss off fans of the team Lin is on. I've already called out his obvious trolling ass numerous times before, but whatever, clearly such warnings keep falling on deaf ears.

This offseason is gonna be sooooooooooo interesting. Cap space, FA, and the foundation of a good team culture, Marks might just surprise us.

[reelsgm]

Question is: Could ANY starting level PG lead most talent-less (oxymoronic?) team to wins like Lin post ASB? -- Most believe, yes.

But focus on gm 82 a moment. Caveats: 1) One game sample size minimal relevancy, take with grain-of-salt; 2) Bropez also out but many aren't convinced his ability to lead wins anyway.

Fact remains a pre-Lin starting lineup: Dinw,Foye,CLV,RHJ,JHam for Bropez played hard against Bulls A-team but they cooked us all 4 Qs. Bulls even bricked shot-after-shot but we played worse. Bench awful - KJ, IW terrible. Reality-check game, stark difference - a throwback to some "I'm-getting-mine" play of earlier.

Final Bulls game indicated, despite the vaunted "improvement" of development guys -- we're still a hairs away from 12 win abysmal-ness.

Don't know who else/how many others could lead us to Wins but to believe this team's "improvement" without a skilled capable leader at point gets us out of deep cellar -- is pure fantasy.

Using game 82, which was basically the first game that the Nets mailed in the entire season, as a barometer for anything is pretty ridiculous. The Nets getting stomped by a focused Bulls team without their two best players proves absolutely nothing about the other guys on this team.

Quite the Revisionism

There were at least 5 guys playing potentially for their careers - nobody Mailed in anything, they just got beat from pillar to post with just our 2 starters sitting. Go rewatch the game, players played hard (in their own little bubbles) for 48 min Goodwin had 20pts.

[MrDollarBills]

Question is: Could ANY starting level PG lead most talent-less (oxymoronic?) team to wins like Lin post ASB? -- Most believe, yes.

But focus on gm 82 a moment. Caveats: 1) One game sample size minimal relevancy, take with grain-of-salt; 2) Bropez also out but many aren't convinced his ability to lead wins anyway.

Fact remains a pre-Lin starting lineup: Dinw,Foye,CLV,RHJ,JHam for Bropez played hard against Bulls A-team but they cooked us all 4 Qs. Bulls even bricked shot-after-shot but we played worse. Bench awful - KJ, IW terrible. Reality-check game, stark difference - a throwback to some "I'm-getting-mine" play of earlier.

Final Bulls game indicated, despite the vaunted "improvement" of development guys -- we're still a hairs away from 12 win abysmal-ness.

Don't know who else/how many others could lead us to Wins but to believe this team's "improvement" without a skilled capable leader at point gets us out of deep cellar -- is pure fantasy.

Using game 82, which was basically the first game that the Nets mailed in the entire season, as a barometer for anything is pretty ridiculous. The Nets getting stomped by a focused Bulls team without their two best players proves absolutely nothing about the other guys on this team.

Quite the Revisionism

There were at least 5 guys playing potentially for their careers - nobody Mailed in anything, they just got beat from pillar to post with just our 2 starters sitting. Go rewatch the game, players played hard (in their own little bubbles) for 48 min Goodwin had 20pts.

The game was mailed in because we benched our two best players. To sit here and use that as a referendum on the improvement of the other guys, or use it to paint Lin as a god and savior, is blatantly dishonest.

You basically tried to use that as a cheap shot at the younger players at that. Never fails, just when you think the forum has turned the corner, we get someone out of the woodworks trying to not so subtly trash the other Nets players to fuel their ridiculous and sad inferiority complex surrounding Jeremy Lin. and is it a wonder why Prok went on a tirade?

[MrDollarBills]

Prok, you get baited way too easily and then take things personally, by trying to smash out stats and other researchable data. The best thing to do when confronted with an idiot/troll is to just ignore them. Kswiss is quite clearly a Lin hating troll disguised as a fan, it's pretty old hat for those types to start up obviously stupid **** like he did just now, with the express purpose to piss off fans of the team Lin is on. I've already called out his obvious trolling ass numerous times before, but whatever, clearly such warnings keep falling on deaf ears.

This offseason is gonna be sooooooooooo interesting. Cap space, FA, and the foundation of a good team culture, Marks might just surprise us.

I had a feeling that this guy was trolling. I'm with you, if that's the kind of crap that's going on I hope the mods take him outside and **** him in the street

[reelsgm]

Using game 82, which was basically the first game that the Nets mailed in the entire season, as a barometer for anything is pretty ridiculous. The Nets getting stomped by a focused Bulls team without their two best players proves absolutely nothing about the other guys on this team.

Quite the Revisionism

There were at least 5 guys playing potentially for their careers - nobody Mailed in anything, they just got beat from pillar to post with just our 2 starters sitting. Go rewatch the game, players played hard (in their own little bubbles) for 48 min Goodwin had 20pts.

The game was mailed in because we benched our two best players. To sit here and use that as a referendum on the improvement of the other guys, or use it to paint Lin as a god and savior, is blatantly dishonest.

You basically tried to use that as a cheap shot at the younger players at that. Never fails, just when you think the forum has turned the corner, we get someone out of the woodworks trying to not so subtly trash the other Nets players to fuel their ridiculous and sad inferiority complex surrounding Jeremy Lin. and is it a wonder why Prok went on a tirade?

If we're now talking intellectual honesty, there are for example, some who believe various young players' improvement such as RHJ's play at 4 catalyzed team to trend 35-40 Win ball down stretch.

Games like #82 indicate that's fanciful.

More likely - the driver of majority of any improvement by some youngsters was Lin's return (and the finer points of why is open for discussion)... e.g. Booker was our best PF by far, even HIS performance improved with Lin on the floor.

Not a cheap shot - I wish the starting unit who played hard without Lin had looked good in that game.

[GoodDayLa]

Please don't do this.

- Rich Rane

[GoodDayLa]

Would like for Nets to get Serge Ibaka at PF. Think this should be one of their top summer goals. He shares an agent with 2 current Nets. Get it done Sean M.

[MrDollarBills]

Quite the Revisionism

There were at least 5 guys playing potentially for their careers - nobody Mailed in anything, they just got beat from pillar to post with just our 2 starters sitting. Go rewatch the game, players played hard (in their own little bubbles) for 48 min Goodwin had 20pts.

The game was mailed in because we benched our two best players. To sit here and use that as a referendum on the improvement of the other guys, or use it to paint Lin as a god and savior, is blatantly dishonest.

You basically tried to use that as a cheap shot at the younger players at that. Never fails, just when you think the forum has turned the corner, we get someone out of the woodworks trying to not so subtly trash the other Nets players to fuel their ridiculous and sad inferiority complex surrounding Jeremy Lin. and is it a wonder why Prok went on a tirade?

If we're now talking intellectual honesty, there are for example, some who believe various young players' improvement such as RHJ's play at 4 catalyzed team to trend 35-40 Win ball down stretch.

Games like #82 indicate that's fanciful.

More likely - the driver of majority of any improvement by some youngsters was Lin's return (and the finer points of why is open for discussion)... e.g. Booker was our best PF by far, even HIS performance improved with Lin on the floor.

Not a cheap shot - I wish the starting unit who played hard without Lin had looked good in that game.

a few things helped the Nets look a lot better down the stretch:

a)Lin's return of course

b)Brook Lopez playing like an offensive machine

c)Kilpatrick not playing much, Bojan being shipped out = better defense overall

d)RHJ and LeVert shifting to the starting PF and SF position allowed for the Nets to play a lot better defensively.

e) getting solid minutes on both ends from Dinwiddie, McDaniels, Whitehead etc on a given night.

It's not just one guy. You're trying to pass off Lin as having some kind of Lebron like impact when that is not true, nor is game 82 any indicator of frankly anything since it was a game where the Nets frankly conceded well before tip off.

And the very fact that you'd have the gall to say that the driver of any of the kids' improvement is because of Lin's return is fascinating considering that they all developed and went through ups and downs when Lin was on the sidelines for 90% of the season wearing a sports jacket and a pair of skinny jeans.

[Prokorov]

he was certainly impactful though. here are a couple of articles during the three game run. he didn't bring it in game 6.

http://www.nba.com/hornets/lin-leads-hornets-playoff-win/
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/jeremy-lin-charlotte-hornets-miami-heat-nba-playoffs-042616
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/charlotte-hornets/article74523722.html

If you discount all the games he played poorly, and only count the games he played well in, then sure he was good in the playoffs. But thats not how it works. Sure at times, he was good. certain games he was good. but overall he didnt have a good playoffs any of the 3 seasons his teams made it.... and he CERTAINLY did NOT have a "great" or "lights out" playoffs.

I'm sorry but thats not how it works... you cant shift goal posts like that. if someone says Lin is better then Chris Paul and has been great in the playoffs you cant just change the standard of greatness to having a few decent games.

Lin is not better then CP3 or even close. Like it really makes Lin fans look terrible for someone to say that.
Lin was not great in the playoffs either last year or as whole for his career.

Again if you want to say Lin is a legit starting PG or Lin wasnt bad in the playoffs, thats a different discussion.

i have no interest in having the lin versus chris paul discussion. i just think the argument that lin sucked during the hornets playoffs doesnt make any sense if you just look at the box scores.

Who said Lin sucked? no one said that. I just refuted that he had a "great, lights out" series. There is alot of room between CP3/Great and Sucking.

[Prokorov]

Quite the Revisionism

There were at least 5 guys playing potentially for their careers - nobody Mailed in anything, they just got beat from pillar to post with just our 2 starters sitting. Go rewatch the game, players played hard (in their own little bubbles) for 48 min Goodwin had 20pts.

The game was mailed in because we benched our two best players. To sit here and use that as a referendum on the improvement of the other guys, or use it to paint Lin as a god and savior, is blatantly dishonest.

You basically tried to use that as a cheap shot at the younger players at that. Never fails, just when you think the forum has turned the corner, we get someone out of the woodworks trying to not so subtly trash the other Nets players to fuel their ridiculous and sad inferiority complex surrounding Jeremy Lin. and is it a wonder why Prok went on a tirade?

If we're now talking intellectual honesty, there are for example, some who believe various young players' improvement such as RHJ's play at 4 catalyzed team to trend 35-40 Win ball down stretch.

Games like #82 indicate that's fanciful.

More likely - the driver of majority of any improvement by some youngsters was Lin's return (and the finer points of why is open for discussion)... e.g. Booker was our best PF by far, even HIS performance improved with Lin on the floor.

Not a cheap shot - I wish the starting unit who played hard without Lin had looked good in that game.

a 1 game sample should never be used as evidence of anything.

[hood30]

Quite the Revisionism

There were at least 5 guys playing potentially for their careers - nobody Mailed in anything, they just got beat from pillar to post with just our 2 starters sitting. Go rewatch the game, players played hard (in their own little bubbles) for 48 min Goodwin had 20pts.

The game was mailed in because we benched our two best players. To sit here and use that as a referendum on the improvement of the other guys, or use it to paint Lin as a god and savior, is blatantly dishonest.

You basically tried to use that as a cheap shot at the younger players at that. Never fails, just when you think the forum has turned the corner, we get someone out of the woodworks trying to not so subtly trash the other Nets players to fuel their ridiculous and sad inferiority complex surrounding Jeremy Lin. and is it a wonder why Prok went on a tirade?

If we're now talking intellectual honesty, there are for example, some who believe various young players' improvement such as RHJ's play at 4 catalyzed team to trend 35-40 Win ball down stretch.

Games like #82 indicate that's fanciful.

More likely - the driver of majority of any improvement by some youngsters was Lin's return (and the finer points of why is open for discussion)... e.g. Booker was our best PF by far, even HIS performance improved with Lin on the floor.

Not a cheap shot - I wish the starting unit who played hard without Lin had looked good in that game.

It's clear to me Lin's return was the biggest reason Brooklyn's improved in the second half...You don't have to be a Lin fan to state the obvious......I also would like to state that any top 10 PG would had also improved the Nets, not just Lin.

Now, did the other young players also improved to make the team better?..The answer to that is YES, but their impact was still no where close to the impact Lin return made...You could even make the argument that Lin being on the team made the improvement of RHJ/Whitehead/LeVert possible...

Also, none of the young guys made huge glaring improvement as for stats, so I don't think it can be argued that the young guys improvement was as impactful as Lin's impact when he returned.

[kastuul]

The game was mailed in because we benched our two best players. To sit here and use that as a referendum on the improvement of the other guys, or use it to paint Lin as a god and savior, is blatantly dishonest.

You basically tried to use that as a cheap shot at the younger players at that. Never fails, just when you think the forum has turned the corner, we get someone out of the woodworks trying to not so subtly trash the other Nets players to fuel their ridiculous and sad inferiority complex surrounding Jeremy Lin. and is it a wonder why Prok went on a tirade?

If we're now talking intellectual honesty, there are for example, some who believe various young players' improvement such as RHJ's play at 4 catalyzed team to trend 35-40 Win ball down stretch.

Games like #82 indicate that's fanciful.

More likely - the driver of majority of any improvement by some youngsters was Lin's return (and the finer points of why is open for discussion)... e.g. Booker was our best PF by far, even HIS performance improved with Lin on the floor.

Not a cheap shot - I wish the starting unit who played hard without Lin had looked good in that game.

It's clear to me Lin's return was the biggest reason Brooklyn's improved in the second half...You don't have to be a Lin fan to state the obvious......I also would like to state that any top 10 PG would had also improved the Nets, not just Lin.

Now, did the other young players also improved to make the team better?..The answer to that is YES, but their impact was still no where close to the impact Lin return made...You could even make the argument that Lin being on the team made the improvement of RHJ/Whitehead/LeVert possible...

Also, none of the young guys made huge glaring improvement as for stats, so I don't think it can be argued that the young guys improvement was as impactful as Lin's impact when he returned.

The Nets lost so many games because they were missing Lin as defender and closer, more than PG.
Ppl didn't give enough respect to Lin in this criteria. And the importance of backup PG is overrated.

The team assists, FG%, rebounds and turnovers improved sightly after Lin's back.
But the defense and 4thquarter efficiency were much better.
The D.eff of BKN were -20.1, 30th(Pre-allstar) and -5.7,21st(Post-Allstar).

[MrDollarBills]

I really want to hear the logic behind saying RHJ/Whitehead/LeVert improved solely because of Jeremy Lin.

Especially when Lin didn't play in 90% of our games. so what, these guys only played better the day Lin came back and onward? That was a season long progression. RHJ especially, who started off poorly and finished the season being a huge catalyst for one of our biggest wins of the year versus Chicago. LeVert hit the ground running, I am not sure how anyone can look at how good this kid is and track how he went through ups and downs during the season to finish as one of the league's better rookies and attribute that to Lin.

Is Lin a big reason as to why we looked a lot better in the 2nd half? Yes he is. Is he the only reason? No. I'm not sure how you could call anything other than the latter an objective opinion on the matter.

Half the time Lin was getting irrationally dragged by a few of his fans for poor shooting during that stretch, now all of a sudden the narrative is that this guy breathed life into the lungs of all of the Nets' young players. There is no in between with Lin, is there?

[reelsgm]

L, L, L, L, L,
L, L, L, L, L,
L, W, L, L, L,
L, L, L, L, L,
L, L, L, L, L, L

so what, these guys only played better the day Lin came back and onward?

L, L, W, L, L,
W, L, W, L, L,
W, W, L, W, L,
L, W, W, W, L,
W, L, L

I really want to hear the logic behind saying RHJ/Whitehead/LeVert improved solely because of Jeremy Lin.

Better question is where IN-the-ABOVE you logically see evidence of "season long progression"? Progression has implications : improvement, development, progress.

I suspect the answer is once again the standard response: "don't care if we WIN zero, 0-82 acceptable", if such is the case, there's no point in attempting further rational/logical discussion on this subject.

[MrDollarBills]

You are going to judge individual rookie and 2nd year player progression based on wins and losses? That's apples and oranges by a mile.

Look, I'm not going to sit here and kiss Jeremy Lin's ass or entertain outright intellectual dishonesty about what has happened. Every game the Nets won, they won as a team. It's so funny to see this kind of stuff coming up now, when you guys KILLED Lin for shooting poorly in several of these games to the point where I had to defend the guy from clearly irrational, childish expectations being placed onto him by his fans, and yet you're going to turn around and say he's the only reason why the Nets won, or why the young guys showed improvement? ok. Truth is, Lin is one of multiple factors that went into the Nets' late season finish. Not the sole reason. Nor was he the reason why any of the young players, especially Caris LeVert who has a high basketball IQ and a high upside perimeter skillset, improved as the season went along.

I like Jeremy Lin a lot, but I can do without that kind of spin on the events surrounding his time with our team quite honestly.

[FlipFlopShot]

You guys ok with another losing season? We can run with our draft picks right out of the gate.

If the stars align we may be able to draft OG Anunoby at 22nd.
Then we pick a big at 27th. (Jarret Allen or Justin Patton or Bam Adebayo or Harry Giles)

We strikeout during free agency with only getting Mike Muscala (Atkinson connection and wants to start) who can fill out either remaining interior spot. JJ Redick, Paul Millsap, Patty Mills and everyone will be ring chasing.

Without Lopez:

Jeremy Lin / Spencer Dinwiddie
Caris LeVert / Archie Goodwin
OG Anunoby / Joe Harris
Mike Muscala / Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
Jarret Allen / ???

With Lopez:

Jeremy Lin / Spencer Dinwiddie
Caris LeVert / Archie Goodwin
Joe Harris / OG Anunoby
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson / Mike Muscala
Brook Lopez / Jarret Allen

[jbeachboy]

You guys ok with another losing season? We can run with our draft picks right out of the gate.

If the stars align we may be able to draft OG Anunoby at 22nd.
Then we pick a big at 27th. (Jarret Allen or Justin Patton or Bam Adebayo or Harry Giles)

We strikeout during free agency with only getting Mike Muscala (Atkinson connection and wants to start) who can fill out either remaining interior spot. JJ Redick, Paul Millsap, Patty Mills and everyone will be ring chasing.

Without Lopez:

Jeremy Lin / Spencer Dinwiddie
Caris LeVert / Archie Goodwin
OG Anunoby / Joe Harris
Mike Muscala / Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
Jarret Allen / ???



With Lopez:

Jeremy Lin / Spencer Dinwiddie
Caris LeVert / Archie Goodwin
Joe Harris / OG Anunoby
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson / Mike Muscala
Brook Lopez / Jarret Allen

wheres kj mcdaniels and sean kilpatrick? is og a good shooter/offensive player? is he dropping to 22?