WCQF: P2 | (4) LA Clippers vs Utah Jazz (5) | UTA 4-3

[devilsace]

Look, the point of this thread was that Chris Paul is not leading a team as the best player to winning a playoff series that matters, such as one against another superstar, late in the playoffs. Never said he wasn't capable of leading a team out of the first round, particularly against a Utah team without arguably their best player. Big deal, ultimately. He's always been regarded as this top tier star, when he's more like a borderline top 10 player, due to his size and unwillingness to shoot at times (He's great when he does, but he isn't always aggressive enough). That's about good enough to lead you to the second round, which really doesn't matter when it comes down to it.

And to many, that point is ridiculous lol how can you pin something like that on one player? To me whats even more out there is that you picked probably the worst player to argue that case against.

Cp3 is one the, if not the most efficient player in nba history. He shoots well from the field, is ball heavy yet his assist to turnover ratio is insane and plays excellent defense. If his numbers im the playoffs were to change drastically then you would have a point, but they dont! He just about always puts up star numbers no matter what.

I would argue that someone from the bayou put bad juju on him before id say his playoff failures are because of him. I have watched this guys whole career and he is simply a master of the game, it really sucks that guys who are supposed to be his right hand (West, Blake) have their shortcomings and dont come through.

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Lol so 90% of the league doesnt matter...cuz most of the league is not going past the first round and any team in the west is gonna get slapped by GSW (maybe the spurs but even then the Dubs are loaded and balling)...so WB, Harden, Dwade, P.George, etc dont matter...Also, why even watch the nex Rox series then, the winner is just gonna get beat by GSW easily

[RSCD3_]

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Yet another reason to #FireDocRivers. Cutting Ingles was bad enough, but doing it in such a classless manner is just beyond the pale.

You think he personally knew his wife was showing up?

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[dautjazz]

quite frankly, I've been expecting the Jazz to be really good since last last season... it is a very well coached team with some good young players... adding G Hill and JJ only speed up the development of this team

The Jazz were on a 50 win pace after they got rid of Kanter in the 2014-15 season, and last year they would of been a 50 win team but they lost Favors and Gobert for over 20 games each, and had many other injuries. Hopefully next year we can catch a break for once and go for 60 wins.

[dautjazz]

Everyone is talking about Westbrook's awfull suporting cast, lets look at Clippers without Griffin...

Paul------- ----- Westbrook
Redick --------- Oladipo
Mbah a Moute - Roberson
Speights --------Gibson
Jordan --------- Adams
Crawford ------ Kanter
Rivers ---------- Mcdermott
Pierce ---------- Grant
Felton ---------- Abrines


I dont see any major advantage for Paul, am i wrong?

I'd MUCH rather have LAC's supporting cast no question

Out of those comparisons, I'd say the Clippers match up very well, and in atleast half those cases they win. I honestly would prefer Chris Paul for this year and maybe next year, I really feel his basketball IQ is SOO much higher than Westbrook. I don't personally think Paul would make the Thunder much better, but I feel the Clippers would be much worse with Westbrook in Paul's place.

[hardenASG13]

Look, the point of this thread was that Chris Paul is not leading a team as the best player to winning a playoff series that matters, such as one against another superstar, late in the playoffs. Never said he wasn't capable of leading a team out of the first round, particularly against a Utah team without arguably their best player. Big deal, ultimately. He's always been regarded as this top tier star, when he's more like a borderline top 10 player, due to his size and unwillingness to shoot at times (He's great when he does, but he isn't always aggressive enough). That's about good enough to lead you to the second round, which really doesn't matter when it comes down to it.

And to many, that point is ridiculous lol how can you pin something like that on one player? To me whats even more out there is that you picked probably the worst player to argue that case against.

Cp3 is one the, if not the most efficient player in nba history. He shoots well from the field, is ball heavy yet his assist to turnover ratio is insane and plays excellent defense. If his numbers im the playoffs were to change drastically then you would have a point, but they dont! He just about always puts up star numbers no matter what.

I would argue that someone from the bayou put bad juju on him before id say his playoff failures are because of him. I have watched this guys whole career and he is simply a master of the game, it really sucks that guys who are supposed to be his right hand (West, Blake) have their shortcomings and dont come through.

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Lol so 90% of the league doesnt matter...cuz most of the league is not going past the first round and any team in the west is gonna get slapped by GSW (maybe the spurs but even then the Dubs are loaded and balling)...so WB, Harden, Dwade, P.George, etc dont matter...Also, why even watch the nex Rox series then, the winner is just gonna get beat by GSW easily

Yea pretty much.....i think people are widely recognizing the lack of parody is a major problem.
90% of the teams really don't matter as they have no chance. WB and harden can lead a team to a title as the number one with the right cast, such as 2 all stars in the front court and some shooting around them. I don't think cp3 can. Too small and not aggressive enough. He'd be an elite 2nd best player though, same with guys like PG, Butler, etc.

[omaro34]

He's an overrated player that can't get his team over the hump. He's the leader of the team, and it seems every year they under perform in the playoffs.

[Triples333]

OP looking for ways to edit this to "Doc Rivers no longer matters"

Nope, not really. I didn't watch the game last night as it's the one series that doesn't matter at all as the winner is out next round. But yeah I see cp3 had 28 points on 10/19. Wow. Looking at others shooting numbers, looks like they would have been better with him shooting 24-25 shots. I know it might drop his ts %, But seems like his team needed 35 out of him, which skill wise he coulda got. But he didn't shoot enough. I've already forgotten about him for the year/this meaningless series. Unfortunately the Griffin injury robs us of another chance to see him get smoked by a good team and start screaming at his teammates and the refs.

Nice, maintain a high level of ignorance. It's your best shot at leaving this abomination of a thread alive. Ironically, as CP3 was the Clippers only chance at leaving that series alive.

He put up 18/5/9 with the NBA's top RPM in the reg season, and ratcheted that up to 27/6/10 on 53/44/92 and a PER North of 34 (winshares astronomically high as well) so far against one of the league's top defenses. Suffice to say, thread FAIL. He is only one man, but still very clearly a great player. Better than the MVP one could argue.

[Method28]

And to many, that point is ridiculous lol how can you pin something like that on one player? To me whats even more out there is that you picked probably the worst player to argue that case against.

Cp3 is one the, if not the most efficient player in nba history. He shoots well from the field, is ball heavy yet his assist to turnover ratio is insane and plays excellent defense. If his numbers im the playoffs were to change drastically then you would have a point, but they dont! He just about always puts up star numbers no matter what.

I would argue that someone from the bayou put bad juju on him before id say his playoff failures are because of him. I have watched this guys whole career and he is simply a master of the game, it really sucks that guys who are supposed to be his right hand (West, Blake) have their shortcomings and dont come through.

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Lol so 90% of the league doesnt matter...cuz most of the league is not going past the first round and any team in the west is gonna get slapped by GSW (maybe the spurs but even then the Dubs are loaded and balling)...so WB, Harden, Dwade, P.George, etc dont matter...Also, why even watch the nex Rox series then, the winner is just gonna get beat by GSW easily

Yea pretty much.....i think people are widely recognizing the lack of parody is a major problem.
90% of the teams really don't matter as they have no chance. WB and harden can lead a team to a title as the number one with the right cast, such as 2 all stars in the front court and some shooting around them. I don't think cp3 can. Too small and not aggressive enough. He'd be an elite 2nd best player though, same with guys like PG, Butler, etc.

But they HAVEN'T done it. Neither did Durant. What makes it ok for Westbrook and Harden to not lead their team to a title but when it comes to Paul, even though he does more than his share, he's to blame. Westy had the lead in the 4th in every game vs Houston but game 1, and they won 1 of them.....1! If hes such a closer, what happened?

Harden and Westy are high usage players who are turnover machines. Great players no doubt, but people see their flashy numbers and go crazy. Neither will sniff a title as the lone wolf or with the cast CP3 has. The Clippers roster looks great on paper, but when the playoffs come, its CP3 by himself.

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[mudsak]

Everyone is talking about Westbrook's awfull suporting cast, lets look at Clippers without Griffin...

Paul------- ----- Westbrook
Redick --------- Oladipo
Mbah a Moute - Roberson
Speights --------Gibson
Jordan --------- Adams
Crawford ------ Kanter
Rivers ---------- Mcdermott
Pierce ---------- Grant
Felton ---------- Abrines


I dont see any major advantage for Paul, am i wrong?

I'd MUCH rather have LAC's supporting cast no question

yeah... I think the Clippers are clearly the better team here. 1st off... Paul is the opposite of a loose cannon. He is the epitome of a player that makes the rest of his team better. Any one who wants to point the finger at CP3 as being a choker is out of their mind...he's arguably been the best player in the entire playoffs thus far. Just unreal performance. CP3 has also had a team specifically constructed to fit around him... Westbrook is dealing with a complete patchwork situation that's not quite built for him yet.

Negating Griffin obviously makes a HUGE difference to the Clippers roster.

Redick... miles ahead of Oladipo. Oladipo barely has more offensive consistency than Crawford. Redick is a brilliant player. The Jazz have done a phenomenal job of taking him out of this series.
Mbah vs. Roberson... hack-a-roberson became a strategy that actually affected that series.
Speights/Gibson - I'd take Gibson here, but Speights can spread the floor.
Jordan/Adams - Jordan is easily an upgrade here. Adams is a bad ass, but Jordan is as dominant a center as you're going to find.
Crawford/Kanter - Both these players seem to negate their positives by the liability they create on the defensive end. Kanter is more consistently reliable, but If Crawford heats up he's capable of completely taking over games. He must be an infuriating player to have on your team...so good, yet horrible at the same time.

[Method28]

OP looking for ways to edit this to "Doc Rivers no longer matters"

Nope, not really. I didn't watch the game last night as it's the one series that doesn't matter at all as the winner is out next round. But yeah I see cp3 had 28 points on 10/19. Wow. Looking at others shooting numbers, looks like they would have been better with him shooting 24-25 shots. I know it might drop his ts %, But seems like his team needed 35 out of him, which skill wise he coulda got. But he didn't shoot enough. I've already forgotten about him for the year/this meaningless series. Unfortunately the Griffin injury robs us of another chance to see him get smoked by a good team and start screaming at his teammates and the refs.

Nice, maintain a high level of ignorance. It's your best shot at leaving this abomination of a thread alive. Ironically, as CP3 was the Clippers only chance at leaving that series alive.

He put up 18/5/9 with the NBA's top RPM in the reg season, and ratcheted that up to 27/6/10 on 53/44/92 and a PER North of 34 (winshares astronomically high as well) so far against one of the league's top defenses. Suffice to say, thread FAIL. He is only one man, but still very clearly a great player. Better than the MVP one could argue.

Preach

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[MartinToVaught]

yeah... I think the Clippers are clearly the better team here. 1st off... Paul is the opposite of a loose cannon. He is the epitome of a player that makes the rest of his team better. Any one who wants to point the finger at CP3 as being a choker is out of their mind...he's arguably been the best player in the entire playoffs thus far. Just unreal performance.

This year, sure. Aside from Game 1, he's been fantastic. But in previous years, he's absolutely choked. We probably would have gone further in the playoffs some years if CP3 had been aggressive like Westbrook is.

Negating Griffin obviously makes a HUGE difference to the Clippers roster.

Glad some people are finally admitting this after years of hearing about how much better we'd be without him.

Redick... miles ahead of Oladipo. Oladipo barely has more offensive consistency than Crawford. Redick is a brilliant player. The Jazz have done a phenomenal job of taking him out of this series.

In fairness, JJ has always been a regular-season beast and a postseason disappointment. Not trying to take anything away from the Jazz, but our playoff opponents more often than not do a phenomenal job of taking him out of the series.

Crawford/Kanter - Both these players seem to negate their positives by the liability they create on the defensive end. Kanter is more consistently reliable, but If Crawford heats up he's capable of completely taking over games. He must be an infuriating player to have on your team...so good, yet horrible at the same time.

Jamal isn't even capable of "heating up" when it matters most. He's a historically terrible postseason shooter whose atrocious shot selection and lack of any other skills besides chucking get exposed against playoff defenses every year. He's not even playable in the regular season anymore. Our whole fanbase has wanted him gone for years.

With that said, I would still take our roster over the Thunder's.

[JoeyLightYears]

the lack of parody is a major problem.

I agree that the league needs more parody. For example, James Harden is far and away the most electrifying basketball player on the planet not so much for his basketball "skills" but because he treats each game like a piece of performance art, imitating some of the great physical actors in history. Who among us wasn't moved to tears at Harden's latest work, "Man in the concrete shoes"?

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[Luigi]

Two bad calls hurting the Jazz in the last two minutes of game 5:

http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/04/L2M-UTA-LAC-04-25-17.pdf

Glad we stayed focused.

[Warriorfan]

CP3 is the best free agent who may move but I doubt it. Griffin and CP3 will probably stay to get the biggest deals possible but who knows.

[MrSparkle]

I Find it funny when top players get scape-goated cause they can't take their teams very far...

First off, Griffin getting injured eliminates LAC's chances. It's a top-heavy team that's built on the Big-3, and the rest of the roster is a lot of fluff. Old-time Crawford and Pierce, Blue Devil JJ and vet. min. Wes and Luc aren't gonna carry any heavy loads in the Western Playoffs.

It's different than last year's Warriors, where they had enough depth to still advance through playoff rounds without Curry. Take CP3 off the Clippers, and they're winning as many games as the Sixers and Lakers.

But hey, I'll take CP3 on my team.

[Pennebaker]

Well then one can also say: "It's time to say it: KD no longer matters. Seriously. The Warriors don't need him. And the Thunder didn't need him to land the 6th seed in the West. The Clippers without CP3 would be a steaming pile of garbage. The Thunder without Durant? Still a top 6 team in their conference."

Right?

[Catchall]

Yeah, one of those calls would have given George Hill 3 free-throws and likely put the game further out of reach. That was right before Hayward dove and wrestled for the loose ball off Hill's miss.

The other call gave CP3 free-throws when Gobert swiped the ball out of bounds.

That's a five-point swing for the refs.

[Catchall]

He's an overrated player that can't get his team over the hump. He's the leader of the team, and it seems every year they under perform in the playoffs.

He's put up 27 pts and 11 assists while carrying the Clips offense in 4th quarters. He's also been the best player in the series. I wouldn't call that overrated.

[Method28]

He's an overrated player that can't get his team over the hump. He's the leader of the team, and it seems every year they under perform in the playoffs.

He's put up 27 pts and 11 assists while carrying the Clips offense in 4th quarters. He's also been the best player in the series. I wouldn't call that overrated.

Must b cuz he dunt have da ringzzzz like Westy & Da Beard!

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[Edrees]

I Find it funny when top players get scape-goated cause they can't take their teams very far...

First off, Griffin getting injured eliminates LAC's chances. It's a top-heavy team that's built on the Big-3, and the rest of the roster is a lot of fluff. Old-time Crawford and Pierce, Blue Devil JJ and vet. min. Wes and Luc aren't gonna carry any heavy loads in the Western Playoffs.

It's different than last year's Warriors, where they had enough depth to still advance through playoff rounds without Curry. Take CP3 off the Clippers, and they're winning as many games as the Sixers and Lakers.

But hey, I'll take CP3 on my team.

DAJ isn't a big 3. I'm so sick of hearing this. If he was a "big 3" they'd get out of the first round without their third. Cp3 is doing it all alone out there, DeAndre Jordan isn't doing jack - he had 14 points in 40 minutes. He is a role player, hardly worthly of a "big3" title. It's like calling Patrick Beverly + James harden a big 2, when in reality one is there for defense and to be a role player, and can't carry the team in any capacity whatsoever.