Your Unpopular Basketball Opinions? [PC Board Edition]

[GeneralManager]

And prime for prime I'd take LeBron over Jordan.

It's apparent you think shooting outside 3 feet is wholly irrelevant. Case in point, trex.

You should push back on these people more than pushing back on me...the overrating of LeBron is astonishing.

Distance: ‪3-10 / 10-16 / 16-23.75‬ / 23.75+

LeBron: 42.8% / 36.3% / 38.6% / 34%
Jordan: 50% / 49% / 45% / 33% (approximated using Kobe's data & overall percent difference between Kobe & Jordan).

Comp: -7% / -12.5% / -6.5% / +1%

Wow...just wow.

[Goudelock]

And prime for prime I'd take LeBron over Jordan.

It's apparent you think shooting outside 3 feet is wholly irrelevant. Case in point, trex.

You should push back on these people more than pushing back on me...the overrating of LeBron is astonishing.

It's actually not apparent at all, considering I never said that. If you're gonna use my post to prove a point somewhere else, maybe don't strawman.

Why do you have LeBron over Jordan? I can probably guess why, but I'd like to hear your reasoning. btw, you used to be Milbuck, right?

To get away from LeBron........JAMES WORTHY HAD THE BEST FIRST STEP IN NBA HISTORY.

[Prez]

It's apparent you think shooting outside 3 feet is wholly irrelevant. Case in point, trex.

You should push back on these people more than pushing back on me...the overrating of LeBron is astonishing.

It's actually not apparent at all, considering I never said that. If you're gonna use my post to prove a point somewhere else, maybe don't strawman.

Why do you have LeBron over Jordan? I can probably guess why, but I'd like to hear your reasoning. btw, you used to be Milbuck, right?

To get away from LeBron........JAMES WORTHY HAD THE BEST FIRST STEP IN NBA HISTORY.

I meant more from like a team building way, like I'd rather have LeBron than Jordan. I just think nobody brings as much all-around two way impact as LeBron at his best. He's proven he's probably the greatest team-carrier of all time, just single handedly elevating teams and making something good out of crap. And the longevity of him doing that is becoming borderline hilarious, he's blowing past ATGs in longevity like they're jokes. Although I guess I did say prime for prime, so meh. I think Jordan is likely a better ceiling raiser, but LeBron isn't that far off imo given how well his off-ball game has developed since Miami and how well he's functioned in some of Cleveland's motion sets. And defensively I think at his absolute best his versatility just puts him a bit above Jordan on that end. Like for huge stretches in the finals, especially games 5-7, dude was playing GOAT tier defense and not just man defense but a one man wrecking crew of a team defender as well. Another scary thing about LeBron imo is that he could've been even better, like if he had been developed under a guy like Pop or Riley from the start, ****.

Oh and yea originally Milbuck. Had to change the username to honor the GOAT and future POTUS Malcolm Brogdon

[GeneralManager]

It's actually not apparent at all, considering I never said that. If you're gonna use my post to prove a point somewhere else, maybe don't strawman.

Why do you have LeBron over Jordan? I can probably guess why, but I'd like to hear your reasoning. btw, you used to be Milbuck, right?

To get away from LeBron........JAMES WORTHY HAD THE BEST FIRST STEP IN NBA HISTORY.

I meant more from like a team building way, like I'd rather have LeBron than Jordan. I just think nobody brings as much all-around two way impact as LeBron at his best. He's proven he's probably the greatest team-carrier of all time, just single handedly elevating teams and making something good out of crap. And the longevity of him doing that is becoming borderline hilarious, he's blowing past ATGs in longevity like they're jokes. Although I guess I did say prime for prime, so meh. I think Jordan is likely a better ceiling raiser, but LeBron isn't that far off imo given how well his off-ball game has developed since Miami and how well he's functioned in some of Cleveland's motion sets. And defensively I think at his absolute best his versatility just puts him a bit above Jordan on that end. Like for huge stretches in the finals, especially games 5-7, dude was playing GOAT tier defense and not just man defense but a one man wrecking crew of a team defender as well. Another scary thing about LeBron imo is that he could've been even better, like if he had been developed under a guy like Pop or Riley from the start, ****.

Oh and yea originally Milbuck. Had to change the username to honor the GOAT and future POTUS Malcolm Brogdon

Greatest team-stacker of all-time, that's for sure.

[Doctor MJ]

Wow, this thread is really taking off again, and I guess I never posted before. Lemme see:

The major difference between Jordan and most inefficient volume scorers is talent not BBIQ.

If not for the single most important and insightful coaching move in history by Alex Hannum, Wilt Chamberlain never has a peak remotely GOAT-like.

Butch Van Breda Kolff was right, Wilt Chamberlain was wrong, and the inability for people to believe this killed Van Breda Kolff's career.

Bill Walton really was a better player than Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on a per minute basis in his prime before being taken down by injuries.

Kevin Garnett is no lower than 2nd greatest player drafted in the '90s, and I go back & forth on whether he was #1.
Jerry West was better at playing basketball than Kobe Bryant.

Bill Russell figured more out by himself about basketball strategy a half century ago than more than a few current NBA coaches have ever learned today.

Bill Russell's Celtics really never needed Bob Cousy.

Bill Sharman would fair better in today's NBA than Cousy.

There's a major divide between the top tier of BBIQ guys and the next tier down and it's due to the top tier being able to see their own physical body as just one of 5 such bodies on your team to be used however is advantageous to the team rather than see their job to make that physical body the star of the show.

I'd draft Steve Nash over Kobe Bryant.

I think the '06-07 Suns win the title if the NBA behaved reasonably after Robert Horry's body check of Nash.

I think that the NBA reaches '16-17's state of space & pace years earlier if the '06-07 Suns win that title and that the Suns might have gotten better after that instead of prematurely making drastic changes.

I think Nene has had the most impactful career of anyone in the 2002 draft.

I think people make too big a deal of Tracy McGrady.

I think Popovich is surprised at the culture he's created. He intended to ride out Duncan's career and retire, but once he gained confidence molding and remolding the team's offensive focus, that changed. I think he's accomplished things that he really didn't think was possible even a decade ago.

I don't think the Laker Chris Paul trade even gets considered for vetoing if it were any franchise, in any major sport, other than the Lakers.

I think that alphas have massive emotional effects on their team, and that if it isn't specifically empowering to coach and teammates, it is disempowering, and not to any small degree.

I think Russell Westbrook would have been unreal as an off-guard on offense slash a man defender, the position he largely played at UCLA. I think he'd more easily win titles if that was the role he played.

I think the potential value of off-guards is drastically underrated by most and thus unrealized in most cases.

I don't think that humans could really tell what was working and what wasn't in basketball without access to the scoreboard except in absolute blowouts.

I think that it's completely fine if offenses are a little overpowered right now.

[Mister_2K]

Paul George is a better two-way player than Kawhi Leonard.

[bondom34]

I don't think that humans could really tell what was working and what wasn't in basketball without access to the scoreboard except in absolute blowouts.

I disagree with a bunch of these (which I think is why I generally find myself in so many debates with you Doc), but wanted to highlight this as something I can't agree with enough.

I constantly see some arguing against the usage of statistics when at its heart, nobody can measure the score without a scoreboard. Just a dumb exercise but I'd challenge anyone to attend a game or watch on TV with the score blocked off and guess at the end. I don't think you'd be close to the right score and may not know who won other than by player's reactions.

[RSCD3_]

I rank gordon hayward as better than paul george this year.

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[RSCD3_]

Wow, this thread is really taking off again, and I guess I never posted before. Lemme see:

The major difference between Jordan and most inefficient volume scorers is talent not BBIQ.

If not for the single most important and insightful coaching move in history by Alex Hannum, Wilt Chamberlain never has a peak remotely GOAT-like.

Butch Van Breda Kolff was right, Wilt Chamberlain was wrong, and the inability for people to believe this killed Van Breda Kolff's career.

Bill Walton really was a better player than Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on a per minute basis in his prime before being taken down by injuries.

Kevin Garnett is no lower than 2nd greatest player drafted in the '90s, and I go back & forth on whether he was #1.
Jerry West was better at playing basketball than Kobe Bryant.

Bill Russell figured more out by himself about basketball strategy a half century ago than more than a few current NBA coaches have ever learned today.

Bill Russell's Celtics really never needed Bob Cousy.

Bill Sharman would fair better in today's NBA than Cousy.

There's a major divide between the top tier of BBIQ guys and the next tier down and it's due to the top tier being able to see their own physical body as just one of 5 such bodies on your team to be used however is advantageous to the team rather than see their job to make that physical body the star of the show.

I'd draft Steve Nash over Kobe Bryant.

I think the '06-07 Suns win the title if the NBA behaved reasonably after Robert Horry's body check of Nash.

I think that the NBA reaches '16-17's state of space & pace years earlier if the '06-07 Suns win that title and that the Suns might have gotten better after that instead of prematurely making drastic changes.

I think Nene has had the most impactful career of anyone in the 2002 draft.

I think people make too big a deal of Tracy McGrady.

I think Popovich is surprised at the culture he's created. He intended to ride out Duncan's career and retire, but once he gained confidence molding and remolding the team's offensive focus, that changed. I think he's accomplished things that he really didn't think was possible even a decade ago.

I don't think the Laker Chris Paul trade even gets considered for vetoing if it were any franchise, in any major sport, other than the Lakers.

I think that alphas have massive emotional effects on their team, and that if it isn't specifically empowering to coach and teammates, it is disempowering, and not to any small degree.

I think Russell Westbrook would have been unreal as an off-guard on offense slash a man defender, the position he largely played at UCLA. I think he'd more easily win titles if that was the role he played.

I think the potential value of off-guards is drastically underrated by most and thus unrealized in most cases.

I don't think that humans could really tell what was working and what wasn't in basketball without access to the scoreboard except in absolute blowouts.

I think that it's completely fine if offenses are a little overpowered right now.

So you're a Basketball reasons truther?

Wasnt the whole deal the league said they wouldnt interfere, and went back on it because they didnt think the return helped/couldnt sell it if paul was there? So they essentially went back on their word though if they never gave it they would have been fine since it was league owned at the time right?

If so I think it's shady for certain

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[ardee]

Garnett is an overrated defender because his rim protection wasn't up to par, and that middle linebacker stuff isn't really all it's cracked up to be. Top 10 all time but Russell, Robinson, Duncan, Hakeem, Mutombo and Ewing were better.

Elgin Baylor would be very good in today's game.

I actually like the 3 point heavy nature of today's game.

Kawhi wasn't a top 5 player before this year.

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[freypies]

I already have Curry in my top 25 all time (and very, very close to top 20).

DeRozan is better than Lowry nowadays.

[Xherdan 23]

I think on/off has its merits, so I'd somewhat disagree there. I think over a larger sample at least its rather useful.

I respectfully disagree.

This type of metric (on/off, +/-) is so overly simplistic that it makes for lazy number-gazing without asking why.

I mean there are literally FOUR other players on the court, not one, not two, not three. FOUR. There is so much variability regarding players and events on the court that the on/off metric is almost entirely useless.

A sport with two players, like doubles tennis or Olympic beach volleyball, maybe.

A 5-player sport, useless.

My biggest pet peeve is lazy number-gazing. You don't even have to watch a single game to number-gaze and spout opinions. The on/off stat enables lazy number-gazers to sound like advanced sexy statistical geniuses when they have absolutely no clue about basketball other than number-gazing. "IMPACT!" My God, what a super pet peeve.

And every post you make proves that you don't have to watch a single game OR look at numbers to spout opinions.

[GeneralManager]

I think on/off has its merits, so I'd somewhat disagree there. I think over a larger sample at least its rather useful.

I respectfully disagree.

This type of metric (on/off, +/-) is so overly simplistic that it makes for lazy number-gazing without asking why.

I mean there are literally FOUR other players on the court, not one, not two, not three. FOUR. There is so much variability regarding players and events on the court that the on/off metric is almost entirely useless.

A sport with two players, like doubles tennis or Olympic beach volleyball, maybe.

A 5-player sport, useless.

My biggest pet peeve is lazy number-gazing. You don't even have to watch a single game to number-gaze and spout opinions. The on/off stat enables lazy number-gazers to sound like advanced sexy statistical geniuses when they have absolutely no clue about basketball other than number-gazing. "IMPACT!" My God, what a super pet peeve.

And every post you make proves that you don't have to watch a single game OR look at numbers to spout opinions.

...says the 16 year old LeBron fan.

[mtron929]

I think people underrate the role fatigue plays in being clutch and overrate the role mental fortitude plays in being clutch. For example, I think the primary reason for Westbrook's 4th quarter meltdown during the Rockets series was fatigue. That is, he played so hard in the first 3 quarters that he just ran out of gas. It wasn't the nerves. It was mostly fatigue.

Along this line of reasoning, it is easier for guys like Kyrie to be clutch because he can kind of loaf around on defense and do not have to carry the burden of being the best player for the Cavs (due to Lebron James). Thus, he is relatively fresh when it comes to 4th quarters and can be "clutch". I think if Kyrie had to carry a team like the Thunder, he would suffer the same consequences. Similarly, if guys like Robert Horry and Derick Fisher were forced to play much of a big role carrying their teams, their ability to be clutch would be diminished as they would be much more fatigued in the 4th quarters.

[NO-KG-AI]

I think Shaq's ability to post up and create a bucket at will is overrated, and is a lower volume than people remember. Did a lot more on offensive rebounds and in transition than people are remembering.

Shawn Marion's defense is overrated.

The Spurs became more efficient the less they forced the ball to Duncan.




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[Xherdan 23]

I respectfully disagree.

This type of metric (on/off, +/-) is so overly simplistic that it makes for lazy number-gazing without asking why.

I mean there are literally FOUR other players on the court, not one, not two, not three. FOUR. There is so much variability regarding players and events on the court that the on/off metric is almost entirely useless.

A sport with two players, like doubles tennis or Olympic beach volleyball, maybe.

A 5-player sport, useless.

My biggest pet peeve is lazy number-gazing. You don't even have to watch a single game to number-gaze and spout opinions. The on/off stat enables lazy number-gazers to sound like advanced sexy statistical geniuses when they have absolutely no clue about basketball other than number-gazing. "IMPACT!" My God, what a super pet peeve.

And every post you make proves that you don't have to watch a single game OR look at numbers to spout opinions.

...says the 16 year old LeBron fan.

I'm 31 and I don't really like LeBron very much.

But you pathetic agenda dumbs down every topic on this board.

It's apparent you think shooting outside 3 feet is wholly irrelevant. Case in point, trex.

You should push back on these people more than pushing back on me...the overrating of LeBron is astonishing.

Distance: ‪3-10 / 10-16 / 16-23.75‬ / 23.75+

LeBron: 42.8% / 36.3% / 38.6% / 34%
Jordan: 50% / 49% / 45% / 33% (approximated using Kobe's data & overall percent difference between Kobe & Jordan).

Comp: -7% / -12.5% / -6.5% / +1%

Wow...just wow.

This is why you don't like numbers. You simply have no idea how math works.

"Tier 1" for me is Top 9.

These are ordered alphabetically because I do not want to spend my entire weekend justifying 1-9.

Alphabetical order:

Bird
Duncan
Hakeem
Jordan
Kareem
LeBron
Magic
Shaq
Wilt

This is your top 9.

Even if we ignore what LeBron does inside of 3 feet (and I'm not sure why you do this) please name the ones that are better shooters from outside of 3 feet than him.

Oh, and for once in your life use some evidence because you saying so doesn't mean anything.

I'll read your next reply and than add you to my ignore list. Not appropriate.

[Goudelock]

I meant more from like a team building way, like I'd rather have LeBron than Jordan. I just think nobody brings as much all-around two way impact as LeBron at his best. He's proven he's probably the greatest team-carrier of all time, just single handedly elevating teams and making something good out of crap. And the longevity of him doing that is becoming borderline hilarious, he's blowing past ATGs in longevity like they're jokes. Although I guess I did say prime for prime, so meh. I think Jordan is likely a better ceiling raiser, but LeBron isn't that far off imo given how well his off-ball game has developed since Miami and how well he's functioned in some of Cleveland's motion sets. And defensively I think at his absolute best his versatility just puts him a bit above Jordan on that end. Like for huge stretches in the finals, especially games 5-7, dude was playing GOAT tier defense and not just man defense but a one man wrecking crew of a team defender as well. Another scary thing about LeBron imo is that he could've been even better, like if he had been developed under a guy like Pop or Riley from the start, ****.

Oh and yea originally Milbuck. Had to change the username to honor the GOAT and future POTUS Malcolm Brogdon

Well-put, especially when it comes to the point about longevity. Honestly, I figured that he would've started his steep decline by now, but LeBron seems to have adapted very well and is now passing legends statistically left and right.

And the more I see of Jordan, the more i'm convinced that LeBron is just as good a player as MJ. Like you said, his defensive versatility is a huge point in LeBron's favor, as is his passing vision, his screening, and his rebounding. MJ was a better scorer, but it's not like LeBron is a scrub in this regard either.

And Malcolm Brogdon is proof that sometimes it's better to go after the 'low-upside' and polished senior rather than the high-upside and raw freshman.

[GeneralManager]

And every post you make proves that you don't have to watch a single game OR look at numbers to spout opinions.

...says the 16 year old LeBron fan.

I'm 31 and I don't really like LeBron very much.

But you pathetic agenda dumbs down every topic on this board.

It's apparent you think shooting outside 3 feet is wholly irrelevant. Case in point, trex.

You should push back on these people more than pushing back on me...the overrating of LeBron is astonishing.

Distance: ‪3-10 / 10-16 / 16-23.75‬ / 23.75+

LeBron: 42.8% / 36.3% / 38.6% / 34%
Jordan: 50% / 49% / 45% / 33% (approximated using Kobe's data & overall percent difference between Kobe & Jordan).

Comp: -7% / -12.5% / -6.5% / +1%

Wow...just wow.

This is why you don't like numbers. You simply have no idea how math works.

"Tier 1" for me is Top 9.

These are ordered alphabetically because I do not want to spend my entire weekend justifying 1-9.

Alphabetical order:

Bird
Duncan
Hakeem
Jordan
Kareem
LeBron
Magic
Shaq
Wilt

This is your top 9.

Even if we ignore what LeBron does inside of 3 feet (and I'm not sure why you do this) please name the ones that are better shooters from outside of 3 feet than him.

Oh, and for once in your life use some evidence because you saying so doesn't mean anything.

I'll read your next reply and than add you to my ignore list. Your posts are AIDS.

You behave like a petulant teenager and then expect a reply? Not happening.

I will reply to trex (because he was respectful about it), but there is no way in hell I'm replying to you.

Suffice it to say that LeBron has not separated himself from my Top 9 in any meaningful way. He may or may not be as low as 9th.

[Xherdan 23]

...says the 16 year old LeBron fan.

I'm 31 and I don't really like LeBron very much.

But you pathetic agenda dumbs down every topic on this board.

Distance: ‪3-10 / 10-16 / 16-23.75‬ / 23.75+

LeBron: 42.8% / 36.3% / 38.6% / 34%
Jordan: 50% / 49% / 45% / 33% (approximated using Kobe's data & overall percent difference between Kobe & Jordan).

Comp: -7% / -12.5% / -6.5% / +1%

Wow...just wow.

This is why you don't like numbers. You simply have no idea how math works.

"Tier 1" for me is Top 9.

These are ordered alphabetically because I do not want to spend my entire weekend justifying 1-9.

Alphabetical order:

Bird
Duncan
Hakeem
Jordan
Kareem
LeBron
Magic
Shaq
Wilt

This is your top 9.

Even if we ignore what LeBron does inside of 3 feet (and I'm not sure why you do this) please name the ones that are better shooters from outside of 3 feet than him.

Oh, and for once in your life use some evidence because you saying so doesn't mean anything.

I'll read your next reply and than add you to my ignore list. Your posts are AIDS.

You behave like a petulant teenager and then expect a reply? Not happening.

I will reply to tree (because he was respectful about it), but there is no way in hell I'm replying to you.

Suffice it to say that LeBron has not separated himself from my Top 9 in any meaningful way. He may or may not be as low as 9th.

I expected nothing else from you.
I guess I'll see your next post after you get banned again and start your next account. It's been fun

[GeneralManager]

I'm 31 and I don't really like LeBron very much.

But you pathetic agenda dumbs down every topic on this board.



This is why you don't like numbers. You simply have no idea how math works.



This is your top 9.

Even if we ignore what LeBron does inside of 3 feet (and I'm not sure why you do this) please name the ones that are better shooters from outside of 3 feet than him.

Oh, and for once in your life use some evidence because you saying so doesn't mean anything.

I'll read your next reply and than add you to my ignore list. Your posts are AIDS.

You behave like a petulant teenager and then expect a reply? Not happening.

I will reply to tree (because he was respectful about it), but there is no way in hell I'm replying to you.

Suffice it to say that LeBron has not separated himself from my Top 9 in any meaningful way. He may or may not be as low as 9th.

I expected nothing else from you.
I guess I'll see your next post after you get banned again and start your next account. It's been fun

And I expect nothing less than childlike petulance from you.

Opposing LeBron is ban worthy? If that is the case here (and this is my very first account here so I would not know), then I guess this really is the unpopular opinion thread?

You are one of the most childish posters on here, if anyone needs banned it is you.

Go ahead, make another AIDS joke. Pathetic. Based on your behavior, it is obvious, you really are 16 years old.