Oladipo, Ilyasova & Sabonis to Thunder for Ibaka

[Bergmaniac]

True, but he's shooting the same amount of shots this year as last season and has been way too passive offensively most of the time even when Westbrook is on the bench.

[SOUL]

True, but he's shooting the same amount of shots this year as last season and has been way too passive offensively most of the time even when Westbrook is on the bench.

Yeah, his percentages are up just because of natural progression and getting less attention, but I thought he would be better. He has a role in the NBA, I don't think he's found it yet though. WB is sort of his Kryptonite even if he looks slightly better there. Oladipo thrives on being the heart and soul and emotional leader of the team, which will always be impossible to be with WB as his teammate.

[Bensational]

True, but he's shooting the same amount of shots this year as last season and has been way too passive offensively most of the time even when Westbrook is on the bench.

Yeah, his percentages are up just because of natural progression and getting less attention, but I thought he would be better. He has a role in the NBA, I don't think he's found it yet though. WB is sort of his Kryptonite even if he looks slightly better there. Oladipo thrives on being the heart and soul and emotional leader of the team, which will always be impossible to be with WB as his teammate.

Oladipo isn't good enough to be that guy, though. I could see him as an Avery Bradley kind of SG next to another shooting/scoring PG, or as an Igoudala on a deeper team. The team I think he'd probably best fit is Memphis, although I'm sure the Spurs could make him look like a star if they got their mits on him.

[SOUL]

Oladipo isn't good enough to be that guy, though. I could see him as an Avery Bradley kind of SG next to another shooting/scoring PG, or as an Igoudala on a deeper team. The team I think he'd probably best fit is Memphis, although I'm sure the Spurs could make him look like a star if they got their mits on him.

Yeah I agree, but it will be growing pains until he figures that out. I don't think it's wise to sit a player don't and be like "you can't be X, but you can be this" because they will probably lose faith in whoever it is that told them that, but sometimes you gotta do things for the betterment of the team.

[Howard Mass]

It's nice to look back at our comments from this trade.

I still maintain the only thing that I did not like about the deal was giving up #11.

The Magic were not going to pay both Victor Oladipo and Evan Fournier and I felt they made the right call on who to keep. Fournier was also cheaper.

They should have gone with a 3 big rotation at 4 and 5 with Aaron Gordon, Nicola Vucevic and Ibaka.

Unfortunately, the decision was to move Gordon to SF and sign Bismack Biyombo to a big contract. This backfired badly.

The good news is they were able to get a good return for Ibaka that was not much of a downgrade and maybe even a better long-term fit in the cheaper Terrance Ross and a late first round pick in a deep draft rather than a late lottery pick in a bad one.

It was a failed experiment because of how this team was constructed and maybe Ibaka doesn't resign but they did not make off badly from the trade besides this bad season.

Another way of looking at this trade and the attempt to go big with the Biz signing: Inadvertent Retrospective Tanking!

We tried to zig when the league was zagging, and it flopped so miserably that we're getting a top 6-ish pick. We were definitely better after the trade, and that likely cost us a spot or two in draft odds. If we had been even a little better with Ibaka, we would likely have just drafted in the teens and either paid him a max or lost him this Summer.

So the Inadvertent Retrospective Tank probably worked out better for us!

This Summer we have: AG at the 4, a compatible wing on a decent contract in Ross, an early lottery pick (yet to be determined), pick # 25, and cap space. Almost all of that resulted indirectly from the initial trade because we sucked so bad going big. We got a high draft pick and a great salvage trade with Toronto who was pushing to compete when we cut Ibaka loose.

One thing is for sure.

This was a lost season but I do like having Ross and his cheaper contract than Oladipo. It is also nice to know that they are never going to try Aaron Gordon at SF again.

[Bensational]

Oladipo isn't good enough to be that guy, though. I could see him as an Avery Bradley kind of SG next to another shooting/scoring PG, or as an Igoudala on a deeper team. The team I think he'd probably best fit is Memphis, although I'm sure the Spurs could make him look like a star if they got their mits on him.

Yeah I agree, but it will be growing pains until he figures that out. I don't think it's wise to sit a player don't and be like "you can't be X, but you can be this" because they will probably lose faith in whoever it is that told them that, but sometimes you gotta do things for the betterment of the team.

I don't think you motivate anyone by telling them what they can't be. You just have to encourage them to focus on doing the things they can do well that help the team. It all depends on where a player is in their development and how much scope you see for that player to grow. That's why championship teams have so many veterans who've already gone through those paces and learned to control their ego by their late 20's, and are ready to do something for the team instead of trying to be the star.

[Xatticus]

Everyone looks like a bench player that plays with Westbrook because he does all the scoring, rebounding, passing and defending.

He has to because the rest of the roster is rather bad. Even OKC fans now admit this. Just go read their forum.

Meh, that argument "he has to" is silly when you know he played like that even in 2012,when his starting 5 was: him, Harden, Durant, Ibaka and Perkins. He still tried to outshine Durant in every game.

Yeah. His eFG was .476. OKC's eFG was .500. He took 27% of all OKC shots this year. The team eFG was .509 for all shots taken by OKC players other than Westbrook. He's obviously an important player to their offense, but they would be a better offensive team if he took a smaller share of the team's shots.

This has been consistently true ever since Westbrook joined the team. The disparity was even larger before Durant bolted. OKC fans are enamored with Westbrook because he signed his extension after Durant left for Golden St., so he receives very little blame for anything that goes wrong.

[BadMofoPimp]

He has to because the rest of the roster is rather bad. Even OKC fans now admit this. Just go read their forum.

Meh, that argument "he has to" is silly when you know he played like that even in 2012,when his starting 5 was: him, Harden, Durant, Ibaka and Perkins. He still tried to outshine Durant in every game.

Yeah. His eFG was .476. OKC's eFG was .500. He took 27% of all OKC shots this year. The team eFG was .509 for all shots taken by OKC players other than Westbrook. He's obviously an important player to their offense, but they would be a better offensive team if he took a smaller share of the team's shots.

This has been consistently true ever since Westbrook joined the team. The disparity was even larger before Durant bolted. OKC fans are enamored with Westbrook because he signed his extension after Durant left for Golden St., so he receives very little blame for anything that goes wrong.

He reminds me of Michael Jordan in his early years. All this usage will payoff down the road when he has a team around him. It wasn't like OKC was going to win a ship this year regardless.

[Bergmaniac]

True, but he's shooting the same amount of shots this year as last season and has been way too passive offensively most of the time even when Westbrook is on the bench.

Yeah, his percentages are up just because of natural progression and getting less attention, but I thought he would be better. He has a role in the NBA, I don't think he's found it yet though. WB is sort of his Kryptonite even if he looks slightly better there. Oladipo thrives on being the heart and soul and emotional leader of the team, which will always be impossible to be with WB as his teammate.

Oladipo will look better if his team had more ballhandlers and scorers so he could focus mostly on defense and finishing plays. When he is asked to create for others or carry a poor offensive group he just doesn't have it in him and at this point I doubt he'd ever will, his improvement since his second season has been minimal in these areas. We tried to make him a Westbrook type player and it didn't work out at all. His inability to draw fouls is really holding him back offensively, that's how star perimeter players get theirs even on bad shooting nights. He shot 2.3 Fts per game this season which is just embarrassing for a guy with his athleticism.

[pepe1991]

Meh, that argument "he has to" is silly when you know he played like that even in 2012,when his starting 5 was: him, Harden, Durant, Ibaka and Perkins. He still tried to outshine Durant in every game.

Yeah. His eFG was .476. OKC's eFG was .500. He took 27% of all OKC shots this year. The team eFG was .509 for all shots taken by OKC players other than Westbrook. He's obviously an important player to their offense, but they would be a better offensive team if he took a smaller share of the team's shots.

This has been consistently true ever since Westbrook joined the team. The disparity was even larger before Durant bolted. OKC fans are enamored with Westbrook because he signed his extension after Durant left for Golden St., so he receives very little blame for anything that goes wrong.

He reminds me of Michael Jordan in his early years. All this usage will payoff down the road when he has a team around him. It wasn't like OKC was going to win a ship this year regardless.

Jordan was always uber effective. He had higher TS in rookie year than Westbrook ever (and it's not even close actually ).
Jordan in his first years had TS of around 60%, around 54% eFG. Westbrook right now has eFG of 47,6%, TS of 55%.

Westbrook isn't even that young any more, turns 29 on start of next season. I will be shocked if he ever wins championship being go to guy. Hell , i'll be suprised if he ever passes second round as a go to guy.

[BadMofoPimp]

Yeah. His eFG was .476. OKC's eFG was .500. He took 27% of all OKC shots this year. The team eFG was .509 for all shots taken by OKC players other than Westbrook. He's obviously an important player to their offense, but they would be a better offensive team if he took a smaller share of the team's shots.

This has been consistently true ever since Westbrook joined the team. The disparity was even larger before Durant bolted. OKC fans are enamored with Westbrook because he signed his extension after Durant left for Golden St., so he receives very little blame for anything that goes wrong.

He reminds me of Michael Jordan in his early years. All this usage will payoff down the road when he has a team around him. It wasn't like OKC was going to win a ship this year regardless.

Jordan was always uber effective. He had higher TS in rookie year than Westbrook ever (and it's not even close actually ).
Jordan in his first years had TS of around 60%, around 54% eFG. Westbrook right now has eFG of 47,6%, TS of 55%.

Westbrook isn't even that young any more, turns 29 on start of next season. I will be shocked if he ever wins championship being go to guy. Hell , i'll be suprised if he ever passes second round as a go to guy.

Seems like OKC is like the Magic with TMAC.

[PennytoShaq]

He has to because the rest of the roster is rather bad. Even OKC fans now admit this. Just go read their forum.

Meh, that argument "he has to" is silly when you know he played like that even in 2012,when his starting 5 was: him, Harden, Durant, Ibaka and Perkins. He still tried to outshine Durant in every game.

Yeah. His eFG was .476. OKC's eFG was .500. He took 27% of all OKC shots this year. The team eFG was .509 for all shots taken by OKC players other than Westbrook. He's obviously an important player to their offense, but they would be a better offensive team if he took a smaller share of the team's shots.

This has been consistently true ever since Westbrook joined the team. The disparity was even larger before Durant bolted. OKC fans are enamored with Westbrook because he signed his extension after Durant left for Golden St., so he receives very little blame for anything that goes wrong.

Oladipo still is inconsistent as a shooter. His release is all over the place. He is horrible at finishing at the rim - just doesn't have it. Is a feast or famine defender. This is his game. It will not change regardless if Westbrook is on the floor or not.

In fact with Westbrook off the floor, his numbers went down pretty significantly. So I don't buy for a second that Westbrook is holding him back in any way. Is Westbrook hurting the team by playing way too much hero ball? Probably, but that is another debate.

[pepe1991]

He reminds me of Michael Jordan in his early years. All this usage will payoff down the road when he has a team around him. It wasn't like OKC was going to win a ship this year regardless.

Jordan was always uber effective. He had higher TS in rookie year than Westbrook ever (and it's not even close actually ).
Jordan in his first years had TS of around 60%, around 54% eFG. Westbrook right now has eFG of 47,6%, TS of 55%.

Westbrook isn't even that young any more, turns 29 on start of next season. I will be shocked if he ever wins championship being go to guy. Hell , i'll be suprised if he ever passes second round as a go to guy.

Seems like OKC is like the Magic with TMAC.

That mantra that he has no help is overblown.
Looking at production of his teammates in playoffs:
Adams 65% FG but only 28 shots in whole series
Grant 61% FG but only 31 shot taken
McDermott 50% FG, 18 FGA

Russell Westbrook...152 FGA, 38,8% FG. Kanter was medicore but didn't get much shots, Oladipo was horrible tho.
Maybe worst data of thier team is fact that Andre Roberson was 3-21 from free trow line and that Oladipo only got 6 free trows.
But again, that's just how OKC plays, nobody can't do anything with a ball when Westbrook keeps ball for himself 90% of a time.

In same time Houston:
Ariza- awful series
Ryno-awful series
Gordon was average
Beverley was great but he plays off Harden. Nene can't create for himself ,most of his points are assisted . So only difference between Houston and OKC is Lou Williams. OKC should focus him on defense and call few isolations against him. But they never did it. Why? Don't know.

[BadMofoPimp]

Jordan was always uber effective. He had higher TS in rookie year than Westbrook ever (and it's not even close actually ).
Jordan in his first years had TS of around 60%, around 54% eFG. Westbrook right now has eFG of 47,6%, TS of 55%.

Westbrook isn't even that young any more, turns 29 on start of next season. I will be shocked if he ever wins championship being go to guy. Hell , i'll be suprised if he ever passes second round as a go to guy.

Seems like OKC is like the Magic with TMAC.

That mantra that he has no help is overblown.
Looking at production of his teammates in playoffs:
Adams 65% FG but only 28 shots in whole series
Grant 61% FG but only 31 shot taken
McDermott 50% FG, 18 FGA

Russell Westbrook...152 FGA, 38,8% FG. Kanter was medicore but didn't get much shots, Oladipo was horrible tho.
Maybe worst data of thier team is fact that Andre Roberson was 3-21 from free trow line and that Oladipo only got 6 free trows.
But again, that's just how OKC plays, nobody can't do anything with a ball when Westbrook keeps ball for himself 90% of a time.

In same time Houston:
Ariza- awful series
Ryno-awful series
Gordon was average
Beverley was great but he plays off Harden. Nene can't create for himself ,most of his points are assisted . So only difference between Houston and OKC is Lou Williams. OKC should focus him on defense and call few isolations against him. But they never did it. Why? Don't know.

I think OKC GM just surrounded Westbrook mainly with Defensive minded players outside of Kanter. Thus, they neutralized Ryno, Gordon and Ariza. Regardless, I thought it was a helluva series and enjoyed the hell out of watching it.

And, I have NOTHING bad to say about Westbrook and would give anything to have him on our team.

So, haters can hate because they are just jealous that we have nothing close to as entertaining as he is and does for his team. Otherwise, they would be bottom feeders.

[pepe1991]

Seems like OKC is like the Magic with TMAC.

That mantra that he has no help is overblown.
Looking at production of his teammates in playoffs:
Adams 65% FG but only 28 shots in whole series
Grant 61% FG but only 31 shot taken
McDermott 50% FG, 18 FGA

Russell Westbrook...152 FGA, 38,8% FG. Kanter was medicore but didn't get much shots, Oladipo was horrible tho.
Maybe worst data of thier team is fact that Andre Roberson was 3-21 from free trow line and that Oladipo only got 6 free trows.
But again, that's just how OKC plays, nobody can't do anything with a ball when Westbrook keeps ball for himself 90% of a time.

In same time Houston:
Ariza- awful series
Ryno-awful series
Gordon was average
Beverley was great but he plays off Harden. Nene can't create for himself ,most of his points are assisted . So only difference between Houston and OKC is Lou Williams. OKC should focus him on defense and call few isolations against him. But they never did it. Why? Don't know.

I think OKC GM just surrounded Westbrook mainly with Defensive minded players outside of Kanter. Thus, they neutralized Ryno, Gordon and Ariza. Regardless, I thought it was a helluva series and enjoyed the hell out of watching it.

And, I have NOTHING bad to say about Westbrook and would give anything to have him on our team.

So, haters can hate because they are just jealous that we have nothing close to as entertaining as he is and does for his team. Otherwise, they would be bottom feeders.

Amazing talent for sure, i don't think he will ever win anything playing this style of basketball ,but guy is fun to watch for sure.

[tiderulz]

Jordan was always uber effective. He had higher TS in rookie year than Westbrook ever (and it's not even close actually ).
Jordan in his first years had TS of around 60%, around 54% eFG. Westbrook right now has eFG of 47,6%, TS of 55%.

Westbrook isn't even that young any more, turns 29 on start of next season. I will be shocked if he ever wins championship being go to guy. Hell , i'll be suprised if he ever passes second round as a go to guy.

Seems like OKC is like the Magic with TMAC.

That mantra that he has no help is overblown.
Looking at production of his teammates in playoffs:
Adams 65% FG but only 28 shots in whole series
Grant 61% FG but only 31 shot taken
McDermott 50% FG, 18 FGA

Russell Westbrook...152 FGA, 38,8% FG. Kanter was medicore but didn't get much shots, Oladipo was horrible tho.
Maybe worst data of thier team is fact that Andre Roberson was 3-21 from free trow line and that Oladipo only got 6 free trows.
But again, that's just how OKC plays, nobody can't do anything with a ball when Westbrook keeps ball for himself 90% of a time.

In same time Houston:
Ariza- awful series
Ryno-awful series
Gordon was average
Beverley was great but he plays off Harden. Nene can't create for himself ,most of his points are assisted . So only difference between Houston and OKC is Lou Williams. OKC should focus him on defense and call few isolations against him. But they never did it. Why? Don't know.

difference is, even with bad shots, Houston had people that could create for themselves and others. Gordon, Lou, Harden. When Westbrook wasnt on the court or didnt have the ball, OKC could not create any offense for themselves.

[pepe1991]

Seems like OKC is like the Magic with TMAC.

That mantra that he has no help is overblown.
Looking at production of his teammates in playoffs:
Adams 65% FG but only 28 shots in whole series
Grant 61% FG but only 31 shot taken
McDermott 50% FG, 18 FGA

Russell Westbrook...152 FGA, 38,8% FG. Kanter was medicore but didn't get much shots, Oladipo was horrible tho.
Maybe worst data of thier team is fact that Andre Roberson was 3-21 from free trow line and that Oladipo only got 6 free trows.
But again, that's just how OKC plays, nobody can't do anything with a ball when Westbrook keeps ball for himself 90% of a time.

In same time Houston:
Ariza- awful series
Ryno-awful series
Gordon was average
Beverley was great but he plays off Harden. Nene can't create for himself ,most of his points are assisted . So only difference between Houston and OKC is Lou Williams. OKC should focus him on defense and call few isolations against him. But they never did it. Why? Don't know.

difference is, even with bad shots, Houston had people that could create for themselves and others. Gordon, Lou, Harden. When Westbrook wasnt on the court or didnt have the ball, OKC could not create any offense for themselves.

I expect Spurs to beat Rockets in 5 games . Kind a wild prediction but i don't find Rockets that great. They can shoot well at home but they don't value possessions but aginst OKC it didn't matter because Westbrook is definition of player who trows away possessions.