Comparing Nuggets to Jazz

[NuggetsWY]

Interesting article
http://www.denverstiffs.com/2017/4/24/15404496/the-denver-nuggets-could-learn-a-thing-or-two-from-the-utah-jazz

[The Rebel]

I'm sorry but glossing over the fact that the Jazz are the only major sports franchise in the market while the Nuggets are in an only slightly larger metro area but have all 4 major sports cities just irritates me. Regardless of how many try to minimize it, that is a huge factor in the draw for the Nuggets, and is one of the major issues that has caused the Nuggets low attendance over the years.

I will also say that I do not believe that selling the jersey advertising rights to a charity is going to make that big of a deal on what sports team someone decides to follow. I do not see young kids through young adults caring that much and that is where the fan base is in trouble.

The biggest issue for the Nuggets is the lost 90s, people who grew up around Denver that are now about 30-45 years old should be the Nuggets biggest fan base, but when they were kids and choosing the teams and sports to follow in the 90s, the Nuggets were a running joke. People openly laughed at you when you told them you were a Nuggets fan, and this franchise has done nothing to reach out to those people and change the image. Even with the Karl years many local basketball fans do not give the franchise credit, that credit goes to Karl and a lesser extent Melo. To change that they need to have more continued success, which is one reason that this rebuild cannot get screwed up as I fear it will kill NBA basketball in Denver long term if they cannot figure out how to get fans back in the seats. The Jazz on the other hand had 23 years of success before their 6 year rebuild, the Nuggets do not have that luxury.

I will also say that the Dleague team while being good for some player development it is not that important to building a fan base, go look at the attendance numbers for D league teams, only hard core basketball fans care about the D league. I would like to see the Nuggets get a D league team especially with the new roster spots, but am not even trying to fool myself into believing that is going to help attendance nor popularity of the franchise anytime soon.

also sorry but changing the jerseys is not going to bring fans back, it is just not something the casual fan cares about.

Melo forcing his way to NY, Iggy leaving the way he did, and believe it or not the way they cut and abandoned Chris Andersen hurt this team and the attendance more than I think any of us would like to admit. No fan base likes to have their stars leave their city, but when it happens twice in 3 years and both times it is reported that they did not like the Denver market that is going to turn a lot of people off in that market. Birdman was a hero to many of the young kids, if the charges had been proven true than it was a good thing to do what they did, but they should have researched more about it, as the guy loved the Nuggets and when the charges proved untrue than how do we as parents explain that to our young kids?


I believe the biggest thing that the Nuggets need to do is build a contender around young likeable guys like Murray, Jokic, and Harris. Reach out to the community, get this guys involved more in the local community, but more than anything they have to build a team around likable guys that have a good chance to win on a nightly basis and do damage in the playoffs.

[MHZ]

I agree.

I know everybody looks for really quick or easy answers - I hear Adam Mares or others (who I like) on podcasts infer that the fans in Denver are just somehow "not good fans" like it's a common cold they need to get over. It's a very transplant heavy population, and that's only getting more so the case. You don't get transplants from LA to become passionate Nuggets fans because you yell at them on a podcast. The organization needs to cater to the market they're in, but they don't.

I think the Nuggets getting lost in the mix or the Denver sports market is a big part of it, certainly. All of the one team in town NBA teams do really well with attendance. Sacramento is the worst run organization in the NBA, and they're middle of the pack in attendance. That's not because of uniforms. It's because the Kings are Sacramento, just like the Jazz (please change the effing name) are SLC. Look at college football. Why do SEC teams crank out attendance at rates that doesn't happen in most of these pro sports towns? It's not difficult. Those teams are those cities and, in many cases, states.

I think just as big a part of it is the Nuggets getting lost in the mix of the Kroenke family ownership portfolio just like they do Denver sports. If you're a own team owner, that's your baby. The Nuggets are one of many for the Kroenkes in and out of Denver, and it's pretty clear they're willing to make money on the team (due mostly to the league success) and put their efforts elsewhere in terms of investment.

Remove the Broncos, and I'd content the Nuggets still are not really even close to the Rockies level in town. The Rockies have been phenomenal about making the in-stadium experience an event you can enjoy whether you're a baseball head or not, whether you're a Rockies fan or not, and frankly, whether they're a winning team or not. They have a major advantage of being during the summer when no other team is playing for most of their season, and also getting to take advantage of phenomenal Colorado weather. However, I still get weekly emails from the Rockies with awesome ticket deals for the following weeks, promos that are upcoming, etc. They're really aggressive in getting people into Coors Field. The Nuggets are not. Plain and simple.

[U hova]

i was hoping the article would be a bit more basketball related.

[SoCalNuggsFan]

When I moved here it was pretty jarring to go to like a Kohls or target and see a whole wall of broncos and Rockies stuff, then 1 or 2 nuggets hats in the very corner.

[RRFB]

Denver is just an insanely competitive market right now. You have to remember that the Nuggets aren't just competing with the Broncos, Rockies, Avs, etc. They're also competing with the ski resorts, the national parks, Red Rocks, the beer gardens, and everything else that makes Denver such an attractive place to live. I'd say 90% of the time I meet someone new here, they're a transplant, and most of those people already have allegiances to other sports teams. It's tough to get those transplants to choose a Nuggets game over a day of skiing or mountain biking when that's likely a main reason they chose to move here. It's even more challenging when the Nuggets have such a terrible reputation around town. SLC and some of the other NBA cities might have that problem to an extent, but not to the level that we do here. Until the next generation of homegrown Denverites grows up, it's going to be difficult to sell tickets for a bad team.

I will say that I had season tickets this year and the crowds got significantly better for that last third of the season. It's hard to say how much of that is due to the Broncos season ending and the Avs being the worst team in hockey, but I think Jokic's emergence as a star and the national buzz he generated had a lot to do with it too. But in the end, the Nuggets do a terrible job of marketing and promoting the team and that's really hard to overcome without a winning product on the floor.

[NuggetsWY]

Agree with most of what everyone is saying. Denver is NOT Utah or Portland or OKC. The issues are different. There is more competition for the sports dollars. On the other hand, there are more sports dollars (and maybe enough). But the Nuggets fans are NOT going to show up in numbers until the team is a winner for a few years. However, some prudent PR would help. IMO the Nuggets just don't get the concept of community relations - maybe because the Broncos and even the Rockies, just don't need to be good at PR.

Yeah, new jerseys and such won't help here. But the attitude of community involvement would help. D-league won't help attendance or sales but it can help in development of players and fans would see that - it might take a while though. My biggest hope was in Ujiri, at least in recent years. I thought we were headed somewhere. It didn't go as well as expected, but who knows what happens if he stays?

I was never a Melo fan. My favorite years included some or all of: Dunn, Issel, English, Natt, Lever - so it's been too long for me.

[MHZ]

Lots of good stuff. It mostly goes back to my original point about the ownership having a million franchises they own. This is just one on a balance sheet of many, and because of the league revenue sharing, it's profitable. No reason to get scrappy.

If they gave a crap, they'd be adjusting to the market they're in, maybe just a tad.

I think they really need to sell going to a Nuggets game and the entire experience around it more than just "support the Nuggets!" If the experience is worth your money, you're less tied to the ups and downs of the team. The market is young, lots of people from out of town, so why not sell a fun experience to them instead of acting like they should care about a team they have no allegiance to other than living in that town now?

Sure, you're going to have more out-of-town fans than a Boston or New York, but that's the reality of your market. Embrace it. Get some word of mouth going that the arena experience is fun (it's pretty bland outside of a great mascot) and the team is fun (they were this year and will continue to be). The allegiance to the Nuggets grows from there.

Everybody laughs at the Rooftop bar at Coors Field, but it's packed every game. The Rockies suck most every year and they sell just fine.

Embrace the local beer culture? Local food? Market toward your young Denver population instead of exclusively families in the 'burbs? Create engaging reasons to be in the arena before the game? Giveaways like shirts and bobbleheads and stuff have people wearing Nuggets stuff, or putting Nuggets stuff on their desk at work. Instead, we get thunder sticks.

[Riko]

I agree with one thing in that article: wins helps to sell tickets.
Utah improve a 40-42 squad adding veterans (JJ, Diaw, G.Hill) during last summer and Denver's management should do the same thing (Nene, Livingston/Mills+ a max contract Porter or Ibaka).

[skywalker33]

Utah had already incorporated their youth into their starting rotation with the exception of Exum, who was coming back from injury. I still think we have one more season of building before we make those kind of moves, too many teams just want to move too fast IMO

[Riko]

too many teams just want to move too fast IMO

I think the exact opposite: too many teams move too slow.
Loses are pretty addicted in NBA, many team despite all the talents they adds during the draft or in the FA can't get out of the lottery position (Minnesota 10-11 years w/o PO, Sacramento, Philadelphia, New York, Detroit, Orlando, ecc..) because right now they have a losing culture after all the past years spent with losing records.
IMO, wins lead to more wins and better attendence, loses lead to a negative spiral which is hard to get out.

[Nuggets_Talk]

I'm sorry but glossing over the fact that the Jazz are the only major sports franchise in the market while the Nuggets are in an only slightly larger metro area but have all 4 major sports cities just irritates me. Regardless of how many try to minimize it, that is a huge factor in the draw for the Nuggets, and is one of the major issues that has caused the Nuggets low attendance over the years.

well said, specifically ^^

I am never impressed by fan bases in portland, utah, sacramento, san antonio, okc, etc...

there is literally nothing else going on there. no other teams at all. some dont even have decent college athletics. of course their fans are going to be more loyal. there is no other options.

however, I definitely look forward to new branding (hopefully soon). new jerseys, logo and colors. ours are so outdated. I think, other than the historic logos (celtics, bulls, lakers) ours are probably the oldest.

and it will also help when the nuggets get some real promoting and advertising. they need to also develop the area outside the PC (which I believe they are in plans to do so?). the kroenkes almost treat the nuggets as just another account in their portfolio. they need to do more to bring fans in.

and it may be stupid to say but it bugs me that when we did make the playoffs, we never did the t shirt thing.

[Nuggets_Talk]

I agree.

I know everybody looks for really quick or easy answers - I hear Adam Mares or others (who I like) on podcasts infer that the fans in Denver are just somehow "not good fans" like it's a common cold they need to get over. It's a very transplant heavy population, and that's only getting more so the case. You don't get transplants from LA to become passionate Nuggets fans because you yell at them on a podcast. The organization needs to cater to the market they're in, but they don't.

I think the Nuggets getting lost in the mix or the Denver sports market is a big part of it, certainly. All of the one team in town NBA teams do really well with attendance. Sacramento is the worst run organization in the NBA, and they're middle of the pack in attendance. That's not because of uniforms. It's because the Kings are Sacramento, just like the Jazz (please change the effing name) are SLC. Look at college football. Why do SEC teams crank out attendance at rates that doesn't happen in most of these pro sports towns? It's not difficult. Those teams are those cities and, in many cases, states.

I think just as big a part of it is the Nuggets getting lost in the mix of the Kroenke family ownership portfolio just like they do Denver sports. If you're a own team owner, that's your baby. The Nuggets are one of many for the Kroenkes in and out of Denver, and it's pretty clear they're willing to make money on the team (due mostly to the league success) and put their efforts elsewhere in terms of investment.

Remove the Broncos, and I'd content the Nuggets still are not really even close to the Rockies level in town. The Rockies have been phenomenal about making the in-stadium experience an event you can enjoy whether you're a baseball head or not, whether you're a Rockies fan or not, and frankly, whether they're a winning team or not. They have a major advantage of being during the summer when no other team is playing for most of their season, and also getting to take advantage of phenomenal Colorado weather. However, I still get weekly emails from the Rockies with awesome ticket deals for the following weeks, promos that are upcoming, etc. They're really aggressive in getting people into Coors Field. The Nuggets are not. Plain and simple.

I dont live in colorado but that last paragraph sounds spot on.

why dont the nuggets do more to get fans in the door. our ticket prices should be bottom 5 in the league (are they?)

[NuggetsWY]

why dont the nuggets do more to get fans in the door. our ticket prices should be bottom 5 in the league (are they?)

This website says Denver's tickets are 8th highest (but we ranked 30th in attendance).
https://www.vividseats.com/blog/nba-ticket-prices

[Nuggets_Talk]

why dont the nuggets do more to get fans in the door. our ticket prices should be bottom 5 in the league (are they?)

This website says Denver's tickets are 8th highest (but we ranked 30th in attendance).
https://www.vividseats.com/blog/nba-ticket-prices

This is just wrong. They need to fix this. Bring the fans back.

[NuggetsWY]

why dont the nuggets do more to get fans in the door. our ticket prices should be bottom 5 in the league (are they?)

This website says Denver's tickets are 8th highest (but we ranked 30th in attendance).
https://www.vividseats.com/blog/nba-ticket-prices

This is just wrong. They need to fix this. Bring the fans back.

I've lived in many cities. I've watched NHL, NFL, and NBA. Some franchises know how to draw fans even with a bad team. Some do not. The Nuggets seem to be one of the best at not drawing fans. They make no effort, that is, no effort that seems apparant.