All Things 2017 Draft

[ryaningf]

In the past 25+ years, how many teams have won a championship with a transcendent passer as a top-3 player? I'm counting 0.

How many have even made the Finals? Anybody other than Kidd's Nets?

Lebron.

Do you think Ball will be as good as Lebron as a professional?

No, because Lebron is so otherwordly as an athlete.

But I've never compared Lonzo to Lebron, I've only compared him to Magic and Bird and I think he compares favorably both athletically and defensively with those 2.

[aim2please]

Don't want to open a new thread so I'll post it here. It seems Woj and some of his Vertical crew will join ESPN after the draft. Now that Chad Ford is gone, I think there's a good chance draft express guys will follow him, which is great IMO.

It would be cool to have guys who actually watch international and college hoop to cover the draft for such a major player like ESPN.

https://www.recode.net/2017/5/1/15503674/espn-sports-adrian-wojnarowski-woj-yahoo

Unfortunately, ESPN will ruin him and and his crew by turning them into caricatures of their former selves.

Woj has been slipping recently. All he was good for really is the Vert's draft day show. He's not a very good writer and you just know that ESPN will ruin the show by getting Michael Smith or Sage Steele to host.

Not really anything to get excited about honestly.

I'm a little bit more optimistic than you guys. I think Woj is big enough of a brand that he can demand certain things, like having his guys (maybe Mannix) do the show with him. Free agency show with him breaking stuff live instead of tweeting would be cool IMO.

But more than anything, having draft express guys giving insight on the draft night show is my biggest hope. I love watching the draft but ESPN's coverage last couple of years has been a joke. They want personalities, which is fine, but you need substance. Jalen Rose comparing a guy drafted 17th with a multiple all star is my personal favorite.

[Wes-J]

Lebron.

Do you think Ball will be as good as Lebron as a professional?

No, because Lebron is so otherwordly as an athlete.

But I've never compared Lonzo to Lebron, I've only compared him to Magic and Bird and I think he compares favorably both athletically and defensively with those 2.

Idk man. Yah I believe the skills are real although I don't rate him with those greats, not a chance. Unfortunately Lonzo and Lavar are a package deal so I can see more bad than good in a situation like that.

[Fencer reregistered]

Yes, Ball is a transcendent passer. He is on the level of a Wall, Kidd, Nash, CP3 type of passer.

He will have struggles defensively but he is a smart positional defender, reads defenses well like Rondo does to pick off passes, and has enough size that you can hide him on spot-up SGs or SFs.

In the past 25+ years, how many teams have won a championship with a transcendent passer as a top-3 player? I'm counting 0.

How many have even made the Finals? Anybody other than Kidd's Nets?

Lebron.

That's a fair challenge. But like Bird, Lebron would be an elite player even without the passing.

[London2Boston]

Yes, Ball is a transcendent passer. He is on the level of a Wall, Kidd, Nash, CP3 type of passer.

He will have struggles defensively but he is a smart positional defender, reads defenses well like Rondo does to pick off passes, and has enough size that you can hide him on spot-up SGs or SFs.

In the past 25+ years, how many teams have won a championship with a transcendent passer as a top-3 player? I'm counting 0.

How many have even made the Finals? Anybody other than Kidd's Nets?

Just last year? or any year Lebron wins the title so 2013 and 2012 too. Dallas Mavs and Jason Kidd in 2011...it's not the ultimate skill, but it's a damn good one and one that is pretty much the most certain to translate to the pros. Let's not act like it's the only thing Lonzo Ball has too.

[DarkAzcura]

Yes, Ball is a transcendent passer. He is on the level of a Wall, Kidd, Nash, CP3 type of passer.

He will have struggles defensively but he is a smart positional defender, reads defenses well like Rondo does to pick off passes, and has enough size that you can hide him on spot-up SGs or SFs.

In the past 25+ years, how many teams have won a championship with a transcendent passer as a top-3 player? I'm counting 0.

How many have even made the Finals? Anybody other than Kidd's Nets?

Just last year? or any year Lebron wins the title so 2013 and 2012 too. Dallas Mavs and Jason Kidd in 2011...it's not the ultimate skill, but it's a damn good one and one that is pretty much the most certain to translate to the pros. Let's not act like it's the only thing Lonzo Ball has too.

The question should been when was the last time a transcendent passer won when it was their best and truly only elite skill while also being one of the best players on their team. Lebron is an elite scorer and great defender. Kidd wasn't close to his prime when the Mavs won, and they won mostly because of Dirk, Terry, Barea, Chandler, and Marion. The last time was really Magic.

I don't think his point was that transcendent passers can't win. Of course they can. They just aren't a necessary ingredient to contending like some other things (like having a wing scorer who can isolate..), and it seems like using a big chunk of your cap space for elite passers doesn't really help move the needle in the end compared to other vital skill areas.

I'll take elite scoring or elite defensive players who know how to fit into an offensive system before I take an elite passer or elite rebounder. Passing and rebounding are two skill areas that can be made up for through teamwork. Scoring and pure defense (especially scoring) is much harder to make up for with teamwork.

I do want to say while I don't value elite passing a ton, it is pretty beautiful to watch when one player is that good at it. If Durant had come to the Celtics, I'd probably be way more inclined to say the Celtics should pick up Ball. My number 1 priority for this team is to add more scorers.

[rochrist]

Let them say no. Doesn't hurt to ask.

Parish equivalent would be, like, Detroit rolls 3 and packages it with Drummond to get Fultz.

Drummond isn't a tenth of the player Parish was.

Parish was a 20-10 guy with a bad reputation, but not Demarcus Cousins bad. I think Drummond doesn't have any low-post talent approaching Parish's, but he's a dominant rebounder and potentially dominant defensive player whose stock has diminished partly because of forces beyond his control.

Who shoots 38 percent FTs. Also, Parish didn't have a bad rep particularly. Parish was an elite defender, clutch rebounder, who could play inside or outside. He ended up playing more games in the NBA that any player in history and he's in the Hall of Fame and named to the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History. Bill Walton called him the best shooting big man of all time.

Andre Drummond? Phhht.

[sam_I_am]

Just watched a Luka Doncik highlight video. Hard to believe he can play like that at his age. Built like Dirk and Durant but his passing and hard drives to the rim reminds me more of Larry Bird. There are a lot of good looking players in 2018 but I really hope we get this guy - looks like a perfect fit for Brad's system.

[165bows]

Apparently Boston is on the list of primo markets for shoe deals, according to this article.

As the spring unfolds and formal shoe-deal meetings begin to take place, two key dates are the league’s draft lottery on May 16 and the NBA draft. Brands will typically wait until the lottery order is set, so that large-market teams such as the Lakers and Knicks have their draft slots determined. (If their selection falls outside of the top three, the Lakers would lose their pick to Philadelphia.)

Once the draft order is set, brands will look to sign players before the draft, with bonus language often included in contracts should a player be selected by a “priority market” or “featured team.” A “$150,000 kicker” can be included for lottery picks that land in key markets such as Los Angeles, New York, Boston, Chicago or Philadelphia, or on competitive teams that are “a playoff lock for the next four years,” such as the Houston Rockets, a brand source told The Vertical. An NBA Rookie of the Year bonus can also be added, with a “$250,000 kicker” common for incoming players.

https://sports.yahoo.com/news/inside-lonzo-balls-pursuit-unprecedented-shoe-deal-161401523.html

[MrClass]

Read on Twitter

lol at "NOT SO ATHLETIC"

[bucknersrevenge]

Read on Twitter

lol at "NOT SO ATHLETIC"

Seriously. He took off from pretty far. Used that long wingspan.

[Homerclease]

Read on Twitter

lol at "NOT SO ATHLETIC"

Seriously. He took off from pretty far. Used that long wingspan.

Kid was born to score 20ppg in the association. I'd give him the keys to the bench unit right out of the gate and play Smart off the ball

[bucknersrevenge]

Read on Twitter

lol at "NOT SO ATHLETIC"

Seriously. He took off from pretty far. Used that long wingspan.

Kid was born to score 20ppg in the association. I'd give him the keys to the bench unit right out of the gate and play Smart off the ball

Oh without question.

[sam_I_am]

Lebron.

Do you think Ball will be as good as Lebron as a professional?

No, because Lebron is so otherwordly as an athlete.

But I've never compared Lonzo to Lebron, I've only compared him to Magic and Bird and I think he compares favorably both athletically and defensively with those 2.

Hard to compare different eras. Magic came out at age 19 and did dominate NCAA from start to finish. Like Lavar his team had 2 other guys that were (or likely to be) first round picks too. Bird got dominated in the finals because he was a one man show and Michigan was loaded. Lavar got dominated by Aaron Fox but both teams were loaded. I don't think it is fair to compare Lavar to those guys. He just on a very different level.

To be fair, Magic at #1 that year was one of those epic draft picks that happen once a decade - like Shaq, Lebron, Anthony Davis - where everybody knows the guy is a lock to be a franchise stud. As good as this draft looks, I don't think there is a single guy in it that is a no question, sure fire superstar on that level.

[sam_I_am]

If Celtics get #2 pick and draft Ball and Lakers get Josh Jackson at #3..... would you entertain this trade?

Jaylen/Ball for Josh/Ingram.

Personally I think Jaylen showed me more than Ingram so I wouldn't .... but last year Ingram looked like a perfect fit for Brad's system and I think Josh has a more rounded offensve game than Jae and probably will be an even better defender.

[Moobydoo]

If Celtics get #2 pick and draft Ball and Lakers get Josh Jackson at #3..... would you entertain this trade?

Jaylen/Ball for Josh/Ingram.

Personally I think Jaylen showed me more than Ingram so I wouldn't .... but last year Ingram looked like a perfect fit for Brad's system and I think Josh has a more rounded offensve game than Jae and probably will be an even better defender.

No I would just draft Jackson.

[Murta]

Do you think Ball will be as good as Lebron as a professional?

No, because Lebron is so otherwordly as an athlete.

But I've never compared Lonzo to Lebron, I've only compared him to Magic and Bird and I think he compares favorably both athletically and defensively with those 2.

Hard to compare different eras. Magic came out at age 19 and did dominate NCAA from start to finish. Like Lavar his team had 2 other guys that were (or likely to be) first round picks too. Bird got dominated in the finals because he was a one man show and Michigan was loaded. Lavar got dominated by Aaron Fox but both teams were loaded. I don't think it is fair to compare Lavar to those guys. He just on a very different level.

To be fair, Magic at #1 that year was one of those epic draft picks that happen once a decade - like Shaq, Lebron, Anthony Davis - where everybody knows the guy is a lock to be a franchise stud. As good as this draft looks, I don't think there is a single guy in it that is a no question, sure fire superstar on that level.

*Lonzo

[Gomes3PC]

If Celtics get #2 pick and draft Ball and Lakers get Josh Jackson at #3..... would you entertain this trade?

Jaylen/Ball for Josh/Ingram.

Personally I think Jaylen showed me more than Ingram so I wouldn't .... but last year Ingram looked like a perfect fit for Brad's system and I think Josh has a more rounded offensve game than Jae and probably will be an even better defender.

No. Jaylen is getting key defensive assignments against a borderline All-NBA player in the playoffs. Brandon Ingram is at home drinking a protein shake.

I know that's not Ingram's fault, derp. I am just saying that people are underestimating the progress Jaylen has made this year. He's proven his outside shot can translate to the NBA, and he's flashed elite defensive potential. Even if he never becomes more than a 15 PPG scorer, you're basically talking about a rich man's Jae Crowder, which is a fantastic player to have under control for half a decade.

[Homerclease]

Very disappointed that Jackson, Ball and Tatum are skipping the combine. Fultz is going and he's only 1 of 3 projected top 10 picks that are going

[Grahf]

Read on Twitter

Fultz rt'd this. Seems pretty clear that we are his number one choice.